Re: VXI documentation, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
On 4/20/20 10:07 AM, garp6 wrote: When able,? perhaps a " bit " at a time ;-)? would you be willing to
upload all of your VXI docs to theKO4BB's website ? That's a lot of documentation. Most of the HP/Agilent/Keysight VXI manuals that I have were downloaded from Keysight's web site, and the Tektronix ones were obtained from Tektronix. Some of it has disappeared from Keysight, but not much yet. Is it really practical to just start bulk-uploading that stuff to KO4BB? -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
I had my day with optimizing "done" software once, back in
the late 70's. I was an intern with United States Railway
Association, the creators of Conrail. I was part of the effort
that was known as the "Historic Abandonment Act".
Attached to every single program used for data entry was a
silly looking polynomial equation that was used to calculate
a check code to verify that the surveyor's data form
identification numbers were entered correctly.
The equation was written in a way that kept burning my eyes
every time I saw it. It was so clearly an unrolled simple loop
that I changed it from a 10 line chain calculation into a 1 line
loop. The loop was short, simple, and easy to understand.
While I was patting myself on the back, my boss called me into
his area, and asked me why I did that?
After I got over the shock that he was watching me key in code,
I explained it to him, and he said something like, "Wow, that's
beautiful. I like that... Please don't do it anymore!"
What???
Don't do it anymore. I can see that what you did is simpler,
easy to do correctly, and hard to get wrong, but if it for
some weird compiler reason botches the calculation, it will be
all of our asses. Don't do it, just copy and paste the routine
we gave you... like everyone else does...
I got much more challenging programming work after that, and an
offer for a permanent job... But I was one year away from my
BSEE degree, so I politely declined the offer.
-Chuck Harris
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Yes. It IS possible for a piece of software to actually be "done".
But young(er) programmers these days just don't think that way.
-Dave
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Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
On 4/20/20 4:01 PM, Toby wrote: Yes. It IS possible for a piece of software to actually be "done".
But young(er) programmers these days just don't think that way. Programmers are not the owners and they don't get to make such a judgment.
Go up the chain and ask everyone in between the owners and the
programmers whether their systems are "done" or "finished".
This is exactly the root cause of the many reasons why I do not use commercial software if I can possibly avoid it. (which I almost always can) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
On 2020-04-20 3:29 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: On 4/20/20 3:21 PM, Dave Seiter wrote:
Part of this is, of course, due to the size and cost of available
memory.? Back then, software of any kind (usually) had to be compact and
elegant just in order to fit into the available space.? Both my high
school and JC instructors talked about the need for elegant and
efficient code.? Now, memory is so cheap and spaces so immense, that
code doesn't need to be well written.?? It DOES, though. I feel (and increasingly I think I'm alone in this!)
that inefficiency is inherently bad. Having lots of memory available
doesn't make code unnecessarily fat...laziness does.
I remember working with a IT guy about 7 years ago on a a fairly simple
program that formatted the output from one database so it could be read
by another database.? His code was thousands of lines, and at least 50%
were comments.? I couldn't follow what was going on even with the
comments.? When asked about it, he grinned sheepishly and said "yeah,
it's kind of a mess...". Yuck!
The thing I really hate is when perfectly good, usable software gets
updated just to keep the coders employed.? They usually end up breaking
something or make it harder to use.? New features are not necessarily a
good thing! Yes. It IS possible for a piece of software to actually be "done".
But young(er) programmers these days just don't think that way. Programmers are not the owners and they don't get to make such a judgment. Go up the chain and ask everyone in between the owners and the programmers whether their systems are "done" or "finished". --Toby
-Dave
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Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
Oh, I completely agree, but I don't think most newly minted coders do.? Besides, releasing poor code means you get to stay employed in order to fix it.
The main database I was using was constantly being upgraded, and (in my opinion) always beta ware, except for the first iteration.? They did have to update it every two years to keep up with requirement changes, and they also provided updates every quarter or so.? Sometimes the updates helped, but twice we had to restore the previous version because things broke. To be fair, I was using some features in ways they weren't meant to be used, but that was because I needed features that weren't available.
