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  1. HP-Agilent-Keysight-Equipment
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Another 3GHz 53132-68003 Chanel 3 option design for the 53131A and 53132A

 

Hi,

I was also looking into these boards to add the 3rd channel and I found
out that all boards on eBay that have more than 3GHz you need to set the
SCALE to 4 otherwise it will not count correctly.

Below are the links for 12GHz and even 18GHz version:

18GHz Model:


12GHz Model:


Regards,
Razvan

On 03/05/2024 19:23, Ed (scskits) via groups.io wrote:
Tony:

The 53131A had three options for the channel 3 input, 3GHz, 5GHz, and
12GHz.

I have never seen anything on EBAY over 3GHz installed in a unit.

I have seen Chinese Channel 3 boards for 3GHz (a lot of them) and 6GHz
(just 1) currently listed.
I do not see the 12GHz board listed at this time, although it was listed
in the past.

I did a board a few years back using the HMC432 (divide by 2) and two
HMC434 (divide by 8) that could get to 6GHz or higher.

A less expensive version would use the HMC432 driving an MC12079
programmed to divide by 64, have the layout for it but never made it.

Never did any follow up on these because the Chinese clone boards were
so inexpensive it was not worth pursuing.

ed
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi,

?

I bought options 030 and 124 (3GHz and 12.4GHz) on eBay a few years ago.

I tested them again today and here is the result on their respective sensitivity.

?

Option 124 doesn't pass specs below 1.8GHz, but the rest is ok.

?

his gives you an overview of the performance of these modules.

?

Yves

?

?

De?: [email protected] <[email protected]> De la part de Ed (scskits)
·¡²Ô±¹´Ç²â¨¦?: 3 mai 2024 13:23
??: [email protected]
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Another 3GHz 53132-68003 Chanel 3 option design for the 53131A and 53132A

?

Tony:

The 53131A had three options for the channel 3 input, 3GHz, 5GHz, and 12GHz.

I have never seen anything on EBAY over 3GHz installed in a unit.

I have seen Chinese Channel 3 boards for 3GHz (a lot of them) and 6GHz (just 1) currently listed.
I do not see the 12GHz board listed at this time, although it was listed in the past.

I did a board a few years back using the HMC432 (divide by 2) and two HMC434 (divide by 8) that could get to 6GHz or higher.

A less expensive version would use the HMC432 driving an MC12079 programmed to divide by 64, have the layout for it but never made it.

Never did any follow up on these because the Chinese clone boards were so inexpensive it was not worth pursuing.

ed

 

Yves:

Thanks for the update.

Do the boards count randomly when there is no input?

Were these the OEM options or clones?

ed
 

Razvan:

The 3GHz board is a divide by 128, with a max output of 23.4375MHz at 3GHz.
That has to get to the main board through the ribbon cable, not the best way to connect.
At 12GHz the output would be almost 100MHz so I think that the higher frequency option boards likely have an additional divider to keep the output at a reasonable frequency.

There are two pins (CH3CODE0 and CH3CODE1) on the connector that are used to tell the main board that one of the options is installed.

I would think that a combination of those pins would select one of the three options or no option.

I will try to see what effect they have later this weekend.

ed
 

I have the latest version of my PCB's ready to build. I added a trimpot for the bias on the prescaler chip to do away with the need for selecting a resistor, which is accessible through a convenient spare hole in the side of the chassis.
This way you can easily dial in the bias to optimise the tradeoff between stopping random counts with no input signal and sensitivity of the prescaler.

Here is the sensitivity of my previous version (pdf), once I have my latest version constructed, I'll make a better measurement of its performance.
It exceeds the HP spec by a bit up the top of the frequency range, so I'll have to figure out how to fix that.


And a 3D render of the design:
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Ed,

?

Both 53132A do not count if there is no signal at their CH3 input.

?

I bought these 2 PCBs on eBay, I think they are clones.

?

For 12.4GHz option, the board is identical to this one:

For the 3GHz option, I cannot find the information.

?

Yves

De?: [email protected] <[email protected]> De la part de Ed (scskits)
·¡²Ô±¹´Ç²â¨¦?: 4 mai 2024 07:11
??: [email protected]
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Another 3GHz 53132-68003 Chanel 3 option design for the 53131A and 53132A

?

Yves:

Thanks for the update.

Do the boards count randomly when there is no input?

Were these the OEM options or clones?

ed

 

Hello Ed,

I saw how the 3GHz board works regarding the divider but I didn't see
any original board more than 3GHz.

I didn't buy any cloned boards because I saw you need to use the math
function scale set to 4.0. I think they do divide by 128 also for the
12GHz board but they should do probably divide by 512.

How is the original 12Ghz prescaler board working in regards to the divider?

I got the PCBs for the 3GHz version but I didn't order the parts to
build them. I will install the 3GHz prescaler first until I find a
prescaler that doesn't need the scale set to 4.

