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I was recently shown a new Gibson Les Paul Custom which was odd (to me) in that it had star shaped inlays and fret markers. I have never seen this before, and so was wondering if this might be a counterfeit.

Do any of you (Jeff???) know about this. Have you ever seen a Les Paul with star shaped fret markers?

thanks,
Bobby

Do any of you (Jeff???) know about this. Have you ever seen a Les Paul
with star shaped fret markers?

thanks,
Bobby


Bobby,
... never saw a Paul with "star" markers ... sounds like a fake ....







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Do any of you (Jeff???) know about this. Have you ever seen a Les Paul
with star shaped fret markers?

Did you get a serial #? If not, is this supposed to be a new guitar,
or is it old(er)?

I've never seen one with star shaped inlays, but maybe it was an
aftermarket job? Or, as you and John said, it could be a knock off.
But--the thing that makes me doubt that it's a counterfeit--is that
the really good counterfeiters (like in China, for instance) try to
make them as authentic looking as possible.

Wish I could help more.

Jeff

Thanks John,

... never saw a Paul with "star" markers ... sounds like a fake ....

I just went to the Gibson site, and although I saw a lot of disappointing and overly hyped instruments (am I getting old?), I didn't see any Les Pauls, Custom or otherwise, with star shaped markers.

best,
Bobby

On 12/2/2010 7:33 PM, Jeff Shirkey wrote:

the really good counterfeiters (like in China, for instance) try to
make them as authentic looking as possible.

Thanks Jeff,
The guitar did come from China, but it says "made in USA". Has the U.S. Patent Office become as lax as the Copyright Office?

Bobby

The guitar did come from China, but it says "made in USA". Has the
U.S.
Patent Office become as lax as the Copyright Office?

If it came from China, it's almost certainly a counterfeit.

Jeff

One thing I forgot to mention - it's red.

It's very well made, I'll give it that, although it could use a good set-up. And he didn't pay a lot for it. The whole thing is very suspicious to me.

Bobby

Ed Roman guitars maybe? He made some Les Paul like guitars with "star" inlays.




?



________________________________
From: Jeff Shirkey <jcshirke@...>
To: jazz_guitar@...
Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 7:43:05 PM
Subject: Re: [jazz_guitar] Les Paul Custom question

?

The guitar did come from China, but it says "made in USA". Has the
U.S.
Patent Office become as lax as the Copyright Office?

If it came from China, it's almost certainly a counterfeit.

Jeff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There is a company out of Peking that markets copies of various popular
models of Gibson(Les Paul, SG, 335, 175 etc) and Fender(Strat, Tele). They
are copied down to having serial #s and "made in USA" where it would
normally appear. They are not licensed or sanctioned by Gibson or Fender.
That's probably what you have.

I remember reading in the 1970s that a town in the
Far East was named with the initials USA so that
companies could legitimately put "Made in USA" on
the product.

Will

The extent of counterfeiting of guitars and other items in China is staggering. I was just shown a counterfeit Orville guitar, the brand marketed by Gibson in Japan, but not made for 10+ years. There are also Tokai counterfeits. One sure giveaway on the counterfeit guitars, is to look for a kerf joint in the neck a few inches below the nut. The pickups are terrible and they sound awful, but thanks to the use of CNC machines, they do bear a strong resemblance.

And be very careful of Sennheiser and Shure microphones. A raid instigated by Shure turned up 10,000 counterfeit mic's. Sennheiser, however has taken a strange stance. They do nothing to combat counterfeit products. The counterfeiters are able to get OEM original packaging, parts, etc. Sennheiser has even acknowledged that some of the counterfeits are made side-by-side at their Chinese subcontractors. Their attitude is If you don't buy new retail at authorized retailer, you get what you deserve.

Trojan condoms, Duracell batteries, Sennheiser headphones, counterfeiting in China is a huge enterprise.

On 12/3/2010 2:51 AM, Will wrote:

I remember reading in the 1970s that a town in the
Far East was named with the initials USA so that
companies could legitimately put "Made in USA" on
the product.

Not true, according to Snopes:



But I heard the rumor here, too. Until you mentioned it, I never questioned it. But then how exactly is a Chinese import able to claim "made in USA" to the U.S. Customs Department?

best,
Bobby

Bobby,

US Customs probably doesn't know (or care) that much about copyright
violations, I suspect. But, to answer your question, the same way that Congress
declares that a chicken at 28 degrees Fahrenheit is a "fresh" chicken; try
throwing one of those "fresh" chickens against a plate glass window...
It's all bs, or at least a lot of it is.

