Re: Attracting young people; where did that anxiety arise?
#Youth
What ever you just don¡¯t want the likes of the M3s M6s and 2E0 all because you done your city& guilds I¡¯d have liked to have done that but at 63 I think it a lot to take in yes the younger generation might be able to do it but not people like my self
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Show quoted text
On Oct 16, 2019, at 14:24, Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339 via Groups.Io <headstone255@...> wrote:
?On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 02:05 PM, peter davies wrote:
Yes it is the RSGB that brought the foundation intermediate into being to
bring a dying hobby back to life now you know it alls want rid of us not all
M3s and M6s 2E0 play up on the radio there¡¯s full license holders play up
too I know one that does it I for one don¡¯t and I can only speak for my self
it¡¯s all the old timers like your self oh we don¡¯t need M3 M6 and 2E0s but
it¡¯s us that¡¯s brought a dying hobby back from the pits
Amateur radio has never been dying. Who told you that?
As to those who denigrate we older people, I challenge all of you not to
be 24 hours older than you were this time yesterday :-)
|
Re: Attracting young people; where did that anxiety arise?
#Youth
Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 02:05 PM, peter davies wrote:
Yes it is the RSGB that brought the foundation intermediate into being to
bring a dying hobby back to life now you know it alls want rid of us not all
M3s and M6s 2E0 play up on the radio there¡¯s full license holders play up
too I know one that does it I for one don¡¯t and I can only speak for my self
it¡¯s all the old timers like your self oh we don¡¯t need M3 M6 and 2E0s but
it¡¯s us that¡¯s brought a dying hobby back from the pits
Amateur radio has never been dying. Who told you that? As to those who denigrate we older people, I challenge all of you not to be 24 hours older than you were this time yesterday :-)
|
Yes we¡¯ll all you old one wouldn¡¯t reflect the reality on the 21st century but if this goes ahead Raynet will loose a lot of members and so will the RSGB there¡¯s a lot of old boys just happy with the M3 and M6
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On Oct 16, 2019, at 14:16, Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339 via Groups.Io <headstone255@...> wrote:
?On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 11:13 AM, Pete M0PSX wrote:
Gareth,
Thanks for outlining your stance. My stance is that I believe that the hobby
has changed significantly since the days when much of this applied, and this
does not reflect the realities of amateur radio in the 21st century. I suspect
a debate on our very different stances would be counter-productive, so I'll
say no more.
What would be interesting to understand from you, is your stance regarding the
future of the hobby. Discussion of this is one of the aims of this group, and,
together with change, was very much the theme of the RSGB's convention.
Specifically:
How do you respond to the statement that the hobby is fast becoming
out-of-date, its best days are behind it, we've not kept up with current tech
trends, and that amateur radio lacks "relevance, visibility and appeal"?
How should we go about attracting the type of people you'd like to see
becoming radio amateurs? And are there enough of those people entering the
hobby to ensure its long-term survival?
Do you feel that the hobby should evolve alongside current technology
developments, and be ready for what I gather's being called the 4th industrial
revolution? If so, how could this be achieved?
What activities do you personally do to promote the hobby, recruit the people
that you feel should be becoming radio amateurs, and pass on your knowledge
and experience to others?
Where would you like to see the hobby in, say, 20 years?
Pete M0PSX
There's quite a few challenges there, excuse me if I fail to respond to all of them.
First of all, amateur radio is not a hobby; it's a whole-life technical pursuit. CB
radio is the hobby. For me, teenage interest in amateur radio prompted me to
pursue electronics at Essex Uni from 69 to 72, but I nearly flunked the degree
due to too much time spent in the radio room, 5N73.
I spent my career in electronics and software, but all software after the first year.
Amateur radio has not changed at all, it remains a technical pursuit using
and understanding various technologies to provide radio communication.
Amateur radio has not changed, but the technologies most certainly
have; no longer do we press TV line output valves into use for HF PAs, and
we implement the innard of our rigs increasingly in digital forms, but
we strive to understand the latest developments in the continuing
actions of self-training.
The future of amateur radio is the same as its past; utilising and
understanding technology used in radio communications, and that
is where it should still be in 20 years time.
There is no need to attract people. It is only the concern of the RSGB
for its coffers that raises such a spectre.
There's no need to promote amateur radio.It is, and will always be, a niche
interest. What I do for amateur radio is do it, HF QRP CW on 80, 40, 30, and 20,
with occasional bouts of FM on 2M.
