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Facebook has what sounds like a reliable report?that the bridge crossing of the South Fork San Joaquin -- the one that spans the Fork where it carries the combined melt from Evolution Basin and Goddard Canyon -- is out according to a USFS helicopter survey.?
I am trying to confirm that with the USFS.
That is a huge watershed and it is hard to picture crossing that waterflow in a year like this.
John Ladd
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Hiking Jim has suggested that an only somewhat longer but partially cross country work around would be to go up Piute Creek and then take the use trails to Darwin Bench. Not ideal, but if marked would make a viable alternative.
On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 7:44 PM John Ladd < johnladd@...> wrote: Facebook has what sounds like a reliable report?that the bridge crossing of the South Fork San Joaquin -- the one that spans the Fork where it carries the combined melt from Evolution Basin and Goddard Canyon -- is out according to a USFS helicopter survey.?
I am trying to confirm that with the USFS.
That is a huge watershed and it is hard to picture crossing that waterflow in a year like this.
John Ladd
-- "When you see a new trail, or a footprint you do not know, follow it to the point of knowing."? - Uncheedah
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Here is his suggested route.
Hiking Jim has suggested that an only somewhat longer but partially cross country work around would be to go up Piute Creek and then take the use trails to Darwin Bench. Not ideal, but if marked would make a viable alternative. On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 7:44 PM John Ladd < johnladd@...> wrote: Facebook has what sounds like a reliable report?that the bridge crossing of the South Fork San Joaquin -- the one that spans the Fork where it carries the combined melt from Evolution Basin and Goddard Canyon -- is out according to a USFS helicopter survey.?
I am trying to confirm that with the USFS.
That is a huge watershed and it is hard to picture crossing that waterflow in a year like this.
John Ladd
"When you see a new trail, or a footprint you do not know, follow it to the point of knowing."? - Uncheedah
-- "When you see a new trail, or a footprint you do not know, follow it to the point of knowing."? - Uncheedah
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Pete Starr has that as Knapsack Route 1, (KR1), Starr's Guide, 1934 at 69-70.? KR 1 starts (SoBo) on the Mono Pass (South) Trail at Second Recess and intersects the Piute Pass Trail up high.? It probably would have been the modern JMT if Little Joe Leconte had been able to get his mules across Gabbott Pass in 1908.? There is a lot more to be said about using (and not using) this route if? serious interest develops as the season comes on.? I? suggest that this is a good instance in which to observe LNT Principle 8.
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It's a work around, but from the look of it, not necessarily a work around that everyone would be comfortable with. Perhaps there are use trails that are unmarked on the basemap, but the turn south from Piute Canyon, over Alpine Col, around the Keyhole and down to Darwin Bench sounds like it involves a lot of talus and route finding. From reading trip reports on High Sierra Topix, I think that is a section of the Sierra High Route (?) so may well have use trails here and there, but it doesn't look like a route for the inexperienced, and photos from previous high snow years indicate that route will be tricky in snow especially if there isn't enough traffic to establish a good boot track.
Wow - if that bridge is out (presumably it is the "lower bridge" on the Caltopo map?), it was a serious bridge, and I would agree that the San Joaquin on that stretch would likely be uncrossable in high flow without a bridge.
On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 12:55:57 pm AEST, Ethan <ethansinbox@...> wrote:
Here is his suggested route.
Hiking Jim has suggested that an only somewhat longer but partially cross country work around would be to go up Piute Creek and then take the use trails to Darwin Bench. Not ideal, but if marked would make a viable alternative. On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 7:44 PM John Ladd < johnladd@...> wrote: Facebook has what sounds like a reliable report?that the bridge crossing of the South Fork San Joaquin -- the one that spans the Fork where it carries the combined melt from Evolution Basin and Goddard Canyon -- is out according to a USFS helicopter survey.?
I am trying to confirm that with the USFS.
That is a huge watershed and it is hard to picture crossing that waterflow in a year like this.
John Ladd
"When you see a new trail, or a footprint you do not know, follow it to the point of knowing."? - Uncheedah
-- "When you see a new trail, or a footprint you do not know, follow it to the point of knowing."? - Uncheedah
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Lange and Peter, I’ve been been on Humphreys several times and specially on Muriel, as it’s one of my most fav lakes. Hiking past Goethe … I can’t imagine such fit this year. It’s all talus there. And by the looks if not familiar I wouldn’t be ok taking such “ detour”, which ?would be more of “ between the rock and a hard place”. Unless some of you are right there to make me company :) I imagine that proximity to MTR would trigger major repair works ASAP? Karina Bezkrovnaia
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On Apr 18, 2023, at 21:03, Lange Jorstad via groups.io <langejorstad@...> wrote:
? It's a work around, but from the look of it, not necessarily a work around that everyone would be comfortable with. Perhaps there are use trails that are unmarked on the basemap, but the turn south from Piute Canyon, over Alpine Col, around the Keyhole and down to Darwin Bench sounds like it involves a lot of talus and route finding. From reading trip reports on High Sierra Topix, I think that is a section of the Sierra High Route (?) so may well have use trails here and there, but it doesn't look like a route for the inexperienced, and photos from previous high snow years indicate that route will be tricky in snow especially if there isn't enough traffic to establish a good boot track.
