Re: WANTED: HP 606B Sig Gen RF Output Attenuator Module A10

#92751

Hi Jeff,
I would be very grateful to receive it, whether it is for a 606A or 606B. Beggers can't be choosers! I'll await your advice. (Fingers crossed!).

Hi Kim,
It may also be possible for me to make up a serviceable (if uncalibrated) 606B replacement unit from a combination of your 606B unit and Jeff's unit, if Jeff's is for a 606A.

Thanks to you both for your kind offers which are gladly accepted. What a great day!!

Graeme

Re: Tips on repairing the stick attenuator in the HP86603A

#92750

Hi All!

Dont ask why, but I am resurrecting several HP 8660D generators with the HP86603A plugin. The attenuators are "sticky", get stuck in a certain position. If you have experience with this exact type of stick attenuator (long silver block) with the 3 - 40 dB, 20 dB, & 10 dB sections and can advise how to make a reliable repair, I would love to hear about it. Several that I cleaned the solenoid shafts on seemed to be working only to stick again. I do not know how to search the archives as well, can someone advise?

Thanks!

73

Jeff Kruth

Re: HP Oscilloscope 1703A

#92749

Hi Ken

If you google "HP 1703a" the first hit is an operating and service manual.  It's actually a 35MHz scope.

The HP memory project also has a nice article on the 1700 series.
   
  Paul

Show quoted text

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 06:15:06PM +0000, george edmonds via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Ken
The operating and service manual is on the Keysight web site.
73 George G6HIG 

    On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 5:59 PM, KEN WRIGHT via Groups.Io <ken.h.wright@...> wrote:

 Dear All.I have a faulty HP 1703A scope, it is mains / battery operated with dual supply input, 2 channel, 10 MHz, with some sort of storage facilities, S/N 1422A 01569 made in USA. Over the years I have tried unsuccessfully to find any details about it, could have been built to a clients own specification? Obviously the batteries will need to be removed / replaced after this length of time but i would like to try to restore to working order. Any information regarding documentation etc will be gratefully appreciated.
Regards.
Ken Wright 

M0KHW? 

!DSPAM:5bf4460a321191401369483!

-- 
Paul Amaranth, GCIH  | Manchester MI, USA
Aurora Group, Inc.   |   Security, Systems & Software 
paul@...   |   Unix & Windows

Re: Readings from 436A power meter using 82357B USB-GPIB?

#92748

Hello,

Final (?) findings.

Interactive IO in the Agilent Connection Expert seems not sufficient...
Running the code, accessing the VISA library immediately and _not_ using viScanf, but viRead seems to have done the trick. I can now talk to and _read_ (not scan?) from the 436A - Yippie!

Many thanks to all you people involved for suggestions, comments and taking the time to comment!

Regards,
? Staffan

Re: A homemade diode power sensor for HP meters

#92747

开云体育

On 11/20/2018 12:15 AM, RFI-EMI-GUY wrote:

some good reading here.

Easier to search for "boonton principles of power measurement"

Boonton has always made some very nice equipment, I own a Boonton peak power meter that also reads CW power, down to about -70dBm and up to +10dBm, with provision for external 30dB pad via switch.

No CRT or solid state display, it has a numerical display. Don't know how old it is, but the last time I used it (quite a while ago) it worked perfectly.? That URL (the big long one) has a LOT of good info.

--Doug, WA2SAY, retired RF engineer

Re: Readings from 436A power meter using 82357B USB-GPIB?

#92746

Hello,

Absolutely - just how to do this on the 82357B? Hopefully very simple, but seems not to be available on the interactive IO. Any hints would be very much appreciated!

Regards,
? Staffan

Re: HP Oscilloscope 1703A

#92745

Hi Ken

The operating and service manual is on the Keysight web site.

73 George G6HIG

On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 5:59 PM, KEN WRIGHT via Groups.Io <ken.h.wright@...> wrote:

Dear All.

