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HP - a summary of what went wrong.

 

I am, by consequence of the equipment available, a very long time user of Tektronix oscilloscopes. I have several here in my home lab (thank you, Jim Williams). But at my first job as a technician in 1977, I had an HP 1740A 'scope on my bench. I became intimately familiar with it's operation and loved it. I was fascinated by what it could do - particularly the triggering capabilities. Back then the systems on which I worked were built around the NS PACE 16 bit μPs and SSI logic. Using the 1740A was like having an optical microscope into the inner workings of the μP and surrounding circuitry. I've often thought of acquiring another 1740A for personal use, but I can only use one (or maybe two) 'scopes at one time. A mint 1740A is a treasure.

DaveD
KC0WJN


On Mon, Apr 14, 2025 at 18:23 Sam Reaves via <sam.reaves=[email protected]> wrote:
Hello Alwyn,
?
You make some very good points. Decades ago a good friend of mine went to the Gathersburg Maryland USA HP office off of Shady Grove Road to review and look at the then new HP1740A 100MHz scope that my friend wanted to buy for his TV service shop.
?
Kenny was tired of the normal TV shop grade of test and measurement gear so I suggested that he look into HP, as I was acquainted with them from my college and first years work out of school as an EE. This was probably around 1978. That is when we met with HP sales engineer, Jack Molcan. Jack really impressed us as he knew the instrument well.
?
Jack told my friend Kenny to take his demonstrator scope home and he would drop by and pick it up in a week or so as that would give him time to make sure that the scope met his needs.
?
Now that is what I call great sales service! True to his word Jack dropped by (it was a 2 hour drive for him to my friends house) and picked up the scope. On that day Kenny give him an order for a 1740A and Jack delivered it about a month or so later.
?
I will always remember the way Jack handled the sale and his professionalism.
?
I had a few occasions to contact him later in my career and he was always helpful. I still wonder what happened to him.
?
My friend passed on in the late 1980's and his wife told me that Kenny wanted me to have the scope. I still have it and the original box. The scope is still in mint
condition ,works like new and is still in calibration. I still use it from time to time.
?
I could never bring myself to sell or trade it but I have had many offers as it is museum quality. It will probably still be working 47 years from now!
?
Best regards from across the big pond!
?
Sam
W3OHM
 

Hello Alwyn,
?
You make some very good points. Decades ago a good friend of mine went to the Gathersburg Maryland USA HP office off of Shady Grove Road to review and look at the then new HP1740A 100MHz scope that my friend wanted to buy for his TV service shop.
?
Kenny was tired of the normal TV shop grade of test and measurement gear so I suggested that he look into HP, as I was acquainted with them from my college and first years work out of school as an EE. This was probably around 1978. That is when we met with HP sales engineer, Jack Molcan. Jack really impressed us as he knew the instrument well.
?
Jack told my friend Kenny to take his demonstrator scope home and he would drop by and pick it up in a week or so as that would give him time to make sure that the scope met his needs.
?
Now that is what I call great sales service! True to his word Jack dropped by (it was a 2 hour drive for him to my friends house) and picked up the scope. On that day Kenny give him an order for a 1740A and Jack delivered it about a month or so later.
?
I will always remember the way Jack handled the sale and his professionalism.
?
I had a few occasions to contact him later in my career and he was always helpful. I still wonder what happened to him.
?
My friend passed on in the late 1980's and his wife told me that Kenny wanted me to have the scope. I still have it and the original box. The scope is still in mint
condition ,works like new and is still in calibration. I still use it from time to time.
?
I could never bring myself to sell or trade it but I have had many offers as it is museum quality. It will probably still be working 47 years from now!
?
Best regards from across the big pond!
?
Sam
W3OHM
 

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Dear Sam,

You make a very good marketing point, which sometimes gets lost in the corporate stratosphere. Given how difficult it is for salesmen to get access to purchasing decision makers in companies, having awkward company policies is bad business.?

