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The PCTA has updated their San Joaquin river bridge closure page with bypass information. The write up sounds like they coordinated with Inyo NF, but they don't specify this. Most of the information is for PCTA permit holders, but there is some discussion of local permit holders.
They say that the continuous travel requirement is being waived for the bypass, however you must travel by road directly between the two trailheads. No going into Bishop to resupply. There are other restrictions mentioned.
Here's the link.
Frank
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Frank
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Does Parchers resort near South Lake handle resupply boxes?? If yes, this would allow a resupply without a trip to Bishop.? Of course this detour still allows for an MTR resupply.
On May 24, 2023 2:22 PM, Frank <frankdpct@...> wrote: The PCTA has updated their San Joaquin river bridge closure page with
bypass information. The write up sounds like they coordinated with Inyo
NF, but they don't specify this. Most of the information is for PCTA
permit holders, but there is some discussion of local permit holders.
They say that the continuous travel requirement is being waived for the
bypass, however you must travel by road directly between the two
trailheads. No going into Bishop to resupply. There are other
restrictions mentioned.
Here's the link.
https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-trail/closures/central-california/south-fork-san-joaquin-river-bridge-damaged/
Frank
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Frank
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Yes they accept resupply. They have showers too.
Frank
On 5/24/2023 2:44 PM, Marion Davison
wrote:
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Does Parchers resort near South Lake handle
resupply boxes?? If yes, this would allow a resupply without a
trip to Bishop.? Of course this detour still allows for an MTR
resupply.
--
Frank
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Interesting news Frank. Important to note that the advice in that link is specific to holders of PCT long-distance permits. The advice in relation to "local permits" says:
"Wilderness permits other than PCT Long-distance Permits require continuous wilderness travel: an unbroken path on system trails or within wilderness. Exiting the wilderness for anything other than accomplishing this detour (such as travel into the town of Bishop) terminates your permit and a new permit would then be required."
On Thursday, 25 May 2023 at 07:49:32 am AEST, Frank <frankdpct@...> wrote:
Yes they accept resupply. They have showers too.
Frank
On 5/24/2023 2:44 PM, Marion Davison
wrote:
Does Parchers resort near South Lake handle
resupply boxes?? If yes, this would allow a resupply without a
trip to Bishop.? Of course this detour still allows for an MTR
resupply.
The PCTA has updated their San Joaquin river
bridge closure page with
bypass information. The write up sounds like they
coordinated with Inyo
NF, but they don't specify this. Most of the information
is for PCTA
permit holders, but there is some discussion of local
permit holders.
They say that the continuous travel requirement is being
waived for the
bypass, however you must travel by road directly between
the two
trailheads. No going into Bishop to resupply. There are
other
restrictions mentioned.
Here's the link.
Frank
--
Frank
--
Frank
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Lange,
I think the second sentence, "Exiting the wilderness for
anything other than accomplishing this detour (such as
travel into the town of Bishop) terminates your permit and a new
permit would then be required", indicates an exception to the
continuous travel requirement in this case. Hopefully Inyo NF
will provide further guidance.
Frank
On 5/24/2023 4:09 PM, Lange Jorstad via
groups.io wrote:
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Interesting news Frank.
Important to note that the advice in that link is specific
to holders of PCT long-distance permits. The advice in
relation to "local permits" says:
"Wilderness permits
other than PCT Long-distance Permits require continuous
wilderness travel: an unbroken path on system trails or
within wilderness. Exiting the wilderness for anything
other than accomplishing this detour (such as travel into
the town of Bishop) terminates your permit and a new
permit would then be required."
Yes they accept resupply. They have showers too.
Frank
On
5/24/2023 2:44 PM, Marion Davison wrote:
Does Parchers resort near South Lake handle
resupply boxes?? If yes, this would allow a resupply
without a trip to Bishop.? Of course this detour still
allows for an MTR resupply.
--
Frank
--
Frank
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That's true, it does insinuate that this is also possible on a regular permit, but as you say it would be nice to see this verified by Inyo.
On Thursday, 25 May 2023 at 10:05:00 am AEST, Frank <frankdpct@...> wrote:
Lange,
I think the second sentence, "Exiting the wilderness for
anything other than accomplishing this detour (such as
travel into the town of Bishop) terminates your permit and a new
permit would then be required", indicates an exception to the
continuous travel requirement in this case. Hopefully Inyo NF
will provide further guidance.
Frank
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All I read, just like Lange is stating, ?that this detour only valid for PCT permit, since their permits are for 500mi and not for JMT. We wish and hope it was otherwise , but that remains to be seen. Karina Bezkrovnaia
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On May 24, 2023, at 17:46, Lange Jorstad via groups.io <langejorstad@...> wrote:
? That's true, it does insinuate that this is also possible on a regular permit, but as you say it would be nice to see this verified by Inyo.
On Thursday, 25 May 2023 at 10:05:00 am AEST, Frank <frankdpct@...> wrote:
Lange,
I think the second sentence, "Exiting the wilderness for
anything other than accomplishing this detour (such as
travel into the town of Bishop) terminates your permit and a new
permit would then be required", indicates an exception to the
continuous travel requirement in this case. Hopefully Inyo NF
will provide further guidance.
