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Historically, correct me if I am wrong, Peter.? Wasn't historically the JMT from South to North?? I've done the JMT 11 times, my favorite starting point is from Kennedy Meadows South.? It's an easy permit to get, and it gives you about a week of hiking-altitude adjustment to work up to high altitudes.? It also starts at the southern border of the "High Sierra".? I find the hike easiest going South to North (I've done it equally from North to South).? Going South to North, if you are altitude adjusted, you are doing, typically a gradual up all day, and doing a strenuous "up" for a short period of mileage (the only exception is Muir Pass).? How about the others here who have done it both ways?
Getting a permit from Kennedy Meadows South (there are two Kennedy Meadows on the PCT), is incredibly easy.? It requires hiking about an extra 60 miles (rounded) to the hike.? If you have the time, it's so convenient.? My last JMT was at age 70.? I am 74 now, and hike for a month-plus in the Sierras every year now, for the last 26 years.
PS, I used to be lead moderator for the JMT Yahoo Group for 8 years.? I am still lead moderator (and founder) of?
The Sierra, per my understanding from reading Lizzy Wenk's notes (I used to edit her spreadsheet-appendix of her book for years), is that it goes from Kennedy Meadows South to Old Station CA.? The Sierra for about 100-some miles overlaps with the Cascade Mountain Range, so it's not a clear cutoff on the north end, but Old Station CA is good enough for her and hence, for me.
There might be a psychological reason why many people choose the now established JMT route from Happy Isles to Whitney or the other direction instead.
They could ask, if I might only have one chance in the foreseeable future, which route I would choose? The most likely answer would be THE ONE. I often told my friends living in California: Yosemite and other National Parks in CA, and JMT and many its alternatives, they all in your backyard and you may pick anyone at your anytime, go to its trailhead within one day drive.
I don't have their luxury so I picked THE ONE. If I have my next chance I will perhaps consider THE ONE first, but different direction.
Doug 在 2024 年 2月 月 18 日週日，時間：上午 4:17 ， Peter Hirst I always get a little concerned when anyone suggests that the Trail is any safer or more suitable for beginners because the tread is well defined and easy to discern.? This is the last thing you want to rely on, it at all.? In the same category is the fact that it is often crowded. In many palces and at many times you will find it is neither.? And it only takes one. These are both absolutely false and irresponsible factors to rely on, particularly for a novice.? People have been lost and died who left the trail only long enough and far enough to tafe a leak.? If you have skills and confidence to? responsibly follow the JMT from? Happy Isles to Red's Meadow, many other routes are well within your capabilities.
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Roleigh.? You are correct on two points. The JMT starts on the Mt Whitney summit. Approximately 210 miles to HI. I prefer north bound from HM over either AP or NAP. You can drop your pack and rip up Mt Langley and camp 1st night around Rock Creek. Then Guitar lake 2nd night, Summit Whitney, then get? to the Basin below Forester. 22 mile day. That 5 miles of loose sand on the PCT from CSL to Siberia Pass is a perfect example of 2 steps forward 1 step back. It takes 10 miles worth of energy for the 5 miles. I hate that climb up to Bullfrog lake? from Bubbs, and the switchbacks from MTR to Mosquito lakes(Sallie Keyes), climbing out of Tully Hole switchbacks, that's about it. A couple of other passes I don't like are Kersarge heading out, Spookey Meadow above Agnew lake. The switchbacks out of Algiers Lakes are one of my favorites, along with Bear Ridge, and the Golden Staircase. It's way easier to get a ticket from Trail Heads in the south, and out of Yosemite.? Be careful out there? I Don't like the long down hills, because I rip thru them at 4 to 5? mph.? -- Jeffery Yeider
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This is all great discussion, I’ll just add for a NOBO preference that Mather Pass is marvelous going up this way - not so much from the north as the rocks and steps are much higher/taller. And this comes just after a similar climb up the golden staircase.
