Re: E4407B ESA spectrum analyzer starting up as wrong type
Yes, it should appear automatically. ? Yves ? Hello The board with the BNC on the back is seated but could be faulty. Should it show up in the Hardware list ?
Hi, Does your E4407B detect the hardware FREQUENCY EXTENSION? System More Show Hdrwr ? Yves ? ? Hi all I got the E4407B to boot and it is a E4407B with the needed hardware. But it boots as a 3GHz model. So where is it stored what type it is supposed to be. It does not sweep even as the 3GHz version.? Anyone know how get it back to E4407B. the Start screen says it is an E4407B but the highest frequency possible 3GHz best regards Peter OZ1LPR
|
Re: E4407B ESA spectrum analyzer starting up as wrong type
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hello The board with the BNC on the back is seated but could be faulty. Should it show up in the Hardware list ?
best regards Peter
Hi,
Does your E4407B detect the hardware FREQUENCY EXTENSION?
System
More
Show Hdrwr
?
Yves
?
?
Hi all I got the E4407B to boot and it is a E4407B with the needed hardware. But it boots as a 3GHz model. So where is it stored what type it is supposed to be. It does not sweep even as the 3GHz version.?
Anyone know how get it back to E4407B. the Start screen says it is an E4407B but the highest frequency possible 3GHz
best regards Peter OZ1LPR
|
Agilent 34461A schenmatic
Greetings,
?
Does anyone know where I might obtain a full schematic for the Agilent 34461A?
?
TIA,
Keith Harvey
|
Re: E4407B ESA spectrum analyzer starting up as wrong type
Hello The board with the BNC on the back is seated but could be faulty. Should it show up in the Hardware list ?
best regards Peter
Hi,
Does your E4407B detect the hardware FREQUENCY EXTENSION?
System
More
Show Hdrwr
?
Yves
?
?
Hi all I got the E4407B to boot and it is a E4407B with the needed hardware. But it boots as a 3GHz model. So where is it stored what type it is supposed to be. It does not sweep even as the
3GHz version.?
Anyone know how get it back to E4407B. the Start screen says it is an E4407B but the highest frequency possible 3GHz
best regards Peter OZ1LPR
|
Re: E4407B ESA spectrum analyzer starting up as wrong type
Hi, Does your E4407B detect the hardware FREQUENCY EXTENSION? System More Show Hdrwr ? Yves ? ? Hi all I got the E4407B to boot and it is a E4407B with the needed hardware. But it boots as a 3GHz model. So where is it stored what type it is supposed to be. It does not sweep even as the 3GHz version.? Anyone know how get it back to E4407B. the Start screen says it is an E4407B but the highest frequency possible 3GHz best regards Peter OZ1LPR
|
HP 4192A LF Impedance Analyzer Repair Assistance Needed
Hi,
First a disclaimer, I'm just a hobbyist with an only a couple of years of electronics experience under my belt. ?So it's possible I'm missing something very simple due to lack of basic understanding. ?I've had some good success repairing broken test equipment and could use some help with this HP 4192A I recently acquired.
?
When I received the unit, it would pass zero'ing Open, but it would fail when you tried to Zero short with error E-07.
?
I went thru and executed the performance tests per the manual.
Paragraph 4-9 "Measurement Signal Frequency Accuracy Test" - Good
Paragraph 4-11 "Measurement Signal Level Accuracy Test" - Good
Skipped the rest since I hit a brick wall when I couldn't set it up for impedance measurements because I couldn't zero short.
I also performed 4-21 "Amplitude Accuracy Test", which it passed, after reading 8-113 "Isolation of the VRD Section"?
?
After many hours spent in the service manual, I found something in section 8-111, "Isolation of the Range control circuit"
?
In particular, the section that talks about a failure in the source resistor circuit.
With a short across the unknown terminals, the test currents were way out of range vs what the manual specified.
?
