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Hi,? this seems quite an active group. Does anybody have any experience of the HP 8131A pulse generator with an F500 error ?
According to the manual, error F500 means the combination of timing board and output board is incompatible. Which is odd, my boards are as follows..
Output Board: 08131-66526 Timing Board: 08131-66505 CPU Board: 08131-66503
I've been unable to see anywhere where it says what is and isn't an acceptable combination.?
I've also seen a snippet about the ROM version. If you have v1.2 and fit a new timing board then you also have to update the ROM to v1.3 otherwise you get F500 error. My ROM is v1.5 so I can't see an issue there.
Its a bit odd really.?
Ben
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In case anyone else stumbles across this. It was U101?
?it looks like at startup the CPU addresses U101, sets pin 15 low, which pulls down one of two lines on the bus transceiver (depending on the position of the jumper). Then depending which line is pulled low, it knows if option 020 board is fitted or not. If neither line goes low (as was happening with mine) it thinks no board is fitted at all and throws F500 error
Unfortunately having fixed that problem, I've only progressed on to 3 new errors
E200 - Means the timing board EEPROM data is lost, which has likely killed any chance of getting this working
E304 - Transducer output polarity error?
E503 - Nothing at all about this in the manual.
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Ok bit further along now. I found the timing board wasn't quite seated right, reseated it and that has cleared the F200 and E503 errors.?
Just the E304 error now. Output won't enable, Not Output does enable but is just outputting? a DC level. Same for trigger output it's just a DC level.?
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Out will enable now, probably just a sticky relay. Still just getting a DC level coming out of it, which varies when the Hi/Lo output level is adjusted. There is no trigger output either. I tracked back to the trigger input on the timing board, applied an external trigger signal which is present going into the trigger hybrid... but nothing coming out the other side, in any mode. ?So no trigger, no output. Looks like the unobtanium trigger hybrid might be faulty :(?
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I've given up on it now. Pretty sure it's a custom hybrid IC that's the problem. I could keep an eye out on ebay for one, or maybe another parts unit. By that point though with what I'll have spent on it, could have bought a working one to begin with. Plus I don't really have any need for it.?
Plus I've lost patience with it. I've tracked down and fixed the original fault. only to find there's another fault with it on a different board. So in a fit of pique and disgust I've listed it on ebay spare or repair if anybody wants it.?
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Well after 6 months on sale on various platforms with no interest. I've now picked up another 8131a, dual output this time hoping to at least make one good one out the two.
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Powered it on annnnd..... E304 error, exactly the same as the one I already have.?
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So now I have two doorstops. No wonder nobody wants them.?
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? Hi, ? I have an 8133A, I can imagine how it is built inside the 8131A. ? In the service manual you have the electrical diagrams. The error E304 concerns channel#1, so channel#2 should work fine. By comparing the two channels it would be possible to follow the path and find the faulty section. ? I don't know if you have already attempted this repair, but there is a lot of information in the service manual. ? Yves ? 
? ? De?: HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io <HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io> De la part de vee-dub565 via groups.io
贰苍惫辞测é?: 2 octobre 2024 01:36
??: HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8131A Error F500 ? Well after 6 months on sale on various platforms with no interest. I've now picked up another 8131a, dual output this time hoping to at least make one good one out the two. Powered it on annnnd..... E304 error, exactly the same as the one I already have.? So now I have two doorstops. No wonder nobody wants them.?
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Yes that's true, I may have been a bit hasty. I had a brief look at it today and Channel 2 does indeed work correctly. I also found that channel 1 although it has the same error code as my existing 8131A it appears to be a different fault.?
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Unit 1 (single channel) - Channel 1 just outputs DC, the DC level varies as the output level is changed.
Unit 2 (dual channel) - Channel 1 does output a pulse/square wave, but at a reduced amplitude from what it should be. Channel 2 works normally.?