I have a faulty HP 1703A scope, it is mains / battery operated with dual supply input, 2 channel, 10 MHz, with some sort of storage facilities, S/N 1422A 01569 made in USA. Over the years I have tried unsuccessfully to find any details about it, could have been built to a clients own specification? Obviously the batteries will need to be removed / replaced after this length of time but i would like to try to restore to working order. Any information regarding documentation etc will be gratefully appreciated.

Regards.

Ken Wright

M0KHW?

HP Oscilloscope 1703A

#92744

Dear All.

I have a faulty HP 1703A scope, it is mains / battery operated with dual supply input, 2 channel, 10 MHz, with some sort of storage facilities, S/N 1422A 01569 made in USA. Over the years I have tried unsuccessfully to find any details about it, could have been built to a clients own specification? Obviously the batteries will need to be removed / replaced after this length of time but i would like to try to restore to working order. Any information regarding documentation etc will be gratefully appreciated.

Regards.

Ken Wright

M0KHW?

Re: Readings from 436A power meter using 82357B USB-GPIB?

#92743

Just get the controller to "un-talk/un-listen" the 436, or use the GPIB
low level "Go To Local" function.? It'll then un-freeze it's display.

Regards.

Dave B (G0WBX)

-- 
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source software.
::

Re: Readings from 436A power meter using 82357B USB-GPIB?

#92742

Hello,

I can't argue against, but my only experience is that I _can_ set the instrument in the state I want (REN active) and can read the output data when I deactivate REN, but not otherwise. I have tried to follow section 3.
What I would really like is a description of how to communicate with this instrument using the 82357.

Regards,
? Staffan

Re: Issue with homemade diode power sensor for HP meters

Dale H. Cook

#92741

At 09:49 AM 11/20/2018, David C. Partridge wrote:

You mean apart from the fact that they are the only truly accurate RMS RF sensors, and that all calibration is referred back to this type of sensor?Note also that some thermocouple power meters, such as my HP 434A Calorimetric Power Meter, can be completely calibrated with some basic equipment, such as a distortion analyzer, a 'scope, and (most important) a calibrated true RMS DMM of sufficient range and accuracy.

Dale H. Cook, GR/HP/Tek Collector, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA

Re: Issue with homemade diode power sensor for HP meters

#92740

Thermocouple power sensors can be referenced to the DC volt, and
as such give you a connection between AC power and the standardized
DC volt.

You can't do that reliably with the diode type sensors.

-Chuck Harris

n2msqrp wrote:

Show quoted text

What is the business case for thermocouple based power meters when you can get the same function with silicon at a lower price:

<>

One of the applications which accelerated development these detectors was the Cell Phone industry which required accurate signal strength readings (RSSI). One of he first devices that Hams used for this function was the NE604 FM IF system which had an accurate RSSI detector. This device is still available as the SA604A which has a wider temperature range:

Alas, technology moves on.

Mike N2MS

On November 19, 2018 at 4:42 PM RFI-EMI-GUY <rhyolite@...> wrote:

    Is there any other company on the planet who produces 50 OHM thermocouples? It seems odd that such a thing is unobtainable.

Re: 50 ohm thermocouples was RE: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Issue with homemade diode power sensor for HP meters

#92739

A bolometer is not a thermocouple sensor.  What it is is a
small lightbulb filament in a vacuum that is exposed to the
RF power.  When the filament starts to heat up, its electrical
resistance starts to rise in a way that is related to its
exposed power level.

If I recall correctly, Bolometers were used in a bridge circuit,
where you applied AC power, and the bridge measured the resistance
of the filament.  Next, you applied DC power, increasing the
level until the resistance measured by the bridge matched that of
the unknown RF power source.  At that point, the DC power was equal
to the unknown RF power source's power.

-Chuck Harris

Tobias Pluess wrote:

Show quoted text

Peter,

it seems to be possible. This is exactly what this guy has done:
(This type of sensor is also known as Bolometer, apparently.)

