|
On 11/01/2017 12:37 PM, Bob Macklin macklinbob@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote: Thanks for the information on the new IBM tape drives. I gather these
are for use on servers, not for direct use by consumers. Yes, of course. All of the high-end stuff is. I still have a couple HP Colorado tape backup unit in storage. But a
10GB tape doesn't do much for a 500GB HDD! I have probably more than
50TB of disk storage here. Why? Some of it is backups. On different
drives and different computers.
?
I just checked Fry's and they don't have much in mag tape stuff. eBay is your friend; look for something in the earlier LTO family, where drives have gotten cheaper and media is readily available cheaply. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
I have an LTO-2 internal SCSI tape drive and ten or so tapes if anyone (probably in UK) is interested ...
Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: hp_agilent_equipment@... [mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...] Sent: 01 November 2017 16:45 To: hp_agilent_equipment@... Subject: tape, was Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP Archives lost to fire. On 11/01/2017 12:37 PM, Bob Macklin macklinbob@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote: Thanks for the information on the new IBM tape drives. I gather these
are for use on servers, not for direct use by consumers. Yes, of course. All of the high-end stuff is. I still have a couple HP Colorado tape backup unit in storage. But a
10GB tape doesn't do much for a 500GB HDD! I have probably more than
50TB of disk storage here. Why? Some of it is backups. On different
drives and different computers.
I just checked Fry's and they don't have much in mag tape stuff. eBay is your friend; look for something in the earlier LTO family, where drives have gotten cheaper and media is readily available cheaply. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA ------------------------------------ Posted by: Dave McGuire <mcguire@...> ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ Yahoo Groups Links
|
You can also look at DLT tape drives. I haven't worked on
non-IBM-mainframe tape for many years, so I haven't kept track of
either DLT or LTO. I believe LTO is in it's 8th generation now. I
believe, though, that LTO has surpassed DLT in terms of capacity and
performance, probably also in terms of reliability.
Maybe someone out there has more current knowledge.
DaveD (not M)
On 11/1/2017 10:45 AM, Dave McGuire
Mcguire@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
?
On 11/01/2017 12:37 PM, Bob Macklin
macklinbob@...
[hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
> Thanks for the information on the new IBM tape
drives. I gather these
> are for use on servers, not for direct use by
consumers.
Yes, of course. All of the high-end stuff is.
> I still have a couple HP Colorado tape backup unit in
storage. But a
> 10GB tape doesn't do much for a 500GB HDD! I have
probably more than
> 50TB of disk storage here. Why? Some of it is
backups. On different
> drives and different computers.
> ?
> I just checked Fry's and they don't have much in mag
tape stuff.
eBay is your friend; look for something in the earlier LTO
family,
where drives have gotten cheaper and media is readily
available cheaply.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
On 11/01/2017 04:56 PM, Dave Daniel kc0wjn@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote: You can also look at DLT tape drives. I haven't worked on
non-IBM-mainframe tape for many years, so I haven't kept track of either
DLT or LTO. I believe LTO is in it's 8th generation now. I believe,
though, that LTO has surpassed DLT in terms of capacity and performance,
probably also in terms of reliability.
Maybe someone out there has more current knowledge. LTO-8 was just announced; I don't know if it's shipping yet. Those are hugely capacious tapes. DLT topped out at 40/80GB, then gave way to SDLT. SDLT topped out at 300/600GB. There were a few variants like the DLT-S4 (800GB) and the VS series (80/160GB), but I never saw many of those around. For cost-sensitive home archival use, SDLT-II media in an SDLT-600 drive (300GB native/~600GB compressed) is probably the sweet spot. LTO media is still pretty expensive in any volume. Many organizations have a "use once" policy for tapes, and modern tapes are quite robust. Lots of people take them home from work and liquidate them in batches on eBay. They've typically been used once, and are barely broken in. They are usually pretty trustworthy. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Hey Dave,
?
How long does it take to push 1TB to these LTO devices? I was just starting to look at them last weekend but I couldn’t find anything definitive – It seemed that people were saying !500GB an hour.
?
Any insights?
?