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With Unit 1 I 100% know the fault is on the timing board as I tested the other boards in a known good working unit I borrowed. I don't know if it's a fault that affects both channels as it's only a single channel unit. I'll have to try it with an extra output board and see if it throws an error for channel 2 as well (E404)
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With unit 2 the fault could be on the timing board or output board, I haven't got into it yet. It's possible the output board is at fault here. So I maybe able to take the known good output board from the first unit and fit it to this one to fix it.? Admittedly wouldn't be learning much, but at least it would work.?
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Unit 2 also has a defective power button (it won't stay latched pushed in), some sticky front panel buttons, an old schaffner filter, and rather sluggish fans. All of these are good in the first unit so definitely going to be swapping bits around to make one good unit.??
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Here's a link I found online to the service manual for 8131A if you don't have it already. ? https://www.doe.carleton.ca/~nagui/labequip/datagen/8131A_Service%20Manual.pdf
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Hi, ? Swapping the cards between the two instruments is a good idea, you will have a better idea which cards are faulty. And if you have a fully functional generator, you can work on the first one in your spare time. Now is there any impact on the calibration, you will know if you do some performance test measurements (service manual section 4). There are also adjustments on the output card if necessary (service manual section 3). For the timing board, this alignment is done in the factory only according to the manual. ? 
? ? I assume you already have the manuals, but here is a link anyway. Yesterday I uploaded both the user's and service guide to the site. ? /g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/files/All%20HP,%20Agilent%20and%20Keysight%20instruments%20in%20folders%20by%20part%20numbers/8000%20to%208999/8131A%20High%20speed%20pulse%20generator%20%28pulse%20width%20500%20ps%20to%2099.9%20ms%29 ? Yves ? ? De?: HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io <HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io> De la part de vee-dub565 via groups.io
贰苍惫辞测é?: 4 octobre 2024 05:59
??: HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8131A Error F500 ? Yes that's true, I may have been a bit hasty. I had a brief look at it today and Channel 2 does indeed work correctly. I also found that channel 1 although it has the same error code as my existing 8131A it appears to be a different fault.? Unit 1 (single channel) - Channel 1 just outputs DC, the DC level varies as the output level is changed. Unit 2 (dual channel) - Channel 1 does output a pulse/square wave, but at a reduced amplitude from what it should be. Channel 2 works normally.? With Unit 1 I 100% know the fault is on the timing board as I tested the other boards in a known good working unit I borrowed. I don't know if it's a fault that affects both channels as it's only a single channel unit. I'll have to try it with an extra output board and see if it throws an error for channel 2 as well (E404) With unit 2 the fault could be on the timing board or output board, I haven't got into it yet. It's possible the output board is at fault here. So I maybe able to take the known good output board from the first unit and fit it to this one to fix it.? Admittedly wouldn't be learning much, but at least it would work.? Unit 2 also has a defective power button (it won't stay latched pushed in), some sticky front panel buttons, an old schaffner filter, and rather sluggish fans. All of these are good in the first unit so definitely going to be swapping bits around to make one good unit.??
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Managed to have a brief look at these over the weekend. Looks like I do indeed have two faulty output boards (both channel 1) and one good one (channel 2) I was sure I had tested the output board from unit 1 in a good unit and it worked, but maybe I made some error.?
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Looking at the self test flow diagram in the manual this this makes sense, X04 error can only occur if the input to the transducer board is correct, but the output is wrong.? The manual suggests checking the transducer board pins, be nice if it was that simple. Will have further look when I get chance.?
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That's good!? If the error is on the transducer board, that board has no ASICs.? Just some transistor arrays that could be hard to find these days.? But there are ways around that.??
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Bit more fault finding on unit 1 and I do indeed have a pulse from the timing board going into a UOA104G on the transducer board, but nothing coming out.?
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UPA104G seems to be unavailable now. Ebay has them, but probably a good chance they are fake or factory rejects.?
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Also, I could do with a good scan of the transducer board if anybody has one. The service manual copies online are appalling.?
