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Shipping overseas?

 

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The prohibition on wooden stuff is likely due in part to things like the emerald ash borer which has caused immense damage to our forests here in Michigan and likely elsewhere.? It supposedly came in on a wooden shipping pallet which went to an automotive plant near Detroit from a supplier in China.? A few years ago I had a bunch of machines and large automotive tools and fixtures built in Germany and Switzerland and shipped to South Carolina.? Like everything else automotive time was of the essence but after the machines etc. were complete and ready to be packed, there were another couple of weeks of delays.? The builders had to wait for specially treated and certified lumber to make the skids, crates etc to allow for shipment to the US.? Even though the lumber was from the shipping countries it was something like 10X the cost of ordinary lumber!

Jack

On 3/6/2025 5:32 AM, Gabor Szucs via groups.io wrote:

That sounds quite bothersome! I'm under the impression that a lot of the documentation/declaration requirements depend on the carrier and service you're using and generally, more established shipping companies seem to be able to abstract the process a lot (although I can't say with confidence that it's the same in the UK, especially post-brexit). In general, package forwarders in the US only require a short abbreviated "laymen's terms" description of the contents that they don't seem to challenge in any way at all (I've brought over instruments, LA and scope blades for the 16700 mainframe, consumer and industrial electronics like servo drives and motors, teach pendants for robots etc., mostly multiple packages consolidated into a single shipment). Depending on the arrangement, duties and VAT was either billed and paid for when placing the shipping order _or_ I got notified by mail with the instructions when the goods reached the country, then after I paid the duties, it cleared customs and it was on its way to me.
Gabor

On Thu, Mar 6, 2025, 11:05 Tom Gardner via <tggzzz=[email protected]> wrote:
Some observations from the UK. TL;DR: fleabay's GSP is wonderful, much better for me than my shipping my sales directly.

When I've bought something direct from the orient, e.g. a BusPirate5 or Digilent Analog Discovery, the courier won't deliver it to me until I pay them 20%VAT/import duties plus ?20 admin fee. Those often make it better to buy from local importers.

Import/export regulations hit more than "electronics". Somebody in the USA put one of my ~100yo Fuller calculators in their fleabay basket, but fleabay wouldn't let them buy it. The reason is unclear, but is probably that I had stated it was made of wood and metal. Apparently the US prohibits imports of wood. I'm glad fleabay prevented that sale, because if fleabay's GSP shippers or US import agencies had detected wood, it would probably have been summarily destroyed without returning it to me. Guess who would have lost out.

As for batteries, it seems that batteries which are an integral part of the equipment don't provoke the shipping immune response. Caveat: I haven't looked at shipping equipment with "modern" lithium batteries, nor recently shipped battery powered equipment overseas, nor "naked" spare batteries.

As with any tree-shaped classification scheme (e.g. Dewey Decimal for books), selecting the customs code is not only arbitrarily complex but also ambiguous and ever changing. ISTR some types of fast Tek scopes with MCP CRTs were classified differently for export purposes: 2465 OK, 2467 sometimes not OK. For the UK, the anti-insomnia "medication" is?


?
For "oscilloscope" that leads to and if you look down several pages you find imports require 20% VAT and in some cases 35% retaliatory duties. Getting those ever-changing duties correct is something that will require vast numbers of customs agents and border checks and/or couriers that act conservatively because they don't want to jeopardise their standing with governments. Wonderful, just wonderful.

No doubt other countries have similar tools.
 

I've heard of such practices, but not suffered them. Are they still doing that?

I do advise purchasers to take photos of unopened packages, and for large packages I keep photos of how I packed them. For a large international shipment I would also send photos direct to the buyer.

On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 at 13:13, Chuck Harris via <cfharris=[email protected]> wrote:
The biggest problem we have had with Ebay's GSP is they
will sometimes take apart large double boxed shipments,
and then ship them over the pond in their inner box without
any padding.? You know the inner box?? The thing one puts on
the instrument to keep it from getting scratched, and to
keep the packing foam from damaging it?

