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I hope I can get some new ideas here - I have recently began playing with a good 6 piece combo - two saxes, clarinet, upright bass, drums and me on guitar. I am getting the calls because I can solo, the other guy that they were using only plays rhythm. 80% of the time I am playing rhythm also, just supporting the horns,. but sometimes I am called on to solo. Most of the tunes I know pretty well, (Real Book) but I am not too familiar with some of them. Solos can get pretty weak when you lose your place! I am probably going to practice this week on soloing without taking my eyes off of the chart, if I can keep track of the changes I can at least play SOMETHING.
Of course having the tunes down stone cold is the ultimate answer, but are there
any suggestions for faking it till then???

Steve

"How To Learn Tunes" by David Baker (Aebersold Jazz)...has
been mentioned before, but like my CostaRican broads....
it's a real sleeper!!
-Grandaddy Mike

--- In jazz_guitar@y..., "Steve Gorman" <gorman@g...> wrote:

I hope I can get some new ideas here - I have recently began

playing with a good 6 piece combo - two saxes, clarinet, upright
bass, drums and me on guitar. I am getting the calls because I can
solo, the other guy that they were using only plays rhythm. 80% of
the time I am playing rhythm also, just supporting the horns,. but
sometimes I am called on to solo. Most of the tunes I know pretty
well, (Real Book) but I am not too familiar with some of them. Solos
can get pretty weak when you lose your place! I am probably going
to practice this week on soloing without taking my eyes off of the
chart, if I can keep track of the changes I can at least play
SOMETHING.

Of course having the tunes down stone cold is the ultimate answer,

but are there

any suggestions for faking it till then???

Steve, only a couple of good'ns I can think of off the top of my
head.

1) "The blues. Play the blues, it works over everything."
(Dr. Walter Becker)

2) Try a diminished whole tone scale, maybe a half step off the key
root, either direction. Bound to be some right notes in there
somewhere, but might be a tad "outside." :)

Regards,
...z


If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried...

-- =---Seek the truth, speak the truth!---= --

L.G. "Zeek" Duff
WHAT!Productions!
Blue Wall Studio
303.485.9438
ICQ#35974686

Steve, One suggestion I would make as far as surviving a solo over a tune you
don't know is to get the big picture. By this I mean don't get hung up trying
to hit every change. As you're comping, (or if you have a chance to glance
at it beforehand) try to get a sense of the form of the tune and what the key
(as in important) chords are. Much of the time those will be chords functioning
as either the "I" or "V" of whatever key you're in at that point in the tune.
Try to come up with a simplified overview of the tune. Then, when you solo,
focus on playing over and connecting those few important chords. And always
keep in mind where the tune is heading next. Don't worry about about all
those chords you're leaving out. You can always work on the tune at home and
add them to your solo next time. {This technique also works good if you
know the tune but the band is just playing the thing to fast for comfort}
Another suggestion: you can always try a comp(chord) solo. Sometimes
that's an easier way to get through a tune you don't know.

Later,
Brad R

Steve Gorman wrote:

Great advice, Brad. I also have this problem sometimes on tunes where
someone decides to play it "uptempo". Another way to state it is to
determine the basic tonality and not stray too far, but to find just
a note or two that will reflect the changes. So for example, if a
tune is mostly in C and goes to A7, instead of thinking A7, I might
look at it as playing in C, but changing the C to a C#. Of course,
you can always play the blues (can get old after a chorus, though),
or work on some all-purpose pentatonics. Another approach is to take
the existing melody (assuming that you know it or can read it), and
play the same notes but backwards, in different rhythms, etc. - with
a little practice, your solo will sound a lot like the original tune,
but different.

I am curious about your comment on using a chord solo. I'm at the
point where I can play a lot of heads as a chord melody, and can solo
in single notes, but I'm still having a tough time doing an
improvised "chord solo". I've sort of been easing into this trying to
use a "shout chorus" idea, and I'm actually sort of excited that it's
forcing me to think about my single note lines in a more melodic way
instead of running arpeggios, scales, etc. But any ideas you have on
this would be appreciated.

