|
Mostly for people who haven't hiked the JMT before, though others may want to comment.
The annual JMT Hiker Survey has documented navigation as a common problem, reported by 33% of survey respondent in some years, even low-snowpack years like 2014.
The survey participants with navigation problems usually reported it as a relatively minor problem, presumably because they quickly realized that they have strayed off the JMT and backtrack to the point of their mistake. Navigation problems are most common in the areas where lots of trails intersect. Cutting back is much safer than cutting cross country to re-find the trail as in some location it is easy to not recognize the trail as you pass it and then think the JMT is east of you when it is actually west.
Common areas where people get lost is where there are many trail junctions (esp. near Thousand Island Lakes to Reds Meadow where the cross trails are often more distinct than the JMT because more heavily travelled). The trail signage rarely indicates "JMT this way", just the next pass or destination. I don't think you need a precise gps track (or breadcrumb trail) of the trail, but gps waypoints on a device or paper are very useful, always along with a even more useful paper map. A compass is often recommended though I haven't found them particularly useful and a very small one just generally distinguishing the cardinal directions has been enough for me.
The FB mini-survey on where people get lost: for those of you who are also members of the all-year JMT group on Facebook.
--
John Curran Ladd
1616 Castro Street
San Francisco, CA? 94114-3707
415-648-9279
|
John,
Not sure if you include it in your mini-survey, but you might add "method of navigation".? I have noticed many relying on Apps such as Guthooks (now Far Out) getting lost when cell phones fail or just having a lower awareness of their surroundings and where things connect than those using maps or both. Curious if my personal observations are supported by the data.
Ethan
Ethan Gallogly, PhD author of The Trail, an Amazon Bestseller "When you see a new trail, or a footprint you do not know, follow it to the point of knowing."? - Uncheedah
On Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 10:38 AM John Ladd < johnladd@...> wrote: Mostly for people who haven't hiked the JMT before, though others may want to comment.
The annual JMT Hiker Survey has documented navigation as a common problem, reported by 33% of survey respondent in some years, even low-snowpack years like 2014.
The survey participants with navigation problems usually reported it as a relatively minor problem, presumably because they quickly realized that they have strayed off the JMT and backtrack to the point of their mistake. Navigation problems are most common in the areas where lots of trails intersect. Cutting back is much safer than cutting cross country to re-find the trail as in some location it is easy to not recognize the trail as you pass it and then think the JMT is east of you when it is actually west.
Common areas where people get lost is where there are many trail junctions (esp. near Thousand Island Lakes to Reds Meadow where the cross trails are often more distinct than the JMT because more heavily travelled). The trail signage rarely indicates "JMT this way", just the next pass or destination. I don't think you need a precise gps track (or breadcrumb trail) of the trail, but gps waypoints on a device or paper are very useful, always along with a even more useful paper map. A compass is often recommended though I haven't found them particularly useful and a very small one just generally distinguishing the cardinal directions has been enough for me.
The FB mini-survey on where people get lost: for those of you who are also members of the all-year JMT group on Facebook.
--
John Curran Ladd
1616 Castro Street
San Francisco, CA? 94114-3707
415-648-9279
|
Hi Ethan
I was lost twice on the High Sierra Trail due to over reliance on AllTrailsPro. The trails "disappeared" and the pre-recorded AllTrails trail just did not exist. Our Garmin GPS didn't help as well except to indicate our current lat / long. We were able to locate ourselves on a printed map based on that information, trace our way back to the trail, and with the help of the printed map found our way.
John,
Not sure if you include it in your mini-survey, but you might add "method of navigation".? I have noticed many relying on Apps such as Guthooks (now Far Out) getting lost when cell phones fail or just having a lower awareness of their surroundings and where things connect than those using maps or both. Curious if my personal observations are supported by the data.
Ethan
Ethan Gallogly, PhD author of The Trail, an Amazon Bestseller "When you see a new trail, or a footprint you do not know, follow it to the point of knowing."? - Uncheedah
On Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 10:38 AM John Ladd < johnladd@...> wrote: Mostly for people who haven't hiked the JMT before, though others may want to comment.
The annual JMT Hiker Survey has documented navigation as a common problem, reported by 33% of survey respondent in some years, even low-snowpack years like 2014.