Then, the item, clad only in its inner protective box,
without padding, gets broken, the customer gets pissed,
we get an undeserved negative feedback, and GSP won't
ship the item back, so we lose the item, the payment, and
our reputation all because GSP thought they could save a
little space on the airplane.

And, no, this hasn't been just a one time thing.? It has
cost us in the tens of thousands of dollars at this point.

-Chuck Harris


On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 10:04:49 +0000 "Tom Gardner via "
<tggzzz=[email protected]> wrote:
> Some observations from the UK. TL;DR: fleabay's GSP is wonderful, much
> better for me than my shipping my sales directly.
 

The biggest problem we have had with Ebay's GSP is they
will sometimes take apart large double boxed shipments,
and then ship them over the pond in their inner box without
any padding. You know the inner box? The thing one puts on
the instrument to keep it from getting scratched, and to
keep the packing foam from damaging it?

Then, the item, clad only in its inner protective box,
without padding, gets broken, the customer gets pissed,
we get an undeserved negative feedback, and GSP won't
ship the item back, so we lose the item, the payment, and
our reputation all because GSP thought they could save a
little space on the airplane.

And, no, this hasn't been just a one time thing. It has
cost us in the tens of thousands of dollars at this point.

-Chuck Harris


On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 10:04:49 +0000 "Tom Gardner via groups.io"
<tggzzz@...> wrote:
Some observations from the UK. TL;DR: fleabay's GSP is wonderful, much
better for me than my shipping my sales directly.
 

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It has been a while since I’ve had to use it, but when using PayPal shipping (USPS), have done electronic customs declarations and electronic invoice where I put in the quantity, description, weight, HSTS code, value, etc and had no trouble with. It seems to me two copies went in the external pouch and I put a third inside the box for good measure. It seems to help if their job is actually harder than taking the easy way if every piece of information they could want is readily accessible without opening the package.

Going the other direction, I remember a fun transaction where FedEx lost an e-cal module coming from Mexico to me in the US … after it went through customs. I raised a real stink firm and polite at first and ultimately after sending them a photograph and description of what they were looking for and conveying the sense that they really wanted to find it rather than pay a claim for loss, 13 hours later it was found, and injected into their system as an overnight and I got it the next morning.
 

I received from Digikey five or six parcels during the last weeks without any problems. Each always over 150 Euros.
?
I sent a small letter three weeks ago to the US with DeutschePost containing 2 pregrogrammed gals and 2 programmed flashroms (value 10 Euros) as a gift for the receiver, but it was opened and returned with a remark like '...returned... changed import/customs regulations...'
?
Very strange
?
Ralf
?
?
 


On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 at 10:32, Gabor Szucs via <sniper.asys=[email protected]> wrote:
That sounds quite bothersome! I'm under the impression that a lot of the documentation/declaration requirements depend on the carrier and service you're using and generally, more established shipping companies seem to be able to abstract the process a lot (although I can't say with confidence that it's the same in the UK, especially post-brexit).

I see no reason to believe it is significantly different in other countries. In particular those UK pages note
??? Commodity code in other countries
??? Although many countries have signed up to the same classification system, only the first 6 digits are used worldwide and product specific decisions are particular to each country.
??? If you rely on the commodity code from an overseas supplier, you’ll need to check if the treatment is the same and how much of the code applies in the UK.

As for Brexit, it is mainly a pain for, UK<->EU trade, but otherwise no worse for any other small country. Having said that, there are complications for goods going to/from/through Northern Ireland since that has a big land border with the EU.? That border is traditionally very porous, with some buildings straddling the border. That's far from unique. e.g. see "Pastoor Van Herdegomstraat 19, 2387 Baarle-Nassau, Netherlands", then slowly zoom out until all of Baarle-Nassau is visible. Isn't history wonderful.

