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Re: HP 3455a DVM repair

Bob Albert
 

I replaced R14 and now get about +29 volts both sides of the diodes, exactly the same voltage.

The bad news is that the unit still doesn't work.? But the symptoms are different so I have to see what's going on.

Bob

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 10:22:43 PM PDT, Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> wrote:


R12?? Both sides.

Looking like it's U2 at the moment..., with Q7, Q8 next in line.? If the main amplifier is working correctly, either side of the diodes should be pretty much the same.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 5:09 PM Bob Albert via <bob91343=[email protected]> wrote:
24.50 and 24.04 on each side of the diodes.

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 04:51:49 PM PDT, Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> wrote:


So, it's looking like the main amplifier.? We can look at U2's inputs by measuring both sides of CR4 or CR5 (they are in parallel).

They are above and to the right of TP5, close to J1;
from below the right end of J1, L to R with J1 uppermost, the components are: CR4, CR5, U2, R11, C4, R12, R13

Then look at U2's output by measuring both sides of R12. ?(One side of R13 goes to TP4, the other to R12.)


On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:04 PM Bob Albert via <bob91343=[email protected]> wrote:
U5 pin 2, 13, 14 read -22, -14, -22 V respectively

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 03:55:41 PM PDT, Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> wrote:


Two should be -24V, the other should (I think) be close to TP3.? I suspect you'll find one a diode drop from TP4.
Re: HP 3455a DVM repair

 

On 2020-04-02, at 22:25, Bob Albert via groups.io <bob91343@...> wrote:

Unfortunately, the Artek scan isn't free, so I will have to pass on that.
That of course is your choice.

Are you going to do the repair with free replacement parts, as well?
And the power that you will be running this with, also free?
The coffee you drink while repairing it?

Most of us here believe that those $7.50 will be extremely well-spent.
(And will likely be recovered already by less shotgunning of replacement parts.
Not to speak about the time wasted by flying blind.)

Gr¨¹?e, Carsten

(I¡¯m an ¡°Information wants to be free¡± guy as much as anybody else here, but I still pay the entrance fee for a museum, because I recognize the people that keep that museum open need to live from something.)
Re: HP 3455a DVM repair

Bob Albert
 

Orin, I found it!? R14 is burned.? Diagram says 100 Ohms, and it measures around 4k and is all blackened.

I imagine it didn't burn by itself so now I have to see what took it out.? I am guessing Q8 is shorted but it could be Q7.? And maybe CR7 and CR8.

Now I have something I can deal with.

Bob

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 10:22:43 PM PDT, Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> wrote:


R12?? Both sides.

Looking like it's U2 at the moment..., with Q7, Q8 next in line.? If the main amplifier is working correctly, either side of the diodes should be pretty much the same.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 5:09 PM Bob Albert via <bob91343=[email protected]> wrote:
24.50 and 24.04 on each side of the diodes.

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 04:51:49 PM PDT, Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> wrote:


So, it's looking like the main amplifier.? We can look at U2's inputs by measuring both sides of CR4 or CR5 (they are in parallel).

They are above and to the right of TP5, close to J1;
from below the right end of J1, L to R with J1 uppermost, the components are: CR4, CR5, U2, R11, C4, R12, R13

Then look at U2's output by measuring both sides of R12. ?(One side of R13 goes to TP4, the other to R12.)


On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:04 PM Bob Albert via <bob91343=[email protected]> wrote:
U5 pin 2, 13, 14 read -22, -14, -22 V respectively

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 03:55:41 PM PDT, Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> wrote:


Two should be -24V, the other should (I think) be close to TP3.? I suspect you'll find one a diode drop from TP4.
Re: HP 3455a DVM repair

Bob Albert
 

Should I replace U2 or maybe Q7 and Q8?? With what?? Those have proprietary HP numbers I am sure.

But maybe a bit more troubleshooting to make sure.? No sense in replacing all three parts when perhaps they are all good.? It's not simple to remove parts without damage to the board, I think it's double sided and takes a lot of heat.

Bob

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 10:22:43 PM PDT, Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> wrote:


R12?? Both sides.

