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As many others have reported, the reservations for Inyo this year are super-competitive like I have never seen before. One issue I had is that the system did not make the August 18 permits available immediately at 7:00 am pacific, which is precisely when I submitted the search query. ?So I had to do so again which cost me around 10-15 seconds. At that time, it appeared that a lot of permits were still available but when I clicked on my choice of Duck Pass, all of the permits were gone!
I didn't expect that, and there were two permits left for Cottonwood Pass, so I grabbed one since I wanted to make sure I got *something* even though I don't really want to start northbound this year.?
After completing the reservation for Cottonwood Pass, I checked overall availability around 7:10 am, and noticed that a Red Cones permit was now available so I grabbed that one and canceled the Cottonwood Pass permit. This way I can start from Mammoth as I had planned, although from a somewhat less desirable start (I wanted to see Duck Lake).
As of right now, there is still one Cottonwood Pass permit (probably the one I cancelled), two Cottonwood Lakes permits, nine Fish Creek permits, two permits for JMT South of Devil's Postpone, five River Trail permits, and that's about it for the popular entry points.
Anyway, just wanted to describe my experience in case it is helpful for others. ?My advice is to give the system five seconds or so after 7:00 am pacific since the inventory doesn't seem to be released at 7 on the dot. ?And be sure to check about 15 minutes later since some people will abandon their carts and permits may go back into the inventory.
This is way more stressful than it used to be!
|
If you’re heading south from Red Cones then Duck Lake is a very short detour. ?I would probably be inclined to drop my pack close to the Duck Lake/JMT trail split and go up over Duck Pass to take in one of the all time greatest views down from Duck Pass to the valley floor.
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On Feb 18, 2022, at 7:23 AM, ravi_jmt2013 < ravi@...> wrote:
As many others have reported, the reservations for Inyo this year are super-competitive like I have never seen before. One issue I had is that the system did not make the August 18 permits available immediately at 7:00 am pacific, which is precisely when I submitted the search query. ?So I had to do so again which cost me around 10-15 seconds. At that time, it appeared that a lot of permits were still available but when I clicked on my choice of Duck Pass, all of the permits were gone!
I didn't expect that, and there were two permits left for Cottonwood Pass, so I grabbed one since I wanted to make sure I got *something* even though I don't really want to start northbound this year.?
After completing the reservation for Cottonwood Pass, I checked overall availability around 7:10 am, and noticed that a Red Cones permit was now available so I grabbed that one and canceled the Cottonwood Pass permit. This way I can start from Mammoth as I had planned, although from a somewhat less desirable start (I wanted to see Duck Lake).
As of right now, there is still one Cottonwood Pass permit (probably the one I cancelled), two Cottonwood Lakes permits, nine Fish Creek permits, two permits for JMT South of Devil's Postpone, five River Trail permits, and that's about it for the popular entry points.
Anyway, just wanted to describe my experience in case it is helpful for others. ?My advice is to give the system five seconds or so after 7:00 am pacific since the inventory doesn't seem to be released at 7 on the dot. ?And be sure to check about 15 minutes later since some people will abandon their carts and permits may go back into the inventory.
This is way more stressful than it used to be!
|
I might do that -- the trip reports I've read for Duck Pass/Lake look interesting. My goal for the first night is Virginia Lake, one of my favorite spots on the JMT. There's probably a good chance that I'll be able to switch to Duck Pass when the two week "walk up" window opens, but that might also be super-competitive unlike 2020 and 2021. ?
Of the Mammoth area southbound entry points, I think Red Cones is probably a little better than the JMT-Devil's Postpile start since the burn area south of Reds is not a very pleasant walk, and the starting trailhead is easy to get to via the Lakes Basin shuttle bus.?
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Ravi, I can state the same - never seen this ! But my issue was that I wanted Cottonwood pass not lakes mid July and tried for 2 weeks - futile :( Ended getting Rush creek- didn’t really wanted go Sobo and start there …. Been looking from cancellation on 07/23-24 no luck … Karina Bezkrovnaia
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On Feb 18, 2022, at 07:34, ravi_jmt2013 <ravi@...> wrote:
?I might do that -- the trip reports I've read for Duck Pass/Lake look interesting. My goal for the first night is Virginia Lake, one of my favorite spots on the JMT. There's probably a good chance that I'll be able to switch to Duck Pass when the two week "walk up" window opens, but that might also be super-competitive unlike 2020 and 2021. ?