-Jim

--- In jazz_guitar@y..., Brad Rabuchin <bradrabuchin@e...> wrote:

Steve, One suggestion I would make as far as surviving a solo over

a tune you

don't know is to get the big picture. By this I mean don't get hung

up trying

to hit every change. As you're comping, (or if you have a chance

to glance

at it beforehand) try to get a sense of the form of the tune and

what the key

(as in important) chords are. Much of the time those will be chords

functioning

as either the "I" or "V" of whatever key you're in at that point in

the tune.

Try to come up with a simplified overview of the tune. Then, when

you solo,

focus on playing over and connecting those few important chords.

And always

keep in mind where the tune is heading next. Don't worry about

about all

those chords you're leaving out. You can always work on the tune at

home and

add them to your solo next time. {This technique also works good

if you

know the tune but the band is just playing the thing to fast for

comfort}

Another suggestion: you can always try a comp(chord) solo.

Sometimes

that's an easier way to get through a tune you don't know.

Later,
Brad R

Steve Gorman wrote:

I hope I can get some new ideas here - I have recently began

playing with a good 6 piece combo - two saxes, clarinet, upright
bass, drums and me on guitar. I am getting the calls because I can
solo, the other guy that they were using only plays rhythm. 80% of
the time I am playing rhythm also, just supporting the horns,. but
sometimes I am called on to solo. Most of the tunes I know pretty
well, (Real Book) but I am not too familiar with some of them. Solos
can get pretty weak when you lose your place! I am probably going
to practice this week on soloing without taking my eyes off of the
chart, if I can keep track of the changes I can at least play
SOMETHING.

Of course having the tunes down stone cold is the ultimate

answer, but are there

any suggestions for faking it till then???

Steve

Hi Jim,
Your ideas also work just fine. No matter how good you get you're gonna
occasionally find yourself in situations where you have to get through a tune
that because of its tempo, harmonic complexity or unfamiliarity is somewhere
at (or beyond)the edge of your ability. In those types of situations
anything you can do to simplify the harmonic landscape can be the difference
between survival or crashing and burning.

As far as improvised chord soloing, to get into something alittle more
advanced then I was suggesting in my last post, here's a couple of
suggestions to get started:
A month or 2 back someone here made the excellent suggestion of practicing
tunes acappella(solo) using various techniques, for example: a chorus of
comping, of comping with walking bass, one with melody or chord melody, one
or more with with single line soloing etc...(I practice this way all the
time). Anyway, try this: play a tune through in time with as much as you can
of a improvised chord solo. then stop and work on any areas that are
particularly lame. Then try it again in time etc...
Try using some of these ideas:

Hold down 2 or 3 chord tones(3rds and 7ths are a good place to start) and

play a few single notes over them.{Lenny Breau)

Find little groups of chords from the same family that work together, learn

them, and use them together as a group(the same way you might use a scale
position)(Pass)

Hold a common note while changing through several voicings.(Mike Stern)
Let an open string ring as a pedal while moving 2 or 3 note chords

vertically on the neck.(Metheny, Ralph Towner)
Hope this helps alittle.
Brad

kangas@... wrote:

Great advice, Brad. I also have this problem sometimes on tunes where
someone decides to play it "uptempo". Another way to state it is to
determine the basic tonality and not stray too far, but to find just
a note or two that will reflect the changes. So for example, if a
tune is mostly in C and goes to A7, instead of thinking A7, I might
look at it as playing in C, but changing the C to a C#. Of course,
you can always play the blues (can get old after a chorus, though),
or work on some all-purpose pentatonics. Another approach is to take
the existing melody (assuming that you know it or can read it), and
play the same notes but backwards, in different rhythms, etc. - with
a little practice, your solo will sound a lot like the original tune,
but different.

I am curious about your comment on using a chord solo. I'm at the
point where I can play a lot of heads as a chord melody, and can solo
in single notes, but I'm still having a tough time doing an
improvised "chord solo". I've sort of been easing into this trying to
use a "shout chorus" idea, and I'm actually sort of excited that it's
forcing me to think about my single note lines in a more melodic way
instead of running arpeggios, scales, etc. But any ideas you have on
this would be appreciated.

-Jim

This sounds like an interesting idea, but I'm not sure what it means
exactly. Could you give an example?

