开云体育

On 10/11/2010 11:55 AM, Angelo wrote:

I personally don't put much stock in "toilet busts". They are usually
entrapments.

"Denny Crane!!!" :-)

Hi Alisdair,

....This is not why I write this at all. I write it to make people
aware, so they can make better informed choices....

I know this to be true of you.

Thank you for that great post. It won't have any significant impact on those who believe in on-line courses, but it was extremely informative for those truly interested. I believe that most of those attracted to on-line courses dp sp for one of three reasons: 1) They can't find a good teacher in their area (which could mean lots of things, from none are available to there are good teachers but they don't want to pay them, &c); 2) They've had bad experiences with teachers in the past (which, again, could be attributed to many reasons); and 3) They are currently studying or have studied extensively and are looking to supplement themselves through the influences of others.

Of those three, I feel personally that the group which benefits in the most tangeable way are the third. Outside research is not only helpful, it is absolutely necessary, and on-line courses are one of many ways available toward that end - each with its own set of advantages and disadvantages.

I don't know why Jimmy Bruno started his on-line course in the first place, but financial gain has to be pretty high on the list. Maybe, though, he feels he has a lot to say and not a lot of one-on-one time to offer. Maybe he just can't stand all of the "know-it-all wannabes" out there being up-close and personal (it takes a certain temperament to deal with those, for sure). Many maybes, all within his discretion.

He is a great player, and, contrary to one post to the contrary, seems a likeable enough person. I have no doubt that those in the third group who enrolled got a lot out of it. Others, I wouldn't know, testimonials notwithstanding. I'm glad that the discussion left the "why's of the demise" and moved toward the efficacy of on-line learning. It's a much more relevant topic, even though it usually sheds more heat than light on forums such as this, and takes Jimmy's possible agendas out of the equation.

I remember reading a book on Hypercard by one of the makers of the program (I can't remember his name and threw out the book during my latest move, but it was just called "Hypercard"). In it, he stated emphatically that he felt that books do not belong on computers; that a physical book was much better suited for cross-referencing and retaining the content than was a computer and monitor. Now we see the successful marketing of items designed really to clear the book shelves and make room for something else, for portability (a book is not portable?, and, of course, for those who just want the latest technology because it's kool. I don't think in the end it will have proven to be a better way to retain information than a book.

NYC Mayor Bloomberg (oh, how I despise that man...) said that because of computers, we are developing a nation of "cut and pasters", and not true researchers.

I was approached also by an educational software company (Sunburst Communications), way before the Internet was huge, to put together a "Bob Hansmann How I Did It" (not really the title - I just stole that from "Young Frankenstein" - it just seemed to fit) method for learning by a computer program produced by them. I declined because, at least for me, I get my results one-on-one. It's my style, and it's where I excel, though it was probably a mistake on my part - a beginner program would have actually been pretty neat. I was also offered publication of a "B.H. Method Book", which I declined for the same reason. So I very much see how you feel about it, Alisdair.

I do know that my personal teachers could never have been replaced by an on-line course. Even any one of their just-in-passing anecdotes was more than worth the price of admission, and they truly cared. Could I care about an on-line student the way I do about a personal one? I don't see how, and, even though I may be wrong in saying this, I can't see how others claim that they can.

best,
Bobby

Alisdair Wrote,.

I chose not to having read the research on HOW we really learn music.

snip
I want to emphasize that I am not against online lessons etc, all methods
should be used, but they are no substitute for a teacher or
mentor.



I understand, what Alisdair means here, and I agree. I have never done any
formal "research" on this. All I've ever done is try to learn, and try to
help others to learn. To paraphrase this, I'd prefer to say "help others to
discover the source of the music they already have within them". I've
written my own concept of this, and it's a tough thing to do with words.



Check it out.