Of the Mammoth area southbound entry points, I think Red Cones is probably a little better than the JMT-Devil's Postpile start since the burn area south of Reds is not a very pleasant walk, and the starting trailhead is easy to get to via the Lakes Basin shuttle bus.?
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Thanks Ravi! I just tried to grab two of the Cottonwood Lakes permits but the page literally expired before I could enter all my overnight locations. Now I’ve run out of time to work on it today. Arghh..
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On Feb 18, 2022, at 10:24 AM, ravi_jmt2013 <ravi@...> wrote:
?As many others have reported, the reservations for Inyo this year are super-competitive like I have never seen before. One issue I had is that the system did not make the August 18 permits available immediately at 7:00 am pacific, which is precisely when I submitted the search query. ?So I had to do so again which cost me around 10-15 seconds. At that time, it appeared that a lot of permits were still available but when I clicked on my choice of Duck Pass, all of the permits were gone!
I didn't expect that, and there were two permits left for Cottonwood Pass, so I grabbed one since I wanted to make sure I got *something* even though I don't really want to start northbound this year.?
After completing the reservation for Cottonwood Pass, I checked overall availability around 7:10 am, and noticed that a Red Cones permit was now available so I grabbed that one and canceled the Cottonwood Pass permit. This way I can start from Mammoth as I had planned, although from a somewhat less desirable start (I wanted to see Duck Lake).
As of right now, there is still one Cottonwood Pass permit (probably the one I cancelled), two Cottonwood Lakes permits, nine Fish Creek permits, two permits for JMT South of Devil's Postpone, five River Trail permits, and that's about it for the popular entry points.
Anyway, just wanted to describe my experience in case it is helpful for others. ?My advice is to give the system five seconds or so after 7:00 am pacific since the inventory doesn't seem to be released at 7 on the dot. ?And be sure to check about 15 minutes later since some people will abandon their carts and permits may go back into the inventory.
This is way more stressful than it used to be!
|
It looks like there are spotty cancellations here and there ... I've never seen anything like this.
Cottonwood Pass is definitely an easier entry than Cottonwood Lakes. In 2018, I entered at Cottonwood Lakes and went over New Army Pass and camped at Rock Creek. Even though I spent a night at the trailhead prior to starting, I had a lot of altitude issues that first day and didn't climb Mt. Langley as I had planned. ?Cottonwood Pass which I went over in 2015, in contrast, is pretty gentle and then it is smooth sailing to Rock Creek which is under 10,000 feet.
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All true on ease of the hike, the plus side of entering via Cottonwood Lakes is the lakes basin which is gorgeous. ?If you want a shorter (and IMHO easier) climb, then go over Old Army, not New Army. ?Definitely a bit more intense and scary for some, bringing with it some incredible views and a quicker day.
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On Feb 18, 2022, at 8:05 AM, ravi_jmt2013 < ravi@...> wrote:
It looks like there are spotty cancellations here and there ... I've never seen anything like this.
Cottonwood Pass is definitely an easier entry than Cottonwood Lakes. In 2018, I entered at Cottonwood Lakes and went over New Army Pass and camped at Rock Creek. Even though I spent a night at the trailhead prior to starting, I had a lot of altitude issues that first day and didn't climb Mt. Langley as I had planned. ?Cottonwood Pass which I went over in 2015, in contrast, is pretty gentle and then it is smooth sailing to Rock Creek which is under 10,000 feet.
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Hi Steve,
?
>? before I could enter all my overnight locations
this is not necessary. Log in before 7 an, reload in the right moment, grab the permit, and just add an arbitrary exit trailhead and a short duration, like 3 days, plus the campsites as "unknown". And do not forget to enter a possible alternate trip leader if you want. Then you can pay, and your permit is safe.
?
All the rest is editable afterwards: exit trailhead, trip length, camp sites. If the 15 minutes for each change are not enough you can do it in multiple steps. No reason to stress.
?
Henning (who got his Cottonwood Pass permit for late July straightaway)
?
?
?
Gesendet:?Freitag, 18. Februar 2022 um 17:02 Uhr
Von:?"Steve Perry" <perry240@...>
An:[email protected]
Betreff:?Re: [JMT-groups.io] Inyo Reservations
?
