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Hello,
I have owned an HP 8754A VNA for several years and over the last few years, I have been thinking to get something a little newer.? What's the general consensus on the 8753 series??? Think the A-D s have much life left in them??
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On 1/15/20 7:47 PM, Joe Smith via Groups.Io wrote: I have owned an HP 8754A VNA for several years and over the last few
years, I have been thinking to get something a little newer.? What's the
general consensus on the 8753 series??? Think the A-D
s have much life left in them?? Well if 8754s and 8505s are any indicator, at least a solid twenty years. I think the 8753's user interface is complete ass, and the 8510 trounces it, and is a whole lot more flexible on top of that. But they're larger (which matters to some people) and a lot more expensive. Though the 8754 is a wonderful instrument, any of the 8753 or 8510 series will kick the snot out of it for real-world use. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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I had written software for the 8754A VNA.? Now with Windows 10, it has to run in a virtual XP system.? It's a bit of a pain. ? Many times I have wanted the VNA to run lower frequencies and have resorted to using an external generator at times.? The storage normalizer is pretty limited. ? The test set requires some addition hardware to automate it.? It's usable but there's plenty of room for improvement.
?
We recently had to replace a CRT in an 8753C along with another problem that required a used board be purchased for the repairs.? CRT failure must be fairly common as I see they offer an LCD replacement for it.?
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Hi. I have an Anritsu MS4622B that I'm thinking of selling if you are interested. Have not made any comparisons.
As I recall, 10MHz to 3GHz. It works well and has been recently calibrated with HP power meter.
Mark in Oregon
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Joe,
You might also look at the 8712x (1.3GHz) and 8714x (3GHz).? They come with Precision-N connectors instead of APC-7, and have both good performance and a pleasant user interface.? Except for the ES versions, they are S11, S21 only.? Service information including schematics is available for the series.
--John Gord
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On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 05:21 PM, Joe Smith wrote:
Hello,
I have owned an HP 8754A VNA for several years and over the last few years, I have been thinking to get something a little newer.? What's the general consensus on the 8753 series??? Think the A-D
s have much life left in them??
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John,
The 8714ES looks nice at a glance.? I will have a look at the manuals for it.? I notice they have support for 10Mb Ethernet.? For the most part I use GPIB but would be very interested using the Ethernet port.? Can it be used to control and download data from the instrument? ? If so, does it provide faster download rates than the GPIB??
The update rate of the 8754A is fairly slow over GPIB.? Around a second?? It's just one more area I would like to improve on.
Mark,
Thanks for the offer.? It looks like a very nice unit. ? Dave mentioned the UI of the 8753, which I find very easy to use.? I have no experience with Anritsu. How does it drive?? A bit subjective. ??
I would like to get something that will work down into the sub 1MHz.
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Joe,
I have an 8714ES that I've been thinking of selling.? I bought it as a refurb direct from Keysight in January 2019 and have hardly used it.? It's quite nice and the LAN interface does indeed support remote control (SCPI) and data transfer.? The operating range is 300 kHz to 3 GHz.? The screen is monochrome but there's also a VGA output in color.?
If you're interested feel free to contact me on- or off-list.? Also, I have all of the documentation PDFs including the LAN Interface supplement that should answer all your questions about remote ops.
BRgds.....Frank?
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On 1/16/20 7:35 AM, Joe Smith via Groups.Io wrote: Thanks for the offer.? It looks like a very nice unit. ? Dave mentioned
the UI of the 8753, which I find very easy to use. I felt the same way until I go an 8510. :) After that I found the menu structure of the 8753 to be positively awful. But if it works for you, that's the important part. I would like to get something that will work down into the sub 1MHz. Definitely not an 8510 then. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 04:35 AM, Joe Smith wrote:
Mark,
Thanks for the offer.? It looks like a very nice unit. ? Dave mentioned the UI of the 8753, which I find very easy to use.? I have no experience with Anritsu. How does it drive?? A bit subjective. ??
I would like to get something that will work down into the sub 1MHz.
Joe: I have no experiences with these older HP units (use an Agilent E5071 at work) but I can say that the Anritsu UI is a bit clumsy. The Signal Path has a video of an even older Anritsu where you can get the idea.  And I agree that being able to go below 1 MHz (10 in this case!) is a drawback. I communicated with a VNA "expert" about HP vs Anritsu a while ago. He thought the HP was better at the low end but praised the Anritsu's in the GHz range. FWIW Mark
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Does one really need such sophisticated instrumentation to work
below 1MHz? 50 ohm transmission lines scarcely even exist at such
low frequencies.
