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I just finished it for real for the first time.The other times I was more than half asleep when watching Each time this time I've been awake as I was for Wolf Hall 2 I just loved it too-- I did finally enter into Cassandra smiling over the burning letters -- now I see they want us to see she's burning Jane all right -- to protect her. She, Cassandra, did not want anyone to know of her refusal of Hobday or why (to be with Jane who deeded her very much)The book & film give her the excuse: Jane asked her to hide her "sadness" (depressions). I identified in a new way- due to my strokes and now condition & memories of being with Jim as he died.. I have been trying and trying and not getting to the book to read it for the second time. Just don't get there -- have to hope for August for time. But I don't want to wait and will write just on the film beginning sometime this week. It'll take me some time. The Brontes are there -- Cassandra hugging Jane as she dies and holding on is Jane Eyre hugging Helen Burns as Helen dies with the loving friend/sister falling asleep clinging to the body. Both actresses playing Cassandra were very good; as the movie progressed both of them aged, but especially Keely Hawes.. Phyllis Logan gave Mrs Austem some dignity; the actress for Mary Austn made her understandale.In this iteration only the Elizabeth Austen Knight mean, a hypocrite I just delighted in the choice of actress: Patsy Ferrnan was perfect. What a relief at long last no conventional beauty I'm not sure I can write about Wolf Hall 2 in depth without reading through at least once (I know I can't) so maybe a short one while I wait for more strength to read through the trilogy. Ellen

I omitted Mary Hayes and Frances Brook, boh Lees whom Austen cites, & the Porters. Susan Allen published a book recently on Austen's reading, a slightly different selection, a more academic book We should not target the men Scott, the man who wrote Hermsprong, Holcroft, Godwin ... Ellen <ellen.moody@...> wrote:

Starting a week from tomorrow for 4 weeks. What I spent later afternoon and evening on: It reads like a novek: Th Sewing Girl's Tale & Elizabeth Canning https://reveriesunderthesignofausten.wordpress.com/2025/05/27/summer-syllabus-for-olli-at-au-june-mini-it-reads-like-a-novel-john-wood-sweets-sewing-girls-tale/ Ellen

[spoiler alert if you haven’t watched Miss Austen all the way through!!] SCROLL DOWN SCROLL DOWN One of the best touches in Miss Austen is the one that brings a major romantic thread to a happyparticispty climax - ie, when the brave servant who is devoted to Isabella Fowle, deliberately throws herself . down the stairs right after overhearing Cassandra read Louisa Musgroves fall from the steps at L The servant does this, so as to force Mr Lidderdale to come back to the Fowle residence to tend to her, which in turn creates a fresh chance for Isabella and Mr Lidderdale to declare fall their mutual love, which they do. I particularly enjoyed that twist, because I’ve believed, for nearly 20 years now, that Louisa does exactly that - falls and pretends to be seriously injured - in order to bring about happy romantic endings. If I get a chance, I would love to ask Gill Hornby and Andrea Gibb if either of them has ever had the Same idea about Louisa’s fall. Arnie

Above all, the third volume of Persuasion, had a chance to polish & nuance Vol 1 & 2. It would have stood out as one of the best novels ever written. But she was not a free person, did not have limitless time. Could not work well in Bath After that I'm with Susan. Vol 1 of The Watsons is before us. The fragment is just so rich _honest_, suggestive. Look at my calendar: http://www.jimandellen.org/austen/watsons.calendar.html Sanditon in too rough draft a stage; but we see what a marvel and departure it might have been Come to that I wish she had not lopped and chopped P&P and we had the Bingley & Jane scenes. She despaired to get it before the public, stabilized into print. (Print settles it says Keats) The state of what she left shows how the world could not begin to recognize what her texts were in the persons of publishers looking to make some profit. The power of a family over an unmarried penniless woman (kept that way by the society) I've read and studied all Romney's choices and know she just skims the surface of all the novelists' writing. Radcliffe, Smith, Burney were able to break out of shackles of family, society, publishers as cerberuses. You had to do it to truly succeed. Austen made a solid start when disease killed her. Stael wrote of this bind for novelist: the level of understanding in the public you had to appeal to Ellen