Thanks Ravi! I just tried to grab two of the Cottonwood Lakes permits but the page literally expired before I could enter all my overnight locations. Now I’ve run out of time to work on it today. Arghh..
?
On Feb 18, 2022, at 10:24 AM, ravi_jmt2013 <ravi@...> wrote:
?
?As many others have reported, the reservations for Inyo this year are super-competitive like I have never seen before. One issue I had is that the system did not make the August 18 permits available immediately at 7:00 am pacific, which is precisely when I submitted the search query. ?So I had to do so again which cost me around 10-15 seconds. At that time, it appeared that a lot of permits were still available but when I clicked on my choice of Duck Pass, all of the permits were gone!
I didn't expect that, and there were two permits left for Cottonwood Pass, so I grabbed one since I wanted to make sure I got *something* even though I don't really want to start northbound this year.?
After completing the reservation for Cottonwood Pass, I checked overall availability around 7:10 am, and noticed that a Red Cones permit was now available so I grabbed that one and canceled the Cottonwood Pass permit. This way I can start from Mammoth as I had planned, although from a somewhat less desirable start (I wanted to see Duck Lake).
As of right now, there is still one Cottonwood Pass permit (probably the one I cancelled), two Cottonwood Lakes permits, nine Fish Creek permits, two permits for JMT South of Devil's Postpone, five River Trail permits, and that's about it for the popular entry points.
Anyway, just wanted to describe my experience in case it is helpful for others. ?My advice is to give the system five seconds or so after 7:00 am pacific since the inventory doesn't seem to be released at 7 on the dot. ?And be sure to check about 15 minutes later since some people will abandon their carts and permits may go back into the inventory.
This is way more stressful than it used to be!
--
|
Thank you! Good to know.?
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On Feb 18, 2022, at 11:19 AM, Henning Rech <whrech@...> wrote:
? Hi Steve,
?
>? before I could enter all my overnight locations
this is not necessary. Log in before 7 an, reload in the right moment, grab the permit, and just add an arbitrary exit trailhead and a short duration, like 3 days, plus the campsites as "unknown". And do not forget to enter a possible alternate trip leader if you want. Then you can pay, and your permit is safe.
?
All the rest is editable afterwards: exit trailhead, trip length, camp sites. If the 15 minutes for each change are not enough you can do it in multiple steps. No reason to stress.
?
Henning (who got his Cottonwood Pass permit for late July straightaway)
?
?
?
Gesendet:?Freitag, 18. Februar 2022 um 17:02 Uhr
Von:?"Steve Perry" <perry240@...>
An:[email protected]
Betreff:?Re: [JMT-groups.io] Inyo Reservations
?
Thanks Ravi! I just tried to grab two of the Cottonwood Lakes permits but the page literally expired before I could enter all my overnight locations. Now I’ve run out of time to work on it today. Arghh..
?
On Feb 18, 2022, at 10:24 AM, ravi_jmt2013 <ravi@...> wrote:
?
?As many others have reported, the reservations for Inyo this year are super-competitive like I have never seen before. One issue I had is that the system did not make the August 18 permits available immediately at 7:00 am pacific, which is precisely when I submitted the search query. ?So I had to do so again which cost me around 10-15 seconds. At that time, it appeared that a lot of permits were still available but when I clicked on my choice of Duck Pass, all of the permits were gone!
I didn't expect that, and there were two permits left for Cottonwood Pass, so I grabbed one since I wanted to make sure I got *something* even though I don't really want to start northbound this year.?
After completing the reservation for Cottonwood Pass, I checked overall availability around 7:10 am, and noticed that a Red Cones permit was now available so I grabbed that one and canceled the Cottonwood Pass permit. This way I can start from Mammoth as I had planned, although from a somewhat less desirable start (I wanted to see Duck Lake).
As of right now, there is still one Cottonwood Pass permit (probably the one I cancelled), two Cottonwood Lakes permits, nine Fish Creek permits, two permits for JMT South of Devil's Postpone, five River Trail permits, and that's about it for the popular entry points.
Anyway, just wanted to describe my experience in case it is helpful for others. ?My advice is to give the system five seconds or so after 7:00 am pacific since the inventory doesn't seem to be released at 7 on the dot. ?And be sure to check about 15 minutes later since some people will abandon their carts and permits may go back into the inventory.