However, I would not expect a terribly good accuracy.
To get rid of the ambient temperature impact, two resistors can be used where the one of the resistors is always kept, say, 30K hotter than the other. This way the ambient temperature cancels out.

FS 5086-1702

#92738

For sale 5086-1702 phase locked DRO 3.6 Ghz 2nd LO for E444XA (made by Elcom model S-1006A) : several units some used and tested for phase lock and power output (+2 dbm, in specs between +1 and +3), some repaired with the same power output. PM please

Re: Issue with homemade diode power sensor for HP meters

#92737

开云体育

You mean apart from the fact that they are the only truly accurate RMS RF sensors, and that all calibration is referred back to this type of sensor?

?

David

?

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of n2msqrp
Sent: 20 November 2018 14:34
To: [email protected]; RFI-EMI-GUY
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Issue with homemade diode power sensor for HP meters

?

What is the business case for thermocouple based power?meters when you can get the same function?with silicon at a lower price:

Re: 50 ohm thermocouples was RE: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Issue with homemade diode power sensor for HP meters

#92736

Peter,

it seems to be possible. This is exactly what this guy has done:
(This type of sensor is also known as Bolometer, apparently.)

However, I would not expect a terribly good accuracy.
To get rid of the ambient temperature impact, two resistors can be used where the one of the resistors is always kept, say, 30K hotter than the other. This way the ambient temperature cancels out.

Re: Issue with homemade diode power sensor for HP meters

#92735

What is the business case for thermocouple based power?meters when you can get the same function?with silicon at a lower price:

<>

One of the applications which accelerated development these detectors was the Cell Phone industry which required accurate signal strength readings (RSSI). One of he first devices that Hams used for this function was the NE604 FM IF system which had an accurate RSSI detector. This device is still available as the SA604A which has a wider temperature range:

Alas, technology moves on.

Mike N2MS

?

Show quoted text

On November 19, 2018 at 4:42 PM RFI-EMI-GUY <rhyolite@...> wrote:

Is there any other company on the planet who produces 50 OHM thermocouples? It seems odd that such a thing is unobtainable.

Re: 50 ohm thermocouples was RE: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Issue with homemade diode power sensor for HP meters

#92734

Do you know the thermocouple type?  And the resistor power rating?

I’m just wondering if it might be possible to solder a micro thermocouple to a extra small surface mount resistor. 

Peter

Show quoted text

On Nov 20, 2018, at 9:12 AM, Artekmedia <manuals@...> wrote:

Thermocouples with an embeded 50 ohm resistor..The 50 ohm resistor is the heater and thermocouple generates a voltage
proportional to the heat gnerated in the resistor

Dave
manuals@...

On 11/20/2018 7:41 AM, Glenn Little wrote:
Are these thermocouples or thermistors?

These are different.

Glenn
WB4UIV

On 11/19/2018 11:45 PM, John E. Burgar wrote:

General Microwave used to make thinfilm 50 ohm thermocouples for their power meter sensors. I don’t know if they are in business any more. Regards, John Burgar

*From:*[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *RFI-EMI-GUY
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 1:42 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Issue with homemade diode power sensor for HP meters

Is there any other company on the planet who produces 50 OHM thermocouples? It seems odd that such a thing is unobtainable.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glenn Little                ARRL Technical Specialist   QCWA  LM 28417
Amateur Callsign:  WB4UIVwb4uiv@...     AMSAT LM 2178
QTH:  Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx)  USSVI LM   NRA LM   SBE ARRL TAPR
"It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class
of the Amateur that holds the license"-- 
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com

Re: 50 ohm thermocouples was RE: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Issue with homemade diode power sensor for HP meters

#92733

Thermocouples with an embeded 50 ohm resistor..The 50 ohm resistor is the heater and thermocouple generates a voltage
proportional to the heat gnerated in the resistor

Dave
manuals@...

Show quoted text

On 11/20/2018 7:41 AM, Glenn Little wrote:
Are these thermocouples or thermistors?

These are different.