Looking like it's U2 at the moment..., with Q7, Q8 next in line.? If the main amplifier is working correctly, either side of the diodes should be pretty much the same.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 5:09 PM Bob Albert via <bob91343=[email protected]> wrote:
24.50 and 24.04 on each side of the diodes.

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 04:51:49 PM PDT, Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> wrote:


So, it's looking like the main amplifier.? We can look at U2's inputs by measuring both sides of CR4 or CR5 (they are in parallel).

They are above and to the right of TP5, close to J1;
from below the right end of J1, L to R with J1 uppermost, the components are: CR4, CR5, U2, R11, C4, R12, R13

Then look at U2's output by measuring both sides of R12. ?(One side of R13 goes to TP4, the other to R12.)


On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:04 PM Bob Albert via <bob91343=[email protected]> wrote:
U5 pin 2, 13, 14 read -22, -14, -22 V respectively

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 03:55:41 PM PDT, Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> wrote:


Two should be -24V, the other should (I think) be close to TP3.? I suspect you'll find one a diode drop from TP4.
Re: HP 8590A SA Problem

 

Thank to suggestions from the group I was able to find the offending cap and replace it(C310) and that was the cure. The SA is working great!

Marty
KL7AM
Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?

 

Getting there.. I think.. I found an old ghost explorer version 6.03 that came to live on my windows 7 laptop I use for Volvo VIDA and the Rosstech tools for my cars.

I was able to recover all the files from the .gho file to a folder and to a "new: hard drive. A total of 647Mb and 5023 files in 222 folders.? The files I was able to recover from my old drive was 280MB in 74 folders and 2363 files.

Looks like the 3.5 is Windows 98.? ?Hopefully I have enough memory.

I will try to create a boot floppy tomorrow and see if I can make the hard drive bookable...? This is giving me bad flashbacks... I went from Sinclair ZX 81 to Sinclair Spectrum to Wax 11/780 to Mac to Windows NT, XP, 7 and 10.? I never dealt with windows 95,98 and Vista.

Ulf
Re: HP 3455a DVM repair

 

R12?? Both sides.

Looking like it's U2 at the moment..., with Q7, Q8 next in line.? If the main amplifier is working correctly, either side of the diodes should be pretty much the same.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 5:09 PM Bob Albert via <bob91343=[email protected]> wrote:
24.50 and 24.04 on each side of the diodes.

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 04:51:49 PM PDT, Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> wrote:


So, it's looking like the main amplifier.? We can look at U2's inputs by measuring both sides of CR4 or CR5 (they are in parallel).

They are above and to the right of TP5, close to J1;
from below the right end of J1, L to R with J1 uppermost, the components are: CR4, CR5, U2, R11, C4, R12, R13

Then look at U2's output by measuring both sides of R12. ?(One side of R13 goes to TP4, the other to R12.)


On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:04 PM Bob Albert via <bob91343=[email protected]> wrote:
U5 pin 2, 13, 14 read -22, -14, -22 V respectively

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 03:55:41 PM PDT, Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> wrote:


Two should be -24V, the other should (I think) be close to TP3.? I suspect you'll find one a diode drop from TP4.
Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?

 

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 06:46 PM, Glen Slick wrote:
nd if you attach

Interesting... Yes, there are two IDE headers. Luckily I had a DVD unit from around 2000 and a cable but the un-lucky thing is that the IDE header on the motherboard have all pins populated... The IDE cable I found in my 2000 vintage machine has a missing hole to prevent it from going in backwards.? Not sure when that change was.? The first machine I built was in 98 and that had SCSI... There is a full 40 pin ribbon cable going over to a board and the hard drive connects to that.card.

It turned out that I don't have a XP machine that runs.? I tried a few versions of Ghost but no luck getting them to run.? I will look around for a old machine.? I did find a similar vintage hard drive. Its a bit larger than the original but from around 2000. I found it in a old USB hard drive.
Re: Fixing a sick 4332A LCR meter

 

On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 12:09 PM, Joel Setton wrote:
problem is either in the oscillator (look at the emitter of A2Q2) or the low-Zout amplifier (A1 IC5).
Looks like A2Q2 is a FET...which pin did you mean?
Re: Fixing a sick 4332A LCR meter

 

Hi Joel,

I got the Artek scan...MUCH better! I'm going to work through the troubleshooting steps again now that I can read all the diagrams!