As to training, in the past I have given lectures at Chippenham radio club to
assist those facing hurdles of understanding in tackling what was then the RAE.
I have also today offered tuition in this group.
|
Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 11:13 AM, Pete M0PSX wrote:
Gareth,
Thanks for outlining your stance. My stance is that I believe that the hobby
has changed significantly since the days when much of this applied, and this
does not reflect the realities of amateur radio in the 21st century. I suspect
a debate on our very different stances would be counter-productive, so I'll
say no more.
What would be interesting to understand from you, is your stance regarding the
future of the hobby. Discussion of this is one of the aims of this group, and,
together with change, was very much the theme of the RSGB's convention.
Specifically:
How do you respond to the statement that the hobby is fast becoming
out-of-date, its best days are behind it, we've not kept up with current tech
trends, and that amateur radio lacks "relevance, visibility and appeal"?
How should we go about attracting the type of people you'd like to see
becoming radio amateurs? And are there enough of those people entering the
hobby to ensure its long-term survival?
Do you feel that the hobby should evolve alongside current technology
developments, and be ready for what I gather's being called the 4th industrial
revolution? If so, how could this be achieved?
What activities do you personally do to promote the hobby, recruit the people
that you feel should be becoming radio amateurs, and pass on your knowledge
and experience to others?
Where would you like to see the hobby in, say, 20 years?
Pete M0PSX
There's quite a few challenges there, excuse me if I fail to respond to all of them. First of all, amateur radio is not a hobby; it's a whole-life technical pursuit. CB radio is the hobby. For me, teenage interest in amateur radio prompted me to pursue electronics at Essex Uni from 69 to 72, but I nearly flunked the degree due to too much time spent in the radio room, 5N73. I spent my career in electronics and software, but all software after the first year. Amateur radio has not changed at all, it remains a technical pursuit using and understanding various technologies to provide radio communication. Amateur radio has not changed, but the technologies most certainly have; no longer do we press TV line output valves into use for HF PAs, and we implement the innard of our rigs increasingly in digital forms, but we strive to understand the latest developments in the continuing actions of self-training. The future of amateur radio is the same as its past; utilising and understanding technology used in radio communications, and that is where it should still be in 20 years time. There is no need to attract people. It is only the concern of the RSGB for its coffers that raises such a spectre. There's no need to promote amateur radio.It is, and will always be, a niche interest. What I do for amateur radio is do it, HF QRP CW on 80, 40, 30, and 20, with occasional bouts of FM on 2M. As to training, in the past I have given lectures at Chippenham radio club to assist those facing hurdles of understanding in tackling what was then the RAE. I have also today offered tuition in this group.
|
Re: Attracting young people; where did that anxiety arise?
#Youth
Yes it is the RSGB that brought the foundation intermediate into being to bring a dying hobby back to life now you know it alls want rid of us not all M3s and M6s 2E0 play up on the radio there¡¯s full license holders play up too I know one that does it I for one don¡¯t and I can only speak for my self it¡¯s all the old timers like your self oh we don¡¯t need M3 M6 and 2E0s but it¡¯s us that¡¯s brought a dying hobby back from the pits
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 16, 2019, at 13:51, Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339 via Groups.Io <headstone255@...> wrote:
?In the late 1960s in my final years in the state grammar / latterly comprehensive school
system, in a school of 1200 pupils, there were only 3 of us with an interest
in amateur radio.
50 years on, is there any evidence that such small proportions have changed?
It is my belief that the apparent panic and repeated failed attempts to attract young
people (as opposed to those who gravitate naturally towards our numbers) come
only from the RSGB whose concern is not about the good of amateur radio (otherwise
they would have never proposed the Foundation Licence) but about keeping the coffers
filled in an organisation where membership is decreasing, not from a reduction in
radio amateurs, but because the RSGB itself is increasingly irrelevant to
amateur radio. (I resigned in disgust from the RSGB in 1988)
The palpably ridiculous proposal for an easier licence than the CB-like Foundation
licence has, not surprisingly, come from a leading light in the powers-that-would-be in
the RSGB (which organisation I have been deploring for years as the RSCB)
|
Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 11:11 AM, peter davies wrote:
Yes I agree with you about the cb part but like I said M3 M6 and 2E0s feel
like we¡¯re being made to progress and some of us haven¡¯t even got the
brain to take all this technology in I¡¯ve took my 2E0 four time and failed
I¡¯m 63 and it¡¯s a lot to take in it¡¯s ok for all you who went to college
to get your G4 call signs and run the RSGB the way you want it running people
like my self out off the hobby
Where are you based? I'm in Chippenham in Wiltshire and fully prepared to offer personal tuition on the sole condition that once having passed the Intermediate level you go straight on to the Full level without taking out an Intermediate licence. (As I've probably made clear, I regard the licence below that of Full as not being respectable; I have been opposed to the Foundation licence from its inception and I pride myself that I have never QSOd with M3 / M6 /M7 licensees.)
|
Attracting young people; where did that anxiety arise?
