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HP6209B component location layout
I recently acquired a HP6209B, and already have the same manual as the one here in the files section, but it does not include the component layout, as it seems that page was left out during the scan. If someone might have a HP6209B paper manual, could they please take a clear hi-res picture of the parts location page and email or post it to the files section? I think the 6207B is almost identical so a picture of that component layout might also be helpful, if it has better resolution as the one present on the 07B 1970 manual I already have that looks very dark, lo-res and low-contrast, so not very usable at all.
The power supply seems to work just fine, other than on the 12mA scale the meter needle pegs all the way to the left beyond zero, even without a load connected. Guessing probably some resistor value has drifted, so a parts layout might be helpful to have. The 120mA scale seems to work fine after calibrating it (it was reading a bit low). And if I put a 10mA load while on the 120mA scale, and then switch to the 12mA scale it will read around 8mA, even after the calibration. About a second after disconnecting the load the needle will start to move left. Volt scales where reading 5V high, but after a meter zero and calibration they are now reading reasonably ok for an analog meter. One other issue is that the current 10T pot seems a bit stiffer to turn than expected, but is still fully functional. On the other hand the volts 10T 100K pot was replaced with a 50K unit, and the tech even left a note about this inside the power supply taped on top of the main transformer, dated November 1981. The volts adjustment turns with normal feel, and also seems to work fine with this half value pot. Thanks in advance. |
The current through the 100k pot is normally change that to 50k would require doubling the current to 6.4mA. This additional current will show up as an offset on the current meter. The 6207 manual should be close enough to use for troubleshooting. Hugh Gilbert On Fri, Mar 28, 2025 at 8:15?AM Alex via <hpagilentgroup=[email protected]> wrote: I recently acquired a HP6209B, and already have the same manual as the one here in the files section, but it does not include the component layout, as it seems that page was left out during the scan. If someone might have a HP6209B paper manual, could they please take a clear hi-res picture of the parts location page and email or post it to the files section? I think the 6207B is almost identical so a picture of that component layout might also be helpful, if it has better resolution as the one present on the 07B 1970 manual I already have that looks very dark, lo-res and low-contrast, so not very usable at all. |
Besides the effects on the metering, you may want to check the power rating of the volts pot. The original 100 kR value would dissipate about a watt at full output, now about 2 W with 50 kR. If these pots are the big old-school 2 inch diameter types, it should be no problem, but the modern smaller 1 inch ones I think are rated only about 1-2W. That could be why the note was left, to consider it.
?
Ed |
Thank you for the information, that saved me some ghost hunting for drifted resistors in the meter circuit.
Both the voltage and current adjustment pots are Bourns series 3540 which are rated at 2W. Voltage Adj: 3540S-419-503 (50K) There is also another part number on them, which seems to be Tektronix related: 311-0946-00: "Tektronix Test Equipment Potentiometer Precision 10 Turn 50K 5% Lin = .05%, Bourns Part # 3540S-419-503". Current Adj: 3540S-504-203 (20K) And also has: 3100-18S7 but search did not lead to anything related. The replaced 50K voltage adjustment pot has a very thin (about 1/8") shaft, and the current adjustment one has a regular 1/4" shaft. Both have identical looking grey knobs with a black inset despite the different shaft diameters. After comparing them with online pictures of the power supply they are definitively different from the original ones, and only the black meter select switch knob seems to match. Taking another look at those two knobs, they definitively look very Tektronix like and this makes me think that the tech that serviced the power supply might have had access to Tek parts, and chose the 50K and corresponding knob just to make do, and even replaced the knob on the current adjust to match. Was thinking that will now need to ideally find the equivalent 100K Bourns 3540S-419-104 (if that is an actual existing valid number) with the same 1/8" shaft to match the existing knob. But can't seem to get anything on that PN, neither does searching for 3540S-504-104. Instead all I am finding is 3540S-1-104 which is also 100K with the same linearity specs but with a 1/4" shaft. It does come up at Mouser as Obsolete, but they suggest the alternate 3540S-1-104L ROHS part instead for $34. Ebay also has a couple of options at around $20-$25. Seems like not going to find anything with a 1/8" shaft, so by any chance does anybody have a pair of the correct original matching black HP 1/4 inch shaft knobs? |
You will also likely need to replace R12,13 parallel combination ~2K ohm 3W. R13 is a 1/2W trim resistor, this is between a 6.2V source and terminal A7 on? the back. the equation is (6.2V/2k)*100K=310V. This sets the current through the voltage adjust pot and the max output voltage. Hugh Gilbert On Sat, Mar 29, 2025 at 8:34?AM Alex via <hpagilentgroup=[email protected]> wrote: Thank you for the information, that saved me some ghost hunting for drifted resistors in the meter circuit. |
Actually the note left inside the power supply about R10 also mentions R13:
"R10 voltage helipot should be 100K R13 ~ 62K. Replaced with 50K Heli 11/19/81 GPM". I checked the existing R13 and its a 2K 1W 1% (red-black-black-brown, brown). I verified it by desoldering one side and indeed it reads 1.993K. Seems like he was trying to compensate with R13 for the half value R10 potentiometer. So I am wondering if this present setup would still cause the meter needle offset to the left without a load in the 12mA scale, as mentioned earlier? or do I still have some other problem I need to look into? |
For the sake of testing with correct values, I added a 47K resistor in series with the existing 50K voltage pot, and replaced R13 with 62K, but on the 12mA range without a load the meter needle still jumps to the left as before.
