I forgot to ask, what is your noise floor level at full span?



On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 10:27 AM, amirb wrote:

I assume there are no error messages appearing anymore, right? Any error message about Log amp or step gain amplifiers?
if there is no error and you are sure the attenuator and the input AC/DC coupling are ok (you can even check with oscilloscope by injecting a signal)
then the best and perhaps only way to isolate the problem is by injecting signal at various points and measuring power levels according to the service manual

I dont think this is due to low LO amplitude in any of the converters. otherwise you would get an error message and besides
90dB down is way too much for that. I suspect this is due to a fault in one of the 3 converters or in the Log amp (but not in any of the LO drives)

since you dont have a second spectrum analyzer, I suggest you inject a signal at say -20 or -21dB to the first mixer (make sure span is set to zero)
and then measure the 310.7MHz second IF with an oscilloscope (I hope you have a 400-500MHz scope?) or even a power meter.
if the amplitude is way off then the problem is either the first mixer or the second converter. By the way, you can check the mixer bias voltages coming from A14
In some versions even the first mixer has bias voltage.

Next you can inject a clean 310.7MHz at around -35 or -36dBm to the third IF input (you might have it on the front panel) (you must choose it first in the menus and also choose zero span)
and then you can measure the 10.7 Mhz final IF with an oscilloscope it must be around -15 to -17dBm I think.



On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 09:44 AM, Dave Ireland wrote:

I am repairing a HP8560E and until now have been doing well.

The unit on delivery had the classic distorted display and no apparent response to any input though it did sweep it was very slow. 12 Alarms were reported.

Choose the "600 MHz Reference Oscillator Unlocked" first and replacing failed 2N2222A regulator on the 100MHz oscillator which bought the display back and all the alarms disappeared. Best 40c I've ever spent.

Was it completely fixed? No unfortunately not, the input reads about 90dB low. Every thing else looks fine, the resolution band width, span and frequency accuracy all look good. Checked the attenuator and the filter and even went straight into the RF port on the first low band mixer but still 90dB down.

I am at an impass now until I can borrow a decent SA as I do not have anything to measure 3-6GHz.

I did the LO feed through test in the service manual ie centre freq 0Hz, Span 1MHz, input attenuator 0dB and it says the feed through should be between -6 and -30dBm. It says if it is inside this range the RF path following the Low band mixer is operating properly.

Mine is -26dBm, so in the range.

My question is does that test mean that the the Yig, the LO distribution amp, the first mixer LO and IF ports and all the following mixers are operating correctly albeit not 90dB out? If so, the only thing I can think is a faulty RF port on the mixer (sounds unlikely). Also, I suppose if the LO drive was low, maybe 10 dB or so, there would still be feed through but may be not enough level to bias the mixer to mix.

Any though while I wait for a better spec an?

Dave

?

Both types of rack mount brackets are available. It appears someone took the time to tie wrap the handles to the brackets to keep them together so I’d venture a guess you have the “use with handles” type. Look closely at the brackets and if they have notches at the top and bottom of the outward-facing side, on the inside towards the instrument, they are definitely for use with handles installed. They’ll mesh together nicely if they are a proper mating set.

Steve

WB0DBS

On Apr 11, 2019, at 2:48 PM, Steve <steve65@...> wrote:

Are the mounting brackets made to be or intended to be used with front equipment handles? Or are the front equipment handles used alone?

Reason I ask . . . somewhere along the line I acquired a box with a handful of mounting brackets and front equipment handles. They are paired with plastic tiewraps . . . a mounting bracket is tiewrapped to a front equipment handle, as if they go together. Do they?

Thanks.

Steve, K8JQ

On 4/10/2019 6:13 PM, Jeremy Nichols wrote:

Is eBay item number:173844545405 the correct rack mounting bracket for my HP-3456A DVM? All these "with handles" and "without handles" descriptions are confusing (if the sellers are even correct).

Jeremy

Thanks for those great advice. I have packed it in for the night but will try them out tomorrow.

?

I have a specan in my FM testset that goes to a gig so should be able to check the IFs.

?

It is one of the later of this model so you are right the first mixer does have bias as well and these look close but while is supposed to be 5v and is 5 the other is supposed to be 4.5v and it is 5 as well. Will have a closer look at these as well.

?

Thanks

?

Dave

?

?

?

Sent from my Samsung GALAXY S5

-------- Original message --------
From: amirb <amir.borji@...>
Date: 11/04/2019 22:29 (GMT+08:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP8560E Low Level

I forgot to ask, what is your noise floor level at full span?