The survey participants with navigation problems usually reported it as a relatively minor problem, presumably because they quickly realized that they have strayed off the JMT and backtrack to the point of their mistake. Navigation problems are most common in the areas where lots of trails intersect. Cutting back is much safer than cutting cross country to re-find the trail as in some location it is easy to not recognize the trail as you pass it and then think the JMT is east of you when it is actually west.
Common areas where people get lost is where there are many trail junctions (esp. near Thousand Island Lakes to Reds Meadow where the cross trails are often more distinct than the JMT because more heavily travelled). The trail signage rarely indicates "JMT this way", just the next pass or destination. I don't think you need a precise gps track (or breadcrumb trail) of the trail, but gps waypoints on a device or paper are very useful, always along with a even more useful paper map. A compass is often recommended though I haven't found them particularly useful and a very small one just generally distinguishing the cardinal directions has been enough for me.
The FB mini-survey on where people get lost: for those of you who are also members of the all-year JMT group on Facebook.
--
John Curran Ladd
1616 Castro Street
San Francisco, CA? 94114-3707
415-648-9279
|
Funniest story I heard was from the Ranger at Rae Lakes who said when he asked a hiker where he was going, the hiker pulled out the then Guthooks App and replied, "I'm taking the Red Line to the Blue Line."
Ethan
Ethan Gallogly, PhD author of The Trail, an Amazon Bestseller
"When you see a new trail, or a footprint you do not know, follow it to the point of knowing."? - Uncheedah
Hi Ethan
I was lost twice on the High Sierra Trail due to over reliance on AllTrailsPro. The trails "disappeared" and the pre-recorded AllTrails trail just did not exist. Our Garmin GPS didn't help as well except to indicate our current lat / long. We were able to locate ourselves on a printed map based on that information, trace our way back to the trail, and with the help of the printed map found our way.
John,
Not sure if you include it in your mini-survey, but you might add "method of navigation".? I have noticed many relying on Apps such as Guthooks (now Far Out) getting lost when cell phones fail or just having a lower awareness of their surroundings and where things connect than those using maps or both. Curious if my personal observations are supported by the data.
Ethan
Ethan Gallogly, PhD author of The Trail, an Amazon Bestseller "When you see a new trail, or a footprint you do not know, follow it to the point of knowing."? - Uncheedah
On Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 10:38 AM John Ladd < johnladd@...> wrote: Mostly for people who haven't hiked the JMT before, though others may want to comment.
The annual JMT Hiker Survey has documented navigation as a common problem, reported by 33% of survey respondent in some years, even low-snowpack years like 2014.
The survey participants with navigation problems usually reported it as a relatively minor problem, presumably because they quickly realized that they have strayed off the JMT and backtrack to the point of their mistake. Navigation problems are most common in the areas where lots of trails intersect. Cutting back is much safer than cutting cross country to re-find the trail as in some location it is easy to not recognize the trail as you pass it and then think the JMT is east of you when it is actually west.
Common areas where people get lost is where there are many trail junctions (esp. near Thousand Island Lakes to Reds Meadow where the cross trails are often more distinct than the JMT because more heavily travelled). The trail signage rarely indicates "JMT this way", just the next pass or destination. I don't think you need a precise gps track (or breadcrumb trail) of the trail, but gps waypoints on a device or paper are very useful, always along with a even more useful paper map. A compass is often recommended though I haven't found them particularly useful and a very small one just generally distinguishing the cardinal directions has been enough for me.
The FB mini-survey on where people get lost: for those of you who are also members of the all-year JMT group on Facebook.
--
John Curran Ladd
1616 Castro Street
San Francisco, CA? 94114-3707
415-648-9279
--
anand
|
LOL.
I have not used Guthook much (except last year on a long section hike on the JMT last year), but I did find it useful campsites and water locations.
To John's original point, yes, the trail between Thousand Island and Reds Meadow is confusing, but thankfully I have hiked Ediza Lake, Garnet Lake area a few times, through many different trails so I was aware of that.
The places I do get lost are when I go off-trail for a bathroom break or at night. The last time this happened, I was at Stanford Point, on the edge of the South Rim there. Not a good place to be walking in the wrong direction.? I need to get better to be aware of where I am at night.
