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I failed to realize, until recently, that the screws on the covers on many HP instruments are Pozidrive and not Philips. Had I looked more carefully I would have seen the X indicator but it was only after I actually used a Pozidrive on one that I felt how much better it was! Not surprisingly it's a much better / firmer fit. Live and learn I guess. I'll never use a Philips on one again!  ??
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Interesting. Maybe that's why I've had such a hard time trying to avoid ruining those as frequently as I had.? Do you have an image with a "pozidrive" tip? Radu.?
I failed to realize, until recently, that the screws on the covers on many HP instruments are Pozidrive and not Philips.
Had I looked more carefully I would have seen the X indicator but it was only after I actually used a Pozidrive on one that I felt how much better it was! Not surprisingly it's a much better / firmer fit.
Live and learn I guess. I'll never use a Philips on one again!
 ??
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Easy to find Pozi drive tools on ebay or at many specialty stores. I have and commonly use Pozi 0,1,2 drivers. It makes a REAL difference.
Cheers!
Bruce
Quoting Radu Bogdan Dicher <vondicher@...>:
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Interesting. Maybe that's why I've had such a hard time trying to avoid
ruining those as frequently as I had.
Do you have an image with a "pozidrive" tip?
Radu.
On Sat, Sep 17, 2022, 2:33 PM vk2bea via groups.io <vk2bea=
[email protected]> wrote:
I failed to realize, until recently, that the screws on the covers on many
HP instruments are Pozidrive and not Philips.
Had I looked more carefully I would have seen the X indicator but it was
only after I actually used a Pozidrive on one that I felt how much better
it was! Not surprisingly it's a much better / firmer fit.
Live and learn I guess. I'll never use a Philips on one again!
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Phillips head screws are used only in the United States and are poor indeed. Elsewhere, except in Japan, crosshead screws are PoziDriv.
Japanese cross head screws are most likely JIS, quite similar to PoziDriv. Using a Phillips driver in these screw will damage them.
Lots of PoziDriv screwdrivers are available on Amazon. You want sizes 1, 2 and 3.
If you ever work on Japanese electronics, you need a set of JIS drivers also.
Larry Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10
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-------- Original message -------- From: Radu Bogdan Dicher <vondicher@...> Date: 9/17/22 2:40 PM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Pozidrive screws on HP covers
Interesting. Maybe that's why I've had such a hard time trying to avoid ruining those as frequently as I had.? Do you have an image with a "pozidrive" tip? Radu.?
I failed to realize, until recently, that the screws on the covers on many HP instruments are Pozidrive and not Philips.
Had I looked more carefully I would have seen the X indicator but it was only after I actually used a Pozidrive on one that I felt how much better it was! Not surprisingly it's a much better / firmer fit.
Live and learn I guess. I'll never use a Philips on one again!
 ??
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On Sat, Sep 17, 2022 at 11:33 PM, vk2bea wrote:
Pozidrive and not Philips.
That'd be Pozidriv and Phillips, not Pozidrive and Philips. Using a Phillips screwdriver on a Pozidriv screw causes excessive wear to the screwhead. Brands like HP/Agilent/Keysight and Tektronix almost exclusively use(d) Pozidriv screws. Raymond
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I have found keeping a PZ1 and a PZ2 Pozidriv drivers in close reach lets me get through almost any HP and a lot of Tek gear.
A bunch of 90's Tek gear will need Torx drivers too.
As for Japanese JIS 'plus drive' screws you can tell if you come across one as there is usually a dot punched into the head of the screw.
They have straight main flutes like a Pozidriv, but lack the extra smaller flutes characteristic to Pozidriv.
Here in Japan, both JIS and Philips are common.
People most often come across JIS when stripping out the heads of screws on older Japanese motorcycle carburettors...
Australia uses Philips mostly, but Pozidriv does exist here and there.
I used to come across it most commonly in circuit breakers when I was working as an electrician. The extra torque available was handy for getting the terminal nice and tight on the conductors.