I also kind of recalibrated the 120mA scale with about 70ma by adjusting the voltage control for maximum output (now only about 160V) and connected an external resistance load with a 1.5K in series with a 2.7K (both 10W) and an external DMM on the 500mA scale (I did not have the 3185 ohm resistor called for in the "legal" cal procedure). Then rotated the current pot up CW until the DMM would read exactly 70mA, and then adjusted R56 current calibration control so the meter needle would also read 70mA. Then lowered the current pot down CCW for a 10mA reading on the DMM, switched the meter over to the 12mA scale, but it only read a hair under 5mA. If I then pushed the current up by rotating the current control CW until the meter needle would read 10mA, the external DMM would now indicate 13.1mA. If I then remove the load, the meter needle would do a slight twitch and after about a second (not immediately) would start swinging towards the left rather slowly and go all the way down past zero. Pretty much same behavior as it was doing before I tinkered to correct the R10 and R13 values. So looks like something else might still going on here, or am I missing anything? Just replacing R10 and R13 with their more correct values appears will not alone solve the issue with the 12mA meter scale. |
Correction to my previous post: meant to say MINIMUM OUTPUT VOLTAGE after adding the 47K resistor in series with R10 is about 160V, maximum output is still about 320V.
I am checking some voltages around the current meter circuit: the -3V shown on the schematic to be present at one side of R38/R53 measures only -2.29V. Same value at the cathode of CR8 in the bias supply where this voltage originates. Cathode of CR7 has +1.77V. CR7 is a 1N4830 "stabistor" 2.4V @ 100mA. Guessing some sort of reference voltage or early zener diode. On the other hand CR8 is listed as 1N3828 and seems to be a regular silicon small signal diode. The way they are connected in series in the bias supply (for among others temperature stability) I would expect the -3V output to be the sum of the CR7 voltage, plus about 0.6-0.7V additional drop of CR8, so indeed about 3V. But in real life CR8 seems to have a drop of only 0.5V as measured, so do I have a bad CR7 that has gone low from the original 2.4V to only 1.77V? The other bias supply voltages: +43V is at +37.5V, and the +16V is correct at +15.98V. And at the reference regulator, the +6.2V (33) measures 6.43V, the +12.4V (37) measures 12.66V, and the -6.2V (31) measures -6.22V. All voltage readings referenced to +S (same as positive/red output binding post with correct rear jumpers in place). All other rear jumpers where also verified earlier to be in the standard configuration as shown on the schematic. |
I think you will need to select R38, (~30k) section 5-45, it sets the meter zero by canceling the programming current that passes through the current sense resistor. R53,(3k) may need to be changed also. Check here for a manual with schematic. Hugh Gilbert Hugh Gilbert On Sat, Mar 29, 2025 at 4:52?PM Alex via <hpagilentgroup=[email protected]> wrote: Correction to my previous post: meant to say MINIMUM OUTPUT VOLTAGE after adding the 47K resistor in series with R10 is about 160V, maximum output is still about 320V. |
Just FYI, you can use the (much shorter) www.hpwiki.org hostname in that URL.
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-Dave On 3/29/25 19:02, Hugh Gilbert via groups.io wrote:
I think you will need to select R38, (~30k) section 5-45, it sets the meter zero by canceling the programming current that passes through the current sense resistor. R53,(3k) may need to be changed also. --
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA |
I poked around a bit further and discovered that the +43V reference supply that was reading low at 34.2V actually had 14V of ripple on it. After removing and checking C12 a 450uF 85V cap, it was reading 135nF. Replaced with 470uF 100V cap, and voltage came up to 43.4V. Then did the whole volt and current meter calibration, and the 12mA range was no longer pegging to the left, but now rather indicating about 4mA without any load.
Put a 5K 10T pot in parallel to the existing 30K R38 resistor and was able to zero the 12mA range without affecting the 120mA. The pot was reading 2.7K, which I then replaced with a fixed resistor and now the 12mA scale was almost zeroed, only a hair above zero, so left it there for now. It seems that the circuit really wants about 2.4K in parallel to R53 (30K with the 2.7K from the pot) to properly balance the bias on the 12mA scale, but until I can get the proper resistor did for now leave both the 30K and the newly added 2.7K in place. Both current ranges now seem accurate (as much as that analog meter will allow). Tested the 120mA with a 2.5K 10W at 250V and meter showed 100mA right on the money, verified with by DMM also in circuit. Then put a 10mA load and the meter on 12mA scale was showing also almost right on the money. Lesson learned, check the main caps first, you dummy. Also checked C20 (25uF 475V) at the rear output and it read 26uF with 2.0 ohms ESR. Good enough. The C14 main supply cap seems to be good as well, kind of a pain to remove and test, so just read the DC and AC voltage across it with DMM while output voltage was set to 320V. The cap had 334.5VDC and 0.477VAC ripple across it. With the output of the power supply still at 320V and no load, there was about 1mV of AC ripple (on the DMM), and with a 100mA load about the same amount of ripple. I think that it can now be called good to go. BTW needed to slightly adjust the meter mechanical zero so had to remove it, and then while trying to get it back in place was wondering who came up with that plastic mounting clip scheme. What a pain in the rear to make both sides click back in place. |
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