Funniest story I heard was from the Ranger at Rae Lakes who said when he asked a hiker where he was going, the hiker pulled out the then Guthooks App and replied, "I'm taking the Red Line to the Blue Line."
Ethan
Ethan Gallogly, PhD author of The Trail, an Amazon Bestseller
"When you see a new trail, or a footprint you do not know, follow it to the point of knowing."? - Uncheedah
Hi Ethan
I was lost twice on the High Sierra Trail due to over reliance on AllTrailsPro. The trails "disappeared" and the pre-recorded AllTrails trail just did not exist. Our Garmin GPS didn't help as well except to indicate our current lat / long. We were able to locate ourselves on a printed map based on that information, trace our way back to the trail, and with the help of the printed map found our way.
John,
Not sure if you include it in your mini-survey, but you might add "method of navigation".? I have noticed many relying on Apps such as Guthooks (now Far Out) getting lost when cell phones fail or just having a lower awareness of their surroundings and where things connect than those using maps or both. Curious if my personal observations are supported by the data.
Ethan
Ethan Gallogly, PhD author of The Trail, an Amazon Bestseller "When you see a new trail, or a footprint you do not know, follow it to the point of knowing."? - Uncheedah
On Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 10:38 AM John Ladd < johnladd@...> wrote: Mostly for people who haven't hiked the JMT before, though others may want to comment.
The annual JMT Hiker Survey has documented navigation as a common problem, reported by 33% of survey respondent in some years, even low-snowpack years like 2014.
The survey participants with navigation problems usually reported it as a relatively minor problem, presumably because they quickly realized that they have strayed off the JMT and backtrack to the point of their mistake. Navigation problems are most common in the areas where lots of trails intersect. Cutting back is much safer than cutting cross country to re-find the trail as in some location it is easy to not recognize the trail as you pass it and then think the JMT is east of you when it is actually west.
Common areas where people get lost is where there are many trail junctions (esp. near Thousand Island Lakes to Reds Meadow where the cross trails are often more distinct than the JMT because more heavily travelled). The trail signage rarely indicates "JMT this way", just the next pass or destination. I don't think you need a precise gps track (or breadcrumb trail) of the trail, but gps waypoints on a device or paper are very useful, always along with a even more useful paper map. A compass is often recommended though I haven't found them particularly useful and a very small one just generally distinguishing the cardinal directions has been enough for me.
The FB mini-survey on where people get lost: for those of you who are also members of the all-year JMT group on Facebook.
--
John Curran Ladd
1616 Castro Street
San Francisco, CA? 94114-3707
415-648-9279
--
anand
|
Re On Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 10:47 AM, Ethan wrote:
John,
?
Not sure if you include it in your mini-survey, but you might add "method of navigation".? I have noticed many relying on Apps such as Guthooks (now Far Out) getting lost when cell phones fail or just having a lower awareness of their surroundings and where things connect than those using maps or both. Curious if my personal observations are supported by the data.
?
Ethan
The FB mini survey was done years ago. The annual survey has had the same questions since at least 2016 (with lots of overlap in 2014 and 2015) and I would hate to change them if I decide to continue the Survey into 2022. In any case, 2021 may have been the last year of the survey since I don't think 2022 would add much to 2014-21 (which already provide a variety of differing challenges). Maybe someone else can take it over, and modify the questions in light of experience in about 5 years to add a greater longitudinal aspect to the survey ? -- John Curran Ladd1616 Castro StreetSan Francisco, CA? 94114-3707415-648-9279
|
Must have been down in Los Angeles or San Diego for those train
routes.
Two Dogs
On 2/12/2022 12:19, Ethan wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Funniest story I heard was from the Ranger at Rae
Lakes who said when he asked a hiker where he was going, the
hiker pulled out the then Guthooks App and replied, "I'm taking
the Red Line to the Blue Line."
Ethan
Ethan Gallogly, PhD
author of The Trail, an Amazon Bestseller
"When you see a new
trail, or a footprint you do not know, follow it to the
point of knowing."? - Uncheedah
Hi Ethan
I was lost twice on the High Sierra Trail due to over
reliance on AllTrailsPro. The trails "disappeared" and the
pre-recorded AllTrails trail just did not exist. Our
Garmin GPS didn't help as well except to indicate our
current lat / long. We were able to locate ourselves on a
printed map based on that information, trace our way back
to the trail, and with the help of the printed map found
our way.