-Dave
On Monday, April 20, 2020, 12:29:33 PM PDT, Dave McGuire <mcguire@...> wrote:
On 4/20/20 3:21 PM, Dave Seiter wrote: > Part of this is, of course, due to the size and cost of available > memory.? Back then, software of any kind (usually) had to be compact and > elegant just in order to fit into the available space.? Both my high > school and JC instructors talked about the need for elegant and > efficient code.? Now, memory is so cheap and spaces so immense, that > code doesn't need to be well written.?? ? It DOES, though.? I feel (and increasingly I think I'm alone in this!) that inefficiency is inherently bad.? Having lots of memory available doesn't make code unnecessarily fat...laziness does.
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Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
On 4/20/20 3:21 PM, Dave Seiter wrote: Part of this is, of course, due to the size and cost of available
memory.? Back then, software of any kind (usually) had to be compact and
elegant just in order to fit into the available space.? Both my high
school and JC instructors talked about the need for elegant and
efficient code.? Now, memory is so cheap and spaces so immense, that
code doesn't need to be well written.?? It DOES, though. I feel (and increasingly I think I'm alone in this!) that inefficiency is inherently bad. Having lots of memory available doesn't make code unnecessarily fat...laziness does. I remember working with a IT guy about 7 years ago on a a fairly simple
program that formatted the output from one database so it could be read
by another database.? His code was thousands of lines, and at least 50%
were comments.? I couldn't follow what was going on even with the
comments.? When asked about it, he grinned sheepishly and said "yeah,
it's kind of a mess...". Yuck! The thing I really hate is when perfectly good, usable software gets
updated just to keep the coders employed.? They usually end up breaking
something or make it harder to use.? New features are not necessarily a
good thing! Yes. It IS possible for a piece of software to actually be "done". But young(er) programmers these days just don't think that way. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
Part of this is, of course, due to the size and cost of available memory.? Back then, software of any kind (usually) had to be compact and elegant just in order to fit into the available space.? Both my high school and JC instructors talked about the need for elegant and efficient code.? Now, memory is so cheap and spaces so immense, that code doesn't need to be well written.??
I remember working with a IT guy about 7 years ago on a a fairly simple program that formatted the output from one database so it could be read by another database.? His code was thousands of lines, and at least 50% were comments.? I couldn't follow what was going on even with the comments.? When asked about it, he grinned sheepishly and said "yeah, it's kind of a mess...".
The thing I really hate is when perfectly good, usable software gets updated just to keep the coders employed.? They usually end up breaking something or make it harder to use.? New features are not necessarily a good thing!
-Dave
? Also sometime in the 1970s, another moron, probably related to the one
described above, said "programmer time is more valuable than processor
time".? This similarly caused the laziest programmers to act as if
they'd be unchained, and the decline of computing efficiency, and caring
about same, began.? This is why modern OSs require multi-GHz clock
speeds and billions of bytes of memory just to boot, much less get any
work done.
? If I ever get my hands around the neck of either of these men, they
will have a difficult day.
????????????? -Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Re: Agilent 8753es Option 11 and TDR Measurements...
I believe it.? Antenna gain makes up for low transmitter power and free space loss.? In fact, the 5G cellular systems coming online in the millimeter wave frequency bands depend on it.? Free space loss goes up with frequency, but antenna gain also does proportionally.? Lots and lots of details still to be worked out, but at least the math says it can work.
I've lived or working in the Valley and South Bay, so I'm familiar with both areas.? I worked at Lockheed Advanced Development Co. in Burbank from 1988 to 1993 and lived in Torrance and Lomita from 1991 to 1993.? The path distance you describe is probably 25 to 30 miles (maybe 40 to 50 km, as a guess), for those not familiar with Southern California.? Oh, and some (small) mountains in between).
Jim Ford
------ Original Message ------
Sent: 4/20/2020 9:00:33 AM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Agilent 8753es Option 11 and TDR Measurements...
John,
About 10 or so years ago I had to make some base impedance measurements
on a new AM array in the San Fernando Valley.? I was using a signal
generator/synchronous detector with my bridge.? The combination used
39 Hz modulation. The generator produced about one-half watt. My friend,
Craig, WA6RAT was walking around in Torrance with his AM Walkman radio
and he reported to me that he could clearly hear the
"sputtering" of the 39 Hz modulation.? It's amazing what a
QRP rig into a good antenna will do.
