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It was mentioned that there is an LCD replacement available for a tired CRT
used in the 8568 and 8566 series.
I use an external Tektronix X-Y-Z display which is OK but is there an LCD
X-Y-Z device available for a reasonable price, or a way to adapt a computer
display to work with the three outputs provided by the display unit?
Since storage and graticle lines are provided by the display unit, it
shouldn't be too difficult.

Stuart K6YAZ
Los Angeles, CA

Hi
for the LCD CRT replacement kit take a look at the link below. Good
but WAY TOO EXPENSIVE!!!


Best regards
Sotiris Pdmtr

In hp_agilent_equipment@..., k6yaz@... wrote:

It was mentioned that there is an LCD replacement available for a

tired CRT

used in the 8568 and 8566 series.
I use an external Tektronix X-Y-Z display which is OK but is there

an LCD

X-Y-Z device available for a reasonable price, or a way to adapt a

computer

display to work with the three outputs provided by the display unit?
Since storage and graticle lines are provided by the display unit,

it

shouldn't be too difficult.

Stuart K6YAZ
Los Angeles, CA

On Sunday 14 January 2007 13:40, k6yaz@... wrote:

It was mentioned that there is an LCD replacement available for a tired CRT
used in the 8568 and 8566 series.
I use an external Tektronix X-Y-Z display which is OK but is there an LCD
X-Y-Z device available for a reasonable price, or a way to adapt a computer
display to work with the three outputs provided by the display unit?

If there is interest in it, I think I could kit a bunch of X-Y-Z to VGA units
(a small box with 15 pin VGA connector, an RS-232 connector for setup, three
BNCs, and a 12V supply input). The cost would be in vicinity of $500 as far
as I can tell. Possibly subsequent units (after first 10) could cost less.

What would be a typical X/Y bandwidth such displays are expected to have? I'd
be using 10 bit A/D converters on all channels (X,Y,Z), all with same
bandwidth, but what's the bandwidth is the question.

The output would be scaled to a standard 1024x768 or 1280x1024 resolution, the
signals would be generated in FPGA (no stock graphics controller etc).

There would be a limited color-programmability, likely a bunch (4 or 8)
rectangular areas could have non-default colors, and possibly a
digital "color switch" input could be provided as well. This is limited by
how many quad comparators (x0,x1,y0,y1) I can squeeze into a cost-efficient
FPGA.

If I could get 10 "serious enough" potential buyers, I'd go ahead and get it
rolling.

Cheers, Kuba

On Sunday 14 January 2007 14:50, Sotiris wrote:

Hi
for the LCD CRT replacement kit take a look at the link below. Good
but WAY TOO EXPENSIVE!!!

I don't think so. They had to develop custom electronics to read the display
memory and feed it to the LCD, with colors applied. I'd say that's a *very*
fair price. Considering that a dead CRT makes those devices less useful (not
totally dead, but still), I wouldn't object to such a price, if I used the
unit for business.

I have a feel for how much work it'd take to develop such a unit, and given
their volume and a need for at least *some* profit, they sell it for a fair
price, IMHO.

To figure if it's worth it, think about whether you could afford a similar,
brand new instrument, for the price of the old one, the kit, and your time
(or someone else's service) to bring it up to spec.

Cheers, Kuba

The problem is, I think you have to compare it to what it costs to buy another complete 8566/8568 display. Often, less than $1000 will get you one of those with a usable (if not perfect) CRT.

I think it's a great modification, but I also think they'd do better if they targeted the 8560 portables, too. Those don't go for less than $4K in any condition.

-- john, KE5FX

It is a pity theydon't make a cheaper monochrome replacement screen.
As John said you can pick up a good display on the big auction for
~$500

Marks.
VK2HMC.

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "John Miles"
<jmiles@...> wrote:

The problem is, I think you have to compare it to what it costs to

buy another complete 8566/8568 display. Often, less than $1000 will
get you one of those with a usable (if not perfect) CRT.

I think it's a great modification, but I also think they'd do

better if they targeted the 8560 portables, too. Those don't go for
less than $4K in any condition.

-- john, KE5FX

-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...]On Behalf Of Kuba Ober
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 5:31 AM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP8568B CRT replacement

question

LCD?


On Sunday 14 January 2007 14:50, Sotiris wrote:

Hi
for the LCD CRT replacement kit take a look at the link below.

Good

but WAY TOO EXPENSIVE!!!

I don't think so. They had to develop custom electronics to read

the display

memory and feed it to the LCD, with colors applied. I'd say that's

a *very*

fair price. Considering that a dead CRT makes those devices less

useful (not

totally dead, but still), I wouldn't object to such a price, if I

used the

unit for business.

I have a feel for how much work it'd take to develop such a unit,

and given

their volume and a need for at least *some* profit, they sell it

for a fair

price, IMHO.

To figure if it's worth it, think about whether you could afford a

similar,

brand new instrument, for the price of the old one, the kit, and

your time

(or someone else's service) to bring it up to spec.