#Youth
Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339
In the late 1960s in my final years in the state grammar / latterly comprehensive school
system, in a school of 1200 pupils, there were only 3 of us with an interest
in amateur radio.
50 years on, is there any evidence that such small proportions have changed?
It is my belief that the apparent panic and repeated failed attempts to attract young
people (as opposed to those who gravitate naturally towards our numbers) come
only from the RSGB whose concern is not about the good of amateur radio (otherwise
they would have never proposed the Foundation Licence) but about keeping the coffers
filled in an organisation where membership is decreasing, not from a reduction in
radio amateurs, but because the RSGB itself is increasingly irrelevant to
amateur radio. (I resigned in disgust from the RSGB in 1988)
The palpably ridiculous proposal for an easier licence than the CB-like Foundation
licence has, not surprisingly, come from a leading light in the powers-that-would-be in
the RSGB (which organisation I have been deploring for years as the RSCB)
|
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 01:30 AM, Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339 wrote:
I challenge all my naysayers that surely now as adults
with adult job qualifications that they are not going to be outdone
by unqualified 14-year-olds?
I certainly would employ a person without qualifications but not at 14 because of the age limits on full time work, but post 16, yes! My profession is information security. I was one of the original founders of the professional institution in that field of work, the Chartered Institute of Information Security Professionals,?IISP: It is often the case that keen youngsters with a number of years' experience of code hacking at home will make excellent penetration testers. Often better than many with degree level qualifications, many of whom need a lot of training. Of course, as an employer I would look to my 'no qualification's' employee to gain vocational qualifications (part time training is a legal requirement 16-18) so that they could progress to greater things. There are many in society that are very bright yet do not succeed at examinations for various reasons. These people when placed in the right environment often perform at the highest levels of skill. People without qualifications can contribute?significantly to a diverse security team just as those with a PhD in cryptography! Amateur radio must be diverse and inclusive. Being able to call CQ or to tell somebody they are 59 is not required to satisfy the licence conditions! Any?entrance test?must be focused on knowledge of the actions that are required to fulfil the conditions of the amateur licence. Not the technology and what some might regard as 'amateur practice'. John G4SWX
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Re: New UK Entry Level Licence proposed
#Licensing
Interesting idea but you also need to ask what's in it for Ofcom, as ultimately the decision is theirs? Amateur Radio isn't high on their agenda and no doubt this would cost them time and money to implement.? You need to spell out the benefits of this in terms of their duties and objectives and how this would improve citizens and consumers lives in the UK. I see the big problem with this idea is that Ofcom could point to the various communications methods already available e.g. CB, PMR446, SDR, Zello etc... as all things that achieve the same goal of encouraging communication skills and that they are already in place.
Some posts on here highlight the problem the hobby faces. Yes a 13 year old might not be able to do morse code but they can easily set up SDR, run FT8 or build a Pi-Star hotspot. How many old time hams can do this? Like most things in life the world is going digital and unless Ham Radio adapts it will find itself in the same place as a betamax video.?
|
Gareth,
Thanks for outlining your stance. My stance is that I believe that the hobby has changed significantly since the days when much of this applied, and this does not reflect the realities of amateur radio in the 21st century. I suspect a debate on our very different stances would be counter-productive, so I'll say no more.
What would be interesting to understand from you, is your stance regarding the future of the hobby. Discussion of this is one of the aims of this group, and, together with change, was very much the theme of the RSGB's convention. Specifically:
How do you respond to the statement that the hobby is fast becoming out-of-date, its best days are behind it, we've not kept up with current tech trends, and that amateur radio lacks "relevance, visibility and appeal"?
How should we go about attracting the type of people you'd like to see becoming radio amateurs? And are there enough of those people entering the hobby to ensure its long-term survival?
Do you feel that the hobby should evolve alongside current technology developments, and be ready for what I gather's being called the 4th industrial revolution? If so, how could this be achieved?
What activities do you personally do to promote the hobby, recruit the people that you feel should be becoming radio amateurs, and pass on your knowledge and experience to others?