Razvan

On 04/05/2024 13:22, Ed (scskits) via groups.io wrote:
Razvan:

The 3GHz board is a divide by 128, with a max output of 23.4375MHz at 3GHz.
That has to get to the main board through the ribbon cable, not the best
way to connect.
At 12GHz the output would be almost 100MHz so I think that the higher
frequency option boards likely have an additional divider to keep the
output at a reasonable frequency.

There are two pins (CH3CODE0 and CH3CODE1) on the connector that are
used to tell the main board that one of the options is installed.

I would think that a combination of those pins would select one of the
three options or no option.

I will try to see what effect they have later this weekend.

ed
 

Hi Razvan,

I have option 124 on my hp53132A and it's a clone bought on eBay.
The scale used is 4, because by default, the internal divider is positioned
for a 030 or 3GHz option.

But I found on the EEVblog site, it seems to me, the following file
concerning the activation of the correct divider depending on the option.
I'll try this approach when I have some free time.


Yves

-----Message d'origine-----
De?: [email protected]
<[email protected]> De la part de Razvan Popescu via
groups.io
·¡²Ô±¹´Ç²â¨¦?: 5 mai 2024 16:58
??: [email protected]
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Another 3GHz 53132-68003 Chanel
3 option design for the 53131A and 53132A

Hello Ed,

I saw how the 3GHz board works regarding the divider but I didn't see any
original board more than 3GHz.

I didn't buy any cloned boards because I saw you need to use the math
function scale set to 4.0. I think they do divide by 128 also for the 12GHz
board but they should do probably divide by 512.

How is the original 12Ghz prescaler board working in regards to the divider?

I got the PCBs for the 3GHz version but I didn't order the parts to build
them. I will install the 3GHz prescaler first until I find a prescaler that
doesn't need the scale set to 4.

Razvan


On 04/05/2024 13:22, Ed (scskits) via groups.io wrote:
Razvan:

The 3GHz board is a divide by 128, with a max output of 23.4375MHz at
3GHz.
That has to get to the main board through the ribbon cable, not the
best way to connect.
At 12GHz the output would be almost 100MHz so I think that the higher
frequency option boards likely have an additional divider to keep the
output at a reasonable frequency.

There are two pins (CH3CODE0 and CH3CODE1) on the connector that are
used to tell the main board that one of the options is installed.

I would think that a combination of those pins would select one of the
three options or no option.

I will try to see what effect they have later this weekend.

ed

option 124 12.4GHz_.txt
option 124 12.4GHz_.txt

 

Hello Yves,

I was thinking the same that something is not right in the firmware.
I found the same thread on EEVblog late last night. For me it is more
work to be done since my 53181A and 53132A both have no option so I need
to maybe install the zero ohm R334 resistor and also the U14 socket.

When I will have time I will open my counters and check the motherboards
first.

Would be great news if you can confirm this info and the cloned 12.4GHz
work by default without any scale adjustment.

There is also an 18GHz version from the same seller on eBay and I wonder
that one how it would work since HP never had 18GHz version released.
They say you need the 3GHz option already installed and working and
after that you need to set scale to 4.0 to have the 18GHz option working
correctly. Maybe the hex values modification in firmware tells it what
divider or IF to use so maybe other values (or the same values as 12GHz)
will make it working fine without scale adjustment.

Thanks,
Razvan

On 05/05/2024 23:32, Yves Tardif via groups.io wrote:
Hi Razvan,

I have option 124 on my hp53132A and it's a clone bought on eBay.
The scale used is 4, because by default, the internal divider is positioned
for a 030 or 3GHz option.

But I found on the EEVblog site, it seems to me, the following file
concerning the activation of the correct divider depending on the option.
I'll try this approach when I have some free time.


Yves

-----Message d'origine-----
De?: [email protected]
<[email protected]> De la part de Razvan Popescu via
groups.io
·¡²Ô±¹´Ç²â¨¦?: 5 mai 2024 16:58
??: [email protected]
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Another 3GHz 53132-68003 Chanel
3 option design for the 53131A and 53132A

Hello Ed,

I saw how the 3GHz board works regarding the divider but I didn't see any
original board more than 3GHz.

I didn't buy any cloned boards because I saw you need to use the math
function scale set to 4.0. I think they do divide by 128 also for the 12GHz
board but they should do probably divide by 512.

How is the original 12Ghz prescaler board working in regards to the divider?

I got the PCBs for the 3GHz version but I didn't order the parts to build
them. I will install the 3GHz prescaler first until I find a prescaler that
doesn't need the scale set to 4.

Razvan


On 04/05/2024 13:22, Ed (scskits) via groups.io wrote:
Razvan:

The 3GHz board is a divide by 128, with a max output of 23.4375MHz at
3GHz.
That has to get to the main board through the ribbon cable, not the
best way to connect.
At 12GHz the output would be almost 100MHz so I think that the higher
frequency option boards likely have an additional divider to keep the
output at a reasonable frequency.

There are two pins (CH3CODE0 and CH3CODE1) on the connector that are
used to tell the main board that one of the options is installed.