This led me to the flow diagram on page 8-86. ?In the 5th column there is a section where you manually set the ZY range and you should see the amplitude of the signal drop from the HCUR terminal. ?It did not drop when in the 10k or 100k range. The actions suggested checking A1K2, K3, Q19, Q26, U5 and U6 (under the HCUR AMP cover on the A1 board). ?I tested the relays and could see that the circuit was working correctly when manipulating the range setting on the front panel.
?
During that process, I noticed relay K1 is always on. ?K1 is only supposed to be on in when the instrument is in amplitude-phase measurement mode. (according to the text on page 8-87)
?
I removed K1 and the relay itself tests OK.
?
With the relay left out, I installed a jumper on the PCB between relay pins 1 and 4, manually bringing the source resistors into play, so the unit should function correctly in impedance measurement mode now.
?
It fixed the problem. I can now zero open, zero short, and make impedance, capacitance, etc measurements with no issues (and they are roughly the same readings im getting on my 4274A)
?
Now I need to figure out why K1 is always stuck on. ?It is a normally open relay. ?This is where I need some help.
?
The manual says to check the relay K1, its driver transistor, a 2n3904 (Q8) and the optoisolator U2. ?The relay test OK, the transistor tests ok on the curve tracer, I tried another one just in case. ?I have no experience with optoisolators and I'm not really sure what I'm looking for.
?
I installed an LED in place of the relay coil, ?and it does appear the commands from the front panel are making It thru the optoisolator and firing the driver transistor. ?The intensity of the LED changes but it never shuts off completely.?
?
Here are the voltages from the bottom half of U2 (pins 3,4,5,6), which is the section used to drive Q8.
Impedance Mode (K1 should be off) ||| Amplitude-Phase Mode (K1 should be on)
Pin 3 3.414 ||| 4.85
Pin 4 4.866 ||| 4.86
Pin 5 -15.81 ||| -16.06
Pin 6 -4.89 ||| 0.65
?
It appears that the relay coil pins are still getting 9-10v even when it's supposed to be off.
?
What else should I check with regards to this optoisolator? ?It's HP P/N 01990-0577. ?I spent a while doing a parametric search on digikey and can't find any modern comparable transistor output parts. ?Mostly because the anode/cathode is in a different orientation, but I notice there are a few resistors in the HP opto that I don't see in the modern ones. ?Not sure what other specs to look for other than 50mA (which is what the description of the part says in the HP manual). I'm not sure what type of signal is supposed to be going into the opto on pin 3, is it possible that the front panel isn't supplying enough signal to fire it fully?
?
Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Phil
?
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Re: Boonton 92BD Troubleshooting
@Michael T -
I mentioned that the recorder port is presenting 13.5v always, so there may be something there to look at.? ?If i remove either the chopper or shaping amp boards, it returns to zero.??
This is why it leads me to believe the digital part is ok, its just passing around signals from further up in the chain, i assume.? ? Will dig into it further, still digesting the schematic and manual, tracing through what i can when i have time.? ?
I do think the chopper is passing through to the board and into the circuit but i'm not seeing anything coming OUT of it into the shaping amp, might be the opamp on the output side, tbd.? ?
Either way, I'll cross post to the other group if I get a chance today.??
@Curt, mines the opposite and pined on the high stop.? ?One thing that's driving me mad, the only subsection of the block diagram besides the actual board labels is the lone word "chopper".? I'd love to understand more specifically WHERE the attenuator, 2nd amplifier, sync detector actually reside.? ??
On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 3:21?PM Curt Helstrom via <cahelstrom= [email protected]> wrote: I have repaired two 92B's with this technique.? It appears that as the choppers age, their timing effects the meter's operation (both of mine
showed meter pined to the negative stop).? What I did was to swap the cathodes of CR207 and CR213, that is I connected CR207 cathode to
the original connection point of the CR213 cathode and vis versa, connected the cathode of CR213 to the original connection point of CR207.
?
This changes the timing of when the synchronous detector measures the signals coming from the chopper through the amplifiers, and compensates
for the delays caused by an aging chopper.
?
As mentioned, I've repaired two 92B's with this technique, both meeting all specifications after this modification.
?