Thanks,
TonyG
?
Sent from for Windows 10
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: hp_agilent_equipment@... on behalf of Dave McGuire Mcguire@... [hp_agilent_equipment]
Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2017 2:38:20 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: tape, was Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP Archives lost to fire.
?
?
On 11/01/2017 04:56 PM, Dave Daniel kc0wjn@...
[hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
> You can also look at DLT tape drives. I haven't worked on
> non-IBM-mainframe tape for many years, so I haven't kept track of either
> DLT or LTO. I believe LTO is in it's 8th generation now. I believe,
> though, that LTO has surpassed DLT in terms of capacity and performance,
> probably also in terms of reliability.
>
> Maybe someone out there has more current knowledge.
LTO-8 was just announced; I don't know if it's shipping yet. Those
are hugely capacious tapes.
DLT topped out at 40/80GB, then gave way to SDLT. SDLT topped out at
300/600GB. There were a few variants like the DLT-S4 (800GB) and the VS
series (80/160GB), but I never saw many of those around.
For cost-sensitive home archival use, SDLT-II media in an SDLT-600
drive (300GB native/~600GB compressed) is probably the sweet spot. LTO
media is still pretty expensive in any volume.
Many organizations have a "use once" policy for tapes, and modern
tapes are quite robust. Lots of people take them home from work and
liquidate them in batches on eBay. They've typically been used once,
and are barely broken in. They are usually pretty trustworthy.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Ummmm...which Dave?
On 11/1/2017 3:42 PM, Tony Goodhew
tony_goodhew@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
???
Hey Dave,
???
How long does it take to push 1TB to
these LTO devices? I was just starting to look at them
last weekend but I couldn???t find anything definitive ???
It seemed that people were saying !500GB an hour.
???
Any insights?
???
Thanks,
TonyG
???
Sent from for Windows 10
???
???
On 11/01/2017 04:56 PM, Dave Daniel kc0wjn@...
[hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
> You can also look at DLT tape drives. I haven't
worked on
> non-IBM-mainframe tape for many years, so I
haven't kept track of either
> DLT or LTO. I believe LTO is in it's 8th
generation now. I believe,
> though, that LTO has surpassed DLT in terms of
capacity and performance,
> probably also in terms of reliability.
>
> Maybe someone out there has more current
knowledge.
LTO-8 was just announced; I don't know if it's
shipping yet. Those
are hugely capacious tapes.
DLT topped out at 40/80GB, then gave way to SDLT. SDLT
topped out at
300/600GB. There were a few variants like the DLT-S4
(800GB) and the VS
series (80/160GB), but I never saw many of those
around.
For cost-sensitive home archival use, SDLT-II media in
an SDLT-600
drive (300GB native/~600GB compressed) is probably the
sweet spot. LTO
media is still pretty expensive in any volume.
Many organizations have a "use once" policy for tapes,
and modern
tapes are quite robust. Lots of people take them home
from work and
liquidate them in batches on eBay. They've typically
been used once,
and are barely broken in. They are usually pretty
trustworthy.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
The theoretical write speed is 360 MB/s??? at maximium compression,
however in the real world mileage will vary.??? That also depends on
being able to keep data streaming out to the device.??? Block size
can also impact the throughput.
Paul.
On 2017-11-01 6:42 PM, Tony Goodhew
tony_goodhew@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
???
Hey Dave,
???
How long does it take to push 1TB to
these LTO devices? I was just starting to look at them
last weekend but I couldn???t find anything definitive ???
It seemed that people were saying !500GB an hour.
???
Any insights?
???
Thanks,
TonyG
???
Sent from for Windows 10
???
???
On 11/01/2017 04:56 PM, Dave Daniel kc0wjn@...
[hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
> You can also look at DLT tape drives. I haven't
worked on
> non-IBM-mainframe tape for many years, so I
haven't kept track of either
> DLT or LTO. I believe LTO is in it's 8th
generation now. I believe,
> though, that LTO has surpassed DLT in terms of
capacity and performance,
> probably also in terms of reliability.
>
> Maybe someone out there has more current
knowledge.