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Is pozidriv better than hex, though? I've had dramatically lower
frustration using hex on most things I design (though torx
conceptually seems better and now its patent has expired, so I might
move in that direction)
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On Sat, 17 Sep 2022, vk2bea via groups.io wrote: All HP gear used Pozidriv screws, not Philips. May be there are some exclusions but as far as I can tell I have never seen that. I failed to realize, until recently, that the screws on the covers on many
HP instruments are Pozidrive and not Philips.
Had I looked more carefully I would have seen the X indicator but it was
only after I actually used a Pozidrive on one that I felt how much better
it was! Not surprisingly it's a much better / firmer fit.
Live and learn I guess. I'll never use a Philips on one again! --- * * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * *
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People: I keep learning useful stuff on these threads even when looking at posts about equipment I don¡¯t own. Pozidrive screws: Great tip!
Steve
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Here is a link to some pictures comparing Phillips and Pozidriv screwdrivers and screw heads. Photos were taken of the two types next to one another to permit easy observation of the differences between them - Phillips on the left and Pozidriv on the right in all images.
And as for working on old HP gear, best to have both Phillips AND Pozi close at hand, as over the years the PZ screws tend to become lost and are often replaced with Phillips, resulting in a mixed bag of hardware. In this instance, the two screws in the final gallery photo both came from the same instrument, which happens to have three Phillips and one Pozi holding its top cover on.. -Pat
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: vondicher@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 5:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Pozidrive screws on HP covers
Interesting. Maybe that's why I've had such a hard time trying to avoid ruining those as frequently as I had. Do you have an image with a "pozidrive" tip? Radu.
I failed to realize, until recently, that the screws on the covers on many HP instruments are Pozidrive and not Philips.
Had I looked more carefully I would have seen the X indicator but it was only after I actually used a Pozidrive on one that I felt how much better it was! Not surprisingly it's a much better / firmer fit.
Live and learn I guess. I'll never use a Philips on one again!
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I'm also appreciating learning?on this! I had no idea. Many thanks?to the OP.? I also found out I actually have a couple of these tips for my "fine work" bench?driver. A #1 and a #2. I used the?#2 today!? Radu.?
Here is a link to some pictures comparing Phillips and Pozidriv screwdrivers and screw heads. Photos were taken of the two types next to one another to permit easy observation of the differences between them - Phillips on the left and Pozidriv on the right in all images.
And as for working on old HP gear, best to have both Phillips AND Pozi close at hand, as over the years the PZ screws tend to become lost and are often replaced with Phillips, resulting in a mixed bag of hardware. In this instance, the two screws in the final gallery photo both came from the same instrument, which happens to have three Phillips and one Pozi holding its top cover on.. -Pat
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: vondicher@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 5:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Pozidrive screws on HP covers
Interesting. Maybe that's why I've had such a hard time trying to avoid ruining those as frequently as I had. Do you have an image with a "pozidrive" tip? Radu.
I failed to realize, until recently, that the screws on the covers on many HP instruments are Pozidrive and not Philips.
Had I looked more carefully I would have seen the X indicator but it was only after I actually used a Pozidrive on one that I felt how much better it was! Not surprisingly it's a much better / firmer fit.
Live and learn I guess. I'll never use a Philips on one again!
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Back in the '60's, while In the USAF, we knew these as "Reed and Prince" screw heads.? I've since noted the more commonly used term of Pozidriv's.? .
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Reed and Prince is NOT the same as POZI.? Reed and Prince is also known as Frearson.? From a web article about Frearson:? "Also known as the Reed and Prince, this screwdriver is similar to a Phillips but with a cross shape. Frearson bits accommodate all Frearson screws, regardless of size. The Frearson head is tapered to a sharp point, which allows for higher applied torque than the rounded-tip Phillips".