Dorothy: “Arnie, I love the quotation that began your researches. I think the closest JA came to the idea you were looking for comes at the return of Jane and Elizabeth from Netherfield, early in the novel: “They were not welcomed home very cordially by their mother. Mrs. Bennet wondered at their coming, and thought them very wrong to give so much trouble, and was sure Jane would have caught cold again. But their father, though very laconic in his expressions of pleasure, was really glad to see them; he had felt their importance in the family circle. The evening conversation, when they were all assembled, had lost much of its animation, and almost all its sense by the absence of Jane andElizabeth.” Dorothy I’m sorry I didn’t respond to your above, wonderful comment, which I just reread while scrolling through recent emails (while luxuriating on the Wailea beach in Maui on a beautiful afternoon of balmy sea breezes and ocean surf’s gentle roar). Indeed, your catch reveals that it was the cleverest of screenwriting - to lift that early bit of narration about a return to Longbourn by J&E, and transport it to a later return by them, and then put the words in Mr Bennet’s mouth - picking up on the fact that such earlier narration was, explicitly, a summary of his thoughts. I’m willing to bet, now that I think about this further, that there must be other such instances of clever, screenwriting, in the rest of the 1995 P&P, as well as in the better adaptations of the other Austen novels - they would be fun to collect - I’m predicting that there are at least a dozen in total scattered through the Austen film corpus. Arnie

In terms of irony vis-à-vis how the real Jane Austen is still ignored in favor of a false, Bowdlerized version of her, this news tidbit that popped up today is right up there alongside the ersatz image of Jane Austen viewed every day by countless Brits on the face of the 10-pound note. First read this article from today in the Hampshire Chronicle: *Jane Austen poem goes on display at Winchester Cathedral *05/23/25 by Sebastian Haw <https://www.hampshirechronicle.co.uk/author/profile/321391.Sebastian_Haw/> *A Poem written by Jane Austen in her own hand is now on display at Winchester <http://www.hampshirechronicle.co.uk/news/winchester/> Cathedral, offering* * visitors a rare opportunity to view an original manuscript by one of England’s most beloved authors. * At a private opening on Thursday, May 22, local grandees milled with members of the Lefroy family, some of whose ancestors played an important role in Austen's life. A ribbon was cut by Lady Caroline Hervey-Bathurst, who created watercolours to be sold in the cathedral shop as postcards and prints. *)*The poem, composed in memory of Austen’s close friend and mentor Anne Lefroy, is the centrepiece of a new exhibition, *Angelic Women: The Friendship of Jane Austen and Anne Lefroy*, running from May 23 to October 19 in the cathedral’s *Kings and Scribes* exhibition space. Speaking at the event, Canon Dr Roland Riem, Vice-Dean and Canon Chancellor of Winchester Cathedral, said: “Jane Austen’s presence is still very much felt at Winchester Cathedral, where she spent her final days and now rests. This exhibition offers a rare and intimate glimpse into her personal life and the deep friendships that shaped her writing. We’re delighted to share this precious manuscript with visitors and to honour the legacy of one of England’s greatest literary voices.” Another feature of the evening was the spellbinding music, composed by Peter Symonds student Zach Jones, 17, and performed by Sarah-Jane Butler, 17, also a student at Symonds. The composition puts Austen's poem to music.*)*Anne Lefroy was a significant influence on the young writer, known for encouraging Jane’s creativity and sharing her own extensive library before her sudden death in a riding accident in 1804. The manuscript is a moving tribute and a remarkable insight into Austen’s personal life and literary voice. Admission to the exhibition is included with a cathedral annual pass, available online or on arrival. No pre-booking is required. Visitors are also encouraged to stop by the Cathedral Scribes on the same floor to discover more about traditional penmanship and calligraphy, and the gift shop which is stocked with Austen keepsakes. To mark the exhibition’s opening, Winchester Cathedral has hidden 10 Jane Austen postcards around the Outer Close which, when claimed, offers free entry to the Jane Austen exhibition. The postcards (pictured) read: "Congratulations! Because you found this postcard you have unlocked one free entry pass to the brand-new Jane Austen poetry exhibition inside Winchester Cathedral which has opened today (May 23). Simply hand in your postcard at the Welcome Desk to claim your complimentary access. Visit before October 19 to claim your prize. " Treasure hunts were a popular Regency-era pastime, when young people and house guests often engaged in riddles and games. * Angelic Women: The friendship of Jane Austen and Anne Lefroy’s poetry exhibition *will run at Winchester Cathedral between May 23 and October 19. For full details, visit *winchester-cathedral.org.uk/event/ja250/* <https://www.winchester-cathedral.org.uk/event/ja250/>. A special opportunity to view the original manuscript of Jane Austen’s poem, in her hand, about the death of her close friend, Mrs Anne Lefroy. Anne was a mentor to Jane, encouraging her writing and sharing her extensive library before Anne’s untimely death following a riding accident in 1804. *Angelic Women* is part of *Celebrating Jane* – Winchester Cathedral’s 250th anniversary celebrations marking Austen’s birth. A statue located in the Cathedral Inner Close will