Dave Woods



_,___

--- In jazz_guitar@..., JVegaTrio@... wrote:

As much as I love Jimmy Bruno's playing and his approach to
teaching/playing jazz guitar, I'm not surprised to find out about this. The Web is a
great tool/resource/etc, but there's just no substitute for personal,
in-the-room instruction, period.

Juan,
I couldn't agree with you more!
tony hughes

I don`t know how pot is tested for.

He was prosecuted for sex in a public toilet - on his
TV interview he freely admitted it - there was no entrapment.

I don`t have an issue with anybody`s sexuality but find the
idea of a person having sex in a public toilet pretty revolting.

Under age teenagers should be able to use a toilet
without the possibility of witnessing any kind
of low-life activity.

"Zip me up before you go go"

Will

At 11:23 AM 10/11/2010, you wrote:

May we look forward to his next world tour of
Gent`s toilets ??

I hate to sound "out of the loop", but what does this mean?

He was busted some years ago, allegedly propositioning an undercover cop in a men's washroom.

Which lead to the nasty joke ...

What's white and runs down the bathroom wall? George Michael's latest release!

I don't care about an emotional connection with my instructor(s)... at least not nearly as much as I care about their ability to communicate clearly, demonstrate on the instrument, explain what they're doing etc.

I'm taking a course in mixing online right now and what keeps me working at it is:
1. learning a skill I need and enjoying doing the work, not to mention being able to listen to the work of everyone else in the class. (not unlike being able to see other's videos and Jimmy's comments on them, on JBGI)

2. Deadlines and a course outline keeping me on task!
I'm one of those people who can't stay with things if I don't have some deadline by whihch I must complete the work.

Oh and,
3. The course is freakin expensive, so I'd feel aweful if I just didn't bother working at it, thus wasting my money.

Chris

--- In jazz_guitar@..., "Joe Gentile" <jgentile@...> wrote:

Stop speculating. Go to jimmybruno.com and view his video in which
he reads his press release and tells you a bit more.

It does not give much more information. Just that everyone loves
everyone, there has been no falling out, they just decided to split up up and JB is going to set himself up on his own domain.

Mark

I am referring specifically to music education.

Do any of the sources you cite specifically discuss jazz? It's only common sense that teaching someone to play an instrument, produce a good tone, interpret a composition and so on can only be taught effectively in person. But in jazz there's also the 'note choice' element of improvisation, which I think can be taught effectively online. I'm currently working with Christopher Woitach's Jazz Textures course and finding it useful, somewhere in between using a book and personal tuition.

-Keith

He was busted for crashing a car under the influence of cannabis. What does
that have to do with his homosexuality, admitted or otherwise?
I personally don't put much stock in "toilet busts". They are usually
entrapments.

--- In jazz_guitar@..., Jeff Shirkey <jcshirke@...> wrote:

The research shows the efficacy of in-person tuition versus online
instruction.

Citations please? And are you referring specifically to online music
instruction, or are you referring to online education in general,
regardless of subject area?

I am referring specifically to music education.

There are two important areas:

1/ The research on how we learn music
2/ The research on the effectiveness of online music instruction versus traditional methods

Here's some references (a friend of mine did a Phd.
in this field). Unfortunately most of them are not online, you will
have to find them in one of the online digital libraries of education
research or at a University library.

Kendall, J.R. and Oaks,M. Evaluation of perceived teaching
effectiveness: course delivery via interactive video technology versus
tradition classroom methods. Deosnews.

Latcham, C., Mitchell,J. & Atkinson, R. Videoconferencing Networks
and Applications in Higher Education. IFIP International Teleteaching
Conference, Norway, August.

Liertz,C. Three videoconference sessions for presenting and receiving
masterclasses in music. In Meredith, S (ed) Video Conferencing in
Higher Education and Business. University of New England:New Zealand.

Ritchie, H. & Newby, T.J. Classroom lecture discussion vs. live
televised instruction: A comparison of effects on student performance,
attitude and interaction. The American Journal of Distance Education.