Hope this helps in your efforts to repair your meter.
|
Re: Boonton 92BD Troubleshooting
I have repaired two 92B's with this technique.? It appears that as the choppers age, their timing effects the meter's operation (both of mine
showed meter pined to the negative stop).? What I did was to swap the cathodes of CR207 and CR213, that is I connected CR207 cathode to
the original connection point of the CR213 cathode and vis versa, connected the cathode of CR213 to the original connection point of CR207.
?
This changes the timing of when the synchronous detector measures the signals coming from the chopper through the amplifiers, and compensates
for the delays caused by an aging chopper.
?
As mentioned, I've repaired two 92B's with this technique, both meeting all specifications after this modification.
?
Hope this helps in your efforts to repair your meter.
|
E4407B ESA spectrum analyzer starting up as wrong type
Hi all I got the E4407B to boot and it is a E4407B with the needed hardware. But it boots as a 3GHz model. So where is it stored what type it is supposed to be. It does not sweep even as the 3GHz version.?
Anyone know how get it back to E4407B. the Start screen says it is an E4407B but the highest frequency possible 3GHz
best regards Peter OZ1LPR
|
Re: Anyone able to do GC or GC-MS on Hp ThinkJet Black ink ( for the Hp ThinkJet 2225 printer; Hp 9226a Or Hp 51604a ink cartridges ) ?
Its not a project I would take on personally but the compounds are relatively safe.? 2-pyrrolidone can have some health effects.? Most cyclic amides do.? And apparently it makes up 30% of the ink.??
?
It is fun to discuss the analytical chemistry aspect of it though.? And I don't mind helping someone like Rick do research.? We've already discussed our backgrounds in the field.? He understands the safety involved.
?
-Frank
?
?
|
Re: 8665B noisy signal & Cal Errors
Hi All, quick update. Thanks to the friendly guidance of Adam MacDonald, I went ahead and checked the power supply rails for noise. I did find noise on the 15v and 38v rails (15v rail shown below). Not only did I find noise, but it was not at a stable frequency, it varied +/- 10 or 15 kHz, similar to what I was seeing on the spectrum analyzer. So I feel pretty comfortable that the source of the noise has been isolated. There area also some issues with low voltages on the 38V line I need to look at.?
?
Next steps will be to pull the PS, which seems to be quite a task in itself. But it's great to have progress!
?
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Re: Boonton 92BD Troubleshooting
It will help to remind any Boonton rrelated posts that it exists. It is better to post there, rather in a very active goup where many won't notice an off topic post.
As the owner of the Boonton list, I concur that the list
is more about the Boonton name than about which of the many
companies made the equipment.
The list was left in a frozen state when my partner in its
creation, John Forster died.? I finally got his estate lawyers
to release its control back to me, so it is operational.
I fear that it spent too much time frozen to ever recover, but
it is worth a try.
-Chuck Harris
On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 15:57:43 -0700 "Richard Knoppow"
<dickburk@...> wrote:
>? ? ?FWIW, I was one of those who promoted the Boonton list. There
> were two Boonton companies: Boonton Radio, who made the Q-Meter,
> RX-Meter and a series of signal generators,? and Boonton Electronics
> who made RF millivoltmeters and other intruments. There may even have
> been another Boonton company.
>? ? ?Hewlett-Packard bought Boonton Radio Co, and continued to make
> Q-Meters and other Boonton instruments. I don't know what happened to
> Boonton Electronics. Originally, the Boonton list was aimed at those
> who had the instruments made by Hewlett-Packard but because of the
> confusion of the names and difficulty of finding authentic
> information on some of the devices, the list became a sort of general
> catch all for anything with boonton in the name.
>? ? ? From what I see here the Boonton List is almost moribund, so I
> think we should not object to questions being posted here although
> they probably should also go to the Boonton list. Both companies made
> some unique instruments and had reputations for high quality.
>? ? ?There are many Boonton Radio handbooks and other literature at
> the -hp- archive site but perhaps not for Boonton Electronics.
> However, its worth a look.
>? ? ? Boonton N.J. was a sort of center of electronics in the 1940s
> and on including the famous Aircraft Radio Co (ARC). The smaller
> companies, like Boonton Electronics, seem almost forgotten now. Sad.