On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 10:27 AM, amirb wrote:

I assume there are no error messages appearing anymore, right? Any error message about Log amp or step gain amplifiers?
if there is no error and you are sure the attenuator and the input AC/DC coupling are ok (you can even check with oscilloscope by injecting a signal)
then the best and perhaps only way to isolate the problem is by injecting signal at various points and measuring power levels according to the service manual

I dont think this is due to low LO amplitude in any of the converters. otherwise you would get an error message and besides
90dB down is way too much for that. I suspect this is due to a fault in one of the 3 converters or in the Log amp (but not in any of the LO drives)

since you dont have a second spectrum analyzer, I suggest you inject a signal at say -20 or -21dB to the first mixer (make sure span is set to zero)
and then measure the 310.7MHz second IF with an oscilloscope (I hope you have a 400-500MHz scope?) or even a power meter.
if the amplitude is way off then the problem is either the first mixer or the second converter. By the way, you can check the mixer bias voltages coming from A14
In some versions even the first mixer has bias voltage.

Next you can inject a clean 310.7MHz at around -35 or -36dBm to the third IF input (you might have it on the front panel) (you must choose it first in the menus and also choose zero span)
and then you can measure the 10.7 Mhz final IF with an oscilloscope it must be around -15 to -17dBm I think.



On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 09:44 AM, Dave Ireland wrote:

I am repairing a HP8560E and until now have been doing well.

The unit on delivery had the classic distorted display and no apparent response to any input though it did sweep it was very slow. 12 Alarms were reported.

Choose the "600 MHz Reference Oscillator Unlocked" first and replacing failed 2N2222A regulator on the 100MHz oscillator which bought the display back and all the alarms disappeared. Best 40c I've ever spent.

Was it completely fixed? No unfortunately not, the input reads about 90dB low. Every thing else looks fine, the resolution band width, span and frequency accuracy all look good. Checked the attenuator and the filter and even went straight into the RF port on the first low band mixer but still 90dB down.

I am at an impass now until I can borrow a decent SA as I do not have anything to measure 3-6GHz.

I did the LO feed through test in the service manual ie centre freq 0Hz, Span 1MHz, input attenuator 0dB and it says the feed through should be between -6 and -30dBm. It says if it is inside this range the RF path following the Low band mixer is operating properly.

Mine is -26dBm, so in the range.

My question is does that test mean that the the Yig, the LO distribution amp, the first mixer LO and IF ports and all the following mixers are operating correctly albeit not 90dB out? If so, the only thing I can think is a faulty RF port on the mixer (sounds unlikely). Also, I suppose if the LO drive was low, maybe 10 dB or so, there would still be feed through but may be not enough level to bias the mixer to mix.

Any though while I wait for a better spec an?

Dave

?

Are the mounting brackets made to be or intended to be used with front equipment handles? Or are the front equipment handles used alone?

Reason I ask . . . somewhere along the line I acquired a box with a handful of mounting brackets and front equipment handles. They are paired with plastic tiewraps . . . a mounting bracket is tiewrapped to a front equipment handle, as if they go together. Do they?

Thanks.

Steve, K8JQ

On 4/10/2019 6:13 PM, Jeremy Nichols wrote:

Is eBay item number:173844545405 the correct rack mounting bracket for my HP-3456A DVM? All these "with handles" and "without handles" descriptions are confusing (if the sellers are even correct).

Jeremy

Is eBay item number:173844545405 the correct rack mounting bracket for my HP-3456A DVM? All these "with handles" and "without handles" descriptions are confusing (if the sellers are even correct).

Jeremy

Thanks for those great advice. I have packed it in for the night but will try them out tomorrow.

?

I have a specan in my FM testset that goes to a gig so should be able to check the IFs.

?

It is one of the later of this model so you are right the first mixer does have bias as well and these look close but while is supposed to be 5v and is 5 the other is supposed to be 4.5v and it is 5 as well. Will have a closer look at these as well.

?

Thanks

?

Dave

?

?

?

Sent from my Samsung GALAXY S5

-------- Original message --------
From: amirb <amir.borji@...>
Date: 11/04/2019 22:29 (GMT+08:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP8560E Low Level

I forgot to ask, what is your noise floor level at full span?