Where would you like to see the hobby in, say, 20 years?
Pete M0PSX
|
Yes I agree with you about the cb part but like I said M3 M6 and 2E0s feel like we¡¯re being made to progress and some of us haven¡¯t even got the brain to take all this technology in I¡¯ve took my 2E0 four time and failed I¡¯m 63 and it¡¯s a lot to take in it¡¯s ok for all you who went to college to get your G4 call signs and run the RSGB the way you want it running people like my self out off the hobby
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 16, 2019, at 09:30, Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339 via Groups.Io <headstone255@...> wrote:
?By making something elitist, then you give something for those with a
genuine interest in the technical pursuit that is amateur radio something
to aim for and to feel justifiably proud when they achieve the status.
As I said, _ALL_ are welcome to come and join.
I pointed out before that the former "high" standard of the RAE
was passed with ease by 14-year-olds who had not yet gained any
national recognition in the shape of GCE, CSE or GCSE.
I will assume that all those contributing to this discussion have been
through the school system at a time when it was all freely available
to them and I challenge all my naysayers that surely now as adults
with adult job qualifications that they are not going to be outdone
by unqualified 14-year-olds?
Here is my take on what is amateur radio, something that has not
changed for 100 years (but it is too easy to conflate the coffer-filling
needs of the RSGB with the needs of amateur radio) and it reflects
my becoming interested at the age of 10 years old ...
-----ooooo-----
Q. What is Ham Radio?
A. Ham Radio is a technical pursuit for those who
are interested in the science of radio wave
propagation and who are also interested in the
way that their radios function. It has a long-standing
tradition of providing a source of engineers who
are born naturals.
Ham Radio awakens in its aficionados a whole-life
fascination with all things technical and gives
an all-abiding curiosity to improve one's scientific
knowledge. It's a great swimming pool, please dive in!
This excitement causes a wish to share the experience
with ones fellow man, and shows itself in the
gentlemanly traditions of Ham Radio.
Radio Hams are in a unique privileged position in that
they can construct and operate their own equipment! No-one
else has this privilege. Users, such as broadcasters,
the po lice and armed farces, CBers and mobile phone
users have to purchase ready-made gear. Manufacturers
are not licensed to operate their gear. Radio Hams
are qualified to design, build and then
operate their own pieces of equipment. They do this
with gusto, and also repair and modify their own
equipment. This is a privilege well worth the effort
to gain, and one to be jealously guarded.
The excitement that drives a Radio Ham starts with
relatively simple technologies at first, perhaps making
his own Wimshurst machine and primary cells. Small pieces
of test equipment follow, possibly multimeters and signal
generators. Then comes receivers and transmitters. It is with
the latter that communication with like-minded technically
motivated people takes off. The scope for technical
development grows with the years and now encompasses DSP
and DDS. There is also a great deal
of excitement in the areas of computer programming to
be learnt and applied.
The technical excitement motivates Radio Hams to compete
with each other to determine who has designed and manufactured
the best-quality station. This competitiveness is found in DXing,
competitions and fox-hunts.
-----ooooo----
However, beware! A Ham Radio licence is such a
desirable thing to have that there are large
numbers of people who wish to be thought of
as Radio Hams when, in fact, they are nothing
of the kind! Usually such people are a
variation of the CB Radio hobbyist; they buy their
radios off the shelf and send them back to be
repaired; they are not interested in technical discussion
and sneer at those who are; they have no idea how
their radios work inside and have no wish to find out;
they are free with rather silly personal insults.
-----ooooo-----
One infallible way to disambiguate the CB Radio Hobbyist
from the _REAL_ Radio Ham is to solicit their view of the
difference between CB Radio and Ham Radio. A Radio Ham will
perceive Ham Radio to be a technical pursuit and will
perceive CB Radio to be a social communications facility
no different in essence to a land-line telephone or a
GSM mobile in the hands of a 6-year-old. Thus a Radio Ham
could also use a CB set safe in the knowledge that
such use says no more about him than having a land-line
telephone, whilst continuing to regard Ham Radio as a separate
technical pursuit.
A CB Radio hobbyist, on the other hand, sees no difference between
Ham Radio and CB Radio. To him, they are
sisters-under-the-skin. Wrongly, the CB Radio Hobbyist then
tries to classify himself as the equal of the Radio
Ham when, in fact, he is nothing of the kind.
Ham Radio is not CB Radio and has no common ground with it!
Ham Radio is _THE_ technical pursuit for gentlemen; CB Radio
is the name for the operating hobby for those who buy their
rigs and equipment off the shelf.