Frank
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I'm working on getting a definitive answer from Inyo.? The people at the ranger station have no idea.? I left a message with a bigger shot at Inyo.? I'll report back when and if I get a response.
I had an idea, assuming the bypass is legal.? You can still walk the entire JMT by following the trail all the way to the bridge, turn around, and make your way to Piute (or Bishop) Pass.? Then repeat at the other end.? Lots of extra miles of course.
If I were going to do it I'd do at least the Bishop Pass to bridge section.? You don't want to miss Muir Pass and Evolution Valley! The section from Piute Pass junction to the bridge is fairly MEH.
-- Byron NevinsLead Moderator of JMT at groups.io
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Although one of my fond memories of that section was once I entered Kings Canyon, walking along the river in the Canyon. This was the Kings Canyon I had seen in photos and never experienced in person :).
I'm working on getting a definitive answer from Inyo.? The people at the ranger station have no idea.? I left a message with a bigger shot at Inyo.? I'll report back when and if I get a response.
I had an idea, assuming the bypass is legal.? You can still walk the entire JMT by following the trail all the way to the bridge, turn around, and make your way to Piute (or Bishop) Pass.? Then repeat at the other end.? Lots of extra miles of course.
If I were going to do it I'd do at least the Bishop Pass to bridge section.? You don't want to miss Muir Pass and Evolution Valley! The section from Piute Pass junction to the bridge is fairly MEH.
--
Byron Nevins
Lead Moderator of JMT at
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NB:? The PCTA announcement also contains this reminder:
"PCT Long-distance Permits?do not allow for camping off the PCT?corridor, this includes while traveling to and from trailheads. If you cannot do this travel in a day, you must if you wish to take this detour and camp on it."
I don't see any waiver of this provision in the PCTA notice.
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I think the message is inartfully constructed, creating some ambiguity, but the intention is clear: the xception, such as it is, is for PCTA permit holders only, not those with INyo, Yosemite, SEKI, Sierra NF etc "local" permits.
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Perhaps I'm mistaken, but having clicked this link: And scrolling quite a way down, you come to a section titled: How "local" wilderness permits (ie., non-PCT Long-distance Permits) work on this detour.You will see this text:
Please travel through the detour while protecting the area from overuse. No additional permits are needed on the “exit portion” of your trip. If you would like to camp on the “re-entry portion” of the detour, please obtain a new permit. Otherwise, your previously issued permit allows you to travel the detour for the purpose of detouring around the South Fork San Joaquin River Bridge.
Wilderness permits other than PCT Long-distance Permits require continuous wilderness travel: an unbroken path on system trails or within wilderness. Exiting the wilderness for anything other than accomplishing this detour (such as travel into the town of Bishop) terminates your permit and a new permit would then be required.
The reading of this suggests to me that we are allowed to do the detour with a few contingencies. We will not need new permits if:
When we re-enter we hike that entire section of the detour and get back to the JMT without camping.
We do not travel to a town, or anywhere else, for that matter (the line - Exiting the wilderness for anything other than accomplishing this detour...). We only exit to then re-enter and get back to the trail.
I take this to mean that whether you are heading north or south, the section of the detour that you hike after having exited must be done the same day that you exit. Camping on the outbound part of the detour is allowed. PCT permit holders are not allowed to camp anywhere on the detour due to the requirements of their permits:
PCT Long-distance Permits do not allow for camping off the PCT corridor, this includes while traveling to and from trailheads. If you cannot do this travel in a day, you must obtain local permits if you wish to take this detour and camp on it.
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A logistical thought. ?If one took Paiute pass trail to the north lakeTrail head and instead of exiting returned up the Lamarck lake trail and continurd over Lamarck col, would that be legal? ? Both trails use the same trailhead. ?I dont think this would be considered leaving the trail. ?I would not recommend this route early season, but after the melt it would be a beatiful alternative
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On May 25, 2023, at 6:30 PM, Jeff Rolka <jeffrolka@...> wrote:
?Perhaps I'm mistaken, but having clicked this link: And scrolling quite a way down, you come to a section titled: How "local" wilderness permits (ie., non-PCT Long-distance Permits) work on this detour.You will see this text:
Please travel through the detour while protecting the area from overuse. No additional permits are needed on the “exit portion” of your trip. If you would like to camp on the “re-entry portion” of the detour, please obtain a new permit. Otherwise, your previously issued permit allows you to travel the detour for the purpose of detouring around the South Fork San Joaquin River Bridge.
Wilderness permits other than PCT Long-distance Permits require continuous wilderness travel: an unbroken path on system trails or within wilderness. Exiting the wilderness for anything other than accomplishing this detour (such as travel into the town of Bishop) terminates your permit and a new permit would then be required.
The reading of this suggests to me that we are allowed to do the detour with a few contingencies. We will not need new permits if:
When we re-enter we hike that entire section of the detour and get back to the JMT without camping.
We do not travel to a town, or anywhere else, for that matter (the line - Exiting the wilderness for anything other than accomplishing this detour...). We only exit to then re-enter and get back to the trail.