There are all sorts of things unfinished whe Vol 2 ends, in a hasty couple of sentences all but one (Anne has not told Lady Russell what a hypocritical snake he is). Here's my calendar with the argument prefacing it. I took 3 years and many headaches to get the S&S calendar in print (I got no money), and it's been seen by hundreds of people since I put it on the Net http://www.jimandellen.org/austen/emcalendars.html http://www.jimandellen.org/austen/na.calendar.html http://www.jimandellen.org/austen/s&s.calendar.html There was to have been a painful scene of humiliation on a Tuesdaynight at the theatre with Lady Russell snubbing Wentworth & making it appear to al Anne is engaged to him Ellen On Sat, May 24, 2025 at 11:09 AM Tyler Tichelaar via groups.io <tyler@...> wrote: > > Ellen, the other day you said something about how Persuasion should have had a third volume. Did Austen intend to continue the story beyond what we have do you think, or was the intent to expand the current text in places in the middle? > > Tyler >

> that is the characters write at such length as to allow the > author to dive into his or her subconscious, reach that part of the > mind from which dreams come. Why do you think that the author is diving into his or her subconscious in these cases? > Begin forwarded message: > > From: "Ellen Moody via groups.io" <ellen.moody@...> > Subject: Re: [Janeites] No scenes of Jane & Bingley, of Brandon & Marianne walking, talking &c > Date: 20 May 2025 at 22:54:23 BST > To: [email protected] > Resent-From: ellen.moody@... > Reply-To: [email protected] > > Why thank you, Dorothy. I saw your email earlier today about the > prevalence of dramatic dialogue or narrative in parts of P&P. These > are found everywhere in epistolary novels, which when they really "get > going;" that is the characters write at such length as to allow the > author to dive into his or her subconscious, reach that part of the > mind from which dreams come. In Clarissa after a while no one could do > anything else, but write day and night, and still there would not be > enough time t write that much. The same holds true for Grandison, > Rousseau's La Nouvelle Heloise and others. > > I cannot remember when I first read S&S to tell you where I was but I > had read it and P&P by the time I was 13. The scene that riveted me > was the one where Lucy Steele "confides" in Elior that she & Edward > have been engaged for four years. I felt all Elinor's stunned shock, > disbelief at first, grief in the following chapters where we enter > into her thinking about it.Davies conception absolutely depends on > Thompson's screenplay and the 1996 movie > > Here is a blog where I wrote out my thinking about P&P > > https://reveriesunderthesignofausten.wordpress.com/2012/06/26/tick-tick-tick-tick-epistolarypptuesdaypatternincessanttimeclocking/ > > http://www.jimandellen.org/austen/p&p.calendar.html > > Here are all the calendars: > > http://www.jimandellen.org/austen/emcalendars.html > > I rejoice we have gotten friendly here on Janeites > > Ellen > > On Tue, May 20, 2025 at 4:57 PM Dorothy Gannon via groups.io > <dorothy.gannon@...> wrote: >> >> Ellen, I’m fascinated by your thoughts on the process of creating and revising the novels. I have a vivid recollection of where I was the first time I read S&S (perhaps the only one of Austen’s novels for which that is the case) at the moment when it is revealed that it is Edward’s brother who married Lucy Steele, when suddenly, bam! - the melancholy story abruptly turns into a happy ending. Well, I didn’t see *that* coming, was my thought. >> >> Yes, I just rewatched the Davies S&S and noticed how he plumped the role of Brandon out even beyond what Thompson accomplished in her screenplay – and I think Davies’s version owes a lot to hers. It’s fascinating how much they added to the character of Brandon. >> >> I wasn’t able to get to your webpage, Ellen, when I began writing this note, but look forward to reading it after I return home. >> >> Dorothy >> >> >> >> >> >> Ellen wrote: >> >> In response to Dorothy, >> >> Well I'm an interested party. I wrote and published one paper >> ferreting out the underlying calendar of S&S; the other 6 I did it was >> too much ( lifetime) to try to write up essays so I just place them on >> my website: >> >> http://www.jimandellen.org/austen/emcalendars.html >> >> From these intensive studies I concluded S&S and P&P originally >> epistolary novels, and whole parts of MP (especially between >> Portsmouth, London, the house), and that Persuasion is seriously >> unfinished -- it was to have a third volume. I also felt I saw gaps >> showing where sutures happened. >> >> Austen herself said she drastically cut P&P because she was determined >> it should be published. Remember she was waiting 30 years ... NA first >> finished 13 years ago when she wrote present preface >> >> Anyway (I put this in a blog on the calendar for P&P) I noticed Volume >> I had very short chapters, much shorter than those of Vol 2 and 3. One >> way to lop and chop once you know what is primary is cut the talk and >> dance scene