Is it supposed to peg off scale though? The ohmmeter functionality of my 427A does not do this. The needle swings to the right side of the scale, naturally, but it doesn't peg. Anyway, a 1K resistor measures about 100 ohms.

Sean


On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 01:03 AM, Joel Setton wrote:
Hello Sean,

I think we're making progress !
The 12 kHz, 20mV p/p signal is a sign that there's something wrong in the oscillator, but the good news is that nothing seems to be completely "fried". We'll have a closer look at the oscillator and low-Z amplifier whenever you have time.
Then of course, seeing the needle moving completely off-scale in Ohms with an open-circuit input is normal in any well-behaved ohmmeter (the same is true in L mode, since open-circuit is equivalent to "infinite" inductance).
Did you try to measure a 1 kOhm resistor ? This is bound to tell us something.

So there's hope, your meter is not very far from full functionality !

SIncerely,

Joel Setton
Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?

 

On Wed, Apr 1, 2020, 9:58 PM <ujonsson@...> wrote:
Hi,? My loved 54810A died on me.? It is the oldest Gen 1 unit no VIN running 95 and it has not been upgraded.? I did read up on the recovery process from the HP documentation and I have the version 3.5 disc image.??I can open the ISO and I find the files listed below files.?

HP suggested that one use a printer port CD Drive to recover it. The Ghost.EXE wont run on my win10 machine.?I do have an XP machine I might get GHOST to run on but it is a laptop.?

Any suggestion?? Another option but at a $250 cost would be to buy a drive from ebay but with all the uncertainty I rather do my part of bring the economy to a standstill :-(? ? a few month ago I would just have shelled out the $250 but...

Here are the files on the ISO.
GHOST.EXE
hp548cd.inf
HP548RCV.GHO

Regards,

Ulf


If it's not too difficult to access the motherboard in the?54810A can you see if there is a second IDE connector that is currently unused on the motherboard? If there is, maybe you could temporarily attach an IDE CD-ROM drive to the motherboard if you have a spare drive or could borrow one from another machine.

Maybe the recovery CD is bootable?and if you attach a CD-ROM drive you can configure the BIOS to boot from it. The recovery CD/DVDs I have used for Agilent 1680/16900 logic analyzers are bootable?and automatically start the Ghost recovery process when you boot from them.
Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?

 

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 02:26 PM, David DiGiacomo wrote:
hard drive t
Thanks!

I think Ghost run under DOS. Was probably 25 years since I used it.? I never used it for cloning a drive that was not the primary drive but 25 is a long time... I might actually have an original program in a envelope somewhere.

I tried to run the GHOST.EXE under vDOS but that did not work,??

I get CauseWay Error 07 : Unable to control A20 when trying Ghost under vDOS.? I will try to see if it can run on a XP machine.

Ulf
Re: 8510C questions and cabling

 

Chuck,

That is page 1-3 of the document I referenced in my post. Neither of my 851x A/B test sets has the source interface. However, I just noticed a note on that page that the source interface is only used with the 8516A. The figure is much too busy.

You don't mention the J10/J11 test set interconnect in your list. There is no display on the 83631B, so without connecting it to the 85101A & 85102A there is no way to get anything displayed.

Reg
Re: HP 3455a DVM repair

Bob Albert
 

24.50 and 24.04 on each side of the diodes.

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 04:51:49 PM PDT, Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> wrote:


So, it's looking like the main amplifier.? We can look at U2's inputs by measuring both sides of CR4 or CR5 (they are in parallel).

They are above and to the right of TP5, close to J1;
from below the right end of J1, L to R with J1 uppermost, the components are: CR4, CR5, U2, R11, C4, R12, R13

Then look at U2's output by measuring both sides of R12. ?(One side of R13 goes to TP4, the other to R12.)