Schiller, J. & Mitchell, J. Interacting at a distance: Staff and
Student Perceptions of Teaching and Learning via Videoconferencing.
AARE/NZARE Joint Conference Educational Research: Discipline and
Diversity, Deakin University, Geelong, Victoria.

Topping, K. Cooperative learning and peer tutoring: an overview. The
Psychologist: Bulletin of the British Psychological Society.

The current Internet is inadequate for transmitting music and
professional audio so most research is now focussed on
Internet2 technology () A number of
institutions (for example here in NY the Manhattan School of Music)
are working with the technology and researching it's effective use.

AES White Paper: Technology Report TC-NAS 98/1: Networking Audio and
Music Using Internet2 and Next-Generation Internet Capabilities


Here's are a few references on research on HOW people learn music.
Compare how you will use the technology to fulfill those needs.

Bamberger J, The mind behind the musical ear, Harvard
University Press

Bluestine E, The ways children learn music, GIA Publications

Bultler D, The musicians guide to perception and cognition, Schirmer

Ferguson D, The why of music, University of Minnesota Press

Gordon E E, The psychology of Music Teaching, Prentice-Hall

Gordon E, Learning Sequences in Music GIA, Publications

Horner V, Music Education, Australian Council for Education Research

Jaque-Dalcroze, Rhythm Music and Education, Riverside Press

One of the areas they are currently researching is in
the area of emotional or personal connection with a teacher and it's
importance in learning.

Again, is this with respect to music or other areas? Personally, I
think much of the social science "research" (learning about how we
learn, etc.) is utterly useless, and I say that because I'm on the
receiving end of all kinds of bureaucratic nonsense about "learning
outcomes," "course objectives," "learning styles" and other things
that are deemed essential to the learning process. My first-hand
experience indicates otherwise.

Any one who is serious about their learning will do the research on
the efficacy of online learning and then seek out a teacher, even if
that means they have to travel, move etc.

Of course, you have a vested interest in wanting to believe this
because your own livelihood rests (in part) on keeping a steady flow
of face-to-face students. These other forms of music education
directly impact your bottom line.

This is not why I write this at all. I write it to make people
aware, so they can make better informed choices.

As I have written here before because of my background, I had/have
plenty of opportunity to establish online tuition, infact before
any of the current crop of sites and it would have been incredibly lucrative.

I chose not to having read the research on HOW we really learn music.

The assumption you are making is that the other forms of music
education are equally effective and therefore impact more traditional
methods. The number of students who join me having done the online lessons scenario, points otherwise. Unfortunately, there is a limit to how many I can teach. Most times I have a waiting list of students who want to study with me.

I want to emphasize that I am not against online lessons etc, all methods should be used, but they are no substitute for a teacher or
mentor.

Mr Michael has been freed from jail today

From the article:

Michael served half of an eight-week sentence in jail for crashing his car while under the influence of cannabis.

How do you guys over there test for pot?

May we look forward to his next world tour of
Gent`s toilets ??

I hate to sound "out of the loop", but what does this mean?

best,
Bobby

The research shows the efficacy of in-person tuition versus online
instruction.

Citations please? And are you referring specifically to online music
instruction, or are you referring to online education in general,
regardless of subject area?

One of the areas they are currently researching is in
the area of emotional or personal connection with a teacher and it's
importance in learning.

Again, is this with respect to music or other areas? Personally, I
think much of the social science "research" (learning about how we
learn, etc.) is utterly useless, and I say that because I'm on the
receiving end of all kinds of bureaucratic nonsense about "learning
outcomes," "course objectives," "learning styles" and other things
that are deemed essential to the learning process. My first-hand
experience indicates otherwise.

Any one who is serious about their learning will do the research on
the efficacy of online learning and then seek out a teacher, even if
that means they have to travel, move etc.

Of course, you have a vested interest in wanting to believe this
because your own livelihood rests (in part) on keeping a steady flow
of face-to-face students. These other forms of music education
directly impact your bottom line.