LTO-8 was just announced; I don't know if it's
shipping yet. Those
are hugely capacious tapes.
DLT topped out at 40/80GB, then gave way to SDLT. SDLT
topped out at
300/600GB. There were a few variants like the DLT-S4
(800GB) and the VS
series (80/160GB), but I never saw many of those
around.
For cost-sensitive home archival use, SDLT-II media in
an SDLT-600
drive (300GB native/~600GB compressed) is probably the
sweet spot. LTO
media is still pretty expensive in any volume.
Many organizations have a "use once" policy for tapes,
and modern
tapes are quite robust. Lots of people take them home
from work and
liquidate them in batches on eBay. They've typically
been used once,
and are barely broken in. They are usually pretty
trustworthy.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Sorry - Dave McGuire, AK4HZ – Though really anyone if you happen to know.
?
The number I saw was ~500GB an hour which would mean an 8 hour run to back up my 4TB array (Was looking at the LTO 4 to 6 range).
TonyG
?
Sent from for Windows 10
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: hp_agilent_equipment@... on behalf of Dave Daniel kc0wjn@... [hp_agilent_equipment]
Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2017 2:47:58 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: tape, was Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP Archives lost to fire.
?
?
Ummmm...which Dave?
On 11/1/2017 3:42 PM, Tony Goodhew
tony_goodhew@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
?
Hey Dave,
?
How long does it take to push 1TB to these LTO devices? I was just starting to look at them last weekend but I couldn’t find anything definitive – It seemed that people were saying !500GB an hour.
?
Any insights?
?
Thanks,
TonyG
?
Sent from for Windows 10
?
?
On 11/01/2017 04:56 PM, Dave Daniel
kc0wjn@...
[hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
> You can also look at DLT tape drives. I haven't worked on
> non-IBM-mainframe tape for many years, so I haven't kept track of either
> DLT or LTO. I believe LTO is in it's 8th generation now. I believe,
> though, that LTO has surpassed DLT in terms of capacity and performance,
> probably also in terms of reliability.
>
> Maybe someone out there has more current knowledge.
LTO-8 was just announced; I don't know if it's shipping yet. Those
are hugely capacious tapes.
DLT topped out at 40/80GB, then gave way to SDLT. SDLT topped out at
300/600GB. There were a few variants like the DLT-S4 (800GB) and the VS
series (80/160GB), but I never saw many of those around.
For cost-sensitive home archival use, SDLT-II media in an SDLT-600
drive (300GB native/~600GB compressed) is probably the sweet spot. LTO
media is still pretty expensive in any volume.
Many organizations have a "use once" policy for tapes, and modern
tapes are quite robust. Lots of people take them home from work and
liquidate them in batches on eBay. They've typically been used once,
and are barely broken in. They are usually pretty trustworthy.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
This stuff is not for consumers. Probably not for small business either.
?
Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: tape, was Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP Archives lost to fire.
?
On 11/01/2017 04:56 PM, Dave Daniel kc0wjn@...
[hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
> You can also look at DLT tape drives. I haven't worked on
> non-IBM-mainframe tape for many years, so I haven't kept track of either
> DLT or LTO. I believe LTO is in it's 8th generation now. I believe,
> though, that LTO has surpassed DLT in terms of capacity and performance,
> probably also in terms of reliability.
>
> Maybe someone out there has more current knowledge.
LTO-8 was just announced; I don't know if it's shipping yet. Those
are hugely capacious tapes.
DLT topped out at 40/80GB, then gave way to SDLT. SDLT topped out at
300/600GB. There were a few variants like the DLT-S4 (800GB) and the VS
series (80/160GB), but I never saw many of those around.
For cost-sensitive home archival use, SDLT-II media in an SDLT-600
drive (300GB native/~600GB compressed) is probably the sweet spot. LTO
media is still pretty expensive in any volume.
Many organizations have a "use once" policy for tapes, and modern
tapes are quite robust. Lots of people take them home from work and
liquidate them in batches on eBay. They've typically been used once,
and are barely broken in. They are usually pretty trustworthy.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Untrue. It's for anyone who has data that needs backing up. -Dave On 11/01/2017 05:54 PM, Bob Macklin macklinbob@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
This stuff is not for consumers. Probably not for small business either.
