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Date
Re: Measuring 9 MHz RF: HP 400E or HP 3400A?

 

Good morning John,

Thank you so much for the information. I have several 400E and was
thinking of getting a 3400A, so your description of the differences
was most enlightening.

As to the receiver, the scope method at a point decoupled from the
circuit will be the way I will go.

Thanks again for your time and knowledge,

Happy holidays to the group and peace and happiness to all for 2005,


Mitch

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., Chuck Harris
<cfharris@e...> wrote:
Hi Mitch,

The major difference between the 3400A and the 400E is the way
the AC signal is detected. The 400E uses a common diode, and
the 3400E uses a directly heated thermocouple. So, if your
waveform is a relatively pure sinewave, either will give you
identical results; but, if your waveform is anything else, the
3400A will give you "true RMS", which is the equivalent DC
voltage that would cause the same heating in a resistor, and
the 400E will give you the average of the waveform, multiplied
by the constant that would give the RMS value if it were a
sinewave.

What kills you in making RF measurements with the 3400A is the
input impedance, 10M in parallel with *50pf* in the low voltage
ranges, and 10M in parallel with 20pf in the high ranges. The
400E is slightly better with 10M in parallel with 25pf in the
low ranges, and 10M in parallel with 12pf in the high ranges.

The typical scope is better, but it still should be separated
from the stage you are tuning by being downstream as far as
possible. Best is to have isolated test points as permanent
parts of the circuit. Most of the better receivers have these
test points, usually with an emitter follower, or cathode
follower stage for isolation.

-Chuck Harris



aquaman8_2001 wrote:

Chuck,

So I guess for that task I am best off with a scope or an RF
voltmeter like the 3404.

Getting back to the 3400A and the 400E what would be the
difference
between them, from a task perspective?

Thanks,

Mitch
Re: Measuring 9 MHz RF: HP 400E or HP 3400A?

 

Hi Mitch,

The major difference between the 3400A and the 400E is the way
the AC signal is detected. The 400E uses a common diode, and
the 3400E uses a directly heated thermocouple. So, if your
waveform is a relatively pure sinewave, either will give you
identical results; but, if your waveform is anything else, the
3400A will give you "true RMS", which is the equivalent DC
voltage that would cause the same heating in a resistor, and
the 400E will give you the average of the waveform, multiplied
by the constant that would give the RMS value if it were a sinewave.

What kills you in making RF measurements with the 3400A is the
input impedance, 10M in parallel with *50pf* in the low voltage
ranges, and 10M in parallel with 20pf in the high ranges. The
400E is slightly better with 10M in parallel with 25pf in the
low ranges, and 10M in parallel with 12pf in the high ranges.

The typical scope is better, but it still should be separated
from the stage you are tuning by being downstream as far as
possible. Best is to have isolated test points as permanent
parts of the circuit. Most of the better receivers have these
test points, usually with an emitter follower, or cathode
follower stage for isolation.

-Chuck Harris



aquaman8_2001 wrote:

Chuck,
So I guess for that task I am best off with a scope or an RF voltmeter like the 3404.
Getting back to the 3400A and the 400E what would be the difference between them, from a task perspective?
Thanks,
Mitch
Re: HP 141T HP Journal issue

 

Hello John,

I would be interested to get the link to pdf file for 141T.

Thank you,

Miroslav Pokorni

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Miles" <jmiles@...>
To: <microwave@...>
Cc: <hp_agilent_equipment@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 11:42 PM
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP 141T HP Journal issue



Bruno, I6YPK, was kind enough to scan in the September 1971 issue of the
HP
Journal, which was devoted to the announcement and detailed technical
description of the microwave plugins and accessories for the HP 141T. He
has been storing the scanned pages at
. It's a very interesting
read,
especially with regard to the 8555A plugin. Lots of insight into the
people
as well as the technology behind the products in the 141T lineup.

QSL.NET is not exactly a convenient way to browse large quantities of
graphical content, so I downloaded all 16 pages over a couple of hours and
turned them into a single 2MB .PDF file. In keeping with Bruno's wishes,
which in turn represent those of the HP people he received permission from
to post the journal in the first place, I don't want to post a link to the
.PDF publicly. Anyone who is interested in a copy of the .PDF is welcome
to
drop me an email (off-list please). I'll respond with a non-public link
to
the file.

Bruno is planning to scan the issues covering the introduction of the HP
8568A and 4396A VNA as well, so there may be more files available soon.

-- john KE5FX





Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Measuring 9 MHz RF: HP 400E or HP 3400A?