Glenn
WB4UIV

On 11/19/2018 11:45 PM, John E. Burgar wrote:

General Microwave used to make thinfilm 50 ohm thermocouples for their power meter sensors. I don’t know if they are in business any more. Regards, John Burgar

*From:*[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *RFI-EMI-GUY
*Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 1:42 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Issue with homemade diode power sensor for HP meters

Is there any other company on the planet who produces 50 OHM thermocouples? It seems odd that such a thing is unobtainable.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glenn Little                ARRL Technical Specialist   QCWA  LM 28417
Amateur Callsign:  WB4UIVwb4uiv@...     AMSAT LM 2178
QTH:  Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx)  USSVI LM   NRA LM   SBE ARRL TAPR
"It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class
of the Amateur that holds the license"

-- 
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com

Re: Readings from 436A power meter using 82357B USB-GPIB?

#92732

开云体育

REN should not be deactivated to take a reading. 436 must stay in Remote. I have sent you a 436A Operating and Service Manual. Read Section 3.

?

Bill Lauchlan

?

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Staffan
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 8:13 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Readings from 436A power meter using 82357B USB-GPIB?

?

Hello,

?

Many thanks. I have been successful in all the steps you mention using the Arduino converter, but I need to activate REN for sending a command and then deactivate REN before reading.?

This is not possible (controlling REN) using 82357 - or is there a way? I’m fairly sure this is the issue with the 436 (REN).

?

Regards,

?Staffan

On Tuesday, November 20, 2018, Dave_G0WBX via Groups.Io <g8kbvdave=[email protected]> wrote:

A simple task...

But it is NOT IEE488.2 compliant, so will not respond to such things as
*IDN? etc.? (In fact, traffic like that can totally mess it up at times,
as can other automated tricks to attempt to catalogue "live" devices on
the bus..)

Modern GPIB systems will handle all the global un-listen, selected
device addressing and so on for you, making life much easier.? If you
create your own GPIB controller, you have to do all that yourself.

Make sure you know it's device address on the bus.? Ours is defaulted to
a primary address of '13' (decimal.)??? AFIK (oddly, I cant find the
detail in our manual!)? The address setting is a bank of switches
internally.??? If you need to "scan the bus" to find it, you may need to
manually reset the thing after you know it's address, as it's a simple
state machine in hard logic internally, and can get "upset" by command
data it cant understand.

Anyway, when you know it's bus address...?? And it's Talk Mode is set to
"Normal".

Send it the command '9A+I' (not the quotes!) with no trailing terminator
byte, with or without EOI asserted, it doesn’t care about that.? That
command instructs it to send back a reading scaled in Watts.? (Or '9D+I'
in which case It will scale in dB/dBm.)

Use Watt's initially, as a no input signal condition, will still result
in a valid reading!

Give it a little time to figure things out...

When you then ask the system to read back the resulting "measurement".

The 436A will send a 14 byte fixed format ASCII string to the
controller, ending in a CR/LF pair, so your GPIB system needs to be
configured to stop reading when it sees a LF byte (ASCII code 10, or
0x0A)? The 436A does not use the EOI line, so you MUST configure your
bus controller to recognise that LF byte to signify the end of it's
reply, or to stop reading after 14 bytes have been received.

The first byte (byte 0) is the status. ('P' = valid reading.? Anything
else is under/over range.)

Bytes 3 to 11 represent the measured value, in scientific format (Mantissa).

Byte 3 is a sign (ASCII space = +) or and ASCII -

Bytes 4..7 are the measured value, an implied decimal point is
immediately after byte 7.

Byte 8 is always an 'E'.

Byte 9 is always a - sign.

Bytes 10 .. 11 is the Exponent.

Bytes 12..13 are CR/LF

It's all ASCII characters, so no "funny" stuff.

The above comes from table 3-4 on page 3-25 of the operating and service
manual.

It's up to you to process that string to test for validity, and extract
the value.

It is highly recommended to get a copy of at operator/service manual.?
(I only have a dead tree version.)

Hope this helps.

Dave B (G0WBX)

--
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source software.
::