-----ooooo-----
If you are the sort of person who is motivated by
a technical interest in how things work; if you took apart
malfunctioning clocks, toasters and the like and put them
right despite never having seen them working, then
a Ham Radio licence is your traditional route! There has
never been a shortage of such people, and those who gravitate
towards such an interest have always been welcomed into
our shacks and their interests fostered. There is not today,
nor has there ever been, a need to go out and encourage
and press children, children who have never expressed an
interest in Ham Radio, to come into our shacks. Such an
activity should cause eyebrows to be raised - what
normal well-adjusted adults seek the social acquaintance
of children?!
-----ooooo-----
Please remember that this FAQ is a _POSITIVE EXHORTATION_
to you to exert yourselves to join our fraternity!
|
Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339
By making something elitist, then you give something for those with a
genuine interest in the technical pursuit that is amateur radio something
to aim for and to feel justifiably proud when they achieve the status.
As I said, _ALL_ are welcome to come and join.
I pointed out before that the former "high" standard of the RAE
was passed with ease by 14-year-olds who had not yet gained any
national recognition in the shape of GCE, CSE or GCSE.
I will assume that all those contributing to this discussion have been
through the school system at a time when it was all freely available
to them and I challenge all my naysayers that surely now as adults
with adult job qualifications that they are not going to be outdone
by unqualified 14-year-olds?
Here is my take on what is amateur radio, something that has not
changed for 100 years (but it is too easy to conflate the coffer-filling
needs of the RSGB with the needs of amateur radio) and it reflects
my becoming interested at the age of 10 years old ...
-----ooooo-----
Q. What is Ham Radio?
A. Ham Radio is a technical pursuit for those who
are interested in the science of radio wave
propagation and who are also interested in the
way that their radios function. It has a long-standing
tradition of providing a source of engineers who
are born naturals.
Ham Radio awakens in its aficionados a whole-life
fascination with all things technical and gives
an all-abiding curiosity to improve one's scientific
knowledge. It's a great swimming pool, please dive in!
This excitement causes a wish to share the experience
with ones fellow man, and shows itself in the
gentlemanly traditions of Ham Radio.
Radio Hams are in a unique privileged position in that
they can construct and operate their own equipment! No-one
else has this privilege. Users, such as broadcasters,
the po lice and armed farces, CBers and mobile phone
users have to purchase ready-made gear. Manufacturers
are not licensed to operate their gear. Radio Hams
are qualified to design, build and then
operate their own pieces of equipment. They do this
with gusto, and also repair and modify their own
equipment. This is a privilege well worth the effort
to gain, and one to be jealously guarded.
The excitement that drives a Radio Ham starts with
relatively simple technologies at first, perhaps making
his own Wimshurst machine and primary cells. Small pieces
of test equipment follow, possibly multimeters and signal
generators. Then comes receivers and transmitters. It is with
the latter that communication with like-minded technically
motivated people takes off. The scope for technical
development grows with the years and now encompasses DSP
and DDS. There is also a great deal
of excitement in the areas of computer programming to
be learnt and applied.
The technical excitement motivates Radio Hams to compete
with each other to determine who has designed and manufactured
the best-quality station. This competitiveness is found in DXing,
competitions and fox-hunts.
-----ooooo----
However, beware! A Ham Radio licence is such a
desirable thing to have that there are large
numbers of people who wish to be thought of
as Radio Hams when, in fact, they are nothing
of the kind! Usually such people are a
variation of the CB Radio hobbyist; they buy their
radios off the shelf and send them back to be
repaired; they are not interested in technical discussion
and sneer at those who are; they have no idea how
their radios work inside and have no wish to find out;
they are free with rather silly personal insults.
-----ooooo-----
One infallible way to disambiguate the CB Radio Hobbyist
from the _REAL_ Radio Ham is to solicit their view of the
difference between CB Radio and Ham Radio. A Radio Ham will
perceive Ham Radio to be a technical pursuit and will
perceive CB Radio to be a social communications facility
no different in essence to a land-line telephone or a
GSM mobile in the hands of a 6-year-old. Thus a Radio Ham
could also use a CB set safe in the knowledge that
such use says no more about him than having a land-line
telephone, whilst continuing to regard Ham Radio as a separate
technical pursuit.
A CB Radio hobbyist, on the other hand, sees no difference between
Ham Radio and CB Radio. To him, they are
sisters-under-the-skin. Wrongly, the CB Radio Hobbyist then
tries to classify himself as the equal of the Radio
Ham when, in fact, he is nothing of the kind.