I take this to mean that whether you are heading north or south, the section of the detour that you hike after having exited must be done the same day that you exit. Camping on the outbound part of the detour is allowed. PCT permit holders are not allowed to camp anywhere on the detour due to the requirements of their permits:
PCT Long-distance Permits do not allow for camping off the PCT corridor, this includes while traveling to and from trailheads. If you cannot do this travel in a day, you must obtain local permits if you wish to take this detour and camp on it.
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I think you're right, but if you are going NOBO that is a long day to get from wherever you camp before exiting the South Lake trailhead, up to North Lake, then the entire Piute Canyon to the JMT (and then, of course, a bit further to find camping). I guess if you can get a ride from S. Lake to N. Lake that would save about 10 miles, but no guarantees there. A little easier going south, but not much.
On May 25, 2023, at 6:30 PM, Jeff Rolka <jeffrolka@...> wrote:
?Perhaps I'm mistaken, but having clicked this link: And scrolling quite a way down, you come to a section titled: How "local" wilderness permits (ie., non-PCT Long-distance Permits) work on this detour.You will see this text:
Please travel through the detour while protecting the area from overuse. No additional permits are needed on the “exit portion” of your trip. If you would like to camp on the “re-entry portion” of the detour, please obtain a new permit. Otherwise, your previously issued permit allows you to travel the detour for the purpose of detouring around the South Fork San Joaquin River Bridge.
Wilderness permits other than PCT Long-distance Permits require continuous wilderness travel: an unbroken path on system trails or within wilderness. Exiting the wilderness for anything other than accomplishing this detour (such as travel into the town of Bishop) terminates your permit and a new permit would then be required.
The reading of this suggests to me that we are allowed to do the detour with a few contingencies. We will not need new permits if:
When we re-enter we hike that entire section of the detour and get back to the JMT without camping.
We do not travel to a town, or anywhere else, for that matter (the line - Exiting the wilderness for anything other than accomplishing this detour...). We only exit to then re-enter and get back to the trail.
I take this to mean that whether you are heading north or south, the section of the detour that you hike after having exited must be done the same day that you exit. Camping on the outbound part of the detour is allowed. PCT permit holders are not allowed to camp anywhere on the detour due to the requirements of their permits:
PCT Long-distance Permits do not allow for camping off the PCT corridor, this includes while traveling to and from trailheads. If you cannot do this travel in a day, you must obtain local permits if you wish to take this detour and camp on it.
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Does anyone have a close up photo of the bridge now?
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Does anyone have a close up photo of the bridge now?
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Does anyone have a close up photo of the bridge now?
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Its important to understand exactly what you are looking at here.? That deck is twisted to a downward slope of about about 70 degrees? near the middle. ? That is steeper than the Half-Dome cables route. Walking this plank is not a friction move.? Anyone attempting to cross would be not so much standing on the deck as hanging from that upstream railing.? That is the weight of hiker and pack supported by the arms for a 100 foot traverse.? Directly below the steepest point is a gap of about ten feet between cross members.? Best case scenario in case of a fall is impact on one of those steel members, driven by pack weigh with a force sufficient to break any bone you care to name.? At that point the down stream side, which should be vertical, is bent down about 60 degrees, or? 15 degrees below horizontal.? The anchors at each end apparently held just enough during the winter so that the bridge twisted instead of rolling over, but now? are pulling out of the rock and concrete to which they were fastened.
Preliminary examination by a structural engineer among us is that it is worse than it appears.
The resolution of these photos are sufficient for you to zoom in and identify the exposed anchor fasteners at the base at each end.
?
I am reliably informed based on these photos that the weight of the bridge is still pulling the ends away from each anchor, and that the most likely failure mode is sudden and catastrophic, not slow and gradual.?
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On Jun 19, 2023, at 3:38 PM, Peter Hirst <peter.p.hirst@...> wrote:
? Its important to understand exactly what you are looking at here.? That deck is twisted to a downward slope of about about 70 degrees? near the middle. ? That is steeper than the Half-Dome cables route. Walking this plank is not a friction move.? Anyone attempting to cross would be not so much standing on the deck as hanging from that
upstream railing.? That is the weight of hiker and pack supported by the arms for a 100 foot traverse.? Directly below the steepest point is a gap of about ten feet between cross members.? Best case scenario in case of a fall is impact on one of those steel members, driven by pack weigh with a force sufficient to break any bone you care to name.? At that point the down stream side, which should be vertical, is bent down about 60 degrees, or? 15 degrees below horizontal.? The anchors at each end apparently held just enough during the winter so that the bridge twisted instead of rolling over, but now? are pulling out of the rock and concrete to which they were fastened.
Preliminary examination by a structural engineer among us is that it is worse than it appears.
The resolution of these photos are sufficient for you to zoom in and identify the exposed anchor fasteners at the base at each end.
?
I am reliably informed based on these photos that the weight of the bridge is still pulling the ends away from each anchor, and that the most likely failure mode is sudden and catastrophic, not slow and gradual.?
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Lange Jorstad
Karina Bezkrovnaia
