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[jazzguitar] Re: Pat Martino


Don V Price
 

I don't think it's BS; rather, it's a subjective view of self-expression.
That is, after all, what the beginner needs to know -up front. Yes,
they need to know that there's no magic bullet. However, the real
problem isn't with the players who do these instructional videos, books,
etc. Conversely, the problem is a mis-application of availble
information. A great Source for inspiration (like Pat is many of us) is
not to blame; Players may not always be able to inform the piblic of what
it is exactly they are doing in order to please so many listeners. So
the "schooled" types come in and want to get these players to "share"
their knowledge and experience -which, in and of itself, is a noble
gesture. What usually takes shape however -and has with several of the
"greats"- is that someone else assumes the role of getting that talent
to place everything he or she knows intutively into an externalized
"systematic approach method" or some such other incapsulating and
restrictive form in order to "proove" that others too may play as they
do.

Of course, there is absolutely nothing bad about honest learning from
others work. We all "cop licks" from other players whom we admire. You
point is well taken that nothing can substitute for hard work, active
playing experience, and a good "ear" for tunes. The only thing you fail
to mention is exactly HOW may we help one another in this learning
process -irrespective of our experience level. As a teacher, I must
recognize that the learning curve is not a constant; many learn best
visually, others by ear, while for others the best thing is "hands on"
first, explanations second. They all must combine to create the total
musical experience.


On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:51:55 EDT JHoopes930@... writes:
It really kills me the way some of you people are looking for the
magic
secret something
that suddenly turns you into a great jazz soloist. I've got news
for
you....IT DON"T
EXIST. Years ago Martino was talking about a star system he used.
Now he's
talking
about thinking dimished chords when he solos. It was BS then and it
still
is. Pat
Martino is a great guitar player blessed with a wonderful ear,
supurb
technique and the
talent to put them together. There are many talented players out
there doing
the same
thing. It's that simple.

Flip
.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Sincerely,
Don Price




___________________________________________________________________
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Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
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Fareed Haque
 

Don V Price wrote:

I don't think it's BS; rather, it's a subjective view of self-expression.
That is, after all, what the beginner needs to know -up front. Yes,
they need to know that there's no magic bullet. However, the real
problem isn't with the players who do these instructional videos, books,
etc. Conversely, the problem is a mis-application of availble
information. A great Source for inspiration (like Pat is many of us) is
not to blame; Players may not always be able to inform the piblic of what
it is exactly they are doing in order to please so many listeners. So
the "schooled" types come in and want to get these players to "share"
their knowledge and experience -which, in and of itself, is a noble
gesture. What usually takes shape however -and has with several of the
"greats"- is that someone else assumes the role of getting that talent
to place everything he or she knows intutively into an externalized
"systematic approach method" or some such other incapsulating and
restrictive form in order to "proove" that others too may play as they
do.

Of course, there is absolutely nothing bad about honest learning from
others work. We all "cop licks" from other players whom we admire. You
point is well taken that nothing can substitute for hard work, active
playing experience, and a good "ear" for tunes. The only thing you fail
to mention is exactly HOW may we help one another in this learning
process -irrespective of our experience level. As a teacher, I must
recognize that the learning curve is not a constant; many learn best
visually, others by ear, while for others the best thing is "hands on"
first, explanations second. They all must combine to create the total
musical experience.

On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:51:55 EDT JHoopes930@... writes:
It really kills me the way some of you people are looking for the
magic
secret something
that suddenly turns you into a great jazz soloist. I've got news
for
you....IT DON"T
EXIST. Years ago Martino was talking about a star system he used.
Now he's
talking
about thinking dimished chords when he solos. It was BS then and it
still
is. Pat
Martino is a great guitar player blessed with a wonderful ear,
supurb
technique and the
talent to put them together. There are many talented players out
there doing
the same
thing. It's that simple.

Flip
.

------------------------------------------------------------------------> > Was the salesman clueless?
Productopia has the answers.




eGroups.com home:
- Simplifying group communications



Sincerely,
Don Price




___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web:

------------------------------------------------------------------------>
eGroups.com home:
- Simplifying group communications
Oh wow I have to get my two cents worth in RE Pat Martino. The idea of
'converting to minor' is a very practical one. Lines over minor chords
sound beautiful....Pat simply moves those m7 lines around so that he can
play them over any type of chord, be it m7, Dom 7, Dom 7 altered, Major
7, 1/2 diminished [m7b5] or fully diminished. Any of the types of harmony
above can be related to a minor chord...sometimes more than one minor
chord. So simply take your minor chord lick, play it over the related
minor chord and then see how it sounds against the original harmony. It
should sound really cool. Most of the time it does.
Here is an example . Take a nice minor 7 lick and play it in Bb minor.
Now Bb minor is almost like A7 altered [ Bb Db F is the b9,3rd and b13 of
A7 alt.] SO now play the lick over A7 altered....
Try the same Bbm lick over G 1/2 dim, DbMaj7, GbMaj7, Eb7,A7 alt,C7
alt.,Gb7 alt. If you don't understand why these chords all relate to Bb
minor, then just compare the notes in the chords and see how many notes
they have in common. And that's it. fh