?
In general, package forwarders in the US only require a short abbreviated "laymen's terms" description of the contents that they don't seem to challenge in any way at all (I've brought over instruments, LA and scope blades for the 16700 mainframe, consumer and industrial electronics like servo drives and motors, teach pendants for robots etc., mostly multiple packages consolidated into a single shipment). Depending on the arrangement, duties and VAT was either billed and paid for when placing the shipping order _or_ I got notified by mail with the instructions when the goods reached the country, then after I paid the duties, it cleared customs and it was on its way to me.
Gabor

I'm sure that's the case. Pragmatism almost requires that such short cuts are taken. How lucky are you feeling today? Or when there is an increase in "retaliatory tariffs" and "long land borders" :( ?

For the avoidance of doubt, I have not been bitten yet except for the narrow escape I mentioned with the 1000inch mahogany Fuller calculator.



?

On Thu, Mar 6, 2025, 11:05 Tom Gardner via <tggzzz=[email protected]> wrote:
Some observations from the UK. TL;DR: fleabay's GSP is wonderful, much better for me than my shipping my sales directly.

When I've bought something direct from the orient, e.g. a BusPirate5 or Digilent Analog Discovery, the courier won't deliver it to me until I pay them 20%VAT/import duties plus ?20 admin fee. Those often make it better to buy from local importers.

Import/export regulations hit more than "electronics". Somebody in the USA put one of my ~100yo Fuller calculators in their fleabay basket, but fleabay wouldn't let them buy it. The reason is unclear, but is probably that I had stated it was made of wood and metal. Apparently the US prohibits imports of wood. I'm glad fleabay prevented that sale, because if fleabay's GSP shippers or US import agencies had detected wood, it would probably have been summarily destroyed without returning it to me. Guess who would have lost out.

As for batteries, it seems that batteries which are an integral part of the equipment don't provoke the shipping immune response. Caveat: I haven't looked at shipping equipment with "modern" lithium batteries, nor recently shipped battery powered equipment overseas, nor "naked" spare batteries.

As with any tree-shaped classification scheme (e.g. Dewey Decimal for books), selecting the customs code is not only arbitrarily complex but also ambiguous and ever changing. ISTR some types of fast Tek scopes with MCP CRTs were classified differently for export purposes: 2465 OK, 2467 sometimes not OK. For the UK, the anti-insomnia "medication" is?


?
For "oscilloscope" that leads to and if you look down several pages you find imports require 20% VAT and in some cases 35% retaliatory duties. Getting those ever-changing duties correct is something that will require vast numbers of customs agents and border checks and/or couriers that act conservatively because they don't want to jeopardise their standing with governments. Wonderful, just wonderful.

No doubt other countries have similar tools.
 

That sounds quite bothersome! I'm under the impression that a lot of the documentation/declaration requirements depend on the carrier and service you're using and generally, more established shipping companies seem to be able to abstract the process a lot (although I can't say with confidence that it's the same in the UK, especially post-brexit). In general, package forwarders in the US only require a short abbreviated "laymen's terms" description of the contents that they don't seem to challenge in any way at all (I've brought over instruments, LA and scope blades for the 16700 mainframe, consumer and industrial electronics like servo drives and motors, teach pendants for robots etc., mostly multiple packages consolidated into a single shipment). Depending on the arrangement, duties and VAT was either billed and paid for when placing the shipping order _or_ I got notified by mail with the instructions when the goods reached the country, then after I paid the duties, it cleared customs and it was on its way to me.
Gabor

On Thu, Mar 6, 2025, 11:05 Tom Gardner via <tggzzz=[email protected]> wrote:
Some observations from the UK. TL;DR: fleabay's GSP is wonderful, much better for me than my shipping my sales directly.

When I've bought something direct from the orient, e.g. a BusPirate5 or Digilent Analog Discovery, the courier won't deliver it to me until I pay them 20%VAT/import duties plus ?20 admin fee. Those often make it better to buy from local importers.

Import/export regulations hit more than "electronics". Somebody in the USA put one of my ~100yo Fuller calculators in their fleabay basket, but fleabay wouldn't let them buy it. The reason is unclear, but is probably that I had stated it was made of wood and metal. Apparently the US prohibits imports of wood. I'm glad fleabay prevented that sale, because if fleabay's GSP shippers or US import agencies had detected wood, it would probably have been summarily destroyed without returning it to me. Guess who would have lost out.