On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:04 PM Bob Albert via <bob91343=[email protected]> wrote:
U5 pin 2, 13, 14 read -22, -14, -22 V respectively

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 03:55:41 PM PDT, Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> wrote:


Two should be -24V, the other should (I think) be close to TP3.? I suspect you'll find one a diode drop from TP4.
Re: HP 3455a DVM repair

 

So, it's looking like the main amplifier.? We can look at U2's inputs by measuring both sides of CR4 or CR5 (they are in parallel).

They are above and to the right of TP5, close to J1;
from below the right end of J1, L to R with J1 uppermost, the components are: CR4, CR5, U2, R11, C4, R12, R13

Then look at U2's output by measuring both sides of R12. ?(One side of R13 goes to TP4, the other to R12.)


On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:04 PM Bob Albert via <bob91343=[email protected]> wrote:
U5 pin 2, 13, 14 read -22, -14, -22 V respectively

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 03:55:41 PM PDT, Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> wrote:


Two should be -24V, the other should (I think) be close to TP3.? I suspect you'll find one a diode drop from TP4.
Re: HP 3455a DVM repair

Bob Albert
 

U5 pin 2, 13, 14 read -22, -14, -22 V respectively

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 03:55:41 PM PDT, Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> wrote:


Two should be -24V, the other should (I think) be close to TP3.? I suspect you'll find one a diode drop from TP4.


On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 3:27 PM Bob Albert via <bob91343=[email protected]> wrote:
Orin you say to take a look at U5 2,13, 14 but what should I see?

Bob

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 03:08:09 PM PDT, Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> wrote:


On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 1:25 PM Bob Albert via <bob91343=[email protected]> wrote:
Unfortunately, the Artek scan isn't free, so I will have to pass on that.

Back to the hardware, the readout shows OL on the high ranges and zeros on the low ranges.? I don't understand the relationships with the range settings, autocal, and autozero.? Sometimes TP4 shows -14V and sometimes -13V.? TP3 shows the input from the panel but not always.? This unit is way over my head.


TP3 should be close to whatever is being measured, whether it's the input or one of the auto-cal constants. ? So best to turn autocal off or the relays will be ticking and TP3 changing.

TP4 being so low seems to indicate the main amplifier isn't working correctly.? There is negative feedback through Q18, Q19 or Q21 to Q17 from TP4.? They are controlled by A10U5.? I'd take a look at U5 pins 2, 13 and 14 that control the FET switches.

Orin.?
Re: HP 3455a DVM repair

 

Two should be -24V, the other should (I think) be close to TP3.? I suspect you'll find one a diode drop from TP4.


On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 3:27 PM Bob Albert via <bob91343=[email protected]> wrote:
Orin you say to take a look at U5 2,13, 14 but what should I see?

Bob

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 03:08:09 PM PDT, Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> wrote:


On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 1:25 PM Bob Albert via <bob91343=[email protected]> wrote:
Unfortunately, the Artek scan isn't free, so I will have to pass on that.

Back to the hardware, the readout shows OL on the high ranges and zeros on the low ranges.? I don't understand the relationships with the range settings, autocal, and autozero.? Sometimes TP4 shows -14V and sometimes -13V.? TP3 shows the input from the panel but not always.? This unit is way over my head.


TP3 should be close to whatever is being measured, whether it's the input or one of the auto-cal constants. ? So best to turn autocal off or the relays will be ticking and TP3 changing.

TP4 being so low seems to indicate the main amplifier isn't working correctly.? There is negative feedback through Q18, Q19 or Q21 to Q17 from TP4.? They are controlled by A10U5.? I'd take a look at U5 pins 2, 13 and 14 that control the FET switches.

Orin.?
Re: HP 3455a DVM repair

Bob Albert
 

Orin you say to take a look at U5 2,13, 14 but what should I see?

Bob

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 03:08:09 PM PDT, Orin Eman <orin.eman@...> wrote:


On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 1:25 PM Bob Albert via <bob91343=[email protected]> wrote:
Unfortunately, the Artek scan isn't free, so I will have to pass on that.

Back to the hardware, the readout shows OL on the high ranges and zeros on the low ranges.? I don't understand the relationships with the range settings, autocal, and autozero.? Sometimes TP4 shows -14V and sometimes -13V.? TP3 shows the input from the panel but not always.? This unit is way over my head.