On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 10:27 AM, amirb wrote:

I assume there are no error messages appearing anymore, right? Any error message about Log amp or step gain amplifiers?
if there is no error and you are sure the attenuator and the input AC/DC coupling are ok (you can even check with oscilloscope by injecting a signal)
then the best and perhaps only way to isolate the problem is by injecting signal at various points and measuring power levels according to the service manual

I dont think this is due to low LO amplitude in any of the converters. otherwise you would get an error message and besides
90dB down is way too much for that. I suspect this is due to a fault in one of the 3 converters or in the Log amp (but not in any of the LO drives)

since you dont have a second spectrum analyzer, I suggest you inject a signal at say -20 or -21dB to the first mixer (make sure span is set to zero)
and then measure the 310.7MHz second IF with an oscilloscope (I hope you have a 400-500MHz scope?) or even a power meter.
if the amplitude is way off then the problem is either the first mixer or the second converter. By the way, you can check the mixer bias voltages coming from A14
In some versions even the first mixer has bias voltage.

Next you can inject a clean 310.7MHz at around -35 or -36dBm to the third IF input (you might have it on the front panel) (you must choose it first in the menus and also choose zero span)
and then you can measure the 10.7 Mhz final IF with an oscilloscope it must be around -15 to -17dBm I think.



On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 09:44 AM, Dave Ireland wrote:

I am repairing a HP8560E and until now have been doing well.

The unit on delivery had the classic distorted display and no apparent response to any input though it did sweep it was very slow. 12 Alarms were reported.

Choose the "600 MHz Reference Oscillator Unlocked" first and replacing failed 2N2222A regulator on the 100MHz oscillator which bought the display back and all the alarms disappeared. Best 40c I've ever spent.

Was it completely fixed? No unfortunately not, the input reads about 90dB low. Every thing else looks fine, the resolution band width, span and frequency accuracy all look good. Checked the attenuator and the filter and even went straight into the RF port on the first low band mixer but still 90dB down.

I am at an impass now until I can borrow a decent SA as I do not have anything to measure 3-6GHz.

I did the LO feed through test in the service manual ie centre freq 0Hz, Span 1MHz, input attenuator 0dB and it says the feed through should be between -6 and -30dBm. It says if it is inside this range the RF path following the Low band mixer is operating properly.

Mine is -26dBm, so in the range.

My question is does that test mean that the the Yig, the LO distribution amp, the first mixer LO and IF ports and all the following mixers are operating correctly albeit not 90dB out? If so, the only thing I can think is a faulty RF port on the mixer (sounds unlikely). Also, I suppose if the LO drive was low, maybe 10 dB or so, there would still be feed through but may be not enough level to bias the mixer to mix.

Any though while I wait for a better spec an?

Dave

?

I assume there are no error messages appearing anymore, right? Any error message about Log amp or step gain amplifiers?
if there is no error and you are sure the attenuator and the input AC/DC coupling are ok (you can even check with oscilloscope by injecting a signal)
then the best and perhaps only way to isolate the problem is by injecting signal at various points and measuring power levels according to the service manual

I dont think this is due to low LO amplitude in any of the converters. otherwise you would get an error message and besides
90dB down is way too much for that. I suspect this is due to a fault in one of the 3 converters or in the Log amp (but not in any of the LO drives)

since you dont have a second spectrum analyzer, I suggest you inject a signal at say -20 or -21dB to the first mixer (make sure span is set to zero)
and then measure the 310.7MHz second IF with an oscilloscope (I hope you have a 400-500MHz scope?) or even a power meter.
if the amplitude is way off then the problem is either the first mixer or the second converter. By the way, you can check the mixer bias voltages coming from A14
In some versions even the first mixer has bias voltage.

Next you can inject a clean 310.7MHz at around -35 or -36dBm to the third IF input (you might have it on the front panel) (you must choose it first in the menus and also choose zero span)
and then you can measure the 10.7 Mhz final IF with an oscilloscope it must be around -15 to -17dBm I think.



On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 09:44 AM, Dave Ireland wrote:

I am repairing a HP8560E and until now have been doing well.

The unit on delivery had the classic distorted display and no apparent response to any input though it did sweep it was very slow. 12 Alarms were reported.

Choose the "600 MHz Reference Oscillator Unlocked" first and replacing failed 2N2222A regulator on the 100MHz oscillator which bought the display back and all the alarms disappeared. Best 40c I've ever spent.

Was it completely fixed? No unfortunately not, the input reads about 90dB low. Every thing else looks fine, the resolution band width, span and frequency accuracy all look good. Checked the attenuator and the filter and even went straight into the RF port on the first low band mixer but still 90dB down.

I am at an impass now until I can borrow a decent SA as I do not have anything to measure 3-6GHz.