Wow - if that bridge is out (presumably it is the "lower bridge" on the Caltopo map?), it was a serious bridge, and I would agree that the San Joaquin on that stretch would likely be uncrossable in high flow without a bridge.
On Wednesday, 19 April 2023 at 12:55:57 pm AEST, Ethan <ethansinbox@...> wrote:
Here is his suggested route. Hiking Jim has suggested that an only somewhat longer but partially cross country work around would be to go up Piute Creek and then take the use trails to Darwin Bench. Not ideal, but if marked would make a viable alternative. On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 7:44 PM John Ladd < johnladd@...> wrote: Facebook has what sounds like a reliable report?that the bridge crossing of the South Fork San Joaquin -- the one that spans the Fork where it carries the combined melt from Evolution Basin and Goddard Canyon -- is out according to a USFS helicopter survey.?
I am trying to confirm that with the USFS.
That is a huge watershed and it is hard to picture crossing that waterflow in a year like this.
John Ladd
"When you see a new trail, or a footprint you do not know, follow it to the point of knowing."? - Uncheedah
"When you see a new trail, or a footprint you do not know, follow it to the point of knowing."? - Uncheedah
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Would?that be this bridge? This is the bridge that is about 1/4 mile south of the Evolution creek junction with the S fork of the San Joaquin.
On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 10:44?PM John Ladd < johnladd@...> wrote: Facebook has what sounds like a reliable report?that the bridge crossing of the South Fork San Joaquin -- the one that spans the Fork where it carries the combined melt from Evolution Basin and Goddard Canyon -- is out according to a USFS helicopter survey.?
I am trying to confirm that with the USFS.
That is a huge watershed and it is hard to picture crossing that waterflow in a year like this.
John Ladd
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You would hope so, but I recall that bridge that washed out in 2017 (Middle Fork Kings? Bubbs Creek?) took quite a long time to replace. Here's the bridge in question, on July 15, 2017 - check out the river flow!! I would not attempt to cross that under any circumstances without a bridge. 
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On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 10:44 PM John Ladd < johnladd@...> wrote: Facebook has what sounds like a reliable report?that the bridge crossing of the South Fork San Joaquin -- the one that spans the Fork where it carries the combined melt from Evolution Basin and Goddard Canyon -- is out according to a USFS helicopter survey.?
I am trying to confirm that with the USFS.
That is a huge watershed and it is hard to picture crossing that waterflow in a year like this.
John Ladd
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Anyone has a link to USFS? My Facebook Skills are significantly underdeveloped. Thanks.?
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I think we need to be careful talking about this or any other alternate route, especially this year.? Very few terrains are more unpleasant or hazardous to cross than snow-covered talus, which tends to have big voids between rocks under deteriorating snow.? I hit way more of that than I ever care to do again crossing decent routes over Italy Pass, Red Peak Pass and others in 2017 and 2019. Much less radical conditions than I would expect between Humphreys and Darwin Bench this year. That route winds through 10-12,000 foot elevations, and I can't imagine it being very inviting for? above-average JMT skill levels this year.? I am no authority on this, just offering my observations from doing less ambitious routes under much better conditions.?
I would love to hear from Ned Tibbits and others on this, but at the very least I urge caution in promoting any alternate route, as we determine the specifics of this reported bridge situation.
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I remember that talus going by the Goethe lake and felt that you could slide in like in Garnet or Iceberg. That Summer there were people going to and from Alpine Col. When in Darwin Cyn I wondered about that route from Muriel, as the connection was obvious, only this type of travel is not for my solo skills and much less with ice or snow.? Karina Bezkrovnaia
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On Apr 19, 2023, at 08:02, Peter Hirst <peter.p.hirst@...> wrote:
? I think we need to be careful talking about this or any other alternate route, especially this year.? Very few terrains are more unpleasant or hazardous to cross than snow-covered talus, which tends to have big voids between rocks under deteriorating snow.? I hit way more of that than I ever care to do again crossing decent routes over Italy Pass, Red Peak Pass and others in 2017 and 2019. Much less radical conditions than I would expect between Humphreys and Darwin Bench this year. That route winds through 10-12,000 foot elevations, and I can't imagine it being very inviting for? above-average JMT skill levels this year.? I am no authority on this, just offering my observations from doing less ambitious routes under much better conditions.?
I would love to hear from Ned Tibbits and others on this, but at the very least I urge caution in promoting any alternate route, as we determine the specifics of this reported bridge situation.
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You would hope so, but I recall that bridge that washed out in 2017 (Middle Fork Kings? Bubbs Creek?) took quite a long time to replace
I don’t think this bridge has been replaced yet and that is one of the reasons my late June Rae Lakes Loop permit will likely go unused.?
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A?safe Southbound work-around?would be to leave the trail at Piute Creek, exit Wilderness at North Lake, re-enter at South Lake and take Bishop Pass back to the JMT. Re-supply in Bishop would be easy and come about mid-trail. No talus, no use trails.