I’ve now watched the first 3 episodes - I enjoyed these little interviews with all the actors: https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/mediapacks/miss-austen It's particularly interesting to read the very careful, hedged comments about the extremely unflattering portrayals of James and Mary Lloyd Austen in Miss Austen. It's gratifying to me to finally see at least some honest depiction of inconvenient truths about what really happened in the Austen family saga, and I would imagine that there are a number of descendants of James and Mary Austen out there who are not happy with how their matriarch and patriarch are depicted. For a fuller picture of what I dubbed "The Massacre of Steventon", check out these blog posts of mine from way back when: https://sharpelvessociety.blogspot.com/2012/04/half-years-residence-in-her-family.html https://sharpelvessociety.blogspot.com/2017/01/even-more-of-shadow-stories-of-jane.html And as to James as the wannabe poseur writer whose puny skills were dwarfed by his little sister's, the following reminds me that David Nokes's excellent bio of Jane Austen was perhaps the first to take the proper measure of James Austen's literary pretensions: https://sharpelvessociety.blogspot.com/2009/11/luke-lickspittle-sophia-sentiment-and.html ARNIE P.S.: That unhappiness also perhaps goes, to a lesser extent, for some descendants of Edward Austen Knight and his wife Elizabeth, given that the latter is portrayed as a mean-spirited ogre who treated Cassandra Austen as a kind of servant whom she entraps into servitude as nanny to a quintet of her young children, until Jane in effect bails Cassandra out.

DOROTHY: "Arnie, I love the quotation that began your researches." Glad you enjoyed it, Dorothy! DOROTHY: "I think the closest JA came to the idea you were looking for comes at the return of Jane and Elizabeth from Netherfield, early in the novel: "They were not welcomed home very cordially by their mother. Mrs. Bennet wondered at their coming, and thought them very wrong to give so much trouble, and was sure Jane would have caught cold again. But their father, though very laconic in his expressions of pleasure, was really glad to see them; he had felt their importance in the family circle. The evening conversation, when they were all assembled, had lost much of its animation, and almost all its sense by the absence of Jane and Elizabeth." Bravo, Dorothy! Your excellent catch makes it clear that Davies imported that narration about their return from Netherfield, and then turned it into dialog about their return from London and Hunsford, respectively. DOROTHY: "As for adaptations getting it right, I can think of a couple. In the 1995 P&P, someone on Austen-L pointed out at the time that only a portion of the novel’s text depicting the famous proposal scene is given in dialog; much is simply described. Of course, the screenwriter didn’t have that luxury! Someone printed a transcript of the scene for a side-by-side comparison, and it was impressive how Andrew Davies managed to convey the scene in dialog." Indeed, that was brilliantly done by him and/or whoever else was on his screenwriting team. DOROTHY: "Another beautiful example, from another film, is Emma Thompson’s "Sense and Sensibility," which smoothly covered some of the novel’s flaws and rounded out characters who would otherwise have little screen time – Edward Ferrers and Colonel Brandon." I agree that Thompson created brilliant, memorable dialog for Edward and the Colonel - however I don't consider that a flaw of the novel - I believe Austen deliberately rendered them both un-eloquent. ARNIE