As for batteries, it seems that batteries which are an integral part of the equipment don't provoke the shipping immune response. Caveat: I haven't looked at shipping equipment with "modern" lithium batteries, nor recently shipped battery powered equipment overseas, nor "naked" spare batteries.

As with any tree-shaped classification scheme (e.g. Dewey Decimal for books), selecting the customs code is not only arbitrarily complex but also ambiguous and ever changing. ISTR some types of fast Tek scopes with MCP CRTs were classified differently for export purposes: 2465 OK, 2467 sometimes not OK. For the UK, the anti-insomnia "medication" is?


?
For "oscilloscope" that leads to and if you look down several pages you find imports require 20% VAT and in some cases 35% retaliatory duties. Getting those ever-changing duties correct is something that will require vast numbers of customs agents and border checks and/or couriers that act conservatively because they don't want to jeopardise their standing with governments. Wonderful, just wonderful.

No doubt other countries have similar tools.
 

Some observations from the UK. TL;DR: fleabay's GSP is wonderful, much better for me than my shipping my sales directly.

When I've bought something direct from the orient, e.g. a BusPirate5 or Digilent Analog Discovery, the courier won't deliver it to me until I pay them 20%VAT/import duties plus ?20 admin fee. Those often make it better to buy from local importers.

Import/export regulations hit more than "electronics". Somebody in the USA put one of my ~100yo Fuller calculators in their fleabay basket, but fleabay wouldn't let them buy it. The reason is unclear, but is probably that I had stated it was made of wood and metal. Apparently the US prohibits imports of wood. I'm glad fleabay prevented that sale, because if fleabay's GSP shippers or US import agencies had detected wood, it would probably have been summarily destroyed without returning it to me. Guess who would have lost out.

As for batteries, it seems that batteries which are an integral part of the equipment don't provoke the shipping immune response. Caveat: I haven't looked at shipping equipment with "modern" lithium batteries, nor recently shipped battery powered equipment overseas, nor "naked" spare batteries.

As with any tree-shaped classification scheme (e.g. Dewey Decimal for books), selecting the customs code is not only arbitrarily complex but also ambiguous and ever changing. ISTR some types of fast Tek scopes with MCP CRTs were classified differently for export purposes: 2465 OK, 2467 sometimes not OK. For the UK, the anti-insomnia "medication" is?


?
For "oscilloscope" that leads to and if you look down several pages you find imports require 20% VAT and in some cases 35% retaliatory duties. Getting those ever-changing duties correct is something that will require vast numbers of customs agents and border checks and/or couriers that act conservatively because they don't want to jeopardise their standing with governments. Wonderful, just wonderful.

No doubt other countries have similar tools.
 

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Even worse when something sent from the UK to the US for repair (under warranty.)

On it's return, we would often get charged full UK duty/taxes etc, as if it was "a New import", even if the US office managed to get the paperwork straight (rarely) AND send it back via the exact same route but in reverse!.?? That's a UK custom's rip-off thing, and there is no way to challenge it for small co's and individuals.

It's as bad if anyone ships from the US to the UK using the USPS.? That is then handled here by Royal Mail.? They add import duties (even if the commodity code indicates low or zero duty) then exorbitant "handling charges", and our 17.5% VAT on top of the lot.

So, something that cost, say, $20 US on eBay, I end up paying over ?100 UKP!? Has happened twice to me.

Then there are the US sellers who list "international shipping no problem", do NOT exclude the UK.? But flatly refuse to communicate, though take my money!?? That's something eBay is good at, getting my hard earned back in those cases.

Oddly, DigiKey can send me a high value (100's of $'s) parts order to my door, overnight, seemingly with impunity and minimal charges!? I forget what they declare on the package.? And no, it doesn’t come from a bonded warehouse in the UK, as it's smothered in stickers and stamp markings indicating it did travel overnight by air!?? So it can be done.

We (in the UK) also now get screwed by our own idiot government since Brexit happened, moving anything between UK and EU (Including Ireland) either way, now costs a fortune and takes an age, as there are not enough people to handle the paperwork.? It's as if they have not heard of doing things digitally.? Hence, there are sellers in the EU who will now not sell to UK buyers.