I would think that a combination of those pins would select one of the
three options or no option.

I will try to see what effect they have later this weekend.

ed
 

Yves:

So the 12GHz board likely has a divide by 512 so the hardware sees the same frequency range as the 3GHz board and the X4 scales it up to the correct frequency for display.

At 18MHz the 12GHz board output would output a bit over 35MHz.

Thanks for posting the text file with the necessary changes.

ed
 

Hi Razvan,

When you have a 5313xA firmware 3403, I think by default the EEPROM includes the configuration for the 3GHz option.
So, only the hardware option would be missing.
When I bought my hp53132A several years ago, I installed the 3GHz option only later.
After installing the PCB, the 53132A worked normally without having to modify the EEPROM or adjust the scale.
Since then, I have acquired another meter, Agilent 53132A (newer, firmware 3944); I transferred the 3GHz option to this one without problems and the frequency displayed was normal, without having to put a compensation scale or modify the EEPROM.
Hence my conclusion that the 3GHz option is activated in the EEPROM by default, but it obviously requires the hardware part to be added.

The 124 option (12.4GHz), the divider is 512 instead of 128 for 3GHz, then you must put a scale of 4, to multiply the result by 4 to display the correct frequency.
By modifying the EEPROM as suggested in the document, I should be able to make the 12.4GHz option work without changing the scale.
It's quite easy to simply activate the scale at 4.

But in my opinion, it may be a lot of work and a risk to remove the EEPROM, put a socket (restricted place on the PCB), and make modifications in the EEPROM.
Furthermore, on the PCB of my hp53132A, I cannot find the R334 resistor cited in the document.
In short, I will look at the implications of making this change, and I will take the opportunity to do a firmware update, if I decide to move forward with this little project.
I need to check the calibration procedure first.

Yves

Envoy¨¦ : 6 mai 2024 04:28
? : [email protected]
Objet : Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Another 3GHz 53132-68003 Chanel 3 option design for the 53131A and 53132A

Hello Yves,

I was thinking the same that something is not right in the firmware.
I found the same thread on EEVblog late last night. For me it is more work to be done since my 53181A and 53132A both have no option so I need to maybe install the zero ohm R334 resistor and also the U14 socket.

When I will have time I will open my counters and check the motherboards first.

Would be great news if you can confirm this info and the cloned 12.4GHz work by default without any scale adjustment.

There is also an 18GHz version from the same seller on eBay and I wonder that one how it would work since HP never had 18GHz version released.
They say you need the 3GHz option already installed and working and after that you need to set scale to 4.0 to have the 18GHz option working correctly. Maybe the hex values modification in firmware tells it what divider or IF to use so maybe other values (or the same values as 12GHz) will make it working fine without scale adjustment.

Thanks,
Razvan
 

Hi Yves,

Thanks for your reply. My units 53181A and 53132A are both HP models not
the newer Agilent ones. Both were basic versions without OCXO and
without 2nd channel for 53181A and 3rd channel for 53132A.

I built my own OCXO boards and I wanted for some time to add the extra
channel.
I have some PLCC sockets so I will attempt to remove the EEPROM.

You were lucky with your units because some people reported they didn't
have in the EEPROM header written 'HP53131 is a winner!' so those will
not work to add the 3rd channel unless firmware is upgraded.

For calibration you will need the following:
1) 10MHz source
2) precise 5V reference source
3) pulse generator
4) time interval calibrator (J06-59992A)

Someone on EEVblog made a board to replace the parts from points 2-3-4.

He says he sells the kit for $30.




Thanks,
Razvan

On 07/05/2024 02:42, Yves Tardif via groups.io wrote:
Hi Razvan,

When you have a 5313xA firmware 3403, I think by default the EEPROM includes the configuration for the 3GHz option.
So, only the hardware option would be missing.
When I bought my hp53132A several years ago, I installed the 3GHz option only later.
After installing the PCB, the 53132A worked normally without having to modify the EEPROM or adjust the scale.
Since then, I have acquired another meter, Agilent 53132A (newer, firmware 3944); I transferred the 3GHz option to this one without problems and the frequency displayed was normal, without having to put a compensation scale or modify the EEPROM.
Hence my conclusion that the 3GHz option is activated in the EEPROM by default, but it obviously requires the hardware part to be added.

The 124 option (12.4GHz), the divider is 512 instead of 128 for 3GHz, then you must put a scale of 4, to multiply the result by 4 to display the correct frequency.
By modifying the EEPROM as suggested in the document, I should be able to make the 12.4GHz option work without changing the scale.
It's quite easy to simply activate the scale at 4.

But in my opinion, it may be a lot of work and a risk to remove the EEPROM, put a socket (restricted place on the PCB), and make modifications in the EEPROM.
Furthermore, on the PCB of my hp53132A, I cannot find the R334 resistor cited in the document.
In short, I will look at the implications of making this change, and I will take the opportunity to do a firmware update, if I decide to move forward with this little project.
I need to check the calibration procedure first.

Yves

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