Burt, K6OQK
Re: Agilent 8753es Option 11 and TDR Measurements...
From:
Burt K6OQK
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 16:48:28 PDT
John,
That's become a way of life in the Los Angeles area with the TV re-pack
going on and a lot of FM antennas having to be relocated and re-tuned -
even in the daytime hours. :)
Burt, K6OQK
?
Re: Agilent 8753es Option 11 and TDR Measurements...
From:
John Gord
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 13:27:34 PDT
Burt,
Good distance resolution on TDR usually requires wide bandwidth, so you
might upset some folks with significant out of channel power on a live
antenna.
--John
Burt I. Weiner Associates
Broadcast Technical Services
Glendale, California U.S.A.
biwa@...
K6OQK
-- Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, CA 91201 U.S.A. K6OQK
|
Problem with HP MMS 70000, USERLOCK ON
Hello,
After a long period of non use of my MMS 70k I decided to use it again to measure some NF with the 70875A DLP software.
A new calibration of the spectrum was done OK.
I loaded the 70875A DLP software and after some manipulation I realized I could not use anymore the software.
Don't know what I did but impossible to return to the spectrum functionalities.
When I try to preset the instrument (green button) or the Menu function I got USERLOCK ON and impossible anymore to use the instrument.
How to go to the USERLOCK OFF back again and/or to reset the instrument?
I'm really stucked on this situation with the impossibility to use it again.
Thanks for your help.
--
Pierre-Fran?ois, F5BQP
JN18AN
|
Re: Batteries in 70000 modules
hi there,
I have a functioning HP R/332 series 9000 computer with both an HP floppy & HP hard drive.
I am also interested in getting the HP 70K MMS calibration software for my MMS system.
I don't have the HP 70K MMS software in any form, but HP floppies would be easier.
I am not an expert, but have used Rocky Mountain Basic (RMB) and HP's HPBasic as well as
the TransEra version of RMB that runs on a Win XP (& possibly a Wi 7) PC. I have also converted some?
HP Basic programs to run on the TransEra Win PC machines, not that difficult.
I am looking for? *any*? free .pdf's CLIP's ( Component Level Information Packages ) of HP70 K MMS systems or modules.
rick
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Re: Surprise new stash of HP manuals on line at Keysight
Hi Dave
Thank you for coming back regarding the sustainability
of the site and a memory jogger for me regarding its owner
Regards Paul
?
?
?
The owner is Didier Juges who you’ll have seen here, on Tekscopes
and other lists like Time-Nuts.
?
David
?
?
Hi I have used it? I was just
wondering who is the owner to find out how it is protected for years to com
?
Regards Paul
?
?
Paul,
? ? is of service to all, free,? aided by radio amateurs of the
world !
? try it, you will like it !!
No virus found in
this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
|
Re: Agilent 8753es Option 11 and TDR Measurements...
John,
About 10 or so years ago I had to make some base impedance measurements
on a new AM array in the San Fernando Valley.? I was using a signal
generator/synchronous detector with my bridge.? The combination used
39 Hz modulation. The generator produced about one-half watt. My friend,
Craig, WA6RAT was walking around in Torrance with his AM Walkman radio
and he reported to me that he could clearly hear the
"sputtering" of the 39 Hz modulation.? It's amazing what a
QRP rig into a good antenna will do.
Burt, K6OQK
Re: Agilent 8753es Option 11 and TDR Measurements...
From:
Burt K6OQK
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 16:48:28 PDT
John,
That's become a way of life in the Los Angeles area with the TV re-pack
going on and a lot of FM antennas having to be relocated and re-tuned -
even in the daytime hours. :)
Burt, K6OQK
?
Re: Agilent 8753es Option 11 and TDR Measurements...
From:
John Gord
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 13:27:34 PDT
Burt,
Good distance resolution on TDR usually requires wide bandwidth, so you
might upset some folks with significant out of channel power on a live
antenna.
--John
Burt I. Weiner Associates
Broadcast Technical Services
Glendale, California U.S.A.
biwa@...
K6OQK
--
Burt I. Weiner Associates
Broadcast Technical Services
Glendale, CA 91201 U.S.A.
K6OQK
|
Re: Surprise new stash of HP manuals on line at Keysight
It's easy to search the list - just click on "Edit" at the top of the screen, then select "Find on this page".