 

Chuck,

So I guess for that task I am best off with a scope or an RF
voltmeter like the 3404.

Getting back to the 3400A and the 400E what would be the difference
between them, from a task perspective?

Thanks,

Mitch

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., Chuck Harris
<cfharris@e...> wrote:
Hi Mitch,

Are you trying to peak them, or do you need for them to be
at a specific value? Both of the meters you mention are really
audio meters. That they work up to 10MHz, is just the HP way.

Usually IF's are aligned by either peaking the whole mess as
seen by the AGC, or an AM detector, or using a sweeper with
a special detector. If you attach a 3400 to the IF, it will
load the IF stage so much that your alignment will be wrong.


-Chuck

aquaman8_2001 wrote:

Hi Chuck,

I wanted to measure the IF signal levels in a radio that I am
trying
to align. Output of one stage needs to be set to 250 mV. Again,
the
frequency is at 9 MHz.
Re: Measuring 9 MHz RF: HP 400E or HP 3400A?

 

Hi Mitch,

Are you trying to peak them, or do you need for them to be
at a specific value? Both of the meters you mention are really
audio meters. That they work up to 10MHz, is just the HP way.

Usually IF's are aligned by either peaking the whole mess as
seen by the AGC, or an AM detector, or using a sweeper with
a special detector. If you attach a 3400 to the IF, it will
load the IF stage so much that your alignment will be wrong.


-Chuck

aquaman8_2001 wrote:

Hi Chuck,
I wanted to measure the IF signal levels in a radio that I am trying to align. Output of one stage needs to be set to 250 mV. Again, the frequency is at 9 MHz.
Re: Measuring 9 MHz RF: HP 400E or HP 3400A?

 

Hi Chuck,

I wanted to measure the IF signal levels in a radio that I am trying
to align. Output of one stage needs to be set to 250 mV. Again, the
frequency is at 9 MHz.



Mitch

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., Chuck Harris
<cfharris@e...> wrote:
aquaman8_2001 wrote:

Hello All,

Just wondering what would be the instrument of choice to measure
an
IF of around 9.1 MHz, the 400E or the 3400A and, of course, the
reasons?

From the specs they both look like they will do the job, but I am
not sure. Is the 3400A older technology? Does either have a
better
reliabiity rating than the other? Easier to calibrate? Uses tough
to
find components?

Thanks for your time and thanks to a great group!

Mitch
It would help if we knew what you were trying to measure, and why.

-Chuck
Re: Measuring 9 MHz RF: HP 400E or HP 3400A?

 

aquaman8_2001 wrote:
Hello All,
Just wondering what would be the instrument of choice to measure an IF of around 9.1 MHz, the 400E or the 3400A and, of course, the reasons?

From the specs they both look like they will do the job, but I am
not sure. Is the 3400A older technology? Does either have a better reliabiity rating than the other? Easier to calibrate? Uses tough to find components?
Thanks for your time and thanks to a great group!
Mitch
It would help if we knew what you were trying to measure, and why.

-Chuck
Measuring 9 MHz RF: HP 400E or HP 3400A?

 

Hello All,

Just wondering what would be the instrument of choice to measure an
IF of around 9.1 MHz, the 400E or the 3400A and, of course, the
reasons?

From the specs they both look like they will do the job, but I am
not sure. Is the 3400A older technology? Does either have a better
reliabiity rating than the other? Easier to calibrate? Uses tough to
find components?

Thanks for your time and thanks to a great group!

Mitch
Re: HP 141T HP Journal issue

 

Hello John,

I would be most ineterested in getting the pdf. Thanks in advance
for providing this!

Mitch

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "John Miles"
<jmiles@p...> wrote:
Bruno, I6YPK, was kind enough to scan in the September 1971 issue
of the HP
Journal, which was devoted to the announcement and detailed
technical
description of the microwave plugins and accessories for the HP
141T. He
has been storing the scanned pages at
. It's a very
interesting read,
especially with regard to the 8555A plugin. Lots of insight into
the people
as well as the technology behind the products in the 141T lineup.

QSL.NET is not exactly a convenient way to browse large quantities
of
graphical content, so I downloaded all 16 pages over a couple of
hours and
turned them into a single 2MB .PDF file. In keeping with Bruno's
wishes,
which in turn represent those of the HP people he received
permission from
to post the journal in the first place, I don't want to post a
link to the
.PDF publicly. Anyone who is interested in a copy of the .PDF is
welcome to
drop me an email (off-list please). I'll respond with a non-
public link to
the file.

Bruno is planning to scan the issues covering the introduction of
the HP
8568A and 4396A VNA as well, so there may be more files available
soon.

