Members leaving

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I would have to say that after reading Mr. Duff's comments on Lan leaving the 
group I too would not wish to be affiliated with a group that would have Mr. 
Duff as a member.

His comments went beyond good taste (i.e. "Too bad Lan's prozac ran out"), 
his psychology banal, and his opinions certainly don't represent me or my 
feelings.

I am saddened by Lan's departure.  My recommendation would be that Mr. Duff 
seriously reconsider his boorish actions.   While he may passionately feel he 
is correct in his opinions he may consider that there are better ways to 
disagree and express views than to attack someone's character so 
vitriolically in a public forum.

My suggestion would be that the moderator not post patently inappropriate 
material, have some clear guidelines regarding what is and not appropriate, 
and ask members to respond to how they would like the forum to operate.  
Certainly, there should be no need for a "Jazz Guitar Nazi" in a forum such 
as this.  Hopefully, responses such as this will help set the tone.

There are many opportunities on this forum to develop a special "on line 
community."  As a human being first and a jazz guitarist second I am saddened 
by the attacks, I am saddened that Jimmy Bruno was treated so disrespectfully 
and we will not have his input.  If it was my vote I would much prefer to 
speak with Lan and Jimmy than than Mr. Duff.  

Lets see, I am in a jazz guitar forum, who would I like to interact with?  
Jimmy Bruno or Mr. Duff.  Hmmm.  

David Rudick

#3456

don't really buy that one i'm afraid. maybe zeeks sense of humour was a
little too pointed for your taste but thats about all you can say about it,
there was nothing particuarly offensive in there from what i read. he has
also been a significant contributor to the list for a while with usually
pretty insightful and useful info.

also his opinion is just as valid as anyone else, and the fact that he
decided to call jimmy on what he saw as some b.s should be commended i
think. jimmy is a great player but doesn't walk on water and if someone
doesn't agree with him they should be allowed to mention it. personal
attacks are obviously a bad idea but i didn't see anything personal in zeeks
posts.

as far as whose inputs i would prefer, just because someone is a famous jazz
player doesn't mean they have more interesting input. my experience is quite
the opposite as the famous guy has already focused on "his" way and is less
likely to discuss other things. i happen to completely disagree with jimmys
"theres just 5 scales" approach. i was at a workshop of his and when i
quizzed him on it didn't get anything that was strong enough to make me
change my mind. i even bought his book to investigate it further but still
wasn't convinced. i'm not saying he's wrong but it just doesn't work for me.
i bought the john scofield video and its pretty clear that jimmys approach
doesn't work for sco either..

anyway, my recommendation would be that certain folks on the list maybe try
to take things (and maybe even themselves) less seriously and we'll be
better off for it..

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
  From: sribeme@... [mailto:sribeme@...]
  Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 11:15 PM
  To: jazz_guitar@...
  Subject: Re: [jazz_guitar] Members leaving

  I would have to say that after reading Mr. Duff's comments on Lan leaving
the
  group I too would not wish to be affiliated with a group that would have
Mr.
  Duff as a member.

  His comments went beyond good taste (i.e. "Too bad Lan's prozac ran out"),
  his psychology banal, and his opinions certainly don't represent me or my
  feelings.

  I am saddened by Lan's departure.  My recommendation would be that Mr.
Duff
  seriously reconsider his boorish actions.   While he may passionately feel
he
  is correct in his opinions he may consider that there are better ways to
  disagree and express views than to attack someone's character so
  vitriolically in a public forum.

  My suggestion would be that the moderator not post patently inappropriate
  material, have some clear guidelines regarding what is and not
appropriate,
  and ask members to respond to how they would like the forum to operate.
  Certainly, there should be no need for a "Jazz Guitar Nazi" in a forum
such
  as this.  Hopefully, responses such as this will help set the tone.

  There are many opportunities on this forum to develop a special "on line
  community."  As a human being first and a jazz guitarist second I am
saddened
  by the attacks, I am saddened that Jimmy Bruno was treated so
disrespectfully
  and we will not have his input.  If it was my vote I would much prefer to
  speak with Lan and Jimmy than than Mr. Duff.

  Lets see, I am in a jazz guitar forum, who would I like to interact with?
  Jimmy Bruno or Mr. Duff.  Hmmm.

  David Rudick

#3454

I would disagree with your comment on Mr. Duff - and you can see how 
even this mild disagreement, as it involves a person, can easily spin 
out of control. By and large, I'm sure all of us are civilized human 
beings. It's largely an artifact of this medium, I suspect, and as 
far as I'm concerned, an "occupational hazard" of newsgroups.