This is way more stressful than it used to be!
--
|
Steve?
Came here to say what Henning said. I entered first night trailhead, left everything else blank and chose an alternate leader.?
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On Feb 18, 2022, at 8:22 AM, Steve Perry <perry240@...> wrote:
? Thank you! Good to know.?
On Feb 18, 2022, at 11:19 AM, Henning Rech <whrech@...> wrote:
? Hi Steve,
?
>? before I could enter all my overnight locations
this is not necessary. Log in before 7 an, reload in the right moment, grab the permit, and just add an arbitrary exit trailhead and a short duration, like 3 days, plus the campsites as "unknown". And do not forget to enter a possible alternate trip leader if you want. Then you can pay, and your permit is safe.
?
All the rest is editable afterwards: exit trailhead, trip length, camp sites. If the 15 minutes for each change are not enough you can do it in multiple steps. No reason to stress.
?
Henning (who got his Cottonwood Pass permit for late July straightaway)
?
?
?
Gesendet:?Freitag, 18. Februar 2022 um 17:02 Uhr
Von:?"Steve Perry" <perry240@...>
An:[email protected]
Betreff:?Re: [JMT-groups.io] Inyo Reservations
?
Thanks Ravi! I just tried to grab two of the Cottonwood Lakes permits but the page literally expired before I could enter all my overnight locations. Now I’ve run out of time to work on it today. Arghh..
?
On Feb 18, 2022, at 10:24 AM, ravi_jmt2013 <ravi@...> wrote:
?
?As many others have reported, the reservations for Inyo this year are super-competitive like I have never seen before. One issue I had is that the system did not make the August 18 permits available immediately at 7:00 am pacific, which is precisely when I submitted the search query. ?So I had to do so again which cost me around 10-15 seconds. At that time, it appeared that a lot of permits were still available but when I clicked on my choice of Duck Pass, all of the permits were gone!
I didn't expect that, and there were two permits left for Cottonwood Pass, so I grabbed one since I wanted to make sure I got *something* even though I don't really want to start northbound this year.?
After completing the reservation for Cottonwood Pass, I checked overall availability around 7:10 am, and noticed that a Red Cones permit was now available so I grabbed that one and canceled the Cottonwood Pass permit. This way I can start from Mammoth as I had planned, although from a somewhat less desirable start (I wanted to see Duck Lake).
As of right now, there is still one Cottonwood Pass permit (probably the one I cancelled), two Cottonwood Lakes permits, nine Fish Creek permits, two permits for JMT South of Devil's Postpone, five River Trail permits, and that's about it for the popular entry points.
Anyway, just wanted to describe my experience in case it is helpful for others. ?My advice is to give the system five seconds or so after 7:00 am pacific since the inventory doesn't seem to be released at 7 on the dot. ?And be sure to check about 15 minutes later since some people will abandon their carts and permits may go back into the inventory.
This is way more stressful than it used to be!
--
|
Choosing an alternate leader is key (if you have one). You can only do that when you’re making the reservation. The rest can be filled in later.
|
Regarding the time limit, after you select the permit you want, you have fifteen minutes to proceed to the next step so there's quite a bit of time to specify all the necessary information. It's only after the fifteen minutes is up that the permit is lost and goes back into the pool of available permits. I have my planned overnight stops written down so it is pretty easy to get it all entered in just a few minutes.?
|
You can also go in multiple times to complete the campsites. No need to worry about the 15 minute time limit. Relax and enjoy the planning process.? Randy Satterfield? 704-575-6510
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On Feb 18, 2022, at 12:04 PM, ravi_jmt2013 <ravi@...> wrote:
?Regarding the time limit, after you select the permit you want, you have fifteen minutes to proceed to the next step so there's quite a bit of time to specify all the necessary information. It's only after the fifteen minutes is up that the permit is lost and goes back into the pool of available permits. I have my planned overnight stops written down so it is pretty easy to get it all entered in just a few minutes.?
|
My experience has been that there is no need to reload the web
page to update the availability. I log in, set up the permit
parameters and then use the "next/prev 5 day" buttons to move back
and forth in days until the availability shows for the day. I also
use the filter option to identify my desired trailhead so I don't
have to scroll down the trailhead list. I'm using Chrome on a PC.