>
> On 10/4/2024 2:47 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
> > There is a Boonton group.
> >
> > DaveD
> > KC0WJN
> >? ?
>
>
|
Re: Boonton 92BD Troubleshooting
Besides having owned several Boonton instruments, the name "Boonton" has special meaning to me because that is where I was born.
DaveD
KC0WJN
Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 5, 2024, at 07:11, Chuck Harris via groups.io <cfharris@...> wrote:
?As the owner of the Boonton list, I concur that the list
is more about the Boonton name than about which of the many
companies made the equipment.
The list was left in a frozen state when my partner in its
creation, John Forster died. I finally got his estate lawyers
to release its control back to me, so it is operational.
I fear that it spent too much time frozen to ever recover, but
it is worth a try.
-Chuck Harris
On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 15:57:43 -0700 "Richard Knoppow"
<dickburk@...> wrote:
FWIW, I was one of those who promoted the Boonton list. There
were two Boonton companies: Boonton Radio, who made the Q-Meter,
RX-Meter and a series of signal generators, and Boonton Electronics
who made RF millivoltmeters and other intruments. There may even have
been another Boonton company.
Hewlett-Packard bought Boonton Radio Co, and continued to make
Q-Meters and other Boonton instruments. I don't know what happened to
Boonton Electronics. Originally, the Boonton list was aimed at those
who had the instruments made by Hewlett-Packard but because of the
confusion of the names and difficulty of finding authentic
information on some of the devices, the list became a sort of general
catch all for anything with boonton in the name.
From what I see here the Boonton List is almost moribund, so I
think we should not object to questions being posted here although
they probably should also go to the Boonton list. Both companies made
some unique instruments and had reputations for high quality.
There are many Boonton Radio handbooks and other literature at
the -hp- archive site but perhaps not for Boonton Electronics.
However, its worth a look.
Boonton N.J. was a sort of center of electronics in the 1940s
and on including the famous Aircraft Radio Co (ARC). The smaller
companies, like Boonton Electronics, seem almost forgotten now. Sad.
On 10/4/2024 2:47 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
There is a Boonton group.
DaveD
KC0WJN
|
Re: Boonton 92BD Troubleshooting
As the owner of the Boonton list, I concur that the list is more about the Boonton name than about which of the many companies made the equipment. The list was left in a frozen state when my partner in its creation, John Forster died. I finally got his estate lawyers to release its control back to me, so it is operational. I fear that it spent too much time frozen to ever recover, but it is worth a try. -Chuck Harris On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 15:57:43 -0700 "Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@...> wrote: FWIW, I was one of those who promoted the Boonton list. There
were two Boonton companies: Boonton Radio, who made the Q-Meter,
RX-Meter and a series of signal generators, and Boonton Electronics
who made RF millivoltmeters and other intruments. There may even have
been another Boonton company.
Hewlett-Packard bought Boonton Radio Co, and continued to make
Q-Meters and other Boonton instruments. I don't know what happened to
Boonton Electronics. Originally, the Boonton list was aimed at those
who had the instruments made by Hewlett-Packard but because of the
confusion of the names and difficulty of finding authentic
information on some of the devices, the list became a sort of general
catch all for anything with boonton in the name.
From what I see here the Boonton List is almost moribund, so I
think we should not object to questions being posted here although
they probably should also go to the Boonton list. Both companies made
some unique instruments and had reputations for high quality.
There are many Boonton Radio handbooks and other literature at
the -hp- archive site but perhaps not for Boonton Electronics.
However, its worth a look.
Boonton N.J. was a sort of center of electronics in the 1940s
and on including the famous Aircraft Radio Co (ARC). The smaller
companies, like Boonton Electronics, seem almost forgotten now. Sad.
On 10/4/2024 2:47 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
There is a Boonton group.
DaveD
KC0WJN
|
Re: Anyone able to do GC or GC-MS on Hp ThinkJet Black ink ( for the Hp ThinkJet 2225 printer; Hp 9226a Or Hp 51604a ink cartridges ) ?