Cheers, Kuba

Hi
Exactly that was the base of my comments on the price of te LCD
replacement...
When I saw it at first, I was almost ready to buy it... and then I
asked about the price of it. :((
~1800U$ plus shipping to Greece... make it go up to 2K's that is
almost 1650 Euros...
then I've done the maths...
Got two Display units 85662A, one with an almost brand new CRT and
one that had run a lot, but it is still at a real good working
condition, without any signs of failing CRT. Not expected soon at
least!
So lets say the second one has at least 2000 hours before I 'll start
worrie about repairing it... Now I take measures with that analyzer
almost every 2nd day. It is powered for 2-4 hours its time, for
production testing... Say 3 hours average... or better, 2 hours EVERY
day! These figure shows that I got 1000 days left. If you exclude the
weekends on a year basis, then these is aproximatelly 3 working
years!
The 8568B I have it on, cost me 1250 Euros complete, with the
shipping to GREECE! If i need 1650 Euros to replace the CRT only,
plus the repairing time needed, then anyone can understand that it
would be better (and more economical of course) to buy another
complete set! Not even considering to use John Miles guide to restore
tube for at least 800 hours (meaning 1.5 years more?) after complete
failure of it!
Second opton is to buy two 85662A Display units and keep them for
replacement units. That option also is costless than buying 1 LCD
unit.

And Kuba, I also understand very well what this cost and what work
have been put on it. And yes the market isn't so large for it (?),
and that will keep that way, at that price! However, considering that
those displays was used on some of the best selling analyzers (when
you add all the 67,68 A/B, 66 A/B of the 856x series, sold all these
23 years of production run) you can estimate that there is a huge
number for marketing a device like it! But in IMHO it's not a *fair*
price considering all the above... It might be fair on some eyes, but
not to mine!

Best regards
Sotiris


--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "Mark" <marks@...> wrote:

It is a pity theydon't make a cheaper monochrome replacement screen.
As John said you can pick up a good display on the big auction for
~$500

Marks.
VK2HMC.

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "John Miles"
<jmiles@> wrote:

The problem is, I think you have to compare it to what it costs

to

buy another complete 8566/8568 display. Often, less than $1000

will

get you one of those with a usable (if not perfect) CRT.

I think it's a great modification, but I also think they'd do

better if they targeted the 8560 portables, too. Those don't go

for

less than $4K in any condition.

-- john, KE5FX

-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...]On Behalf Of Kuba

Ober

Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 5:31 AM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP8568B CRT replacement

question

LCD?


On Sunday 14 January 2007 14:50, Sotiris wrote:

Hi
for the LCD CRT replacement kit take a look at the link below.

Good

but WAY TOO EXPENSIVE!!!

I don't think so. They had to develop custom electronics to read

the display

memory and feed it to the LCD, with colors applied. I'd say

that's

a *very*

fair price. Considering that a dead CRT makes those devices less

useful (not

totally dead, but still), I wouldn't object to such a price, if I

used the

unit for business.

I have a feel for how much work it'd take to develop such a unit,

and given

their volume and a need for at least *some* profit, they sell it

for a fair

price, IMHO.

To figure if it's worth it, think about whether you could afford

a

similar,

brand new instrument, for the price of the old one, the kit, and

your time

(or someone else's service) to bring it up to spec.

Cheers, Kuba

On Wednesday 17 January 2007 15:15, John Miles wrote:

The problem is, I think you have to compare it to what it costs to buy
another complete 8566/8568 display. Often, less than $1000 will get you
one of those with a usable (if not perfect) CRT.

I think it's a great modification, but I also think they'd do better if
they targeted the 8560 portables, too. Those don't go for less than $4K in
any condition.

I'm thinking of something universal, i.e. a board which can then interface to
any reasonably sized TFT LCD with standard flat panel digital inputs.

Cheers, Kuba

I agree that the cost of the CRT replacement LCD is fair, considering
the work that went into its design.

Alternately, consider what it costs to have these instruments repaired
for business use. We have several (4 at last count) 8566B where I work,
and the minimum repair cost is a flat $3,500. The CRTs are still OK on
those because we have consistently been able to enforce the rule of
turning brightness down when not in use, but I am not sure how much
longer that will last. I can promise you the first one with a weak CRT
will get the LCD treatment.

We do have those repaired not even so much to save on the cost of new
ones (we have a number of newer SA's too, such as 8565E and others)
because for a lot of things we do, they work better than the new stuff.

The FFT driven instruments are great to look at signals, they suck when
you want to look at (and measure) noise.

Didier

Kuba Ober wrote:

Alternately, consider what it costs to have these instruments repaired
for business use. We have several (4 at last count) 8566B where I work,
and the minimum repair cost is a flat $3,500. The CRTs are still OK on
those because we have consistently been able to enforce the rule of
turning brightness down when not in use

Don't do that -- make 'em hit shift-G/shift-H!

-- john, KE5FX

you think that the crt beam is wearing out the phosphor? "ion burns???
i thought aluminized tubes were immune to ion burns?
i have found that tek crts last allot longer then hp ones

Letting the tube run constantly at minimum intensity (low/no grid current)
does prevent burn-in, but it contributes to cathode poisoning. HP warns
against doing that in their manuals, and gives you a way to turn the whole
CRT supply including the filament on and off via those shift-G/H keys.

Aluminized phosphors may or may not have anything to do with burn-in
resistance; I don't know. I've seen plenty of HP and Tek CRTs with severe
burn-in, though.

-- john, KE5FX

I can try that, what does it do?

Didier KO4BB


John Miles wrote:

Forget the previous question :-)

Thanks

Didier KO4BB

John Miles wrote:

(I should've been clearer on that... it's actually shift-g and shift-h
(lowercase). Those are the CLEAR-WRITE and MAX HOLD buttons for the B
trace. Or, use the KSg and KSh commands if you're talking to it remotely.)

-- john, KE5FX