In response to Dorothy, Well I'm an interested party. I wrote and published one paper ferreting out the underlying calendar of S&S; the other 6 I did it was too much ( lifetime) to try to write up essays so I just place them on my website: http://www.jimandellen.org/austen/emcalendars.html From these intensive studies I concluded S&S and P&P originally epistolary novels, and whole parts of MP (especially between Portsmouth, London, the house), and that Persuasion is seriously unfinished -- it was to have a third volume. I also felt I saw gaps showing where sutures happened. Austen herself said she drastically cut P&P because she was determined it should be published. Remember she was waiting 30 years ... NA first finished 13 years ago when she wrote present preface Anyway (I put this in a blog on the calendar for P&P) I noticed Volume I had very short chapters, much shorter than those of Vol 2 and 3. One way to lop and chop once you know what is primary is cut the talk and dance scenes themselves between Jane & Bingley; just leave narrative. They are not the major couple; linchpins are in Elizabeths (proposals) and Lydia's story (elopement) I think S&S is a book too revised, over revised so to speak. I'm not sure she knew how she meant to end it. Read carefully and you discover what Thompson did for her film: Brandon silent, often not there, the favored presence Wlloughby; nonetheless, it's Brandon to the rescue each time -- the assembly dance, Marianne's near mortal illness, retrieving her from the storm, retrieving the mother to be there, then it is he who knows and was involved in the story of Willoughby & Eliza 2. Elinor right; there is something that needs to be explained in Willoughby's obsessive nasty attacks, mocking of Brandon. We attack a person we know we have badly wronged (see Mrs Norris' behavior to Fanny). Yes just a sentence, but a real duel. So I think that the last 3 chapters are short, especially that final one. generalized, truncated, actually written very late (To have an ending) around 1811. Then Thompson and after her Davies builds up Brandon enormously. So here we are -- she & Davies added scenes of conversations and lengthened what was there for Brandon. Go to book. Almost none of it is is there, no one-on-one conversations Ellen On Sat, May 17, 2025 at 5:03 PM Dorothy Gannon via groups.io <dorothy.gannon@...> wrote: > > Ellen writes: > I find it interesting there are no scenes in S&S of Marianne talking with Brandon because similarly there are no scenes in P&P of Jane and Bingley talking to one another. Yet the pairs love one another and marry at books’ endings. > > > True, Ellen. Strange, I’d never noticed that we see no actual dialog between Bingley and Jane. Maybe because, in their case, we’re told over and over that they do talk, though no dialog is given; everybody, not just Elizabeth, notices that they’re frequently somewhere off to the side talking, in a room ignoring everyone else, sitting next to one another at dinner. Deep in conversation when Elizabeth discovers them by the mantlepiece just after Bingley's proposal. We also get some reports from Jane. So their coming together at the end feels natural, like the closing of a circle. > > Less so in S&S, where it seems the strong esteem and lively friendship Marianne develops for Brandon happens offstage, so to speak, after the main action of the story. > > I think JA wrote only the bare bones, the essence of the story she wanted to tell. And she only wrote what really interested her. > > Dorothy > > > > > > > > > > > >