John,
Not sure if you include it in your mini-survey, but
you might add "method of navigation".? I have noticed
many relying on Apps such as Guthooks (now Far Out)
getting lost when cell phones fail or just having a
lower awareness of their surroundings and where things
connect than those using maps or both. Curious if my
personal observations are supported by the data.
Ethan
Ethan Gallogly, PhD
author of The Trail, an Amazon Bestseller
"When you see a new trail, or a
footprint you do not know, follow it to the point
of knowing."? - Uncheedah
On Sat, Feb 12, 2022
at 10:38 AM John Ladd < johnladd@...>
wrote:
Mostly for people who haven't hiked the JMT before, though others may want to comment.
The annual JMT Hiker Survey has documented navigation as a common problem, reported by 33% of survey respondent in some years, even low-snowpack years like 2014.
The survey participants with navigation problems usually reported it as a relatively minor problem, presumably because they quickly realized that they have strayed off the JMT and backtrack to the point of their mistake. Navigation problems are most common in the areas where lots of trails intersect. Cutting back is much safer than cutting cross country to re-find the trail as in some location it is easy to not recognize the trail as you pass it and then think the JMT is east of you when it is actually west.
Common areas where people get lost is where there are many trail junctions (esp. near Thousand Island Lakes to Reds Meadow where the cross trails are often more distinct than the JMT because more heavily travelled). The trail signage rarely indicates "JMT this way", just the next pass or destination. I don't think you need a precise gps track (or breadcrumb trail) of the trail, but gps waypoints on a device or paper are very useful, always along with a even more useful paper map. A compass is often recommended though I haven't found them particularly useful and a very small one just generally distinguishing the cardinal directions has been enough for me.
The FB mini-survey on where people get lost: for those of you who are also members of the all-year JMT group on Facebook.
--
John
Curran Ladd
1616
Castro Street
San
Francisco, CA? 94114-3707
415-648-9279
--
anand
|
My first JMT hike (NOBO) I went off trail twice. ? I followed the guitar lake outlet over slabs down to to Timberline lake. ?I wasn¡¯t lost, but I had lost the trail. ?Ironically I ran into the Crabtree Ranger going up that way which he described as a ¡°shortcut¡±. I also walked off trail below Donahue again on slab granite and had to backtrack a bit. ?When the trail crosses granite I now scout ahead to make sure I see signs of the trail. ? On trail intersections I have learned to walk in a circle and inspect all the signs and often check compass and map. Those 2 minutes can save a big headache.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 12, 2022, at 10:38 AM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
? Mostly for people who haven't hiked the JMT before, though others may want to comment.
The annual JMT Hiker Survey has documented navigation as a common problem, reported by 33% of survey respondent in some years, even low-snowpack years like 2014.
The survey participants with navigation problems usually reported it as a relatively minor problem, presumably because they quickly realized that they have strayed off the JMT and backtrack to the point of their mistake. Navigation problems are most common in the areas where lots of trails intersect. Cutting back is much safer than cutting cross country to re-find the trail as in some location it is easy to not recognize the trail as you pass it and then think the JMT is east of you when it is actually west.
Common areas where people get lost is where there are many trail junctions (esp. near Thousand Island Lakes to Reds Meadow where the cross trails are often more distinct than the JMT because more heavily travelled). The trail signage rarely indicates "JMT this way", just the next pass or destination. I don't think you need a precise gps track (or breadcrumb trail) of the trail, but gps waypoints on a device or paper are very useful, always along with a even more useful paper map. A compass is often recommended though I haven't found them particularly useful and a very small one just generally distinguishing the cardinal directions has been enough for me.
The FB mini-survey on where people get lost: for those of you who are also members of the all-year JMT group on Facebook.
--
John Curran Ladd
1616 Castro Street
San Francisco, CA? 94114-3707
415-648-9279
|
On Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 02:19 PM, Ethan wrote:
"I'm taking the Red Line to the Blue Line."
LOL .. Here in Washington DC, you would need to go to the Metro Center stop near the White House to transfer from the red line to the blue line train!?
|
John Ladd
Derek Koonce
ravi_jmt2013