I have had notices pop up that the system is too busy. I closed
these boxes and re-selected the trailhead again and finally got
through after a couple of tries.
Frank
On 2/18/2022 7:23 AM, ravi_jmt2013
wrote:
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As many others have reported, the reservations for Inyo this year
are super-competitive like I have never seen before. One issue I
had is that the system did not make the August 18 permits
available immediately at 7:00 am pacific, which is precisely when
I submitted the search query. ?So I had to do so again which cost
me around 10-15 seconds. At that time, it appeared that a lot of
permits were still available but when I clicked on my choice of
Duck Pass, all of the permits were gone!
I didn't expect that, and there were two permits left for
Cottonwood Pass, so I grabbed one since I wanted to make sure I
got *something* even though I don't really want to start
northbound this year.?
After completing the reservation for Cottonwood Pass, I checked
overall availability around 7:10 am, and noticed that a Red Cones
permit was now available so I grabbed that one and canceled the
Cottonwood Pass permit. This way I can start from Mammoth as I had
planned, although from a somewhat less desirable start (I wanted
to see Duck Lake).
As of right now, there is still one Cottonwood Pass permit
(probably the one I cancelled), two Cottonwood Lakes permits, nine
Fish Creek permits, two permits for JMT South of Devil's Postpone,
five River Trail permits, and that's about it for the popular
entry points.
Anyway, just wanted to describe my experience in case it is
helpful for others. ?My advice is to give the system five seconds
or so after 7:00 am pacific since the inventory doesn't seem to be
released at 7 on the dot. ?And be sure to check about 15 minutes
later since some people will abandon their carts and permits may
go back into the inventory.
This is way more stressful than it used to be!
--
Frank
|
I had the same experience as Frank when trying right at 7am.? After a couple of tries I got through and secured my permit.? I rechecked afterwards at about 7:10 and they were all gone for Bishop Pass, which is what I got.
My experience has been that there is no need to reload the web
page to update the availability. I log in, set up the permit
parameters and then use the "next/prev 5 day" buttons to move back
and forth in days until the availability shows for the day. I also
use the filter option to identify my desired trailhead so I don't
have to scroll down the trailhead list. I'm using Chrome on a PC.
I have had notices pop up that the system is too busy. I closed
these boxes and re-selected the trailhead again and finally got
through after a couple of tries.
Frank
On 2/18/2022 7:23 AM, ravi_jmt2013
wrote:
As many others have reported, the reservations for Inyo this year
are super-competitive like I have never seen before. One issue I
had is that the system did not make the August 18 permits
available immediately at 7:00 am pacific, which is precisely when
I submitted the search query.? So I had to do so again which cost
me around 10-15 seconds. At that time, it appeared that a lot of
permits were still available but when I clicked on my choice of
Duck Pass, all of the permits were gone!
I didn't expect that, and there were two permits left for
Cottonwood Pass, so I grabbed one since I wanted to make sure I
got *something* even though I don't really want to start
northbound this year.?
After completing the reservation for Cottonwood Pass, I checked
overall availability around 7:10 am, and noticed that a Red Cones
permit was now available so I grabbed that one and canceled the
Cottonwood Pass permit. This way I can start from Mammoth as I had
planned, although from a somewhat less desirable start (I wanted
to see Duck Lake).
As of right now, there is still one Cottonwood Pass permit
(probably the one I cancelled), two Cottonwood Lakes permits, nine
Fish Creek permits, two permits for JMT South of Devil's Postpone,
five River Trail permits, and that's about it for the popular
entry points.
Anyway, just wanted to describe my experience in case it is
helpful for others.? My advice is to give the system five seconds
or so after 7:00 am pacific since the inventory doesn't seem to be
released at 7 on the dot.? And be sure to check about 15 minutes
later since some people will abandon their carts and permits may
go back into the inventory.
This is way more stressful than it used to be!
--
Frank
|
I found Inyo permits available this morning, booked them, then went to pay.? Tried four times with four different credit cards.? Got a message each time, "Having trouble processing your card."? Anyone else having this problem?
|
Great thread, all of you. I thought I knew everything about the permit system, but got several good ideas. I particularly liked the idea of using the Filter option to show only the desired entry trailhead at 7am Also the idea of using the back-forward arrows repeatedly to see the exact time the new date opens. Experimented with trailhead filter today  Image also attached in case you can't see the embedded one -- John Curran Ladd1616 Castro StreetSan Francisco, CA? 94114-3707415-648-9279
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It could be a browser issue.? I get the same error message if I use SeaMonkey, but have no issue if I use Firefox .