A lifetime ago, I took a course called: "Micro, Semimicro Qualitative Analysis." We routinely took 10ml of some unknown, and applying various reagents, isolated what was in it. Finding out which acid salt should be relatively easy for someone with a modestly equipped chemistry lab, and a little knowledge. From my experience with e-scrapping, I learned a few things about HP inkjet printers. The first is, given time, they will leak out a cartridge's worth of ink all over the surface below the printer. I have a permanent reminder of that on one of my granite counter tops. You might want to re-think your desire to monkey around with refilling cartridges for printers that already do a poor job of containing their allotment of ink. The second is, the leaked ink seems to be corrosive. Abused printers (kept in all sorts of orientations, thrown into scrap pile...) will invariably leak ink... everywhere. The ink tends to leave copper covered with green corrosion. The third is, new cartridges are easily found. The prices were never reasonable, and that fact remains. -Chuck Harris On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 17:16:46 -0700 "Frank Mashockie" <fmashockie@...> wrote: It could be that Food Black 2 is used but what they have made
confidential is the salt that they use to neutralize the dye.? In
this case Food black 2 has 4 sulfonic acid groups that need to be
neutralized to stabilize it.? Sometimes this is done with Sodium.? It
could be they are using something else that they don't wish to
disclose.? This does have implications for the GC-MS analysis and
sample preparation.? It can make analysis more difficult requiring
some kind of acidic work up to remove the salt.
|
Re: Boonton 92BD Troubleshooting
Not the BD version, but these meters have an analog output for data logging or SATE systems. Rather than assume the digital section is OK, feed a test signal into the probe and see if the analog level changes. Always split a problem in half, rather than randomly change parts.
Use a well calibrated 50 ohm signal generator..
That 'digital' board also cottains the A/D converter.
The chopper circuit hasa high failure rate. It can be upgraded to a modern, digital version lke the 9200 series. It is in the 9200 manuals.
The 42 series power meters use the same circitry, but are calibrated for a fixed 50 ohm input.
The same goes for the 4200/9200 series.
|
Re: Boonton 92BD Troubleshooting
Boonton Electronics (not related to HP) that made this meter are still going, as part of the Wireless Telecom Group, Inc.
There were at least 6 companies from the Boonton in New Jersey, Boonton Radio Corp (became part of HP), Boonton Electronics, Measurements Corp, Ferris, Ballantine, RFL, even the HP archive website has a page about some and manuals; http://hparchive.com/boonton-nj
?
David
?
On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 10:57 PM, Richard Knoppow wrote:
FWIW, I was one of those who promoted the Boonton list. There were
two Boonton companies: Boonton Radio, who made the Q-Meter, RX-Meter and
a series of signal generators, and Boonton Electronics who made RF
millivoltmeters and other intruments. There may even have been another
Boonton company.
Hewlett-Packard bought Boonton Radio Co, and continued to make
Q-Meters and other Boonton instruments. I don't know what happened to
Boonton Electronics. Originally, the Boonton list was aimed at those who
had the instruments made by Hewlett-Packard but because of the confusion
of the names and difficulty of finding authentic information on some of
the devices, the list became a sort of general catch all for anything
with boonton in the name.
From what I see here the Boonton List is almost moribund, so I
think we should not object to questions being posted here although they
probably should also go to the Boonton list. Both companies made some
unique instruments and had reputations for high quality.
There are many Boonton Radio handbooks and other literature at the
-hp- archive site but perhaps not for Boonton Electronics. However, its
worth a look.
Boonton N.J. was a sort of center of electronics in the 1940s and
on including the famous Aircraft Radio Co (ARC). The smaller companies,
like Boonton Electronics, seem almost forgotten now. Sad.
On 10/4/2024 2:47 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
There is a Boonton group.
DaveD
KC0WJN
--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998
|
Re: Anyone able to do GC or GC-MS on Hp ThinkJet Black ink ( for the Hp ThinkJet 2225 printer; Hp 9226a Or Hp 51604a ink cartridges ) ?