I would agree with you on perhaps having some clear guidelines set 
forth by the moderator (or members). I had some part in this whole 
fiasco which on my part was precipitated by a commercial enterprise 
posting here - that would not be tolerated on public newgroups (it's 
different if you or I choose to post a testamonial to some product). 
I did look around here for guidelines and perhaps I just missed them 
so maybe someone can point them out. 

Discussions on whether <X> is a horrible player or a great player 
don't really interest me, and I'm ticked off at myself for getting 
sucked into it at all. Let's get back to some more interesting topics.

-Jim


--- In jazz_guitar@y..., sribeme@a... wrote:
I would have to say that after reading Mr. Duff's comments on Lan leaving the 
group I too would not wish to be affiliated with a group that would have Mr. 
Duff as a member.

His comments went beyond good taste (i.e. "Too bad Lan's prozac ran out"), 
his psychology banal, and his opinions certainly don't represent me or my 
feelings.

I am saddened by Lan's departure.  My recommendation would be that Mr. Duff 
seriously reconsider his boorish actions.   While he may passionately feel he 
is correct in his opinions he may consider that there are better ways to 
disagree and express views than to attack someone's character so 
vitriolically in a public forum.

My suggestion would be that the moderator not post patently inappropriate 
material, have some clear guidelines regarding what is and not appropriate, 
and ask members to respond to how they would like the forum to operate.  
Certainly, there should be no need for a "Jazz Guitar Nazi" in a forum such 
as this.  Hopefully, responses such as this will help set the tone.

There are many opportunities on this forum to develop a special "on line 
community."  As a human being first and a jazz guitarist second I am saddened 
by the attacks, I am saddened that Jimmy Bruno was treated so disrespectfully 
and we will not have his input.  If it was my vote I would much prefer to 
speak with Lan and Jimmy than than Mr. Duff.  

Lets see, I am in a jazz guitar forum, who would I like to interact with?  
Jimmy Bruno or Mr. Duff.  Hmmm.  

David Rudick 
   

#3461

I was on vacation for 2 weeks and I see that somehow in that time 
people managed to get Jimmy Bruno on the list and then drive him away.

It's kind of pathetic that we get one of the greatest players around 
on the list and all people can do is abuse him.

-Dan

Zeek Duff

#3471

--- In jazz_guitar@y..., dan@d... wrote:
I was on vacation for 2 weeks and I see that somehow in that time 
people managed to get Jimmy Bruno on the list and then drive him away.

It's kind of pathetic that we get one of the greatest players around 
on the list and all people can do is abuse him.Actually, Jimmy is still here.  The misunderstanding has been cleared
up, and while a couple of folks became impatient with the
clarification process, I can  assure you from personal knowledge 
that Jimmy isn't upset with anyone and is still very much interested 
in what goes on here.  :)  As he told me, he isn't a fast typist and
he sometimes has a bit of a time putting things  into words, so 
he couldn't see he was accomplishing anything by pursuing the one 
subject.  However, others have and on his behalf, I'll state that
Jimmy has been a real gentleman to me.  As you'll see by posts 
prior to this, we've all moved on to new ground.

Regards,
...z

[email protected]

#3472

I think what we are all missing is the fact we don't know who is out
there reading. Great artist like Mr. Bruno may never post again, we
will miss out on some wonderful insights. Are we sure Pat Metheny or 
Chuck Loeb or John Pizzarelli aren't members, and they never post, 
it's possible. What great bits of information we could get from
them too. But, would they want to post after seeing the way Mr.
Bruno was treated, food for thought.
ES175guy

#3475

I can assure you that there are many leading players 
in the group. Some choose to post, most remain anonymous
and just lurk, often subscribing to the digest. Often
the decision to remain anonymous is to prevent a barrage
of email heading their way and also their (understandable?)
fear of being misunderstood/misquoted. Jimmy B and a few
others take the risk and stick their neck out, which is
great!

As I have said before, be aware that what you are saying is
being read by a very wide audience!

It's good that the debacle over Jimmy and Pat is now
clearing up, Zeek did some great "misunderstanding control",
for which I think we are all grateful. 

Alisdair MacRae Birch
Jazz Guitarist


--- In jazz_guitar@y..., v.ingle@a... wrote:
I think what we are all missing is the fact we don't know who is out
there reading. Great artist like Mr. Bruno may never post again, we
will miss out on some wonderful insights. Are we sure Pat Metheny or 
Chuck Loeb or John Pizzarelli aren't members, and they never post, 
it's possible. What great bits of information we could get from
them too. But, would they want to post after seeing the way Mr.
Bruno was treated, food for thought.
ES175guy

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Members leaving