I am sure the demise (of JBGI)...

I suspect the break down has occurred over the financial pie...

I'm not picking on you, but a lot of people have now speculated about
what they suspect happened, but does anyone actually have any credible
information about what *actually* happened?

Jeff

Stop speculating. Go to jimmybruno.com and view his video in which he reads his press release and tells you a bit more.

--- In jazz_guitar@..., "akmbirch" <akmbirch@...> wrote:

Google/Youtube and the technologists have already figured out how to
make money from the new technology. They are making a killing.
Youtube financial estimates of $1.5B/Year. And they are loving all
the "free" content, much provided by musicians, that is helping fill
their coffers.

By comparison (from IFPI):

The total 2009 U.K. music industry revenue was $1.57 billion

The total 2009 USA music industry revenue was $4.63 billion

The total 2009 Worldwide music industry was $17.03 billion

--- In jazz_guitar@..., "Bob" <keller@...> wrote:

Readers might also be interested in these articles:

about Gershwin's original "I Got Rhythm" and how his changes differed from the jazz standard ones (which you call "Original"):



about rhythm changes variations and contrafacts:

Very useful and informative.

However, during performance most players will vary the changes.

The contrafacts list looks like a list I produced in 1983 which
has been added to, it was posted on the fore runner to this group.
It's amazing how these things get circulated and where
they turn up - 1983 to 2010!

In a message dated 10/11/2010 11:11:53 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
akmbirch@... writes:

- In _jazz_guitar@... (mailto:jazz_guitar@...) ,
Jeff Shirkey <jcshirke@...> wrote:

> The research shows the efficacy of in-person tuition versus online

instruction.

Citations please? And are you referring specifically to online music
instruction, or are you referring to online education in general,
regardless of subject area?

I am referring specifically to music education.
===
This changes if the choice is between excellent online instruction versus
fair to middling personal instruction.
It might also change if the choice is between relatively expensive personal
instruction versus much cheaper online instruction.

Jack H

--- In jazz_guitar@..., JVegaTrio@... wrote:

As much as I love Jimmy Bruno's playing and his approach to
teaching/playing jazz guitar, I'm not surprised to find out about this. The Web is a
great tool/resource/etc, but there's just no substitute for personal,
in-the-room instruction, period.

The research shows the efficacy of in-person tuition versus online
instruction. One of the areas they are currently researching is in
the area of emotional or personal connection with a teacher and it's importance in learning. Any one who is serious about their learning will do the research on the efficacy of online learning and then seek out a teacher, even if that means they have to travel, move etc. The rest will press the buy now button as it is easy....

I am sure the demise in this instance has much more to do with money rather than its efficacy. As research on buying patterns shows people want to believe they got a great deal/made the best decision/etc, no-one likes to be a sucker! The focus of sites likes this is about earning money using the promise of learning. Sites like this are big business, they generate lots of cash for their owners/sellers. The aim is to price low and have high volume.

My understanding is that Jimmy established the site in conjunction with others. I suspect the break down has occurred over the financial pie, as the money grows, people have a tendency to want more. The
partnership probably broke down over how the financial pie was to be sliced. I am sure it will only be a temporary demise, there's way too much money to be made.

Mr Michael has been freed from jail today



May we look forward to his next world tour of
Gent`s toilets ??

Will

hi jazzweasel
i have a great heritage 535 semy hollow body
with a seth lover pick up in the neck
beatiful guitar versatile
great sound
if its relevant ican send you some pictures of the guitar
willing to trade it
benzi halfon

On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 12:06 AM, jazzweasel <jazzweasel@...> wrote:

For sale or trade
1996 Guild X-170 Manhattan with OHSC and same year catalog

No issues, a couple little marks, Plays and sound terrific.
It really is as nice as the pics show.
$1200 shipped and PayPal'd CONUS cash sale
$1300 trade value
branded guitars only, no parts guitars please.

lots of pics here:

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