Cheers,
JV

Juan Vega

Fraud is fraud and I don't think they should try to fool people with
brand names. BUT...

Actually, they don't all sound awful at all. And every thing Gibson
makes isn't perfect either. I have a Les Paul copy from
rondomusic.com I paid 229.00 or something silly like that. I didn't
like the neck pickup as well as a real Les Paul in a side by side
comparison so I got a whole new set from Kurt at Rondo [that they use
in their `high end' 489.00 models] They sound great and cost 40 .
00... for the pair. I admit I was skeptical, but you plug it in to a
tube amp at even bedroom volume and you smile. Will it sound a little
better if I stick a Lollar high wind Imperial of course it will. I
costs almost as much as the guitar.

The Tokai was a Japanese knock off and their resale value is pretty
good. Both these companies are not claiming they are Gibsons. Or
trying to fool anyone. Solid body guitars are not rocket science tho
the big names would have you think so. Stick a pickup on a big enough
hunk of mahogany and you'll get a ton of sustain and that less paul
sound. I'm tempted to drill a hole in mine and see if they put a
quatrer inch sheet of lead in there. The quality control is pretty
spotty over there. The bridge on my copy had a saddle that didn't
seat properly. I called Kurt and he gave me a whole new one. It was
just dandy. And the tuners on my LP copy are every bit as good as
those on my 2k plus Eastman 910. But then, those are from China too.
Hell, maybe even the same factory. If they sound good and play good
who cares about brand loyalty. That is a very one sided love afair.

I don't need a certain name on a product to know if it is good or
not. No more than I need a radio station playing a tune over and over
to know if it's a good to listen or not. Would I like to have a
Gibson Super V or 400? Sure I would. If it sounds as good as the one
Bireli plays.

Ron
Living and playing outside the box.



On Dec 3, 2010, at 12:40 PM, tofu_devil wrote:

The extent of counterfeiting of guitars and other items in China is
staggering. I was just shown a counterfeit Orville guitar, the
brand marketed by Gibson in Japan, but not made for 10+ years.
There are also Tokai counterfeits. One sure giveaway on the
counterfeit guitars, is to look for a kerf joint in the neck a few
inches below the nut. The pickups are terrible and they sound
awful, but thanks to the use of CNC machines, they do bear a strong
resemblance.

And be very careful of Sennheiser and Shure microphones. A raid
instigated by Shure turned up 10,000 counterfeit mic's. Sennheiser,
however has taken a strange stance. They do nothing to combat
counterfeit products. The counterfeiters are able to get OEM
original packaging, parts, etc. Sennheiser has even acknowledged
that some of the counterfeits are made side-by-side at their
Chinese subcontractors. Their attitude is If you don't buy new
retail at authorized retailer, you get what you deserve.

Trojan condoms, Duracell batteries, Sennheiser headphones,
counterfeiting in China is a huge enterprise.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 12/4/2010 12:43 PM, Ron Becker wrote:

Would I like to have a
Gibson Super V or 400? Sure I would. If it sounds as good as the one
Bireli plays.

It probably will, provided that you can play as good as Bireli.

best,
Bobby

On Dec 4, 2010, at 3:06 PM, Bob Hansmann wrote:

On 12/4/2010 12:43 PM, Ron Becker wrote:

Would I like to have a
Gibson Super V or 400? Sure I would. If it sounds as good as the one
Bireli plays.

It probably will, provided that you can play as good as Bireli.

Hey Amigo, at the rate I'm progressing.... not much danger of that.
But hey last nite after our set I got a 5 dollar tip from a guitar
player who works all the time. Of course that doesn't mean the same
thing as a guitar player in NYC who plays all the time. But hey this
is a pretty small pond. With a lot of bass in the voice... deep tho.

Ron
Living and playing outside the box.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Ron,

Hey Amigo, at the rate I'm progressing.... not much danger of that.
But hey last nite after our set I got a 5 dollar tip from a guitar
player who works all the time.

Maybe he thought you'd use it to take some lessons...
(just kidding, my friend ;-) )

More seriously:

Of course that doesn't mean the same
thing as a guitar player in NYC who plays all the time.

Check out this article, from the N.Y. Times:



best,
Bobby