The VNA was built to make it possible to characterize components
so that you could more easily build circuitry by stringing together
such characterized components, lumped along transmission lines.
They are necessary in the microwave region, where there is really
nothing that even resembles a pure resistance, pure capacitance, or
pure inductance.
At low frequencies, you can very much rely on your parts being
what you think they are. Capacitors are capacitors, and not a
mixture of capacitance, inductance, and resistance.
Unless physics has changed, I don't see a VNA being necessary, or
even useful at such low frequencies.
-Chuck Harris
Mark Bielman wrote:
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On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 04:35 AM, Joe Smith wrote:
Mark,
Thanks for the offer. It looks like a very nice unit. Dave mentioned
the UI of the 8753, which I find very easy to use. I have no experience
with Anritsu. How does it drive? A bit subjective.
I would like to get something that will work down into the sub 1MHz.
Joe: I have no experiences with these older HP units (use an Agilent E5071 at work) but I can say that the Anritsu UI is a bit clumsy.
The Signal Path has a video of an even older Anritsu where you can get the idea.
And I agree that being able to go below 1 MHz (10 in this case!) is a drawback.
I communicated with a VNA "expert" about HP vs Anritsu a while ago. He thought the HP was better at the low end but praised the Anritsu's in the GHz range.
FWIW
Mark
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Probably why Anritsu didn't bother. I usually use my SA or even a scope/sig gen combo down there.
mark
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Nope, down to 45 MHz AFAIK.? I'm salivating over the prospect of getting for a few thousand dollars a piece of microwave history that was many times that price in its day.? The still non-trivial price, the sheer bulk of the beast, and justifying its purchase to SWMBO deter me from snapping up an 8510 immediately!? Any user interface issues would be in the noise compared to the other difficulties I just mentioned.
Good luck in your search!
Jim Ford?
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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-------- Original message -------- From: Dave McGuire <mcguire@...> Date: 1/16/20 7:49 AM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Buying a used VNA
On 1/16/20 7:35 AM, Joe Smith via Groups.Io wrote: > Thanks for the offer.? It looks like a very nice unit. ? Dave mentioned > the UI of the 8753, which I find very easy to use. ? I felt the same way until I go an 8510. :)? After that I found the menu structure of the 8753 to be positively awful.? But if it works for you, that's the important part. > I would like to get something that will work down into the sub 1MHz. ? Definitely not an 8510 then. ??????????? -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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True enough, Chuck.? My SR780 FFT analyzer says it is a spectrum and network analyzer but only goes up to 102.4 kHz.? I assume the NA function is mostly for measuring? transfer functions, since reflections would be meaningless at those frequencies.? Its built-in -100 dBc THD swept sinewave source does come in handy, though.? Of course the source is necessary for the NA but optional for the spec an.
But now I want an RF or microwave VNA that goes down to something less than 102.4 kHz to avoid frequency gaps!? Can't have that when I have spec an coverage from microHertz to 22 GHz with the SR780 and HP 8566A.? 3 overlapping bands because the 8566A does 100 Hz to 2.5 GHz and 2 to 22 GHz separately.? Probably can't do that with a single VNA.
I'm shooting for an SDRkits VNWA to cover 1 kHz to 1.3 GHz for about $650 and a buddy's 8510C for something less than $2k without the sweep oscillator, which I already have.? 45 MHz to 20 GHz to start , with upgrades to higher frequencies possible.? A non-negligible snag is getting the finance committee's (my wife's) approval!? Wish me luck!
Jim Ford?
