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Looking to connect with other 4396B owners


 

This is my first post to the group, so hello everyone.? You've been a great resource when I've needed to search for information on prospective or actual TE purchases; thanks :)

I recently acquired an Agilent 4396B spectrum/network/impedance analyzer with all of the options (1D5 oven, 1D6 time-gated measurements, 010 impedance measurement) in non-working condition.? The main problem was some stressed SMD electrolytics on the A50 DC-DC converter board, as discussed in service bulletin 11.? There is also something odd in the source assembly, but it seems to be after the ALC power detector; current theory is the semi-rigid coax link from the output attenuator to the bulkhead N connector, or perhaps the N connector itself.? I'm documenting the repair here:



Looking ahead I have a few questions (and will undoubtedly have more as I dig into the analyzer's capabilities):

1) The calibration constants are stored in an EEPROM and updated over GPIB, but as far as I can tell the actual commands and format of the data are not documented.? The only approved way to update the calibration is to use an HP-UX program called "ADJ4396B" running on an ancient HP controller.? Is this likely to be a problem in the long run?? Should I consider sending the instrument out for calibration (assuming the cal lab even has access to this magic software)?? This is for home / hobby use only, so it likely doesn't matter, but I wonder if a window of opportunity is closing as these units get older and the last support is dropped.

2) Has anyone actually laid eyes (or camera) on the insides of the 43961A impedance test fixture?? I have no need for it except curiosity, but it would be fun to leverage the 010 software in my unit.? It could probably be a worthwhile learning experience to build something equivalent at lower frequencies.

3) Not a 4396B question per se, but what is the currently recommended GPIB interface solution in 2019?? I would prefer not to use any NI stuff or the VISA library, but if that's the price for being able to run useful third-party software (like KE5FX's phase-noise tool), I will.? Although in that case I would still prefer options which *can* work with the VISA library but can also work without them.? Cross-platform compatibility with Linux and Windows would be a plus.

Regards,
Mark


 

At 2019-03-21 02:48 PM, markhaun2000 wrote:
3) Not a 4396B question per se, but what is the currently recommended GPIB interface solution in 2019?? I would prefer not to use any NI stuff or the VISA library, but if that's the price for being able to run useful third-party software (like KE5FX's phase-noise tool), I will.? Although in that case I would still prefer options which *can* work with the VISA library but can also work without them.? Cross-platform compatibility with Linux and Windows would be a plus.

I'll take that as "bait" for a semi--commercial plug for my KISS-488. It looks like a GPIB plug (actually it's contained inside the backshell) but has an Ethernet jack on the back end, providing a web server for your instrument. It can capture HPGL plots, BMPs, or any file format understood by both the instrument and your browser. Works with any web browser whether hosted on Windows, Linux, Apple, or your phone. And it also offers a Telnet interface that allows you to talk directly to the instrument's command interface. It's listed on eBay right now, but I can knock a little off the price if you buy it direct and I don't have to pay eBay fees. I designed it to meet my own need, and I'm selling copies at just a little over my out-of-pocket costs (doggone GPIB connectors are EXPENSIVE! as are PCBs when made in low volume). Contact me offline at SteveHx at HxEngineering dot com for more info without cluttering up the group's bandwidth.

Steve Hendrix


 

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Hello,

had a lab accident yesterday, so still a bit stressed.


ad 2) nope. But I was told that it uses some kind of transformer, so the block diagram in the service manual is deceptive. I furthermore heard RUMORS of the one for the 4195A working on the 4953A if you slinked around with the cables. Sadly, this is all I know - so far, all managed to elude me.


ad 3) NI is the way to go. Buy a PCIe card used, cry about the price (around 200EUR), install Visual Studio and smile.

With best regards
Tam Hanna
---

Enjoy electronics? Join 13700 other followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at 
On 21. 3. 2019 20:48, markhaun2000 wrote:

This is my first post to the group, so hello everyone.? You've been a great resource when I've needed to search for information on prospective or actual TE purchases; thanks :)

I recently acquired an Agilent 4396B spectrum/network/impedance analyzer with all of the options (1D5 oven, 1D6 time-gated measurements, 010 impedance measurement) in non-working condition.? The main problem was some stressed SMD electrolytics on the A50 DC-DC converter board, as discussed in service bulletin 11.? There is also something odd in the source assembly, but it seems to be after the ALC power detector; current theory is the semi-rigid coax link from the output attenuator to the bulkhead N connector, or perhaps the N connector itself.? I'm documenting the repair here:



Looking ahead I have a few questions (and will undoubtedly have more as I dig into the analyzer's capabilities):

1) The calibration constants are stored in an EEPROM and updated over GPIB, but as far as I can tell the actual commands and format of the data are not documented.? The only approved way to update the calibration is to use an HP-UX program called "ADJ4396B" running on an ancient HP controller.? Is this likely to be a problem in the long run?? Should I consider sending the instrument out for calibration (assuming the cal lab even has access to this magic software)?? This is for home / hobby use only, so it likely doesn't matter, but I wonder if a window of opportunity is closing as these units get older and the last support is dropped.