On Feb 19, 2022 11:30 AM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote: Great thread, all of you. I thought I knew everything about the permit system, but got several good ideas.
I particularly liked the idea of using the Filter option to show only the desired entry trailhead at 7am
Also the idea of using the back-forward arrows repeatedly to see the exact time the new date opens.
Experimented with trailhead filter today
Image also attached in case you can't see the embedded one
--
John Curran Ladd
1616 Castro Street
San Francisco, CA? 94114-3707
415-648-9279
|
What!? Browser issue!
Thanks John - the forward back button tip is useful.
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 at 11:41, Marion Davison < mardav@...> wrote: It could be a browser issue.? I get the same error message if I use SeaMonkey, but have no issue if I use Firefox .
|
Lucky you , Henning ! I did all that and still couldn’t grab the permit for 3 week of July. It would say “ too many people have in in their carts” sigh ? first time such thing in 5 years ! Karina Bezkrovnaia
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On Feb 18, 2022, at 08:25, Anand Kumar Sankaran <anand.sankaran@...> wrote:
? Steve?
Came here to say what Henning said. I entered first night trailhead, left everything else blank and chose an alternate leader.? On Feb 18, 2022, at 8:22 AM, Steve Perry <perry240@...> wrote:
? Thank you! Good to know.?
On Feb 18, 2022, at 11:19 AM, Henning Rech <whrech@...> wrote:
? Hi Steve,
?
>? before I could enter all my overnight locations
this is not necessary. Log in before 7 an, reload in the right moment, grab the permit, and just add an arbitrary exit trailhead and a short duration, like 3 days, plus the campsites as "unknown". And do not forget to enter a possible alternate trip leader if you want. Then you can pay, and your permit is safe.
?
All the rest is editable afterwards: exit trailhead, trip length, camp sites. If the 15 minutes for each change are not enough you can do it in multiple steps. No reason to stress.
?
Henning (who got his Cottonwood Pass permit for late July straightaway)
?
?
?
Gesendet:?Freitag, 18. Februar 2022 um 17:02 Uhr
Von:?"Steve Perry" <perry240@...>
An:[email protected]
Betreff:?Re: [JMT-groups.io] Inyo Reservations
?
Thanks Ravi! I just tried to grab two of the Cottonwood Lakes permits but the page literally expired before I could enter all my overnight locations. Now I’ve run out of time to work on it today. Arghh..
?
On Feb 18, 2022, at 10:24 AM, ravi_jmt2013 <ravi@...> wrote:
?
?As many others have reported, the reservations for Inyo this year are super-competitive like I have never seen before. One issue I had is that the system did not make the August 18 permits available immediately at 7:00 am pacific, which is precisely when I submitted the search query. ?So I had to do so again which cost me around 10-15 seconds. At that time, it appeared that a lot of permits were still available but when I clicked on my choice of Duck Pass, all of the permits were gone!
I didn't expect that, and there were two permits left for Cottonwood Pass, so I grabbed one since I wanted to make sure I got *something* even though I don't really want to start northbound this year.?
After completing the reservation for Cottonwood Pass, I checked overall availability around 7:10 am, and noticed that a Red Cones permit was now available so I grabbed that one and canceled the Cottonwood Pass permit. This way I can start from Mammoth as I had planned, although from a somewhat less desirable start (I wanted to see Duck Lake).
As of right now, there is still one Cottonwood Pass permit (probably the one I cancelled), two Cottonwood Lakes permits, nine Fish Creek permits, two permits for JMT South of Devil's Postpone, five River Trail permits, and that's about it for the popular entry points.
Anyway, just wanted to describe my experience in case it is helpful for others. ?My advice is to give the system five seconds or so after 7:00 am pacific since the inventory doesn't seem to be released at 7 on the dot. ?And be sure to check about 15 minutes later since some people will abandon their carts and permits may go back into the inventory.
This is way more stressful than it used to be!
--
|
ravi_jmt2013
Karina Bezkrovnaia
Steve Perry
Henning Rech
Adrian
John Ladd