POZI drivers are blunted at the end and do not come to a point.? in the attached photo the bottom driver is a Craftsman 1/4" Reed and Prince.? Note the pointed end.? The top is a Stanley #2 POZI driver that was actually used in production at Loveland HP.? Reed and Prince drivers have 4 flutes that have parallel sides on each and do not taper down toward the center like Phillips, ie: the cross has no taper.? There are different angles involved as well.? The point keeps an Reed and Prince from fully engaging a POZI screw correctly and it will damage the screw head and the driver.? There were few Phillips screw drivers at HP and I don't know that I ever saw a Reed and Prince there other than in Facilities Maintenance.? I do think a Reed and Prince with the point blunted would work in a POZI better than a Phillips but is still not the correct driver.? If you have the right driver for a screw you can hold the driver horizontal and place the screw on the driver.? Then moving the driver up and down while horizontal the screw will not fall off.? If it does you have a worn screw, worn driver, or the wrong driver!? The differences are often subtle, but can cause much frustration and damaged hardware.
Clay Scott
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Reed and Prince was a phillips competitor that was used
almost exclusively for wood screws. The difference is
Phillips comes to a flat where all of the edges of the
driver come together and Reed and Prince comes to a point.
The angle is slightly different too.
Definitely nothing like a Pozidriv.
-Chuck Harris
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On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 19:38:02 -0700 "Mike D." <DrD@...> wrote: Back in the '60's, while In the USAF, we knew these as "Reed and
Prince" screw heads.? I've since noted the more commonly used term of
Pozidriv's.? .
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Reed and Prince are different from
Pozidrive.
There are a lot of cross point screw heads.
I was introduced to JIS and JCIS screws by Maryland Metrics while
working on cameras at a TV station.
There are used extensively in cameras.
The tools that I used were made by Moody and they do stand behind
their tools.
I broke the tip on two JIS drivers and Moody replaced them with
just a phone call.
Glenn
On 9/17/2022 10:38 PM, Mike D. wrote:
Back in the '60's, while In the USAF, we knew these as "Reed
and Prince" screw heads.? I've since noted the more commonly
used term of Pozidriv's.? .
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glenn Little ARRL Technical Specialist QCWA LM 28417
Amateur Callsign: WB4UIV wb4uiv@... AMSAT LM 2178
QTH: Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx) USSVI, FRA, NRA-LM ARRL TAPR
"It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class
of the Amateur that holds the license"
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Does anyone have a commercial source for the metric 3.5mm dia, 12mm long countersunk posidrive head screws used on later HP covers? The ones with a groove for the retaining circlip.
I'm currently fixing up another instrument with a missing cover retaining screw.? This happens quite frequently, so I'd like to buy say 100, and not get stuck on this problem again.
The HP part number mentioned by a label inside the cover for the metric screws is 0515-1245.? Both google and Ebay come up with nothing.
Some of the non-metric ones ( 0570-1171 ) would be good to have too.
Guy
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"Guy Dunphy" <guykd@...> writes: Does anyone have a commercial source for the metric 3.5mm dia, 12mm long countersunk posidrive head screws used on later HP covers? The ones with a groove for the retaining circlip.
I'm currently fixing up another instrument with a missing cover retaining screw.? This happens quite frequently, so I'd like to buy say 100, and not get stuck on this problem again.
The HP part number mentioned by a label inside the cover for the metric screws is 0515-1245.? Both google and Ebay come up with nothing.
Some of the non-metric ones ( 0570-1171 ) would be good to have too. Google is pretty much useless for this sort of stuff; I'd go directly to the Keysight part detail. I've ordered the 0515-1245 from Keysight directly (see ). You'll need an account on their parts store. FYI they're not cheap: like $4 each (when I bought them), so 100 is going to cost you. Also, they're torx, not pozidriv. Unfortunately, the 0570-1171 appears to be obsolete. But, if you can find another part number that might work. Or, you can reach out to Keysight and they may be able to tell you a compatible replacement. If you find that out, please report back! I'd be interested in that as well. The retaining rings are also orderable (eg 0510-0043), but typically you can just reuse the retaining ring from the existing screw. I also posted this information a few months ago here: /g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/message/127168. Matt
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Also, check Fastenal. Their only downside is that one has to purchase a bag, but the cost works out to much less than $4 per fastener.