JeffH
“Wonder is the beginning of?wisdom.”? Socrates
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I have often wondered why so few people start at KM. ?It seems like a good idea. ?Probably the added distance. ?I have hiked both NOBO and SOBO, and do not have a preference. ?Ironically, I have never hiked the official trail end to end. ?Alternative pathways included Glacier Point (panorama trail) and Clouds Rest which I highly recommend. ?The Mist trail is hard to beat though. ?I hiked the High trail a few times although the JMT section is preferred. ? I suspect almost everyone who goes to MTR skips the small section of JMT between the N and S MTR side trails. ?I know I have. ?Re: seeing other hikers. ?When I have hiked off the JMT anywhere outside Yosemite I see 0-2 people per day. ?On the JMT I see 20 to >100 people per day. ?Stepping back on the JMT from another trail after a few days of isolation can be a bit jarring for that reason. ?My only advice is that any option is a good option. ?Take whatever permit you can get and go. ?I have never had a disappointing trip in the Sierra. ?See you on the trail in Sept! (PCT SOBO 24')
On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 06:18:20 PM PST, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
Historically, correct me if I am wrong, Peter.? Wasn't historically the JMT from South to North?? I've done the JMT 11 times, my favorite starting point is from Kennedy Meadows South.? It's an easy permit to get, and it gives you about a week of hiking-altitude adjustment to work up to high altitudes.? It also starts at the southern border of the "High Sierra".? I find the hike easiest going South to North (I've done it equally from North to South).? Going South to North, if you are altitude adjusted, you are doing, typically a gradual up all day, and doing a strenuous "up" for a short period of mileage (the only exception is Muir Pass).? How about the others here who have done it both ways?
Getting a permit from Kennedy Meadows South (there are two Kennedy Meadows on the PCT), is incredibly easy.? It requires hiking about an extra 60 miles (rounded) to the hike.? If you have the time, it's so convenient.? My last JMT was at age 70.? I am 74 now, and hike for a month-plus in the Sierras every year now, for the last 26 years.
PS, I used to be lead moderator for the JMT Yahoo Group for 8 years.? I am still lead moderator (and founder) of?
The Sierra, per my understanding from reading Lizzy Wenk's notes (I used to edit her spreadsheet-appendix of her book for years), is that it goes from Kennedy Meadows South to Old Station CA.? The Sierra for about 100-some miles overlaps with the Cascade Mountain Range, so it's not a clear cutoff on the north end, but Old Station CA is good enough for her and hence, for me.
There might be a psychological reason why many people choose the now established JMT route from Happy Isles to Whitney or the other direction instead.
They could ask, if I might only have one chance in the foreseeable future, which route I would choose? The most likely answer would be THE ONE. I often told my friends living in California: Yosemite and other National Parks in CA, and JMT and many its alternatives, they all in your backyard and you may pick anyone at your anytime, go to its trailhead within one day drive.
I don't have their luxury so I picked THE ONE. If I have my next chance I will perhaps consider THE ONE first, but different direction.
Doug 在 2024 年 2月 月 18 日週日，時間：上午 4:17 ， Peter Hirst I always get a little concerned when anyone suggests that the Trail is any safer or more suitable for beginners because the tread is well defined and easy to discern.? This is the last thing you want to rely on, it at all.? In the same category is the fact that it is often crowded. In many palces and at many times you will find it is neither.? And it only takes one. These are both absolutely false and irresponsible factors to rely on, particularly for a novice.? People have been lost and died who left the trail only long enough and far enough to tafe a leak.? If you have skills and confidence to? responsibly follow the JMT from? Happy Isles to Red's Meadow, many other routes are well within your capabilities.
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Thank you Tom!?
I have backpacked in Sierra almost every year since 2011. The last big one was HST in 2022 July Fourth week.?
I totally agree with you about how enjoyable it is when hiking the less traveled trails!?
Last year I backpacked in Grand Canyon and Alaska, but still managed to go to Young Lakes with my wife at the end of Sept. We camped at Lower Young Lake for three days two nights, were the only human being there the whole time. It was a small trip, but turned out to be one of the best. A few years ago I backpacked with a friend in two trips inside Yosemite and completed literally a 8 figure by two separate loops: one loop south of 120 and one loop north of it, with them joining at Tuolumne Meadow area. In the north loop there were three days we saw no souls other than ourselves. Once we almost stumbled on a bird nest with eggs right in the middle of the trail — so it must’ve been quite some time before anyone hiked that trail.