Worse, a large proportion of our food is imported from, or via the EU.? Result?? High prices, and very short "use by" dates.

"Modern Life" eh...? We're rapidly reverting to being "The Sick Man of Europe" like we were back in the 60's.

And you don't want to know what we pay for fuel and energy in general!

Regards to All.

Dave 'KBV.
 

FWIW have I gotten electronics parts from the US shipped with USPS. Have the rules changed?
 

Make sure to write 'no lithium batteries' on it or it might get returned.? Ask me how I know...


On Wed, Mar 5, 2025, 6:01?PM Roy Thistle via <roy.thistle=[email protected]> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 01:27 PM, Froggie the Gremlin wrote:
Fill out content as "sample parts" value $10
okay, if you don't use the HS code... cause that is optional?
but, then won't the USPS post office...
or worse the German customs...
won't those guys determine what 'import code' ... or 'category' ...the contents fall under?
cause... there are a lot of different duties for 'sample parts' ?
?
?
 

They used to do that, and almost needed to see receipts for camera equipment.

That seems to have stopped perhaps 10 to 15 years ago, certainly, before 2000, IIRC.

Nobody seems to enforce that, not that I noticed.

Harvey

On 3/5/2025 9:13 PM, Heinz-Peter Deutsch via groups.io wrote:
Well, if you send some expensive material (Moduls, HDD etc)
out of the country for repair
you need to declare it before, because this part is coming back,
and so you and the receiver don't pay any fees.

Same when you go to vacation and carry your 1000 bucks camera
or your wife's 2000 bucks neclace with you.
When you come back, you must pay tax and customs for your own goods,
if you don't declare it before leaving the country.

Peter
================
Am 06.03.2025 um 02:09 schrieb Roy Thistle via groups.io:
On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 01:39 PM, Ed Marciniak wrote:

replacement parts, or parts being returned for repair or similar
 

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Well, if you send some expensive material (Moduls, HDD etc)
out of the country for repair
you need to declare it before, because this part is coming back,
and so you and the receiver don't pay any fees.

Same when you go to vacation and carry your 1000 bucks camera
or your wife's 2000 bucks neclace with you.
When you come back, you must pay tax and customs for your own goods,
if you don't declare it before leaving the country.

Peter
================
Am 06.03.2025 um 02:09 schrieb Roy Thistle via groups.io:

On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 01:39 PM, Ed Marciniak wrote:
replacement parts, or parts being returned for repair or similar
 

On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 01:52 PM, Gary Hitchner wrote:
Parcel Post or whatever they are calling ?it now, lowest cost
Yes, generally.
But most countries only allow a small de minimus on posted packages.
Sometimes couriers are allowed much more before duty and taxes are charged... but they have ... sometimes steep...brokerage fees too.
Something that somebody sends you... that is over those de minimus limits... can result in significant duty and taxes being charged.
And, it can depend on whether you post it, or use a courier.
Posting versus courier isn't always cheaper, and vice versa.
It depends on what the declared value is... and what it is declared as too.
Sometimes customs can hold it, and re-access its value, or what it should be declared as... if they think the value... or the description...? is not accurate.
 

On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 01:39 PM, Ed Marciniak wrote:
replacement parts, or parts being returned for repair or similar
not exempt here.
gotta pay duty and taxes
 

On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 01:34 PM, Heinz-Peter Deutsch wrote:
normaly the transporter will do all you
I find that normally the transporter... breakex, or usless postal service... will... unless you carefully pay attention to the customs forms, declaration, and harmonized codes
... they will 'do you'
 

On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 11:44 AM, DF6NA Rainer wrote:
They told me Canada would not
allow electronics
how come?
how do Canadians get electronics?
you can't send batteries... or maybe used stuff with batteries... but electronics... you can
?
 

On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 01:27 PM, Froggie the Gremlin wrote:
Fill out content as "sample parts" value $10
okay, if you don't use the HS code... cause that is optional?
but, then won't the USPS post office...
or worse the German customs...
won't those guys determine what 'import code' ... or 'category' ...the contents fall under?
cause... there are a lot of different duties for 'sample parts' ?
?
?
 

