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CD sales vs pirate downloads.
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Will
It is reported this week that Susan Boyle has sold some
10m albums worldwide. Is seems that pirate download sites have had no affect on her sales. Rod Stewart has had similar reported success. This vindicates the view (for me,) that the people who buy CDs are not interested in downloading from pirate sites and that the teenagers who share pirated songs have very little actual interest in the music. I have spoken to many teenagers who have got 1Gig`s worth of music on their ipod - when I point out that it would take 2 years to listen to everything they have they explain that it is not about the music but scoring points as to who can share the most. These people would never buy a CD anyway. Will |
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On 11/19/2010 4:57 AM, Will wrote:
when I point out that it would takeYour point? I really hope you're not saying that this is why we shouldn't worry about lost sales due to the Internet. best, Bobby |
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Will
My point - misdirection.
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If a stranger taps you on the shoulder they could easily be stealing your wallet with the other hand. The "lost" sales due to file sharing are heavily focussed on by the major labels through the media. This diversion calls attention away from the fact that the major labels haven`t produced many new songs/tunes worth buying for a long time. Their loss of sales is due simply to the fact that many people have lost interest in "music" that sounds much the same as everything else published. All the majors selling CDs are re-hashes of old songs. These CDs sell in millions and are completely unaffected by piracy. When the labels produce songs as good as the old Motown or the Atlantic back catalogue then their complaints will be worth considering - right now the shelves are bare. Will
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--- In jazz_guitar@..., "Will" <will@...> wrote:
I do not think you can draw that conclusion. Perhaps they would have sold more if there was no illegal downloading. This vindicates the view (for me,) that the people whoIt is not just teenagers. Have you ever used bittorrent, limewire, bearshare, kazaa, azureus, emule, rapishare, filesonic and seen what is on these networks? Mark |
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Will
Perhaps they would have sold a few more bit it seems they have done
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pretty well so far. If sales were as badly affected as it is claimed then I doubt if 10m units would have been sold - these are numbers approaching 1960s album sales. I am not familiar with the file sharing networks you mention but do not doubt that that certain people have uploaded every music type in the world - that doesn`t mean that it has affected sales significantly more then cassette taping did over the last 30 yrs. I knew an entertainer who worked in Greece and regularly came home with loads of illegal cassettes marketed openly in their shops. Will I do not think you can draw that conclusion. |
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--- In jazz_guitar@..., "Will" <will@...> wrote:
Will, I have to admit to being completely confused as to where you are coming from. Susan Boyle CD sales are a direct result of mass media marketing and corporate record company backing. Simon Cowell's Syco TV produced the show she was discovered on and signed her to his music entertainment company, Syco Music. Syco Music which operates under the Sony/Columbia records banner then marketed, produced and controlled everything about her. Simon Cowell has publicly stated that he believes that piracy has had a direct impact on the number of sales and vowed to prosecute those who pirate "his" companies material, particularly after the Leona Lewis pirating fiasco. Simon Cowell, his team and the record company execs who propelled Susan Boyle's success are staunch and financial supporters of the RIAA and advocate enforcement of copyright and tighter controls. Simon Cowell's team strategically decided the timing of CD releases and official download releases on digital rights management sites such as iTunes. Simon Cowell sign letter urging MPs to act on net piracy YouTube has been ordered to remove links to unreleased Leona Lewis songs by anti-piracy officials working with Simon Cowell. Leona Lewis becomes victim of computer hackers as three new tracks are leaked on internet What I think is interesting is to ask is... Could Susan Boyle have been as successful if she worked independently promoting, blogging, social networking, mailing, marketing her own material? -- Alisdair MacRae Birch Guitarist/Bassist/Educator/Arranger |
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Will
Alisdair,
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I am aware that Susan Boyle is the centre of mass marketing, just like quite a few other artistes. She would not have got anywhere without the backing she had - she is just perfect for re-hashing well worn songs; so much easier than supporting creative genuine writing talents. I am not advocating piracy and I realise it has some effect but do not think it affects mainstream sales as much as is claimed. When The Beatles released the "Number Ones" CD a few years ago it instantly went global and pushed McCartney into Billionaire status. These are tracks that have been published in various forms dozens of times and it was before the current clampdown on file sharing. The mass availability of Beatles material via the net didn`t prevent huge sales. My point is that music sales have dropped every year since the 1960`s peak - simply because people are not anywhere near as interested in current music. Will Will, I have to admit to being completely confused as to where you are coming from. |
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Will
When did MGM last publish a really great original song?