?
Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Dave McGuire Mcguire@... [hp_agilent_equipment]
<mailto:Mcguire@... [hp_agilent_equipment]>
*To:* hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...>
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 01, 2017 2:38 PM
*Subject:* Re: tape, was Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP Archives
lost to fire.
?
On 11/01/2017 04:56 PM, Dave Daniel kc0wjn@...
<mailto:kc0wjn@...>
[hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
> You can also look at DLT tape drives. I haven't worked on
> non-IBM-mainframe tape for many years, so I haven't kept track of
either
> DLT or LTO. I believe LTO is in it's 8th generation now. I believe,
> though, that LTO has surpassed DLT in terms of capacity and
performance,
> probably also in terms of reliability.
>
> Maybe someone out there has more current knowledge.
LTO-8 was just announced; I don't know if it's shipping yet. Those
are hugely capacious tapes.
DLT topped out at 40/80GB, then gave way to SDLT. SDLT topped out at
300/600GB. There were a few variants like the DLT-S4 (800GB) and the VS
series (80/160GB), but I never saw many of those around.
For cost-sensitive home archival use, SDLT-II media in an SDLT-600
drive (300GB native/~600GB compressed) is probably the sweet spot. LTO
media is still pretty expensive in any volume.
Many organizations have a "use once" policy for tapes, and modern
tapes are quite robust. Lots of people take them home from work and
liquidate them in batches on eBay. They've typically been used once,
and are barely broken in. They are usually pretty trustworthy.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
To expound...the notion that "consumers" must only use cheap garbage because good stuff is "for" big companies is nothing but bunk. Insist on the good stuff, and leave the cheap garbage for people who don't know any better! ;) -Dave On 11/01/2017 05:55 PM, Dave McGuire Mcguire@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
Untrue. It's for anyone who has data that needs backing up.
-Dave
On 11/01/2017 05:54 PM, Bob Macklin macklinbob@...
[hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
This stuff is not for consumers. Probably not for small business either.
?
Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Dave McGuire Mcguire@... [hp_agilent_equipment]
<mailto:Mcguire@... [hp_agilent_equipment]>
*To:* hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...>
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 01, 2017 2:38 PM
*Subject:* Re: tape, was Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP Archives
lost to fire.
?
On 11/01/2017 04:56 PM, Dave Daniel kc0wjn@...
<mailto:kc0wjn@...>
[hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
> You can also look at DLT tape drives. I haven't worked on
> non-IBM-mainframe tape for many years, so I haven't kept track of
either
> DLT or LTO. I believe LTO is in it's 8th generation now. I believe,
> though, that LTO has surpassed DLT in terms of capacity and
performance,
> probably also in terms of reliability.
>
> Maybe someone out there has more current knowledge.
LTO-8 was just announced; I don't know if it's shipping yet. Those
are hugely capacious tapes.
DLT topped out at 40/80GB, then gave way to SDLT. SDLT topped out at
300/600GB. There were a few variants like the DLT-S4 (800GB) and the VS
series (80/160GB), but I never saw many of those around.
For cost-sensitive home archival use, SDLT-II media in an SDLT-600
drive (300GB native/~600GB compressed) is probably the sweet spot. LTO
media is still pretty expensive in any volume.
Many organizations have a "use once" policy for tapes, and modern
tapes are quite robust. Lots of people take them home from work and
liquidate them in batches on eBay. They've typically been used once,
and are barely broken in. They are usually pretty trustworthy.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
So, that is the data transfer rate measured before the compressor?
We used 3:1 or 4:1 as our assumed average compression ratio. 360
MB/sec before the compressor at 4:1 compression would mean that the
write rate at the head would be about 90 MB/sec? Is that about
right? If so, then the data transfer rate would be between about 90
MB/s and 360 MB/s depending on the compressibility of the data.
1 TB written at 360 MB/s comes out to about 8 hours (if I did the
math correctly). At 90 MB/s, it would be about 32 hours.
DaveD
On 11/1/2017 3:50 PM, Paul Berger
phb.hfx@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
???