I am now in a sort of retirement mode and have time to do JMT. I remember there were many trailheads in Yosemite that allow people to hike over Donohue Pass but now there are only two, one is of course Happy Isle, the other is at Tuolumne Meadows. Much fewer options.
I may consider NOBO thanks to your suggestion. So I have another question now: How to plan resupplies NOBO-wise?
Thank you!
On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 09:16 Tom Kennefick via <tomkennefick= [email protected]> wrote:
I have often wondered why so few people start at KM.? It seems like a good idea.? Probably the added distance.? I have hiked both NOBO and SOBO, and do not have a preference.? Ironically, I have never hiked the official trail end to end.? Alternative pathways included Glacier Point (panorama trail) and Clouds Rest which I highly recommend.? The Mist trail is hard to beat though.? I hiked the High trail a few times although the JMT section is preferred. ? I suspect almost everyone who goes to MTR skips the small section of JMT between the N and S MTR side trails.? I know I have.? Re: seeing other hikers.? When I have hiked off the JMT anywhere outside Yosemite I see 0-2 people per day.? On the JMT I see 20 to >100 people per day.? Stepping back on the JMT from another trail after a few days of isolation can be a bit jarring for that reason.? My only advice is that any option is a good option.? Take whatever permit you can get and go.? I have never had a disappointing trip in the Sierra.? See you on the trail in Sept! (PCT SOBO 24')
On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 06:18:20 PM PST, Roleigh Martin < roleigh@...> wrote:
Historically, correct me if I am wrong, Peter.? Wasn't historically the JMT from South to North?? I've done the JMT 11 times, my favorite starting point is from Kennedy Meadows South.? It's an easy permit to get, and it gives you about a week of hiking-altitude adjustment to work up to high altitudes.? It also starts at the southern border of the "High Sierra".? I find the hike easiest going South to North (I've done it equally from North to South).? Going South to North, if you are altitude adjusted, you are doing, typically a gradual up all day, and doing a strenuous "up" for a short period of mileage (the only exception is Muir Pass).? How about the others here who have done it both ways?
Getting a permit from Kennedy Meadows South (there are two Kennedy Meadows on the PCT), is incredibly easy.? It requires hiking about an extra 60 miles (rounded) to the hike.? If you have the time, it's so convenient.? My last JMT was at age 70.? I am 74 now, and hike for a month-plus in the Sierras every year now, for the last 26 years.
PS, I used to be lead moderator for the JMT Yahoo Group for 8 years.? I am still lead moderator (and founder) of?
The Sierra, per my understanding from reading Lizzy Wenk's notes (I used to edit her spreadsheet-appendix of her book for years), is that it goes from Kennedy Meadows South to Old Station CA.? The Sierra for about 100-some miles overlaps with the Cascade Mountain Range, so it's not a clear cutoff on the north end, but Old Station CA is good enough for her and hence, for me.
There might be a psychological reason why many people choose the now established JMT route from Happy Isles to Whitney or the other direction instead.
They could ask, if I might only have one chance in the foreseeable future, which route I would choose? The most likely answer would be THE ONE. I often told my friends living in California: Yosemite and other National Parks in CA, and JMT and many its alternatives, they all in your backyard and you may pick anyone at your anytime, go to its trailhead within one day drive.
I don't have their luxury so I picked THE ONE. If I have my next chance I will perhaps consider THE ONE first, but different direction.
Doug 在 2024 年 2月 月 18 日週日，時間：上午 4:17 ， Peter Hirst I always get a little concerned when anyone suggests that the Trail is any safer or more suitable for beginners because the tread is well defined and easy to discern.? This is the last thing you want to rely on, it at all.? In the same category is the fact that it is often crowded. In many palces and at many times you will find it is neither.? And it only takes one. These are both absolutely false and irresponsible factors to rely on, particularly for a novice.? People have been lost and died who left the trail only long enough and far enough to tafe a leak.? If you have skills and confidence to? responsibly follow the JMT from? Happy Isles to Red's Meadow, many other routes are well within your capabilities.