A search window will appear at the bottom of the screen.
Note - this is in Firefox - other browsers may have a different method.
|
Re: Surprise new stash of HP manuals on line at Keysight
The owner is Didier Juges who you’ll have seen here, on Tekscopes and other lists like Time-Nuts. ? David ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Bicknell
Sent: 20 April 2020 16:36
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Surprise new stash of HP manuals on line at Keysight? Hi I have used it? I was just wondering who is the owner to find out how it is protected for years to com ? Regards Paul ? ? Paul,
? ? is of service to all, free,? aided by radio amateurs of the world !
? try it, you will like it !! No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
|
Re: Surprise new stash of HP manuals on line at Keysight
It also has a plan continuation beyond the life of the owner … ? David ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of garp6
Sent: 20 April 2020 16:26
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Surprise new stash of HP manuals on line at Keysight ? Paul,
? ? is of service to all, free,? aided by radio amateurs of the world !
? try it, you will like it !!
|
Re: Surprise new stash of HP manuals on line at Keysight
As far as I can see, the website is "free" only because someone or some people pay for it. Contributions are encouraged.
See
Raymond
|
Re: Surprise new stash of HP manuals on line at Keysight
Hi I have used it? I was just wondering
who is the owner to find out how it is protected for years to com
?
Regards Paul
?
?
Paul,
? ? is of service to all, free,? aided by radio amateurs of the
world !
? try it, you will like it !!
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
|
Re: Surprise new stash of HP manuals on line at Keysight
Paul,
? ? is of service to all, free,? aided by radio amateurs of the world !
? try it, you will like it !!
|
Re: new File called App notes
Bill, would love to see what you do with your 400F, especially if I can copy it for my 400EL!?
I was also fortunate to be at HP Santa Clara for most of the 1970s ?(Division 02, the old “Frequency and Time” division that moved down from Palo Alto in the 1960s). Those were indeed good days, when HP had more money than it knew what to do with and “we need it” was sufficient justification for almost any purchase.?
Jeremy?
On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 11:09 PM Bill Perkins < sales@...> wrote: ? ? ? ? I'm younger than you but I wish I'd been in northern CA for "The Bill
and Dave Show" years.
? ? ? ? I've read a number of books about HP through "The Era" and am filled
with admiration; all the moreso when I turn on a 45-50yo network
analyzer and it not only lights up, it meets spec!
? ? ? ? Being in audio and one who does a lot of measurement of microvolt noise
floors, the HP 400F AC voltmeter is a piece I like a lot.
? ? ? ? I have several and have been thru them, done all the geriatric part
replacements, done some mods, changed out the ridiculous dual banana
inputs for BNCs and am about to replace the input JFETs with their about
80nv/rtHz equiv input noise for some some parts from Linear Integrated
that promise 2nv/rtHz and spec-wise look pretty much to be a drop in
replacement, amazingly.
? ? ? ? I'll advise when done, or beg help if I've done something dumb.
? ? ? ? Bill @ PEARL, Inc.
> As I remember and lived through (I am 77 years of age), HP was a company
> that innovated, invented and changed the testing industry. They treated
> their employees and customers with respect and were great educators, and
> made a great effort to educate all who were interested.
>
> As has been stated by others, much of their current management, as
> Keysight, doesn't even seem to know what business they are in, and
> really doesn't care.
? ? ? ? And more's the pity; all around . . .
> I am glad that I was around for the "golden years".
>
> Stuart K6YAZ
> West Hills, CA
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Glenn,
1DC4-0903 is a pn given to special hybrids produced internally at HP? Cannot imagine there would be a cross from an 1820-XXXX (purchased parts from external vendors) to an internal hybrid.? For example, the DC/AC/OHM hybrid I designed for the 3468/78 meters contains two custom designed fineline resistor chips and a silicon chip all wirebonded together and was designated? 1QF7-0067.? ?The HP3421 uses a variation of that hybrid without the AC fineline resistor network as the 3421 does not have an AC function.
George Hnatiuk
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Dave McGuire
Pierre-Fran?ois (f5bqp_pfm)
Paul Bicknell
Burt K6OQK
David C. Partridge
Jeremy Nichols