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I think I recall a nasty cornice at Bishop?Pass some years, but otherwise it just adds?some miles but would traverse nice terrain with?those miles.?
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Seems better than sticking to the East of the SFSJ, or the Darwin Bench route, both for the environment and for hiker safety. Some people would object to?the added miles, or hiking less of the?iconic route, but they?could always exit early if they needed to (Roads End SEKI via Bubbs or Kearsarge Pass).
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The PCT hikers, in particular, seem likely to use a South Lake - North lake alternative.?
Ned Tibbits and Elizabeth Wenk tell me that it is possible to go along the East side of SFSJ as far as the Goddard Canyon Junction. But that would require an added crossing of Evolution Creek -- just below Evolution's cascade down the switchback section, so faster flow rate, and presumably probably a narrower and deeper stream cut just before Evolution empties into the South Fork.
So larger drainage area (more snow to melt,) faster flow and deeper water. Bad combination.
-- John Curran LaddSan Francisco, CA?415-648-9279
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Reflecting further than my last post,?I recall some campsites on the east side of the usual Goddard Junction bridge and maybe Evolution flows more slowly, and less deep there to the north of those campsites.
John Curran Ladd
San Francisco, CA?
415-648-9279
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My suggestion, provided the smaller bridge above the Evolution Creek convergence, is this route via Sierra National Forest/Dinkey Lakes Wilderness.? It seems to be shorter, misses far less of the JMT, and dumps you out right at MTR, which many people will need.
That said, I've never hiked that trail.
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Is this the bridge right by the piute pass connecting trail to the JMT ??
On Wednesday, April 19, 2023, 05:59:55 AM PDT, Lange Jorstad via groups.io <langejorstad@...> wrote:
You would hope so, but I recall that bridge that washed out in 2017 (Middle Fork Kings? Bubbs Creek?) took quite a long time to replace. Here's the bridge in question, on July 15, 2017 - check out the river flow!! I would not attempt to cross that under any circumstances without a bridge. 
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If that picture is of the bridge right at the N ?border of Sequoia NP (and it sure looks like it), the water is Piute Creek. I exited over Piute Pass from there last year and had planned to do it in reverse this summer to pick up the JMT SOBO where I left off. I don’t think that’s the bridge that washed out, which is farther south. Gorgeous route, by the way, all 17 miles to the Piute Pass TH.?
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On Apr 19, 2023, at 12:14 PM, Lyn via groups.io <jmisslyn@...> wrote:
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Is this the bridge right by the piute pass connecting trail to the JMT ??
On Wednesday, April 19, 2023, 05:59:55 AM PDT, Lange Jorstad via groups.io <langejorstad@...> wrote:
You would hope so, but I recall that bridge that washed out in 2017 (Middle Fork Kings? Bubbs Creek?) took quite a long time to replace. Here's the bridge in question, on July 15, 2017 - check out the river flow!! I would not attempt to cross that under any circumstances without a bridge. <DSC00782 _2019_05_23 05_07_51 UTC_.JPG>
<DSC00782 _2019_05_23 05_07_51 UTC_.JPG>
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John, as of course for some of us is exactly what we wouldn’t like to do - I enter Pine creek and the plan is exit Kearsarge.? I was planning to spend some time in French cyn and resupply at MTR to continue. That stretch of S Joaquin south of MTR is one of my fav along with Goddard canyon cascades. And returning back over Piute defies the purpose of my entry trailhead :( I didn’t want to go over Bishop pass again at all and miss Evolution basin and Muir pass! Just wrote to MTR. They said they have some pics, but need to verify first.
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On Apr 19, 2023, at 08:40, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
?Reflecting further than my last post,?I recall some campsites on the east side of the usual Goddard Junction bridge and maybe Evolution flows more slowly, and less deep there to the north of those campsites.
John Curran Ladd
San Francisco, CA?
415-648-9279
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The PCTA will likely have a detailed report with alternatives in the coming days. ?This problem will likely create a major obstacle for early season thru hikers
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On Apr 19, 2023, at 9:25 AM, Karina Bezkrovnaia via groups.io <kbezkrovnaia@...> wrote:
? John, as of course for some of us is exactly what we wouldn’t like to do - I enter Pine creek and the plan is exit Kearsarge.? I was planning to spend some time in French cyn and resupply at MTR to continue. That stretch of S Joaquin south of MTR is one of my fav along with Goddard canyon cascades. And returning back over Piute defies the purpose of my entry trailhead :( I didn’t want to go over Bishop pass again at all and miss Evolution basin and Muir pass! Just wrote to MTR. They said they have some pics, but need to verify first. Fingers crossed ?? Karina Bezkrovnaia On Apr 19, 2023, at 08:40, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
?Reflecting further than my last post,?I recall some campsites on the east side of the usual Goddard Junction bridge and maybe Evolution flows more slowly, and less deep there to the north of those campsites.
John Curran Ladd
San Francisco, CA?
415-648-9279
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John Ladd
Lange Jorstad
Karina Bezkrovnaia
Andrew Paisley
Rick A.