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Jingbo?Ni,?You can resupply at Onion Valley (Over Kearsarge Pass), Muir Trail Ranch, and Reds Meadows,
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Thanks! Backpackers are allowed to come back to the trail after the excursion to Onion Valley??
Jingbo?Ni,?You can resupply at Onion Valley (Over Kearsarge Pass), Muir Trail Ranch, and Reds Meadows,
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It is permitted if you immediately return after a resupply within 24 hours. There are many options though.?
1. Leave your resupply with your name and pickup date in the trailhead bear lockers.
2. Leave your resupply with the Onion Valley pack station for a fee.
3. Pay?the Onion Valley pack station to deliver the resupply to Kearsarge Lakes for a larger fee.
4. Stay at?the?Mt Williamson Motel And Basecamp in Independence. They will hold your resupply, pick you up at the Onion Valley trailhead and take you to their hotel.
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On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 04:32:22 PM PST, Jingbo Ni <jnistargazer@...> wrote: Thanks! Backpackers are allowed to come back to the trail after the excursion to Onion Valley?? On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 16:29 Lionarry Beck via groups.io <becklaurence@...> wrote: 开云体育: Powerful Email Groups & Collaboration Platform ????
Jingbo?Ni,?You can resupply at Onion Valley (Over Kearsarge Pass), Muir Trail Ranch, and Reds Meadows,
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I have often wondered why so few people start at KM.?
I hiked the section from KM south to the JMT in May 2015 as part of a long PCT section that started at the Mexican border. In springtime, there is plenty of water on the section but later in the year the water carries could get long so in the traditional JMT hiking season, water might be an issue. Also, the KM south trailhead is remote and would require what I assume would be an expensive shuttle. Since I was just going through I don’t know how hard it would be to hitchhike to/from 395 which is needed if you’re starting the hike from there. Those would be the main negatives. If those impediments did not exist the trail would likely have a quota. As it is, it is non quota and an option for those who are very determined.
I should add that it’s a beautiful section, almost on par with the JMT, although less dramatic. At the time, I was just thrilled to be out of the desert and ascending into the high sierra so maybe I was biased.
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You can start at Walker Pass, reachable by bus, which adds another 50 miles. This had been my plan for 2021 (based on a PCTA permit, until Donner Pass, start early July), but couldn't realize because of closed US borders for me.
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Gesendet:?Montag, 19. Februar 2024 um 14:54 Uhr
Von:?"ravi_jmt2013" <ravi@...>
An:[email protected]
Betreff:?Re: [JMT-groups.io] JMT permitting trailheads in Yosemite
[Edited Message Follows]
I have often wondered why so few people start at KM.?
I hiked the section from KM south to the JMT in May 2015 as part of a long PCT section that started at the Mexican border. In springtime, there is plenty of water on the section but later in the year the water carries could get long so in the traditional JMT hiking season, water might be an issue. Also, the KM south trailhead is remote and would require what I assume would be an expensive shuttle. Since I was just going through I don’t know how hard it would be to hitchhike to/from 395 which is needed if you’re starting the hike from there. Those would be the main negatives. If those impediments did not exist the trail would likely have a quota. As it is, it is non quota and an option for those who are very determined.
I should add that it’s a beautiful section, almost on par with the JMT, although less dramatic. At the time, I was just thrilled to be out of the desert and ascending into the high sierra so maybe I was biased.
--
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Walker Pass is an option for sure and I did use the bus system there to get back on trail from a resupply at Lake Isabella (I hitchhiked to town). However, it is very dry and probably hot during the typical JMT season. I remember carrying a lot of water starting northbound from Walker Pass in early May and it was already pretty warm.?
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Roleigh Martin
jyeider
ravi_jmt2013
Henning Rech