The theoretical write speed is 360 MB/s??? at maximium
compression, however in the real world mileage will vary.???
That also depends on being able to keep data streaming out
to the device.??? Block size can also impact the throughput.
Paul.
On 2017-11-01 6:42 PM, Tony
Goodhew tony_goodhew@...
[hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
???
Hey Dave,
???
How long does it take to push 1TB
to these LTO devices? I was just starting to look at
them last weekend but I couldn???t find anything
definitive ??? It seemed that people were saying
!500GB an hour.
???
Any insights?
???
Thanks,
TonyG
???
Sent from for Windows 10
???
???
On 11/01/2017 04:56 PM, Dave Daniel kc0wjn@...
[hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
> You can also look at DLT tape drives. I
haven't worked on
> non-IBM-mainframe tape for many years, so I
haven't kept track of either
> DLT or LTO. I believe LTO is in it's 8th
generation now. I believe,
> though, that LTO has surpassed DLT in terms
of capacity and performance,
> probably also in terms of reliability.
>
> Maybe someone out there has more current
knowledge.
LTO-8 was just announced; I don't know if it's
shipping yet. Those
are hugely capacious tapes.
DLT topped out at 40/80GB, then gave way to SDLT.
SDLT topped out at
300/600GB. There were a few variants like the
DLT-S4 (800GB) and the VS
series (80/160GB), but I never saw many of those
around.
For cost-sensitive home archival use, SDLT-II
media in an SDLT-600
drive (300GB native/~600GB compressed) is probably
the sweet spot. LTO
media is still pretty expensive in any volume.
Many organizations have a "use once" policy for
tapes, and modern
tapes are quite robust. Lots of people take them
home from work and
liquidate them in batches on eBay. They've
typically been used once,
and are barely broken in. They are usually pretty
trustworthy.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
I know of lots of small businesses that back up on LTO, in fact I
know of a chain of stores that use LTO to back up their backend
system.? LTO comes in a range from single tape drives all the way
up to monster libraries that hold hundreds of tape cartridges with
multiple drives.
Paul.
On 2017-11-01 6:54 PM, Bob Macklin
macklinbob@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
This stuff is not for consumers.
Probably not for small business either.
?
Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
----- Original Message
-----
Sent: Wednesday,
November 01, 2017 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: tape,
was Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP Archives lost to
fire.
?
On 11/01/2017 04:56 PM, Dave Daniel kc0wjn@...
[hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
> You can also look at DLT tape drives. I haven't
worked on
> non-IBM-mainframe tape for many years, so I
haven't kept track of either
> DLT or LTO. I believe LTO is in it's 8th
generation now. I believe,
> though, that LTO has surpassed DLT in terms of
capacity and performance,
> probably also in terms of reliability.
>
> Maybe someone out there has more current
knowledge.
LTO-8 was just announced; I don't know if it's
shipping yet. Those
are hugely capacious tapes.
DLT topped out at 40/80GB, then gave way to SDLT. SDLT
topped out at
300/600GB. There were a few variants like the DLT-S4
(800GB) and the VS
series (80/160GB), but I never saw many of those
around.
For cost-sensitive home archival use, SDLT-II media in
an SDLT-600
drive (300GB native/~600GB compressed) is probably the
sweet spot. LTO
media is still pretty expensive in any volume.
Many organizations have a "use once" policy for tapes,
and modern
tapes are quite robust. Lots of people take them home
from work and
liquidate them in batches on eBay. They've typically
been used once,
and are barely broken in. They are usually pretty
trustworthy.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
On 11/01/2017 06:00 PM, Dave Daniel kc0wjn@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote: So, that is the data transfer rate measured before the compressor? The compressor is within the drive, so yes, assuming the transfer rate that you care about is data-on-disk to data-on-tape. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
That is if they can afford it. An external disk can be cheaper.
?
And it depends on how much you really need to backup.
?
The LTO units I have been looking at are not cheap!
?
Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: tape, was Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP Archives lost to fire.
?
Untrue. It's for anyone who has data that needs backing up.