TP3 should be close to whatever is being measured, whether it's the input or one of the auto-cal constants. ? So best to turn autocal off or the relays will be ticking and TP3 changing.

TP4 being so low seems to indicate the main amplifier isn't working correctly.? There is negative feedback through Q18, Q19 or Q21 to Q17 from TP4.? They are controlled by A10U5.? I'd take a look at U5 pins 2, 13 and 14 that control the FET switches.

Orin.?
Re: 8510C questions and cabling

 

Hi Reg,

Here is a card that could be helpful to you. If it doesn't come
across, it is called the HP8510C Pre Flight Checkout.

The 83610B has all sorts of options. No options is best, as I recall.
Press its preset button, and it will set itself up in sweep mode at
its full frequency range. This will tell you if it is the 45MHz option,
or the 10MHz option... or,you can just try tuning it down there.

There are only 6 cables that connect the sweeper:

1) HPIB to the ANA's hub (not the external hub)
2) RF output to the test set's RF input.
3) Stop Sweep
4) Trigger
5) Source Interface
6) 10MHz reference.


I have used the 8350B, and am currently using an 8340B, so I haven't
actually tried the above connections.

-Chuck Harris

Reginald Beardsley via groups.io wrote:

I just received an 83631B sweeper to complete my 8510C. In reading the service quick reference guide, 08510-90317, I see there are lots of gotchas and a bunch of cables I need, not all of which have HP part numbers listed clearly. It's also not clear which ones are needed when. In addition there are numerous notes about not making certain connections, but it's not clear which cable the reference is to.

So here is what I have so far:

85101C / 3031A opt 010, 011

85102A / 2546A opt H0 w/ 85103A sticker dated 10/13/1987 and 8530A front panel label

83631B / 3844A w/ Agilent refurbished Jun 2000 sticker

8515A / 3602A

8512A / 2345A

Neither the 8512A nor 8515A have the source interface port shown on p 1-3 of the service quick reference. Does that present a problem?

The only cable I have at present is the 85101C to 85102A connection. I also have an HP floppy with the 8530A FW. The 8510C is what is currently loaded. I've not tried to read the 8530A disk yet.

So now to questions:

What other cables do I need?

What do I need to use it in 8530A mode?

Can the 8512A and 8515A be connected at the same time?

Are any of the units incompatible?

What do I need to do to bring this up?

I've seen the 83631B listed as 10 MHz to 26.6 GHz and 45 MHz to 26.6 GHz. How does one tell which is the case? Is it test set dependent at the low frequency?

I'm a hardcore Unix guy. Is it worth hunting down an HP 9000 series to use with it or can I use more recent computers e.g. HP Z400?

HP-UX would have me trying to admin 5 distinct operating systems. Working entirely alone, I've discovered that it really taxes my memory switching between the 4 I'm already running.

I've read a good bit of 8510 documentation, but the system is so complex that I'm not sure I've even found all of it, much less read everything I need to read.

Thanks,
Reg



HP8510C-Pre_Flight_Checkout.pdf
HP8510C-Pre_Flight_Checkout.pdf

Re: HP 3455a DVM repair

 

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 1:25 PM Bob Albert via <bob91343=[email protected]> wrote:
Unfortunately, the Artek scan isn't free, so I will have to pass on that.

Back to the hardware, the readout shows OL on the high ranges and zeros on the low ranges.? I don't understand the relationships with the range settings, autocal, and autozero.? Sometimes TP4 shows -14V and sometimes -13V.? TP3 shows the input from the panel but not always.? This unit is way over my head.


TP3 should be close to whatever is being measured, whether it's the input or one of the auto-cal constants. ? So best to turn autocal off or the relays will be ticking and TP3 changing.

TP4 being so low seems to indicate the main amplifier isn't working correctly.? There is negative feedback through Q18, Q19 or Q21 to Q17 from TP4.? They are controlled by A10U5.? I'd take a look at U5 pins 2, 13 and 14 that control the FET switches.

Orin.?
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