I know most of the people because I xeroxed (this was before the Internet became ubiquitous) a very thick volume of letters, documents, diaries put together by her brother's son and a grandson and then read it. I think it's now an expensive facsimile reprint. I also bought and read several of the biographies of the family as a group and individuals. I still don't know them all. Those in the novel are identified and their relationship to one another briefly described. There was an Isabella and a Dr Nidderdale. The romance by the seashore was written vaguely; no name was ever given. Two more suitors beyond Lefroy and Biggs-Wither are in the letters but the flirtation or attachment or relationship or whatever you want to call it came earlier. Ellen On Mon, May 19, 2025 at 7:44 PM Tyler Tichelaar via groups.io <tyler@...> wrote: > > I never have enough time either, Ellen. I am also enjoying Miss Austen, though I find it a bit hard to keep track of the characters and the family connections. It does make me want to read Austen's letters. > > Tyler >

I watched art 2 last night. o have to let yourself "go" be immersed. I found it powerful. I am glad of these hitherto "obscure" characters (members of the Austen clan, extended) particularly the new mals, e.g. Dr Liddderdale. Like Wolf Hall 2, which I'm watching at the same time, they are threading in actors of color subtly, carefully. There were none in previous seasons of both. I thought the choices were very well done as they did in that latest Persuasion). The black British woman playing Lady Russell she brought to life as both tyrannical but meaning well. The young black woman playing Jane Seymore's younger sister, It is so hard not finding enough time to do all I want to do :) Here reread Miss Austen and read her Godmersham Park (Anne Sharp the heroine). Tired even before I begin, Ellen

The Moonstone: a schedule and links and pictures" https://ellenandjim.wordpress.com/2025/05/16/a-little-wilkie-collins-in-the-night-trollopepeers-groups-io-are-reading-the-moonstone-together/ Ellen

The other day, a random quotation in my Twitter feed caught my eye: “Every day, we should hear at least one little song, read one good poem, see one exquisite picture, and, if possible, speak a few sensible words.” – Goethe, Book 5, Chapter 1, *Wilhelm Meister’s Apprenticeship* I don’t know about you, but that immediately reminded me of a memorable line in *Pride & Prejudice*, spoken by Mr. Bennet to Elizabeth, just before she leaves for Hunsford in Chapter 27. I could hear in my mind’s ear that line spoken by Mr. Bennet, to the effect that, with both Elizabeth and Jane traveling, he would not hear two sensible words spoken together during their absence. So I wondered, might this be allusion to Goethe’s famous 1795 novel? However, I then learned that it was apparently not translated into English until after JA’s death. So, how could that have happened? I went looking for that line in the text of P&P, and I couldn’t find it –- and that sent me to the transcription of the 1995 film adaptation, where I found it: MR. BENNET: Well, Lizzy, on pleasure bent again. Never a thought of what your poor parents will suffer in your absence? ELIZABETH: It is a pleasure I could well forego, father, as I think you know. But I shall be happy to see Charlotte. MR. BENNET: What of your cousin Mr Collins and the famous Lady Catherine de Bourgh? As a connoisseur of human folly, I thought you impatient to be savouring these delights. ELIZABETH: Of some delights, I believe, sir, a little goes a long way. MR. BENNET: Yes. Well, think of me, Lizzy. *Until you or your sister Jane return, I shall not hear two words of sense spoken together.* You'll be very much missed, my dear. Very well, very well. Go along then. Get along with you. I went back to that same point in the text of P&P, and that’s where I found the following parallel narration: “The only pain was in leaving her father, who would certainly miss her, and who, when it came to the point, so little liked her going, that he told her to write to him, and almost promised to answer her letter.” It made me realize that this was one of the few instances in which I have found an adaptor of Austen doing such a great job, that they equalled Austen’s gift, especially in P&P, for dialog. So I finish by throwing a question to the group –- can you think of any other instances in which you have taken note of an adaptation getting it just right in dramatizing a scene? Cheers, ARNIE

Austen Variations: Todd Living with Austen; Miss Austen book into film, a draft Comments on blog in blog's section for comments very welcome; will be taken into account in final copy https://reveriesunderthesignofausten.wordpress.com/2025/05/06/austen-variations-todds-living-with-austen-hornbys-novel-memoir-miss-austen-into-walsh-gibbs-tv-serial-miss-austen/ Ellen