Ham Radio is not CB Radio and has no common ground with it!
Ham Radio is _THE_ technical pursuit for gentlemen; CB Radio
is the name for the operating hobby for those who buy their
rigs and equipment off the shelf.
-----ooooo-----
If you are the sort of person who is motivated by
a technical interest in how things work; if you took apart
malfunctioning clocks, toasters and the like and put them
right despite never having seen them working, then
a Ham Radio licence is your traditional route! There has
never been a shortage of such people, and those who gravitate
towards such an interest have always been welcomed into
our shacks and their interests fostered. There is not today,
nor has there ever been, a need to go out and encourage
and press children, children who have never expressed an
interest in Ham Radio, to come into our shacks. Such an
activity should cause eyebrows to be raised - what
normal well-adjusted adults seek the social acquaintance
of children?!
-----ooooo-----
Please remember that this FAQ is a _POSITIVE EXHORTATION_
to you to exert yourselves to join our fraternity!
|
On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 11:21 PM, peter davies wrote:
G4SWX so what will happen with all the M3s M6s M7s and 2E0 now
NOTHING !!! If you go back and read and listen to what I was suggesting it was a simple?additional VHF only beginner's license. Please put the 'they have hidden agendas' thoughts back to bed................. John G4SWX
|
Re: New UK Entry Level Licence proposed
#Licensing
Hi, I have been following this discussion with some interest and thought you might like a female perspective on the matter. As mother I also understand the next generation and can tell you interest from the younger generation is low. Many younger people are less engaged with people, more engaged with the internet, but they are less interested in what makes it tick. I see the same in young amateurs (although I don't see that many), in that they care less about the radio and more how they access amateur radio. What do I mean by this? Well the hobby is full of old men and radio snobs living in the past, the I had it difficult so why would you get access any easier brigade. You wouldn't believe how duanting it can be for a young woman taking to the airwaves after passing her RAE in the 70's. Other operators were suprised to hear a woman's voice. Some still remain suprised nowadays and that shouldn't be the case. I was treated like second class and even when I go to amateur radio shows now, with my husband I findthat ?it is my husband that people want to discuss radios with and he laughs and says "you are talking to the wrong person, my wife is the ham". How can this be that in all these years so little had changed. The airwaves are quiet because kids think the hobby is boring and it's expensive, girls think they are not welcome and the old farts want to chew the cud and keep it all to themselves as they think they are better than everyone under 60. Many especially think they are better than women. Make the hobby accessible. Clubs need to be online as well as in a room, Skype or facetime or anything to bring the younger people into the room when they can't travel. One day they will make it to the club but they live partially in the virtual world so meet them half way. Open up the club radio for free over the internet for young people to try without having to jump through too many hoops. Don't be precious about what kit they are using when they first start out. So what if they are on a cheap handheld? Encourage them, help them, don't scorn them or mock them and for goodness sake make it up with the CB radio enhusiasts as they are in the same hobby just using different frequencies. In many part of Europe CB and Ham work alongside each other and a lot of people use CB as a door to becoming a ham. This has always happened I know even in the UK to some extent as I started out on CB, that is what got me interested in becoming a ham. Stop talking down to CBers. Use CB as a door. Goodness the ham hobby needs as many friends as it can get. Why isn't the hobby doing more to make itself available? Stop the elites from killing the hobby for all. I feel sure that when the hobby started it was intended that it be open and friendly so where is that now? Lots of questions but few answers. Plenty of food for thought but one thing is for sure, we need a new image and we need to engage on the right terms at the right level not at the level of the old timers. I'm in favour of making it as simple as possible for people with an interest in ham radio to get on the air as soon as possible. I'd love to see more rigs with 10 and 11 meters which could allow a CBer to use the rig on the CB bands and listen on the ham band and when they are ready they could pass an online test and move on to 10meters, that could be a door. If a CBer can use a HF rig on 11mtr why not on 10mtr with a little more newly aquired knowledge? By the way, just to be clear, I resepct the old timers as without them the hobby wouldn't exsist in the first place and that must count for something. I would also add that now I am older, but not yet old :-) I am finding that some of the older women can be just as elitist too so yes, we are creating clones of the previous hams and the hobby is not moving forward as one. Apologies for the long post and any typos.