I did the LO feed through test in the service manual ie centre freq 0Hz, Span 1MHz, input attenuator 0dB and it says the feed through should be between -6 and -30dBm. It says if it is inside this range the RF path following the Low band mixer is operating properly.

Mine is -26dBm, so in the range.

My question is does that test mean that the the Yig, the LO distribution amp, the first mixer LO and IF ports and all the following mixers are operating correctly albeit not 90dB out? If so, the only thing I can think is a faulty RF port on the mixer (sounds unlikely). Also, I suppose if the LO drive was low, maybe 10 dB or so, there would still be feed through but may be not enough level to bias the mixer to mix.

Any though while I wait for a better spec an?

Dave

?

I assume there are no error messages appearing anymore, right? Any error message about Log amp or step gain amplifiers?
if there is no error and you are sure the attenuator and the input AC/DC coupling are ok (you can even check with oscilloscope by injecting a signal)
then the best and perhaps only way to isolate the problem is by injecting signal at various points and measuring power levels according to the service manual

I dont think this is due to low LO amplitude in any of the converters. otherwise you would get an error message and besides
90dB down is way too much for that. I suspect this is due to a fault in one of the 3 converters or in the Log amp (but not in any of the LO drives)

since you dont have a second spectrum analyzer, I suggest you inject a signal at say -20 or -21dB to the first mixer (make sure span is set to zero)
and then measure the 310.7MHz second IF with an oscilloscope (I hope you have a 400-500MHz scope?) or even a power meter.
if the amplitude is way off then the problem is either the first mixer or the second converter. By the way, you can check the mixer bias voltages coming from A14
In some versions even the first mixer has bias voltage.

Next you can inject a clean 310.7MHz at around -35 or -36dBm to the third IF input (you might have it on the front panel) (you must choose it first in the menus and also choose zero span)
and then you can measure the 10.7 Mhz final IF with an oscilloscope it must be around -15 to -17dBm I think.



On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 09:44 AM, Dave Ireland wrote:

I am repairing a HP8560E and until now have been doing well.

The unit on delivery had the classic distorted display and no apparent response to any input though it did sweep it was very slow. 12 Alarms were reported.

Choose the "600 MHz Reference Oscillator Unlocked" first and replacing failed 2N2222A regulator on the 100MHz oscillator which bought the display back and all the alarms disappeared. Best 40c I've ever spent.

Was it completely fixed? No unfortunately not, the input reads about 90dB low. Every thing else looks fine, the resolution band width, span and frequency accuracy all look good. Checked the attenuator and the filter and even went straight into the RF port on the first low band mixer but still 90dB down.

I am at an impass now until I can borrow a decent SA as I do not have anything to measure 3-6GHz.

I did the LO feed through test in the service manual ie centre freq 0Hz, Span 1MHz, input attenuator 0dB and it says the feed through should be between -6 and -30dBm. It says if it is inside this range the RF path following the Low band mixer is operating properly.

Mine is -26dBm, so in the range.

My question is does that test mean that the the Yig, the LO distribution amp, the first mixer LO and IF ports and all the following mixers are operating correctly albeit not 90dB out? If so, the only thing I can think is a faulty RF port on the mixer (sounds unlikely). Also, I suppose if the LO drive was low, maybe 10 dB or so, there would still be feed through but may be not enough level to bias the mixer to mix.

Any though while I wait for a better spec an?

Dave

?

I am repairing a HP8560E and until now have been doing well.

The unit on delivery had the classic distorted display and no apparent response to any input though it did sweep it was very slow. 12 Alarms were reported.

Choose the "600 MHz Reference Oscillator Unlocked" first and replacing failed 2N2222A regulator on the 100MHz oscillator which bought the display back and all the alarms disappeared. Best 40c I've ever spent.

Was it completely fixed? No unfortunately not, the input reads about 90dB low. Every thing else looks fine, the resolution band width, span and frequency accuracy all look good. Checked the attenuator and the filter and even went straight into the RF port on the first low band mixer but still 90dB down.

I am at an impass now until I can borrow a decent SA as I do not have anything to measure 3-6GHz.

I did the LO feed through test in the service manual ie centre freq 0Hz, Span 1MHz, input attenuator 0dB and it says the feed through should be between -6 and -30dBm. It says if it is inside this range the RF path following the Low band mixer is operating properly.

Mine is -26dBm, so in the range.