Interesting... Wonder why they didn't put a CAS # by it then.? I guess because they labeled it non-hazardous? 1,6-hexadiol?seems more likely.? Pyrrolidines can be pretty nasty.
When they say acid salt #3 they?are referring to how the dye is neutralized.? So for example, it is very common that dyes like this are neutralized with tetrasodium.? It could be that or something else.
If you have a DOI # for that article, I might be able to find it for you.
-Frank
?
?
These have been studied & published... years ago, and the field is evolving.
This evening's bedtime reading on ink jet inks? via GC-MS, TLC, high performance liquid chromatography, LC-MS, etc.
.... at some point the recipe may appear -- Might not have to do much homework testing,? if already in the literature.
?
A few references state that Hp used:
?
N-(2-Hydroxyethyl)-2-pyrrolidone? (HP)
&
1,6-hexanediol (HP)
?
in their Hp? Ink Jet? inks...
?
The Acid Salt 3 is the question....? ?
Possible preservatives to prevent oxidation & bacterial growth, etc.
?
Can't seem to get my hands on a .pdf? of what seems to be a good reference, age appropriate:
?
Aginsky, V. N. (1996). Dating and Characterizing Writing, Stamp Pad and Jet Printer Inks by Gas Chromatography / Mass ?Spectrometry.? International ?Journal of Forensic Document Examiners, Vol. 2, No. 2, pp.103-115
?
?
?
?
|
Re: Anyone able to do GC or GC-MS on Hp ThinkJet Black ink ( for the Hp ThinkJet 2225 printer; Hp 9226a Or Hp 51604a ink cartridges ) ?
?
?
These have been studied & published... years ago, and the field is evolving.
This evening's bedtime reading on ink jet inks? via GC-MS, TLC, high performance liquid chromatography, LC-MS, etc.
.... at some point the recipe may appear -- Might not have to do much homework testing,? if already in the literature.
?
A few references state that Hp used:
?
N-(2-Hydroxyethyl)-2-pyrrolidone? (HP)
&
1,6-hexanediol (HP)
?
in their Hp? Ink Jet? inks...
?
The Acid Salt 3 is the question....? ?
Possible preservatives to prevent oxidation & bacterial growth, etc.
?
Can't seem to get my hands on a .pdf? of what seems to be a good reference, age appropriate:
?
Aginsky, V. N. (1996). Dating and Characterizing Writing, Stamp Pad and Jet Printer Inks by Gas Chromatography / Mass ?Spectrometry.? International ?Journal of Forensic Document Examiners, Vol. 2, No. 2, pp.103-115
?
?
?
?
|
Re: Anyone able to do GC or GC-MS on Hp ThinkJet Black ink ( for the Hp ThinkJet 2225 printer; Hp 9226a Or Hp 51604a ink cartridges ) ?
Also, while the dye is Food Black 2, its salt form is not known.? HP isn't sharing that.? I'm not a printer ink maker, but different types of salts can have drastic implications on the characteristics of the organic they are complexed with.? I'm more familiar with this from a pharma standpoint - drugs with the same API can have very different efficacies based on their salt form.
On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 11:48?PM Frank Masciocchi < fmashockie@...> wrote: Gotcha.? Very curious what that 'alkyldiol' is listed on the most recent MSDS I shared.? It doesn't have a CAS # and it says proprietary.? Could be a nonionic surfactant like Tween.??
Keep us posted on this project! I'd be interested/curious to know how far you get with the tools you have at home!
-Frank??
?
The dye is easy, Food Black 2 ,
Other questions are the possible use of a Tween, or other Surfactant? or/& something else, possibly Glycerol ?
?
For 1st tests, a test ink does not have to be perfect, just hoping it will work reasonably well, and be paper fast.
Just don't want to gum up the only empty ThinkJet cartridge that I have, ... would quickly put an end to testing in my 2225 printer, lol.
?
Thus, more examples of MSDS sheets ,
?? from the Hp ThinkJet Cartridge ? boxes? ( an inserted slip of paper ), would help,
if anyone can post additional .pdf's of these.
|
Frank Mashockie
Michael A. Terrell
factory