To give examples of behaviour that gets the sales at places I’ve worked at;

i) We had an Agilent sales rep. who spotted some HP microwave synthesisers looking unloved in the corner of one of our labs. He asked me about them. I said; “oh they just don’t power up and they’re pretty vintage”. “No problem", he said- "we get lots of trade-ins and we can probably find some power supplies for them” We sent them over to Agilent and back they came working and recalibrated at very reasonable cost.

ii) I was meeting with a Tek sales rep. who asked me about a Tek. multi-meter on my desk. “Came as a free gift with a recent Tek order", I said, "but failed after a few months".”That won’t do”, he said- "I’ll fix it”. He did, and posted it back to me about a week later.

iii) We had an old R&S microwave synthesizer that was dropping lock. We rang the sales office to arrange shipping and a repair. The same afternoon, I had a call from their sales rep. “I heard you needed a repair and I was in London, so I dropped by and collected the synthesizer.” And he brought it back, repaired, a few weeks later.

What each of these sales reps. was doing was building the relationship with their customers- all of them got 7 to 8 figure amounts of business from us.

With Keysight these days there is a good relationship with the technical divisions and a business-like relationship with the sales reps., but less close than before. I think Keysight's selling of many cheaper items through re-sellers is losing them valuable customer intelligence. The good news is that Keysight have a number of products which are simply the highest performance obtainable, I just wish they looked as stylish as their price tag.

Regards,

Alwyn

_____________________________________________________

Alwyn Seeds, Director
SynOptika Ltd.,
114 Beaufort Street,
London,
SW3 6BU,
England.


SynOptika Ltd., Registered in England and Wales: No. 04606737
Registered Office: 114 Beaufort Street, London, SW3 6BU, United Kingdom.
_____________________________________________________
 

Yes, that book is great. The chapter where Carly is late for dinner at Bill Hewlett's is priceless and tells volumes about the differences between their two management styles. There is also a story about how they lost $4M on a project where Bill is in on the meeting where they discuss?the project. You have to read the book to see how that story ended.?

I am sure that Bill and Dave have rolled over several times due to what their successors have done with their company.?
The most ridiculous one is we as private engineers or small companies can not buy instruments from Keysight. I had an account for years where I could buy parts and they would bill me. What they don't realize is that Keysight has lost the formula where people like us who probably also work for big companies have a huge influence on what instruments we will recommend. Unfortunately?for them I can no longer recommend Keysight as the vendor of choice, just like Rohde & Schwarz.

Sam Reaves
ARS W3OHM
Staff Scientist Andritz Rolls Global Research Center (RETIRED)
 

Discussion reminds of a book I read. Bill and Dave, How Hewlett and Packard built the World's greatest Company. by Michale S. Malone.
The book goes into a lot of the details discussed here and very well written.
Gary
WA2OMY

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Froggie the Gremlin via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2025 6:48 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP - a summary of what went wrong.

Carly got ~ 400M $ golden parachute for destroying a pioneering US engineering andf electronics firm, started by Hewlett and Packard in a Silicon Valley garage.

j
 

Carly got ~ 400M $ golden parachute for destroying a pioneering US engineering andf electronics firm, started by Hewlett and Packard in a Silicon Valley garage.

j
 

I was present at a speech Princess Fiorina gave to some troops. It was one of the things that helped me to decide to leave. Bill and Dave made simple statements that enabled everybody to help steer in the desired direction. Fiorina beautifully delivered obscure MBA speak that left people mystified and asking each other what it meant.

Fiorina was indeed atrocious, however...?

For several years the zeitgeist (originating in the board and diffusing downwards) was that a "50:50" company was desirable. That was shorthand for $50e9 annual turnover and 50e3 employees, presumably derived from some dubious MBA calculations. It implied employee layoffs and/or company split. It also implied focussing on the medium term. Consequently HPLabs fell out of favour, with statements being "why should we pay so much when we could simply use that money to buy a small company with a successful product".?

Consequently HPLabs was forced to gamble on a small number of high-risk high-payoff concepts (e.g. conpletely new classes of computer concepts centred on memristors), and inevitably failed.

After ousting Fiorina, the board implemented the "buy small successful company several times", and my, didn't that turn out well (for lawyers, that is).

Fiorina's record at HP was sufficient for her to convince herself to run for president. She got nowhere, I presume because too many people quietly discussed how she had behaved and her lack of success. Times change, but that's not a subject for here.


On Sun, 13 Apr 2025 at 02:05, jim via <ab7vf=[email protected]> wrote:
Carly Fiorina (where is she now?) did exactly what the Board of Directors TOLD her to do...no more-no less.