-- john KE5FX
HP 5345A, 5355A & 5356*

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I have the above combination. Only have the manual for the 5345A. The 5355A works in the pre-scaler mode. None of the heads seem to work. I have a 5356A and a 5356C. The 5356C on occasion I got to count intermittently up to about 26 GHz. Now it will not even work intermittently. The 5356A does not work at all. Of course all of this came from ebay so the heads may be bad to begin with. Does anyone have manuals on the 5355A and the 5356 series? ?Am I doing something dumb? I would appreciate a response from someone with experience with this combination. ?

?

?

Mike B. Feher, N4FS

89 Arnold Blvd.

Howell, NJ, 07731

732-886-5960

?

?


Re: HP 141T HP Journal issue

John Miles
 

Argh. I did NOT mean to do this. :-P I got about two dozen requests and
didn't pay attention to the reply-to addresses on all of them. I've
probably sent about five copies of this to the list so far. My apologies...

-- john KE5FX

-----Original Message-----
From: John Miles [mailto:jmiles@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 11:09 AM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP 141T HP Journal issue



Here goes:



It's a little too big to email (2 MB), so I'm sending a link. Let me know
if you have trouble saving a copy.

73 -- john KE5FX

-----Original Message-----
From: NR1DX [mailto:nr1dx@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:48 AM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP 141T HP Journal issue



John

As the owner of one of these "boat anchors" I wouldn't mind
having a copy 8^)

Thanks es 73's

Dave
NR1DX
Re: HP 141T HP Journal issue

John Miles
 

Here goes:



It's a little too big to email (2 MB), so I'm sending a link. Let me know
if you have trouble saving a copy.

73 -- john KE5FX

-----Original Message-----
From: NR1DX [mailto:nr1dx@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:48 AM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP 141T HP Journal issue



John

As the owner of one of these "boat anchors" I wouldn't mind
having a copy 8^)

Thanks es 73's

Dave
NR1DX

At 01:42 AM 12/16/2004, you wrote:

Bruno, I6YPK, was kind enough to scan in the September 1971
issue of the HP
Journal, which was devoted to the announcement and detailed technical
description of the microwave plugins and accessories for the HP 141T. He
has been storing the scanned pages at
. It's a very
interesting read,
especially with regard to the 8555A plugin. Lots of insight
into the people
as well as the technology behind the products in the 141T lineup.

QSL.NET is not exactly a convenient way to browse large quantities of
graphical content, so I downloaded all 16 pages over a couple of
hours and
turned them into a single 2MB .PDF file. In keeping with Bruno's wishes,
which in turn represent those of the HP people he received
permission from
to post the journal in the first place, I don't want to post a
link to the
.PDF publicly. Anyone who is interested in a copy of the .PDF
is welcome to
drop me an email (off-list please). I'll respond with a
non-public link to
the file.

Bruno is planning to scan the issues covering the introduction of the HP
8568A and 4396A VNA as well, so there may be more files available soon.

-- john KE5FX





Yahoo! Groups Links








Yahoo! Groups Links
HP4156A Problem

gearoidloughnane
 

Hi all,
I have a HP4156A which fails test 10032. According to the manual
this is a "Offset or Gain" failure on the VSU/VMU board. Anyone have
any experience on these units.
Any help welcome.

Regards

Gearoid Loughnane
Dublin
Circuit diagram

omskariyaz
 

I am looking out for the circuit diagram of HP-415E VSWR meter . Can
anyone help?

regards
Omska Riyaz
Re: HP 141T HP Journal issue

NR1DX
 

John

As the owner of one of these "boat anchors" I wouldn't mind having a copy 8^)

Thanks es 73's

Dave
NR1DX

At 01:42 AM 12/16/2004, you wrote:

Bruno, I6YPK, was kind enough to scan in the September 1971 issue of the HP
Journal, which was devoted to the announcement and detailed technical
description of the microwave plugins and accessories for the HP 141T. He
has been storing the scanned pages at
. It's a very interesting read,
especially with regard to the 8555A plugin. Lots of insight into the people
as well as the technology behind the products in the 141T lineup.

QSL.NET is not exactly a convenient way to browse large quantities of
graphical content, so I downloaded all 16 pages over a couple of hours and
turned them into a single 2MB .PDF file. In keeping with Bruno's wishes,
which in turn represent those of the HP people he received permission from
to post the journal in the first place, I don't want to post a link to the
.PDF publicly. Anyone who is interested in a copy of the .PDF is welcome to
drop me an email (off-list please). I'll respond with a non-public link to
the file.