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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-------- Original message -------- From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> Date: 1/16/20 8:33 AM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Buying a used VNA
Does one really need such sophisticated instrumentation to work below 1MHz?? 50 ohm transmission lines scarcely even exist at such low frequencies. The VNA was built to make it possible to characterize components so that you could more easily build circuitry by stringing together such characterized components, lumped along transmission lines. They are necessary in the microwave region, where there is really nothing that even resembles a pure resistance, pure capacitance, or pure inductance. At low frequencies, you can very much rely on your parts being what you think they are.? Capacitors are capacitors, and not a mixture of capacitance, inductance, and resistance. Unless physics has changed, I don't see a VNA being necessary, or even useful at such low frequencies. -Chuck Harris Mark Bielman wrote: > On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 04:35 AM, Joe Smith wrote: > >> >> Mark, >> Thanks for the offer.? It looks like a very nice unit.?? Dave mentioned >> the UI of the 8753, which I find very easy to use.? I have no experience >> with Anritsu. How does it drive?? A bit subjective. >> >> I would like to get something that will work down into the sub 1MHz. > > Joe: I have no experiences with these older HP units (use an Agilent E5071 at work) but I can say that the Anritsu UI is a bit clumsy. > The Signal Path has a video of an even older Anritsu where you can get the idea. > > And I agree that being able to go below 1 MHz (10 in this case!) is a drawback. > I communicated with a VNA "expert" about HP vs Anritsu a while ago. He thought the HP was better at the low end but praised the Anritsu's in the GHz range. > > FWIW > > Mark >
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On 1/16/20 12:13 PM, Jim Ford wrote: Nope, down to 45 MHz AFAIK.? I'm salivating over the prospect of getting
for a few thousand dollars a piece of microwave history that was many
times that price in its day. It's day? I use a C in my working lab, and I believe the XF is just about the only VNA to handle 110GHz, and hasn't been out of support for that long. ? The still non-trivial price, the sheer
bulk of the beast, and justifying its purchase to SWMBO deter me from
snapping up an 8510 immediately!? Any user interface issues would be in
the noise compared to the other difficulties I just mentioned. Ahh, indeed. My wife helped me pick up my 8510C, and we did a nice road trip to get its matching rack. Spousal compatibility is good. =) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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What upper frequency are you looking for in a VNA?
Quoting Dave McGuire <mcguire@...>:
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On 1/16/20 12:13 PM, Jim Ford wrote:
Nope, down to 45 MHz AFAIK.? I'm salivating over the prospect of getting
for a few thousand dollars a piece of microwave history that was many
times that price in its day. It's day? I use a C in my working lab, and I believe the XF is just
about the only VNA to handle 110GHz, and hasn't been out of support for
that long.
? The still non-trivial price, the sheer
bulk of the beast, and justifying its purchase to SWMBO deter me from
snapping up an 8510 immediately!? Any user interface issues would be in
the noise compared to the other difficulties I just mentioned. Ahh, indeed. My wife helped me pick up my 8510C, and we did a nice
road trip to get its matching rack. Spousal compatibility is good. =)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Two HP units you might look at:
3577 A or B
4195A
Quoting Mark Bielman <mbielman@...>:
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On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 04:35 AM, Joe Smith wrote:
Mark,
Thanks for the offer.? It looks like a very nice unit. ? Dave mentioned
the UI of the 8753, which I find very easy to use.? I have no experience
with Anritsu. How does it drive?? A bit subjective.
I would like to get something that will work down into the sub 1MHz.
Joe: I have no experiences with these older HP units (use an Agilent
E5071 at work) but I can say that the Anritsu UI is a bit clumsy.
The Signal Path has a video of an even older Anritsu where you can
get the idea.
And I agree that being able to go below 1 MHz (10 in this case!) is
a drawback.
I communicated with a VNA "expert" about HP vs Anritsu a while ago.
He thought the HP was better at the low end but praised the
Anritsu's in the GHz range.
FWIW
Mark
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> Does one really need such sophisticated instrumentation to work below 1MHz?
I appreciate your concern.? I would say in my particular case, placing the question mark after "instrumentation" is appropriate and the answer to which is no. ? I certainly have no need for any of my equipment.? It's a hobby and I enjoy it.
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Well, since I have an 8350B sweeper with an 83592B 10 MHz to 20 GHz plug-in, I figured the logical first step would be a 20 GHz 8510.? However, with the rise of millimeter wave use in 5G cellular and Ka band satellite, I would like to go up to 40 GHz or so eventually.? ?In fact, I know people developing 5G chips and could probably get some side work if I had 40 GHz capability.? ?Bonus is the mechanical compatibility, to some degree, of 2.92 mm (and 3.5 mm) connectors with SMA hardware that I already have.
Kind of a chicken and egg situation; I can't afford or justify buying 40 GHz gear without some extra cash, and I can't get the work without having the gear!