Package forwarders are tough to beat when it comes to small parcels. MyUS ships 5 pounds to Germany through DHL Express with decent tracking for $25-30. I don't know how high the cutoff value is right now, but the receiver might not be prompted to pay duty and/or VAT if you declare them as a gift (especially if they are :) ).

Gabor

On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 10:52?PM Gary Hitchner via <talgarth=[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks for all the ideas on shipping overseas, I will try some of the other definitions recommended on the custom form 1st.

?

I did look into a flat rate box, the cost was about $85.00 for a medium size box. Parcel Post or whatever they are calling ?it now, lowest cost way is about $50.00

Of course these boards from a 8660 have no real value, I used a low value of? $25.00.?

?

Gary

WA2OMY

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ed Marciniak
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2025 4:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Shipping overseas?

?

I’m not sure what German policies are, but in the US, repair/replacement parts are generally exempt. I’d assume for that reason, that some companies have different part numbers for a standalone part ordered as an option and a second part number for the part for repair use.

?

Marking them as replacement parts, or parts being returned for repair or similar might be a solution. It’s ambiguous at best….i mean you are repairing your unit.

?

The main limitation is generally not being able to insure for more than the declared value.

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Heinz-Peter Deutsch via <hpdeutsch@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2025 3:34:16 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Shipping overseas?

?

Well here some examples (before Trump):

If you buy in US something for 100$ & 25$ transport
and use flat rate tax rate, then the receiver in Germany must pay
import tax 22,50�
total = 22,50�
Sum = 140,90� (Goods and duties)

If you buy in US something for 900$ & 100$ transport
and use flat rate tax rate, then the receiver must pay
import tax = 211�
customs? = 166�
total = 377�
Sum = 1325,00 � (Goods and duties)
Is it a mobile or tablet - then no customs and tax a little bit lower
For a monitor you have 205� tax and 133� customs

So it depends on declaration - normaly the transporter will do all you ;-))

Peter
================


?

Am 05.03.2025 um 20:54 schrieb Roy Thistle via :

Not sure if the 'receiver' will have to pay duty, when he gets it in Germany; but the HS code might help determine that.

?
 

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Thanks for all the ideas on shipping overseas, I will try some of the other definitions recommended on the custom form 1st.

?

I did look into a flat rate box, the cost was about $85.00 for a medium size box. Parcel Post or whatever they are calling ?it now, lowest cost way is about $50.00

Of course these boards from a 8660 have no real value, I used a low value of? $25.00.?

?

Gary

WA2OMY

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ed Marciniak
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2025 4:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Shipping overseas?

?

I’m not sure what German policies are, but in the US, repair/replacement parts are generally exempt. I’d assume for that reason, that some companies have different part numbers for a standalone part ordered as an option and a second part number for the part for repair use.

?

Marking them as replacement parts, or parts being returned for repair or similar might be a solution. It’s ambiguous at best….i mean you are repairing your unit.

?

The main limitation is generally not being able to insure for more than the declared value.

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Heinz-Peter Deutsch via groups.io <hpdeutsch@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2025 3:34:16 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Shipping overseas?

?

Well here some examples (before Trump):

If you buy in US something for 100$ & 25$ transport
and use flat rate tax rate, then the receiver in Germany must pay
import tax 22,50�
total = 22,50�
Sum = 140,90� (Goods and duties)

If you buy in US something for 900$ & 100$ transport
and use flat rate tax rate, then the receiver must pay
import tax = 211�
customs? = 166�
total = 377�
Sum = 1325,00 � (Goods and duties)
Is it a mobile or tablet - then no customs and tax a little bit lower
For a monitor you have 205� tax and 133� customs

So it depends on declaration - normaly the transporter will do all you ;-))

Peter
================


?

Am 05.03.2025 um 20:54 schrieb Roy Thistle via groups.io:

Not sure if the 'receiver' will have to pay duty, when he gets it in Germany; but the HS code might help determine that.

?

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