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The RPG's for the HP equipment I am familiar with use a T-1, 5 V, 60 mA,
bulb with wire leads. The most common failure is for the bulb to burn out.




For an 'intermittent failure', I would wonder about a loose connection at
the connector that they may have plugging into the front panel PCB or an
internal issue with the RPG itself. I disassembled the RPG on an 8350B and
'reverse engineered' the schematic. Not much to go wrong but I can send it
to you if you would like.



Perhaps the bulb has developed some 'smoke' and it makes the light less than
adequate for the signals to be properly generated.



Hope that helps.



Good luck.



Joe



From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...] On Behalf Of i8iov
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 5:19 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] 3586A encoder question





The RPG (rotating pulse generator, i.e. the encoder) of one of my 3586A's
doesn't work well. Clockwise it works well, counterclockwise it is erratic.
May it be an issue in the encoder itself? I don't know how these encoders
are made (are they optical?). May they fail this way? Before removing the
front panel for troubleshooting, I wanted to ask the group for any advices.
I could find one on ebay right now, but it would cost 50 USD + shipping.
Thanks,
Antonio I8IOV





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The RPG's for the HP equipment I am familiar with use a T-1, 5 V, 60 mA,
bulb with wire leads. The most common failure is for the bulb to burn out.




For an 'intermittent failure', I would wonder about a loose connection at
the connector that they may have plugging into the front panel PCB or an
internal issue with the RPG itself. I disassembled the RPG on an 8350B and
'reverse engineered' the schematic. Not much to go wrong but I can send it
to you if you would like.



Perhaps the bulb has developed some 'smoke' and it makes the light less

adequate for the signals to be properly generated.



Hope that helps.



Good luck.



Joe



From: hp_agilent_equipment@...

[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...

Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 5:19 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...

Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] 3586A encoder question





The RPG (rotating pulse generator, i.e. the encoder) of one of my 3586A's
doesn't work well. Clockwise it works well, counterclockwise it is

May it be an issue in the encoder itself? I don't know how these encoders
are made (are they optical?). May they fail this way? Before removing the
front panel for troubleshooting, I wanted to ask the group for any

I could find one on ebay right now, but it would cost 50 USD + shipping.
Thanks,
Antonio I8IOV

The RPG (rotating pulse generator, i.e. the encoder) of one of my 3586A's doesn't work well. Clockwise it works well, counterclockwise it is erratic. May it be an issue in the encoder itself? I don't know how these encoders are made (are they optical?). May they fail this way? Before removing the front panel for troubleshooting, I wanted to ask the group for any advices. I could find one on ebay right now, but it would cost 50 USD + shipping.
Thanks,
Antonio I8IOV

The RPG (rotating pulse generator, i.e. the encoder) of one of my 3586A's

Thanks,
Antonio I8IOV

The RPG (rotating pulse generator, i.e. the encoder) of one of my 3586A's doesn't work well. Clockwise it works well, counterclockwise it is erratic. May it be an issue in the encoder itself? I don't know how these encoders are made (are they optical?). May they fail this way? Before removing the front panel for troubleshooting, I wanted to ask the group for any advices. I could find one on ebay right now, but it would cost 50 USD + shipping.
Thanks,
Antonio I8IOV

If your RPG is the same as my 8660B the output is 2 square wave chains which lead and lag depending on the direction of travel. You can put your dual trace scope on the outputs and watch the wave forms as you turn the knob and see how the traces look. If they look OK then you might have some decoding chips not working properly.

Gary

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "i8iov" <i8iov@> wrote:

The RPG (rotating pulse generator, i.e. the encoder) of one of my 3586A's doesn't work well. Clockwise it works well, counterclockwise it is erratic. May it be an issue in the encoder itself? I don't know how these encoders are made (are they optical?). May they fail this way? Before removing the front panel for troubleshooting, I wanted to ask the group for any advices. I could find one on ebay right now, but it would cost 50 USD + shipping.
Thanks,
Antonio I8IOV

If the RPG works better in one direction it may need a small adjustment of the very small set screws on the side of the RPG near the lamp wires. This can serve to balance or direct the light flow.

Steve

Sent from my iPod

On Dec 23, 2012, at 6:18 PM, "i8iov" <i8iov@...> wrote:

The RPG (rotating pulse generator, i.e. the encoder) of one of my 3586A's doesn't work well. Clockwise it works well, counterclockwise it is erratic. May it be an issue in the encoder itself? I don't know how these encoders are made (are they optical?). May they fail this way? Before removing the front panel for troubleshooting, I wanted to ask the group for any advices. I could find one on ebay right now, but it would cost 50 USD + shipping.
Thanks,
Antonio I8IOV

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The 3586, 8568, 8566, 8340 series units All used the RPG encoders with a lamp HP 2140-0016 (653 lamp ??). These RPG's were round flattened cylinders. if the lamps were old/darkened by age/misaligned you could get " works in one direction but not the other". The solution is to remove the RPG, pop the end cover-2 opposite tabs, use needle nose to pull the bulb from the side, check bulb for clarity, resistance-90 ohms, reinsert/replace with base of bulb flush with case of RPG, AND parallel to the optical grating inside - parallel to the PC brd. The detector diodes need to be illuminated equally.

Don B.