2) Has anyone actually laid eyes (or camera) on the insides of the 43961A impedance test fixture?? I have no need for it except curiosity, but it would be fun to leverage the 010 software in my unit.? It could probably be a worthwhile learning experience to build something equivalent at lower frequencies.

3) Not a 4396B question per se, but what is the currently recommended GPIB interface solution in 2019?? I would prefer not to use any NI stuff or the VISA library, but if that's the price for being able to run useful third-party software (like KE5FX's phase-noise tool), I will.? Although in that case I would still prefer options which *can* work with the VISA library but can also work without them.? Cross-platform compatibility with Linux and Windows would be a plus.

Regards,
Mark


 

2) nope. But I was told that it uses some kind of transformer, so the block diagram in the service manual is deceptive. I furthermore heard RUMORS of the one for the 4195A working on the 4953A if you slinked around with the cables. Sadly, this is all I know - so far, all managed to elude me.
Yes, I believe the general shape of the circuit is known or can be deduced from available literature.? The best summary I have found is here:
? ?(about the 4291A RF impedance analyzer---similar vintage from the same design group in Japan)
But it would be nice to see the innards.? The difficult aspects will be those which cannot be represented in a schematic diagram.


 

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Hello,

well, I am now semi-retired - maybe, if I find another opportunity when some surplus store closes, I will snipe it.


Until then, I can darkly remember that the manual for the 41951A contains a very blurry shot. Maybe this can help you...in principle, I am all game to help out.


Tam

With best regards
Tam Hanna
---

Enjoy electronics? Join 13700 other followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at 
On 21. 3. 2019 23:34, markhaun2000 wrote:

2) nope. But I was told that it uses some kind of transformer, so the block diagram in the service manual is deceptive. I furthermore heard RUMORS of the one for the 4195A working on the 4953A if you slinked around with the cables. Sadly, this is all I know - so far, all managed to elude me.
Yes, I believe the general shape of the circuit is known or can be deduced from available literature.? The best summary I have found is here:
? ?(about the 4291A RF impedance analyzer---similar vintage from the same design group in Japan)
But it would be nice to see the innards.? The difficult aspects will be those which cannot be represented in a schematic diagram.


 

I have opened the 41951A impedance test kit a while ago to see how it was constructed. But there is really nothing fancy inside. Some inductors, a few caps...
I uploaded the pictures if anyone is interested.





Of course these pictures are useless to draw a schematic from it. If better pictures required, I will open the box again. Doing so the first time was quite a hassle because the screws where glued in and extremely hard to loosen.


 

Of course, there is the HP Journal discussion of the design of the 4396B from YHP.
https://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1993-10.pdf


 

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Hello,

this is very valuable - sadly, I am in the middle of the tax war at the moment. Do you mind if I post these to my Instagram to preserve them?


Ta,

With best regards
Tam Hanna
---

Enjoy electronics? Join 13700 other followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at 
On 22. 3. 2019 8:42, Tobias Pluess wrote:

I have opened the 41951A impedance test kit a while ago to see how it was constructed. But there is really nothing fancy inside. Some inductors, a few caps...
I uploaded the pictures if anyone is interested.





Of course these pictures are useless to draw a schematic from it. If better pictures required, I will open the box again. Doing so the first time was quite a hassle because the screws where glued in and extremely hard to loosen.


 

Thanks for the HP Journal link to the 4396A articles!? Hadn't seen those yet, probably because I was searching for 4396B vs 4396A.

Re: the GPIB options, thanks Steve for letting me know about the KISS-488 solution.? I'm still considering my options.? Part of the problem is that the software landscape is a mess.? For many things you need VISA support, which is kind of stupid for what is, in essence, little more than a glorified serial port.? (Before someone objects, yes, I know GPIB is much more than that at the physical layer, but once you are addressing a single instrument, it's just a pipe.? So the cut-out-the-fluff-and-give-me-a-channel solutions, like the Prologix, are quite appealing.)

Another GPIB question which probably deserves its own number,
4) Does anyone know if the GPIB commands in VNA mode are compatible with the 8753?? There are some nice tools out there which support, e.g., grabbing Touchstone S-param files from the 8753, and it would be nice to use those on the 4396B too.


 

At 2019-03-22 12:29 PM, markhaun2000 wrote:
Re: the GPIB options, thanks Steve for letting me know about the KISS-488 solution.? I'm still considering my options.? Part of the problem is that the software landscape is a mess.? For many things you need VISA support, which is kind of stupid for what is, in essence, little more than a glorified serial port.? (Before someone objects, yes, I know GPIB is much more than that at the physical layer, but once you are addressing a single instrument, it's just a pipe.? So the cut-out-the-fluff-and-give-me-a-channel solutions, like the Prologix, are quite appealing.)

By all means, check out the options. I did, and actually bought (and later disposed of) Prologix and several others. KISS-488 takes exactly the philosophy you expressed, just give me a pipe to the instrument. It allows you to do all the configuring via a browser, and also control the instrument as well as do screen dumps that way, and also gives you a straight Telnet pipe to the instrument. I like it a lot better than anything else I've seen, especially for its platform-independence - but of course, I just *might* be a bit biased! <grin>

Steve Hendrix