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G4SWX so what will happen with all the M3s M6s M7s and 2E0 now will their powers be restricted even more instead of gaining members they¡¯ll be driving members away and emergency services like Raynet will be loosing members there¡¯s a lot of M3 and M6s like my self quite happy staying as we are with 10w of power we¡¯ve paid for it I myself do Raynet but if we loose more any of our bands and power I¡¯ll just sell up as will a lot of M3s M6s cause we feel we¡¯re being pressurized into doing something we don¡¯t want to do or some of us can do witch is continue onto the 2E and full license it¡¯s ok for people at the top like G4SWX there driving people away not encouraging them to join M6PDJ
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Re: New UK Entry Level Licence proposed
#Licensing
Says it all, really -? anyone who can use the words "old man" in an email....? I found your posting entirely civil, John, and all your points well made.?
Bob, G8IYK
Need to define a location? Ask for a What3Words address!
https://what3words.com
On Tue, 15 Oct 2019 at 23:20, Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339 via Groups.Io <headstone255@...> wrote: On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 08:31 PM, John G4SWX wrote:
>
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 09:21 AM, Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339 wrote:
>
> >
> > The number of licensees today far exceeds those that existed in those
> > years
>
> The numbers of radio amateurs in the 1950s and 1960s does not matter a fig in
> today's environment.
> What matters is external perception of amateur radio NOT?anything that?radio
> amateurs themselves might think = zero value!!!
> Our ability to preserve the amateur bands depends upon us being able to
> demonstrate value to spectrum regulators in terms that they understand. Not in
> the antiquated concepts of?a very considerable number of?established?radio
> amateurs.
>
> Amateur radio is a broad church. This includes both those that get
> satisfaction from technical challenges; for example the '122GHz and up'
> lecture that attracted over 50 people at the RSGB convention(in my lecture
> stream), to those that just natter on the amateur bands.
> Whether you like it or not, amateur radio, particularly?with the established
> ?VHF/UHF bands *IS* a number of signals on the bands game, *NOT* a technical
> pursuit when it comes to the crunch with spectrum regulators.
>
> At VHF I?follow probably the most extreme technical side of the hobby going.
> I took the RAE in 1969 and took the Morse test, to operate 144MHz EME in
> 1982.?I have designed and built a fully remote 144MHz EME station capable of
> working others with as little as 100W and a 9 element beam anywhere on the
> planet.?I have published construction articles and won several trophys.
> Although some might consider my aspect of the hobby as technically elite?I
> recognise that we need radio amateurs doing a lot of other stuff, be it FM/DV
> repeater usage or APRS to keep the VHF/UHF bands occupied and reduce the
> threat to us losing part or all of them. But I am certainly do not see myself
> as elite!!! *I am a radio amateur.*
>
> I do not respect any radio amateur that sees himself/herself as elite compared
> with a raw new?entrant to the hobby.
>
> You cannot?say in all honesty that those that chat about their haemorrhoids
> on 40 and 80m during the day time pursue a technical hobby! In many ways there
> are many CB operators that?use the radio spectrum for better purposes!
>
> You should have guessed it by now: I see you and your attitudes as part of the
> problem that amateur radio must overcome if?amateur radio?going to have any
> sort of viable future.
>
> John G4SWX
>
No need to get personal, old man.
It should be possible to disagree and yet remain civil.
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Re: New UK Entry Level Licence proposed
#Licensing
Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339
On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 08:31 PM, John G4SWX wrote:
On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 09:21 AM, Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339 wrote:
The number of licensees today far exceeds those that existed in those
years
The numbers of radio amateurs in the 1950s and 1960s does not matter a fig in
today's environment.
What matters is external perception of amateur radio NOT?anything that?radio
amateurs themselves might think = zero value!!!
Our ability to preserve the amateur bands depends upon us being able to
demonstrate value to spectrum regulators in terms that they understand. Not in
the antiquated concepts of?a very considerable number of?established?radio
amateurs.
Amateur radio is a broad church. This includes both those that get
satisfaction from technical challenges; for example the '122GHz and up'
lecture that attracted over 50 people at the RSGB convention(in my lecture
stream), to those that just natter on the amateur bands.
Whether you like it or not, amateur radio, particularly?with the established
?VHF/UHF bands *IS* a number of signals on the bands game, *NOT* a technical
pursuit when it comes to the crunch with spectrum regulators.
At VHF I?follow probably the most extreme technical side of the hobby going.
I took the RAE in 1969 and took the Morse test, to operate 144MHz EME in
1982.?I have designed and built a fully remote 144MHz EME station capable of
working others with as little as 100W and a 9 element beam anywhere on the
planet.?I have published construction articles and won several trophys.