Don,
thanks for the advice. I could do this in the next days. I will post the results.
Antonio I8IOV

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., Don Bitters Jr wrote:

The 3586, 8568, 8566, 8340 series units All used the RPG encoders with a lamp HP 2140-0016 (653 lamp ??). These RPG's were round flattened cylinders. if the lamps were old/darkened by age/misaligned you could get " works in one direction but not the other". The solution is to remove the RPG, pop the end cover-2 opposite tabs, use needle nose to pull the bulb from the side, check bulb for clarity, resistance-90 ohms, reinsert/replace with base of bulb flush with case of RPG, AND parallel to the optical grating inside - parallel to the PC brd. The detector diodes need to be illuminated equally.

Don B.

Well, for the record, I checked the encoder outputs with a scope and found
that the pulses on the two traces were of different lenght. Then I opened
the encoder to check the lamp which turned out to be darkened. In this
operation I killed the lamp which now doesn't light up, I don't know how.
The 5V are present. Luckily the lamps are available from Tucker, and I
ordered some of them. I will report later.
Antonio I8IOV

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "i8iov" wrote:

Don,
thanks for the advice. I could do this in the next days. I will post the
results.
Antonio I8IOV

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., Don Bitters Jr wrote:

The 3586, 8568, 8566, 8340 series units All used the RPG encoders with

a lamp HP 2140-0016 (653 lamp ??). These RPG's were round flattened
cylinders. if the lamps were old/darkened by age/misaligned you could
get " works in one direction but not the other". The solution is to
remove the RPG, pop the end cover-2 opposite tabs, use needle nose to
pull the bulb from the side, check bulb for clarity, resistance-90
ohms, reinsert/replace with base of bulb flush with case of RPG, AND
parallel to the optical grating inside - parallel to the PC brd. The
detector diodes need to be illuminated equally.

Don B.

I seem to remember a grain-of-wheat lamp from Radio Shack being used to
repair these units. Check the archives.

FWIW,

-John

=============

Well, for the record, I checked the encoder outputs with a scope and found
that the pulses on the two traces were of different lenght. Then I opened
the encoder to check the lamp which turned out to be darkened. In this
operation I killed the lamp which now doesn't light up, I don't know how.
The 5V are present. Luckily the lamps are available from Tucker, and I
ordered some of them. I will report later.
Antonio I8IOV

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "i8iov" wrote:

Don,
thanks for the advice. I could do this in the next days. I will post the
results.
Antonio I8IOV

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., Don Bitters Jr wrote:

The 3586, 8568, 8566, 8340 series units All used the RPG encoders with

a lamp HP 2140-0016 (653 lamp ??). These RPG's were round flattened
cylinders. if the lamps were old/darkened by age/misaligned you could
get " works in one direction but not the other". The solution is to
remove the RPG, pop the end cover-2 opposite tabs, use needle nose to
pull the bulb from the side, check bulb for clarity, resistance-90
ohms, reinsert/replace with base of bulb flush with case of RPG, AND
parallel to the optical grating inside - parallel to the PC brd. The
detector diodes need to be illuminated equally.

Don B.

Don,
thanks for the advice. I could do this in the next days. I will post the

Antonio I8IOV

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@...

The 3586, 8568, 8566, 8340 series units All used the RPG encoders with a

Don B.

It is likely a 683, T-1, wire terminal bulb, 5 V, 60 mA. Ten for about
$3.00 from most suppliers.



Probably the filament broke from vibration of movement after many years of
illumination.



Good luck.



Joe



-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...] On Behalf Of i8iov
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 5:09 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: 3586A encoder question





Well, for the record, I checked the encoder outputs with a scope and found
that the pulses on the two traces were of different lenght. Then I opened
the encoder to check the lamp which turned out to be darkened. In this
operation I killed the lamp which now doesn't light up, I don't know how.
The 5V are present. Luckily the lamps are available from Tucker, and I
ordered some of them. I will report later.
Antonio I8IOV

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@...
, "i8iov" wrote:

Don,
thanks for the advice. I could do this in the next days. I will post the

results.

Antonio I8IOV

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@...

, Don Bitters Jr wrote:

The 3586, 8568, 8566, 8340 series units All used the RPG encoders with a

lamp HP 2140-0016 (653 lamp ??). These RPG's were round flattened cylinders.
if the lamps were old/darkened by age/misaligned you could get " works in
one direction but not the other". The solution is to remove the RPG, pop the
end cover-2 opposite tabs, use needle nose to pull the bulb from the side,
check bulb for clarity, resistance-90 ohms, reinsert/replace with base of
bulb flush with case of RPG, AND parallel to the optical grating inside -
parallel to the PC brd. The detector diodes need to be illuminated equally.

Don B.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Allied has them for $3.33 for box of 10.







Joe



From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...] On Behalf Of David DiGiacomo
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 10:47 AM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: 3586A encoder question

thanks again for your "reverse engineered" sketch of the encoder.
I've asked for a quote some dealers, but they didn't answer yet. Anyway

I've not been able to find the bulb at that cheap. I've ordered 6 bulbs from
Tucker, and since the online procedure accepted the payment, I presume they
have them in stock. They sell the bulbs as genuine HP, and I would at least
expect better quality. Anyway no answer so far.

HP didn't make light bulbs, although I guess they did inspect them.

I haven't found 683s for $0.30 for a while, but they are available for
somewhat less than $3 each:







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]