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You could build one with discrete components. Might be tight to fit them all on there. Or fabricate a small daughter board that sockets into the board.? Datasheet for the UPA104G is online and provides the schematic.?
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-Frank
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Oh there's no way I'm doing all that, I'd sooner sling the damned thing in a skip and cut my losses.? I did try swapping the UPA104 over from the other board and it didn't fix (or change) the fault.?
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Even though there's no custom hybrid IC's on this board, it's still full of components which you can't buy anymore and have no alternative. Meaning even if I do find the fault, Stands a good chance I won't be able to get the replacement part.
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What a heap, like I said no wonder nobody wants them.?
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Lol thats fair.? Just saying if your fault is on the transducer board, you might be more in luck.? And those transistor arrays aren't that complex.??
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I've never had the 'pleasure' of owning one of the 8131s, but I do have the smaller 8116A.? And it is the same with those - the ASICs in those are notorious for going bad.? I'd be curious if anyone knows why.? Is it a heat issue (they do have heat sinks attached to them)?
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Which is a shame because I really like their ease of use.??
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-Frank
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For the 8131A, could something else be overloading the output of the UPA104?
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For the 8116A, I'm sure I read that fan failure causes the hybrids to overheat & fail.
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David
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Hi, I understand your frustration. These are excellent generators, but not easy to repair. But in this case, it would be repairable in my opinion, it would be enough to find the right transistor and create the assembly of these 5 transistors. However, in an array of transistors, the internal transistors are very similar, there could be a slight loss of performance with discrete components, but the generator would still be functional. ? Yesterday I had started to do a simulation on LTSpice to define all the polarization of this stage, it is nothing really complicated for this part. Have you measured all the DC voltages surrounding this integrated circuit, if the LM324 failed for example, it could block the signal. ? If you ever have the information concerning the DC voltages at each pin, I could analyze these results. ? Yves ? De?: HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io <HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io> De la part de vee-dub565 via groups.io
贰苍惫辞测é?: 10 octobre 2024 14:55
??: HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8131A Error F500 ? Oh there's no way I'm doing all that, I'd sooner sling the damned thing in a skip and cut my losses.? I did try swapping the UPA104 over from the other board and it didn't fix (or change) the fault.? Even though there's no custom hybrid IC's on this board, it's still full of components which you can't buy anymore and have no alternative. Meaning even if I do find the fault, Stands a good chance I won't be able to get the replacement part. What a heap, like I said no wonder nobody wants them.?
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Could a CA3046 or 3086 do the job?? Subject to voltage and other parameters being suitable, plus you'd need to either dead bug wire it (pinout is totally different) or make an adapter board.
You'd have one transistor spare, but that should not be an issue.
Or, is the original a High Speed device?
Just a thought.
Dave 'KBV.
--
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using open source software:
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Hi, ? Here is a simulation to evaluate the BIAS of U203 and its behavior. According to your results you should be able to know if the BIAS part is normal. ? I added compensation parts for the signals coming from schematic part 2/4 as well as the circuitry after U203 on sheet 3/4. The simulation is based on the fact that the signal coming from sheet 2/4, is ±0.2V. ? If there is close to 0V at the base of transistor Q216, there will be a signal at pin 3 of U203 (nothing at pin 2), but no signal at the output, this is the ON/OFF function. ? The schematics I have are poor, so there might be some errors. ? Hope this helps. ? Yves ? De?: HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io <HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io> De la part de vee-dub565 via groups.io
贰苍惫辞测é?: 10 octobre 2024 14:55
??: HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8131A Error F500 ? Oh there's no way I'm doing all that, I'd sooner sling the damned thing in a skip and cut my losses.? I did try swapping the UPA104 over from the other board and it didn't fix (or change) the fault.? Even though there's no custom hybrid IC's on this board, it's still full of components which you can't buy anymore and have no alternative. Meaning even if I do find the fault, Stands a good chance I won't be able to get the replacement part. What a heap, like I said no wonder nobody wants them.?
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Frank Mashockie
factory