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A song that will become a standard and remembered for generations? Will
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I am not advocating piracy and I realise it has some effectYes, you are, and every argument you present supports this. Odd to me is how many recording studios take your stand as well. When artists finally figure out that they can no longer afford to invest in a recording project destined to make no money, who exactly is it that they think will support them? Bobby |
The mass availability of Beatles materialYou know this how? Can you tell us for a certainty how many people would have, but didn't, buy the collection because they were able to download it for free? Will, you are a great guy, so my singleing you out may seem unfair, but I've heard these arguments far too often for far too long. If the cabbie forgets to start the meter, it's for certain that folks will ride for free, and it's just that simple. best, Bobby |
...Many people opposed to the bill agree in principle with its aims: Illegal music piracy is, well, illegal, and should be stopped. Musicians, artists and content creators should be compensated for their work. But the laws critics do not believe that giving the federal government the right to shut down websites at will based upon a vague and arbitrary standard of evidence, even if no law-breaking has been proved, is a particularly good idea....This is exactly what happens in every other form of publishing and distribution. Why would it be a "not particularly good idea" to apply it to the Internet as well? If the Internet pirates (Google, &c - you know - paupers every one) have their way, the musicians will die broke long before the issue is dealt with. Bobby |
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Will
Bobby,
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You are missing my point. Major labels are not making the money they used to quite simply because they do not publish music that people are interested in listening to. Rather than investing in writing talent they blame piracy and keep re-hashing old standards that have been recorded a 1000 times. There are no Holland¨CDozier¨CHolland, no Lennon/McCartney or Goffin-King writing teams any more. Creative artistes need room to breath and develop but this does not fit into current business plans for a quick return. When I was in the industry in the 1980s a top ten UK entry could be achieved with just 3000 sales - back in the 1960s it took 20 times that. File sharing wasn`t around in the 1980s so that can`t be blamed for sales loss. Will I am not advocating piracy and I realise it has some effectYes, you are, and every argument you present supports this. |
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Hi Will,
You are missing my point.While this is certainly worth discussion, it is neither applicable nor correct in the assessment of the current situation. To assume that the state of the music business is caused by either a lack of talent or a lack of development of talent by the record companies is just not true at all. In fact, to assume that there are no good writers around is not correct either. To take it out of the music business, here's an example for you. The N.Y. Times was the first newspaper to publish on the Web for free, feeling that information should be free on the Web. Just about every newspaper followed their example, and just about every newspaper, including the N.Y. Times is now going belly-up. Trust me - I get your point. I just don't agree with it at all. Bobby |
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Will
Bobby,
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Then we will have to agree to differ. Will
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I haven't been following this thread too much, but I don't think the
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reasons labels aren't making "the money they used to" is any part of the reason, really. Rap/Pop artists still make lots of money if they are able to break through; problem is that the playlists of most radio stations are super-narrow. It's so stupid to turn on a "classic rock" station, and hear the same old songs in rotation, instead of a greater variety. The market has changed a lot as well, we now have iTunes, the 'net, satellite radio, etc, but they're mostly playing the same ol' crap. People in general aren't interested in "music", and now with technological advances, it's even easier to "share" music. I believe that has indeed had an effect on "major labels", what are there now, 3 of them? In much the way it has happened in other types of businesses, consolidation and shrinkage have also narrowed the scope of the market in music. Someone like George Avakian, or Teo Macero, et at, wouldn't have a job in this day & age, as A&R is pretty much nonexistent... I think it's about time the market/law is updated to cover musicians' and composers' rights. And I do think piracy has indeed had a major effect in the music marketplace. Cheers, JV Juan Vega In a message dated 11/19/2010 5:01:46 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
will@... writes: Major labels are not making the money they used to quite simply because they do not publish music that people are interested in listening to. Rather than investing in writing talent they blame piracy and keep re-hashing old standards that have been recorded a 1000 times. |
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Will
Bobby,
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Thank you, Will
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