Bruno is planning to scan the issues covering the introduction of the HP
8568A and 4396A VNA as well, so there may be more files available soon.

-- john KE5FX





Yahoo! Groups Links
HP 141T HP Journal issue

John Miles
 

Bruno, I6YPK, was kind enough to scan in the September 1971 issue of the HP
Journal, which was devoted to the announcement and detailed technical
description of the microwave plugins and accessories for the HP 141T. He
has been storing the scanned pages at
. It's a very interesting read,
especially with regard to the 8555A plugin. Lots of insight into the people
as well as the technology behind the products in the 141T lineup.

QSL.NET is not exactly a convenient way to browse large quantities of
graphical content, so I downloaded all 16 pages over a couple of hours and
turned them into a single 2MB .PDF file. In keeping with Bruno's wishes,
which in turn represent those of the HP people he received permission from
to post the journal in the first place, I don't want to post a link to the
.PDF publicly. Anyone who is interested in a copy of the .PDF is welcome to
drop me an email (off-list please). I'll respond with a non-public link to
the file.

Bruno is planning to scan the issues covering the introduction of the HP
8568A and 4396A VNA as well, so there may be more files available soon.

-- john KE5FX
Re: HP 5061B C-Beam

Had
 


Alex,
I just went to Yahoo and looked at the group and your response about J45 was there. I don't know why it did not come through to me.
Thank you for the response and Happy Holidays.

At 04:48 PM 12/13/2004, you wrote:

?
----- Original Message -----
From: fail999
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 1:45 PM
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP 5061B C-Beam


Hi to the group.

I'm attempting to bring a very late and clean 5061B C-Beam back to
life.

Un fortunately all test so far point to a bad tube. This is a Opt. 3
and 4 unit. These options are very well known and pose no problem.
However, this unit has a HP opt. "J45" sticker on the back and I can
find no info on this one. If anyone has a clue as to what this option
is I would sure like to hear about it.

Thanks,
Had
had@...






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Re: HP 5061B C-Beam

 

Alex,
?
Option J45 on the 5061B was a special "certified stability" of 1 x 10-13 and required both standard options 003 and 004 be present in the unit. if you can obtain a copy of the HP catalog from 1990, page 493 has a detailed breakdown of the stability performance. Since it appears to simply be a certification process and not an actual hardware option I don't think this has anything to do with the functionality of the box.
?
Hope that helps.
?
factory_peasant

Alex Vandermey wrote:
?
----- Original Message -----
From: fail999
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 1:45 PM
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP 5061B C-Beam


Hi to the group.

I'm attempting to bring a very late and clean 5061B C-Beam back to
life.

Un fortunately all test so far point to a bad tube. This is a Opt. 3
and 4 unit. These options are very well known and pose no problem.
However, this unit has a HP opt. "J45" sticker on the back and I can
find no info on this one. If anyone has a clue as to what this option
is I would sure like to hear about it.

Thanks,
Had
had@...






Do you Yahoo!?
The ? Get yours free!
Re: HP 5061B C-Beam

Alex Vandermey
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

?
----- Original Message -----
From: fail999
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 1:45 PM
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP 5061B C-Beam


Hi to the group.

I'm attempting to bring a very late and clean 5061B C-Beam back to
life.

Un fortunately all test so far point to a bad tube. This is a Opt. 3
and 4 unit. These options are very well known and pose no problem.
However, this unit has a HP opt. "J45" sticker on the back and I can
find no info on this one. If anyone has a clue as to what this option
is I would sure like to hear about it.

Thanks,
Had
had@...
Re: HP 5061B C-Beam

 

I am hardly an expert, but I have studied the beasts a bit. There are
two important things about a C-beam that make their life limited:

The first is the tube operates by creating a beam of cesium ions, and the
ions are emitted from a hunk of cesium that is boiled on the cathode.
Run out of cesium, and you have no C-Beam.

The second is the tube needs to have an extremely hard vacuum, and the
spent cesium needs to be captured. This is done by including an
ion vacuum pump as part of the tube. If the tube is left for a long
time without this pump running, it will pick up enough leakage through
the glass to poison the tube.

That said, sometimes you can bring a tube back to life by connecting
just the ion pump voltage, and letting it pump for a long time.

-Chuck Harris

Henry Kolesnik wrote:

I have heard that if you let one run full time for a month or two or even three that the cesium beam tube sometime will come to back to life. I didn't do that with mine becasue I hadn't heard of that techniqued and I think I've done it in by twiddling too much. Perhaps some cesium beam technology expert can shed some light on this.
73
Hank WD5JFR
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