-Dave
On 11/01/2017 05:54 PM, Bob Macklin macklinbob@...
[hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
>
>
> This stuff is not for consumers. Probably not for small business either.
> ?
> Bob Macklin
> K5MYJ
> Seattle, Wa.
> "Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Dave McGuire Mcguire@... [hp_agilent_equipment]
> <mailto:Mcguire@... [hp_agilent_equipment]>
> *To:* hp_agilent_equipment@...
> <mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 01, 2017 2:38 PM
> *Subject:* Re: tape, was Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP Archives
> lost to fire.
>
> ?
>
> On 11/01/2017 04:56 PM, Dave Daniel kc0wjn@...
> <mailto:kc0wjn@...>
> [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
> > You can also look at DLT tape drives. I haven't worked on
> > non-IBM-mainframe tape for many years, so I haven't kept track of
> either
> > DLT or LTO. I believe LTO is in it's 8th generation now. I believe,
> > though, that LTO has surpassed DLT in terms of capacity and
> performance,
> > probably also in terms of reliability.
> >
> > Maybe someone out there has more current knowledge.
>
> LTO-8 was just announced; I don't know if it's shipping yet. Those
> are hugely capacious tapes.
>
> DLT topped out at 40/80GB, then gave way to SDLT. SDLT topped out at
> 300/600GB. There were a few variants like the DLT-S4 (800GB) and the VS
> series (80/160GB), but I never saw many of those around.
>
> For cost-sensitive home archival use, SDLT-II media in an SDLT-600
> drive (300GB native/~600GB compressed) is probably the sweet spot. LTO
> media is still pretty expensive in any volume.
>
> Many organizations have a "use once" policy for tapes, and modern
> tapes are quite robust. Lots of people take them home from work and
> liquidate them in batches on eBay. They've typically been used once,
> and are barely broken in. They are usually pretty trustworthy.
>
> -Dave
>
> --
> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
> New Kensington, PA
>
>
>
>
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
?
That is if they can afford it. An external disk can be cheaper.
?
And it depends on how much you really need to backup.
?
The LTO units I have been looking at are not cheap!
All depends on what your data is worth!
Backups of designs I’ve done for customers, quite valuable, my 20 year old emails, not so much. But both are in the archives. :)
?
Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
?
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: tape, was Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP Archives lost to fire.
?
Untrue. It's for anyone who has data that needs backing up.
-Dave
On 11/01/2017 05:54 PM, Bob Macklin macklinbob@...
[hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
>
>
> This stuff is not for consumers. Probably not for small business either.
> ?
> Bob Macklin
> K5MYJ
> Seattle, Wa.
> "Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Dave McGuire Mcguire@... [hp_agilent_equipment]
> <mailto:Mcguire@... [hp_agilent_equipment]>
> *To:* hp_agilent_equipment@...
> <mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 01, 2017 2:38 PM
> *Subject:* Re: tape, was Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP Archives
> lost to fire.
>
> ?
>
> On 11/01/2017 04:56 PM, Dave Daniel kc0wjn@...
> <mailto:kc0wjn@...>
> [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
> > You can also look at DLT tape drives. I haven't worked on
> > non-IBM-mainframe tape for many years, so I haven't kept track of
> either
> > DLT or LTO. I believe LTO is in it's 8th generation now. I believe,
> > though, that LTO has surpassed DLT in terms of capacity and
> performance,
> > probably also in terms of reliability.
> >
> > Maybe someone out there has more current knowledge.
>
> LTO-8 was just announced; I don't know if it's shipping yet. Those
> are hugely capacious tapes.
>
> DLT topped out at 40/80GB, then gave way to SDLT. SDLT topped out at
> 300/600GB. There were a few variants like the DLT-S4 (800GB) and the VS
> series (80/160GB), but I never saw many of those around.
>
> For cost-sensitive home archival use, SDLT-II media in an SDLT-600
> drive (300GB native/~600GB compressed) is probably the sweet spot. LTO
> media is still pretty expensive in any volume.
>
> Many organizations have a "use once" policy for tapes, and modern
> tapes are quite robust. Lots of people take them home from work and
> liquidate them in batches on eBay. They've typically been used once,
> and are barely broken in. They are usually pretty trustworthy.