On Saturday, April 12, 2025 at 04:53:35 PM PDT, RFI-EMI-GUY <rhyolite@...> wrote:
Two words: Carly Fiorina. Lets not forget her, a TERRIBLE CEO! I had stock in the HP company which was at the time a Test and Measurement company that served many industries. It was a well known and respected company. The HP computers and printers were solely to support automation of the T&M market. They made superb products. The introduction of Compaq was sort of a dilution of the product reputation. The spinoffs ruined the company value and upset the product market. I lost a ton of money on the HP stock and the spinoff. The stock value plummeted. It was a ripoff of shareholder equity.

 

I think you got that backwords. It was her deal (Compaq Acquisition)? , the BOD and HP family resisted it, and in the end the BOD ousted her.
?
On Sat, Apr 12, 2025 at 09:05 PM, jim wrote:
?
Carly Fiorina (where is she now?) did exactly what the Board of Directors TOLD her to do...no more-no less.
?
On Saturday, April 12, 2025 at 04:53:35 PM PDT, RFI-EMI-GUY <rhyolite@...> wrote:
?
?
Two words: Carly Fiorina. Lets not forget her, a TERRIBLE CEO! I had stock in the HP company which was at the time a Test and Measurement company that served many industries. It was a well known and respected company. The HP computers and printers were solely to support automation of the T&M market. They made superb products. The introduction of Compaq was sort of a dilution of the product reputation. The spinoffs ruined the company value and upset the product market. I lost a ton of money on the HP stock and the spinoff. The stock value plummeted. It was a ripoff of shareholder equity.
?
?
?
?
?
?
On Sat, Apr 12, 2025 at 09:05 PM, jim wrote:
Carly Fiorina
 

Carly Fiorina (where is she now?) did exactly what the Board of Directors TOLD her to do...no more-no less.

On Saturday, April 12, 2025 at 04:53:35 PM PDT, RFI-EMI-GUY <rhyolite@...> wrote:


Two words: Carly Fiorina. Lets not forget her, a TERRIBLE CEO! I had stock in the HP company which was at the time a Test and Measurement company that served many industries. It was a well known and respected company. The HP computers and printers were solely to support automation of the T&M market. They made superb products. The introduction of Compaq was sort of a dilution of the product reputation. The spinoffs ruined the company value and upset the product market. I lost a ton of money on the HP stock and the spinoff. The stock value plummeted. It was a ripoff of shareholder equity.
?
?
?
?
?
?
 

Two words: Carly Fiorina. Lets not forget her, a TERRIBLE CEO! I had stock in the HP company which was at the time a Test and Measurement company that served many industries. It was a well known and respected company. The HP computers and printers were solely to support automation of the T&M market. They made superb products. The introduction of Compaq was sort of a dilution of the product reputation. The spinoffs ruined the company value and upset the product market. I lost a ton of money on the HP stock and the spinoff. The stock value plummeted. It was a ripoff of shareholder equity.
?
?
?
?
?
?
 

Hi Don,
At first I thought you were referring to the years I was at HP (77-2002).? Things were fell apart on the instrument side at that time as well.??
I enjoyed working in the customer service center where it was a full repair and cal operation.? ?We could fix everything to the component level.? ? ?Rarely was a board replaced.??Then the instruments became assy level repair.? The 8753 was the first one that I recall but there were others like the 8920 etc.? ?Also fixed prices were established some where in there.? ? ? There was a fixed price for a repair, repair and cal and just cal and also a mini-repair price if the issue was very simple.? ? The cost of the assys were crazy.? ? Component level repair was no longer possible.? ?
Then the rep/cal facility became a cal only "hub".? ?If a repair was needed the instrument was shipped to Roseville, CA.? ? Also an on-site calibration service began.? ? The on-site cal work was too much like the stuff I hated to do in the air force were we traveled hours to get to a site and hours to get back to the base and 8 hours on the site.? Having to stay in a hotel away from home was not for me.? ? I hung on for a few more years in the power supply division.? ?After I left the power supply division,? the ex-repair / cal-only center was shut down and moved to PA and the entire facility was sold off.? The power supply div engineering / marketing dept moved somewhere close by and manufacturing was moved off-shore.? ?
Pete? ? ?
 

Hi Don:

In my mind the real HP is Agilent/Keysight.? The company called HP is the computer spin off.

--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke

axioms:
1. The extent to which you can fix or improve something will be limited by how well you understand how it works.
2. Everybody, with no exceptions, holds false beliefs.
 

Please check this link for a description of a breakdown of HP’s process to destroying a great company.
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Don Bitters

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