Thanks

Find little groups of chords from the same family that work together,

learn them, and use them together as a group > (the same way you might use a
scale position)(Pass)

Jeff, by that I mean just finding several chords of the same family, and in the
same general area on the neck, and using them to solo(or comp) the same as you
would a scale position. The parallel is this: when most people play a single
line solo I don't believe they're aware of the individual note names or
functions. They may try to connect particular chord tones within the scale(3rds,
7ths), head for a 9th or 13th or whatever, but its' unrealistic to expect your
mind to keep track of every single note as it goes by(and also play melodically?
-forget about it).
Anyway, I'm just saying treat a group of chords the same way. For example:, take
this group of Cmajor type chords:
Cmaj7 on the 5th fret: G on 4th st, C on 3rd st, E on the 2nd & B on the 1st
C6/9 on the 2nd fret: E on the 4th, A on the 3rd, D on the 2nd & G on the 1st
CMaj7 on the 3rd fret: C on 5th, G on 4rd, B on 3nd & E on 2nd
CMaj9 on the 2nd fret: C on the 5th, E on 4th, B on 3rd and D on 2nd.

Try playing them in different combinations and rhythms and mess around with
changing individual notes within the chords. For example, on the first 2 chords
let the chord ring while changing the top note to an "A".
And start adding other chords like this next one:
C Maj13#11 on the 4th fret: F# on the 4th, B on the 3rd, E on the 2nd & A on
the 1st.


"Hackett, Jeff" wrote:

I'd add that for that "C major group", you can also use diatonic
substitutions Em7 and Am7 and variations on those as well, since they
retain the "C major sound".

I've heard it said that Joe Pass used a lot of drop-2 voicings in his
chord stuff. Can anyone elaborate on this a bit? I know what drop-2
voicings are - just wondering if he's playing those scales harmonized
in that way, or some particular "groups" as Brad has suggested.
Thanks.

-Jim


--- In jazz_guitar@y..., Brad Rabuchin <bradrabuchin@e...> wrote:

Jeff, by that I mean just finding several chords of the same

family, and in the

same general area on the neck, and using them to solo(or comp) the

same as you

would a scale position. The parallel is this: when most people play

a single

line solo I don't believe they're aware of the individual note

names or

functions. They may try to connect particular chord tones within

the scale(3rds,

7ths), head for a 9th or 13th or whatever, but its' unrealistic to

expect your

mind to keep track of every single note as it goes by(and also play

melodically?

-forget about it).
Anyway, I'm just saying treat a group of chords the same way. For

example:, take

this group of Cmajor type chords:
Cmaj7 on the 5th fret: G on 4th st, C on 3rd st, E on the 2nd & B

on the 1st

C6/9 on the 2nd fret: E on the 4th, A on the 3rd, D on the 2nd & G

on the 1st

CMaj7 on the 3rd fret: C on 5th, G on 4rd, B on 3nd & E on 2nd
CMaj9 on the 2nd fret: C on the 5th, E on 4th, B on 3rd and D on

2nd.

Try playing them in different combinations and rhythms and mess

around with

changing individual notes within the chords. For example, on the

first 2 chords

let the chord ring while changing the top note to an "A".
And start adding other chords like this next one:
C Maj13#11 on the 4th fret: F# on the 4th, B on the 3rd, E on the

2nd & A on

the 1st.


"Hackett, Jeff" wrote:

This sounds like an interesting idea, but I'm not sure what it

means

exactly. Could you give an example?

Thanks

Find little groups of chords from the same family that work

together,

learn them, and use them together as a group > (the same way you

might use a

scale position)(Pass)

--- In jazz_guitar@y..., "Steve Gorman" <gorman@g...> wrote:

I am probably going to practice this week on soloing without taking

my eyes off of the chart, if I can keep track of the changes I can
at least play SOMETHING.

Of course having the tunes down stone cold is the ultimate answer,

but are there

any suggestions for faking it till then???

What works for me is to know the head. Be able to sing a stripped-
down version of the head without all the twiddly bits so that you
know the overall geography of the tune. Start the solo with a couple
of bars of the head and then start to bend the tune. Play outside
and around, syncopate, ellide, sequence, whatever, but build the
tension. Build towards the climax of the solo, really start to hurt
the tune or just go off into a parallel universe for a while. Then
resolve back to the head. Then you've told a story. Me, I like
solos that tell stories more than I like solos that outline changes.

Sometimes I can just solo by playing the tune in octaves with some
relevant chord shots. It's a nice contrast.

Cheers,
Kevin
www.TheNettles.com