Although some might consider my aspect of the hobby as technically elite?I
recognise that we need radio amateurs doing a lot of other stuff, be it FM/DV
repeater usage or APRS to keep the VHF/UHF bands occupied and reduce the
threat to us losing part or all of them. But I am certainly do not see myself
as elite!!! *I am a radio amateur.*
I do not respect any radio amateur that sees himself/herself as elite compared
with a raw new?entrant to the hobby.
You cannot?say in all honesty that those that chat about their haemorrhoids
on 40 and 80m during the day time pursue a technical hobby! In many ways there
are many CB operators that?use the radio spectrum for better purposes!
You should have guessed it by now: I see you and your attitudes as part of the
problem that amateur radio must overcome if?amateur radio?going to have any
sort of viable future.
John G4SWX
No need to get personal, old man. It should be possible to disagree and yet remain civil.
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Re: New UK Entry Level Licence proposed
#Licensing
On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 09:21 AM, Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339 wrote:
The number of licensees today far exceeds those that existed in those years
The numbers of radio amateurs in the 1950s and 1960s does not matter a fig in today's environment. What matters is external perception of amateur radio NOT?anything that?radio amateurs themselves might think = zero value!!! Our ability to preserve the amateur bands depends upon us being able to demonstrate value to spectrum regulators in terms that they understand. Not in the antiquated concepts of?a very considerable number of?established?radio amateurs. Amateur radio is a broad church. This includes both those that get satisfaction from technical challenges; for example the '122GHz and up' lecture that attracted over 50 people at the RSGB convention(in my lecture stream), to those that just natter on the amateur bands. Whether you like it or not, amateur radio, particularly?with the established ?VHF/UHF bands? IS a number of signals on the bands game, NOT a technical pursuit when it comes to the crunch with spectrum regulators. At VHF I?follow probably the most extreme technical side of the hobby going. I took the RAE in 1969 and took the Morse test, to operate 144MHz EME in 1982.?I have designed and built a fully remote 144MHz EME station capable of working others with as little as 100W and a 9 element beam anywhere on the planet.?I have published construction articles and won several trophys. Although some might consider my aspect of the hobby as technically elite?I recognise that we need radio amateurs doing a lot of other stuff, be it FM/DV repeater usage or APRS to keep the VHF/UHF bands occupied and reduce the threat to us losing part or all of them. But I am certainly do not see myself as elite!!! I am a radio amateur.I do not respect any radio amateur that sees himself/herself as elite compared with a raw new?entrant to the hobby. You cannot?say in all honesty that those that chat about their haemorrhoids on 40 and 80m during the day time pursue a technical hobby! In many ways there are many CB operators that?use the radio spectrum for better purposes! ?You should have guessed it by now: I see you and your attitudes as part of the problem that amateur radio must overcome if?amateur radio?going to have any sort of viable future. John G4SWX
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Re: New UK Entry Level Licence proposed
#Licensing
Hi well I¡¯m new to thinking about getting a license. Very much into messing around with a receiver but am increasingly interested in transmitting. The online course/ exam I feel is a great way forward especially for us young 53 year olds. My other hobby is repairing old reel to reels so enjoy messing around with audio equipment ?
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Re: New UK Entry Level Licence proposed
#Licensing
Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339
On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 07:32 PM, John Summers wrote: I'm rather the reverse Gareth. I spend most of my spare time helping others be
safe and helping children learn new things as a volunteer.
You stated that you would like to see the beginners licences removed to
"preserve the eliteness" but by your other comments it almost sounds as if
would prefer it just to keep out the riff-raff and youngsters. Is that right?
That's precisely the reason I'd avoided RA for such a long time.
As for 14 year olds being on "the threshold of maturity", I've met plenty of
immature 30 yr olds and young carers below the age of 12 who are far more
mature than them.
As someone who as a primary school pupil was reading 'A' level Physics text
books I'd challenge your dismissiveness of the young. Granted 5 may be a
little too young but by 9 I was helping solder together my first computer (a
ZX80).
I fully intend to work through my intermediate and full as soon as I can.
Let's hope we still have some people on the air and we've not lost more
swathes of spectrum due to underused. I do not seek to exclude anyone. In my book, all who have proved themselves to be qualified at what is now the Full level, and who are motivated by what makes things tick and who are mature in their age and their outlook are welcome. All suitable candidates, without exception, are welcome!
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peter davies
John G4SWX
Pete M0PSX
Clinchy