>
> -Dave
>
> --
> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
> New Kensington, PA
>
>
>
>
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
On 11/01/2017 06:07 PM, Bob Macklin macklinbob@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote: That is if they can afford it. An external disk can be cheaper. ...and nowhere near as reliable. And with people blindly buying 8TB drives just because they're available, more data is lost now than ever before. Do the math on the data loss rates; prepare to soil your skivvies. And it depends on how much you really need to backup. Assume everything on your drives will disappear at a random time. Think of the impact that will cause. That will make the decision for you. The LTO units I have been looking at are not cheap! ...which is why I recommended SDLT. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Media diversity is also a good thing.?
That can mean use both disk and tape as well as multiple vendors of tape and disk.?
Just finished up with a customer that not only insists on multiple disk vendors in every system, but multiple disk vendors in every SAN disk tray. And even then stripes all data across multiple trays. And then puts it on at least two different tape formats located in different major power grids. And is big enough to get what they demand.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Nov 1, 2017, at 18:42, Dave McGuire Mcguire@... [hp_agilent_equipment] < hp_agilent_equipment@...> wrote:
?
On 11/01/2017 06:07 PM, Bob Macklin macklinbob@...
[hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
> That is if they can afford it. An external disk can be cheaper.
...and nowhere near as reliable. And with people blindly buying 8TB
drives just because they're available, more data is lost now than ever
before. Do the math on the data loss rates; prepare to soil your skivvies.
> And it depends on how much you really need to backup.
Assume everything on your drives will disappear at a random time.
Think of the impact that will cause. That will make the decision for you.
> The LTO units I have been looking at are not cheap!
...which is why I recommended SDLT. ;)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
BTW:
Back in the 90's HP had a hard disk group in Boise, Id.
?
I believe it was shut down many years ago.
?
You cannot make consumer disk drives in the US anymore.
?
It appears the Quantum dropped out of the consumer drive business and went back to higher quality, lower production volume hard drives. SCSI?
?
Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: tape, was Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP Archives lost to fire.
?
On 11/01/2017 06:07 PM, Bob Macklin macklinbob@...
[hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
> That is if they can afford it. An external disk can be cheaper.
...and nowhere near as reliable. And with people blindly buying 8TB
drives just because they're available, more data is lost now than ever
before. Do the math on the data loss rates; prepare to soil your skivvies.
> And it depends on how much you really need to backup.
Assume everything on your drives will disappear at a random time.
Think of the impact that will cause. That will make the decision for you.
> The LTO units I have been looking at are not cheap!
...which is why I recommended SDLT. ;)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
I've lived in the Boulder-Longmont area in Colorado now for 26
years. I have seen so many storage device companies merge, move,
fail, etc. I can't even recall most of the names, but they were well
known. Seagate and Quantum are the only ones left as far as I know.
(I worked at Benchmark as well as StorageTek).
DaveD
On 11/1/2017 5:11 PM, Bob Macklin
macklinbob@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
?
BTW:
Back in the 90's HP had a hard disk
group in Boise, Id.
?
I believe it was shut down many years
ago.
?
You cannot make consumer disk drives in
the US anymore.
?
It appears the Quantum dropped out of
the consumer drive business and went back to higher
quality, lower production volume hard drives. SCSI?
?
Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
----- Original Message
-----
Sent: Wednesday,
November 01, 2017 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: tape,
was Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP Archives lost to
fire.
?
On 11/01/2017 06:07 PM, Bob Macklin macklinbob@...
[hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
> That is if they can afford it. An external disk
can be cheaper.
...and nowhere near as reliable. And with people
blindly buying 8TB
drives just because they're available, more data is
lost now than ever
before. Do the math on the data loss rates; prepare to
soil your skivvies.
> And it depends on how much you really need to
backup.
Assume everything on your drives will disappear at a
random time.
Think of the impact that will cause. That will make
the decision for you.
> The LTO units I have been looking at are not
cheap!
...which is why I recommended SDLT. ;)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Dave McGuire
David C. Partridge
bownes