DaveD
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On Sep 23, 2022, at 11:23, Matt Huszagh <huszaghmatt@...> wrote:
?"Guy Dunphy" <guykd@...> writes:
Does anyone have a commercial source for the metric 3.5mm dia, 12mm long countersunk posidrive head screws used on later HP covers? The ones with a groove for the retaining circlip.
I'm currently fixing up another instrument with a missing cover retaining screw. This happens quite frequently, so I'd like to buy say 100, and not get stuck on this problem again.
The HP part number mentioned by a label inside the cover for the metric screws is 0515-1245. Both google and Ebay come up with nothing.
Some of the non-metric ones ( 0570-1171 ) would be good to have too. Google is pretty much useless for this sort of stuff; I'd go directly to
the Keysight part detail.
I've ordered the 0515-1245 from Keysight directly (see
). You'll need an
account on their parts store. FYI they're not cheap: like $4 each (when
I bought them), so 100 is going to cost you. Also, they're torx, not
pozidriv.
Unfortunately, the 0570-1171 appears to be obsolete. But, if you can
find another part number that might work. Or, you can reach out to
Keysight and they may be able to tell you a compatible replacement. If
you find that out, please report back! I'd be interested in that as
well.
The retaining rings are also orderable (eg 0510-0043), but typically you
can just reuse the retaining ring from the existing screw.
I also posted this information a few months ago here:
/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/message/127168.
Matt
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"Dave Daniel" <kc0wjn@...> writes: Also, check Fastenal. Their only downside is that one has to purchase a bag, but the cost works out to much less than $4 per fastener. Would Fastenal have this? It's a OEM/non-standard part. I reached out to a number of large fastener retailers and they all said they didn't have it (and wouldn't have something specialized like this). I expect you could get them custom-made if you ordered in quantity. I also considered modifying existing screws to work, but I don't think it would work: the screw shaft where the slot for the retaining ring is cut needs to be thicker than normal screws of that size. If you did manage to get something to work I expect it would be fragile, and I wouldn't want to run the risk of a deheaded screw getting stuck in the instrument. If I had a lathe I'd consider making them myself. Matt
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Maybe. Last time I stopped by my local Fastenal store, they informed me that they no longer sell retail, commercial accounts only! Bah, Humbug.
Bill m
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On 9/23/22 09:37, Dave Daniel wrote: Also, check Fastenal. Their only downside is that one has to purchase a bag, but the cost works out to much less than $4 per fastener.
DaveD
On Sep 23, 2022, at 11:23, Matt Huszagh <huszaghmatt@...> wrote:
?"Guy Dunphy" <guykd@...> writes:
Does anyone have a commercial source for the metric 3.5mm dia, 12mm long countersunk posidrive head screws used on later HP covers? The ones with a groove for the retaining circlip.
I'm currently fixing up another instrument with a missing cover retaining screw. This happens quite frequently, so I'd like to buy say 100, and not get stuck on this problem again.
The HP part number mentioned by a label inside the cover for the metric screws is 0515-1245. Both google and Ebay come up with nothing.
Some of the non-metric ones ( 0570-1171 ) would be good to have too. Google is pretty much useless for this sort of stuff; I'd go directly to
the Keysight part detail.
I've ordered the 0515-1245 from Keysight directly (see
). You'll need an
account on their parts store. FYI they're not cheap: like $4 each (when
I bought them), so 100 is going to cost you. Also, they're torx, not
pozidriv.
Unfortunately, the 0570-1171 appears to be obsolete. But, if you can
find another part number that might work. Or, you can reach out to
Keysight and they may be able to tell you a compatible replacement. If
you find that out, please report back! I'd be interested in that as
well.
The retaining rings are also orderable (eg 0510-0043), but typically you
can just reuse the retaining ring from the existing screw.
I also posted this information a few months ago here:
/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/message/127168.
Matt
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vk2bea
Jared Cabot
Sergey Kubushyn
Steve Holland
Cubdriver
Mike D.
Guy Dunphy