Jim
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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-------- Original message -------- From: Bruce <bruce@...> Date: 1/16/20 9:49 AM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Buying a used VNA
What upper frequency are you looking for in a VNA? Quoting Dave McGuire <mcguire@...>: > On 1/16/20 12:13 PM, Jim Ford wrote: >> Nope, down to 45 MHz AFAIK.? I'm salivating over the prospect of getting >> for a few thousand dollars a piece of microwave history that was many >> times that price in its day. > >?? It's day?? I use a C in my working lab, and I believe the XF is just > about the only VNA to handle 110GHz, and hasn't been out of support for > that long. > >> ? The still non-trivial price, the sheer >> bulk of the beast, and justifying its purchase to SWMBO deter me from >> snapping up an 8510 immediately!? Any user interface issues would be in >> the noise compared to the other difficulties I just mentioned. > >?? Ahh, indeed.? My wife helped me pick up my 8510C, and we did a nice > road trip to get its matching rack.? Spousal compatibility is good. =) > >??????????? -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ > New Kensington, PA > >
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On 1/16/20 2:02 PM, Jim Ford wrote: Well, since I have an 8350B sweeper with an 83592B 10 MHz to 20 GHz
plug-in, I figured the logical first step would be a 20 GHz 8510. That's a good idea, as the sweep generator is often the most expensive part of a VNA. ? However, with the rise of millimeter wave use in 5G cellular and Ka band
satellite, I would like to go up to 40 GHz or so eventually.? ?In fact,
I know people developing 5G chips and could probably get some side work
if I had 40 GHz capability.? ?Bonus is the mechanical compatibility, to
some degree, of 2.92 mm (and 3.5 mm) connectors with SMA hardware that I
already have. I don't recall the model number offhand, but there's a test set in the 8510 family that has an internal doubler. It covers up to 40 or 50GHz. Kind of a chicken and egg situation; I can't afford or justify buying 40
GHz gear without some extra cash, and I can't get the work without
having the gear! Yes, I hate that! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Jim,
If you are looking into low cost VNAs, be sure to at least consider the NanoVNA, at about $50.? It works (with varying dynamic range) from 10kHz to 1.5GHz.? It is an amazing piece of clever design and low cost Chinese manufacturing.? The standard version has a tiny screen for excellent portability, but it can be connected to various sorts of PCs for bench use.
--John Gord
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On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 09:37 AM, Jim Ford wrote:
True enough, Chuck.? My SR780 FFT analyzer says it is a spectrum and network analyzer but only goes up to 102.4 kHz.? I assume the NA function is mostly for measuring? transfer functions, since reflections would be meaningless at those frequencies.? Its built-in -100 dBc THD swept sinewave source does come in handy, though.? Of course the source is necessary for the NA but optional for the spec an.
?
But now I want an RF or microwave VNA that goes down to something less than 102.4 kHz to avoid frequency gaps!? Can't have that when I have spec an coverage from microHertz to 22 GHz with the SR780 and HP 8566A.? 3 overlapping bands because the 8566A does 100 Hz to 2.5 GHz and 2 to 22 GHz separately.? Probably can't do that with a single VNA.
?
I'm shooting for an SDRkits VNWA to cover 1 kHz to 1.3 GHz for about $650 and a buddy's 8510C for something less than $2k without the sweep oscillator, which I already have.? 45 MHz to 20 GHz to start , with upgrades to higher frequencies possible.? A non-negligible snag is getting the finance committee's (my wife's) approval!? Wish me luck!
?
Jim Ford?
?
?
?
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
?
-------- Original message --------
From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Date: 1/16/20 8:33 AM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Buying a used VNA
?
Does one really need such sophisticated instrumentation to work
below 1MHz?? 50 ohm transmission lines scarcely even exist at such
low frequencies.
The VNA was built to make it possible to characterize components
so that you could more easily build circuitry by stringing together
such characterized components, lumped along transmission lines.
They are necessary in the microwave region, where there is really
nothing that even resembles a pure resistance, pure capacitance, or
pure inductance.
At low frequencies, you can very much rely on your parts being
what you think they are.? Capacitors are capacitors, and not a
mixture of capacitance, inductance, and resistance.
Unless physics has changed, I don't see a VNA being necessary, or
even useful at such low frequencies.
-Chuck Harris
Mark Bielman wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 04:35 AM, Joe Smith wrote:
>
>>
>> Mark,
>> Thanks for the offer.? It looks like a very nice unit.?? Dave mentioned
>> the UI of the 8753, which I find very easy to use.? I have no experience
>> with Anritsu. How does it drive?? A bit subjective.
>>
>> I would like to get something that will work down into the sub 1MHz.
>
> Joe: I have no experiences with these older HP units (use an Agilent E5071 at work) but I can say that the Anritsu UI is a bit clumsy.
> The Signal Path has a video of an even older Anritsu where you can get the idea.
>
> And I agree that being able to go below 1 MHz (10 in this case!) is a drawback.
> I communicated with a VNA "expert" about HP vs Anritsu a while ago. He thought the HP was better at the low end but praised the Anritsu's in the GHz range.
>
> FWIW
>
> Mark
>
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Dave McGuire