My question is does that test mean that the the Yig, the LO distribution amp, the first mixer LO and IF ports and all the following mixers are operating correctly albeit not 90dB out? If so, the only thing I can think is a faulty RF port on the mixer (sounds unlikely). Also, I suppose if the LO drive was low, maybe 10 dB or so, there would still be feed through but may be not enough level to bias the mixer to mix.

Any though while I wait for a better spec an?

Dave

?

I have the poor quality scan from the Keysight site, but it doesn't include the processor board.

I have a lit up screen with no display.? Power supplies are good.

My unit is serial 2936J09603 which is way later than the range in the manual I have.? The processor board is a much newer design from the layout in the manual.

On power up I get all LEDs on the processor board light up, then they light sequentially, then stop in a pattern of 10000000.? This is the initialization of the LCD, and the troubleshooting guide says the A7 (processor) data acknowledge circuit is faulty.? A CLIP of the processor board sure would help.? I do hear a bunch or relays clicking so the processor is at least talking to other parts of the instrument.

Anyone know where I can find or purchase a CLIP which includes this info?

Peter

Those look nice, Dave! For most of my units I ended up mounting aluminum angle in the racks and aluminum bar stock on the sides of the units, with Teflon tape so everything slides easily. Since the Teflon effectively isolates the chassis’s from the rack I’m in the process of adding individual ground straps for each unit rather than rely on the power cord grounds.

Steve

WB0DBS

On Apr 10, 2019, at 6:12 PM, Dave Daniel <kc0wjn@...> wrote:

I’ve ended up using these “AC Infinity Vented Cantilever 2U Universal Rack Shelf” items purchase through Amazon instead of HP or Tektronix OEM rack ears. The shelves are a lot easier to install, and they allow easier rack reconfiguration.

DaveD

Sent from a small flat thingy

On Apr 10, 2019, at 18:54, Steve - Home <steve-krull@...> wrote:

Jeremy,

Yes, those ears will fit a 3456A. They are definitely for use without handles. The ones for use with handles remaining attached have a notch at top and bottom to clear the handles. You will have to remove the handles to use the ones on offer. Note that the screws to mount the ears to the unit don’t appear to be included. The flathead screws that mount the handles are not long enough to use to mount the ears.

You’ll also need either a shelf for the unit to sit on or the side mounted slides. The rack mount ears and front frame of the DVM are not designed to support the weight of the unit.?

Steve

WB0DBS

On Apr 10, 2019, at 5:13 PM, Jeremy Nichols <jn6wfo@...> wrote:

Is eBay item number:173844545405 the correct rack mounting bracket for my HP-3456A DVM? All these "with handles" and "without handles" descriptions are confusing (if the sellers are even correct).

Jeremy

I’ve ended up using these “AC Infinity Vented Cantilever 2U Universal Rack Shelf” items purchase through Amazon instead of HP or Tektronix OEM rack ears. The shelves are a lot easier to install, and they allow easier rack reconfiguration.

DaveD

Sent from a small flat thingy

On Apr 10, 2019, at 18:54, Steve - Home <steve-krull@...> wrote:

Jeremy,

Yes, those ears will fit a 3456A. They are definitely for use without handles. The ones for use with handles remaining attached have a notch at top and bottom to clear the handles. You will have to remove the handles to use the ones on offer. Note that the screws to mount the ears to the unit don’t appear to be included. The flathead screws that mount the handles are not long enough to use to mount the ears.

You’ll also need either a shelf for the unit to sit on or the side mounted slides. The rack mount ears and front frame of the DVM are not designed to support the weight of the unit.?

Steve

WB0DBS

On Apr 10, 2019, at 5:13 PM, Jeremy Nichols <jn6wfo@...> wrote:

Is eBay item number:173844545405 the correct rack mounting bracket for my HP-3456A DVM? All these "with handles" and "without handles" descriptions are confusing (if the sellers are even correct).

Jeremy

Jeremy,

Yes, those ears will fit a 3456A. They are definitely for use without handles. The ones for use with handles remaining attached have a notch at top and bottom to clear the handles. You will have to remove the handles to use the ones on offer. Note that the screws to mount the ears to the unit don’t appear to be included. The flathead screws that mount the handles are not long enough to use to mount the ears.

You’ll also need either a shelf for the unit to sit on or the side mounted slides. The rack mount ears and front frame of the DVM are not designed to support the weight of the unit.?

Steve

WB0DBS

On Apr 10, 2019, at 5:13 PM, Jeremy Nichols <jn6wfo@...> wrote:

Is eBay item number:173844545405 the correct rack mounting bracket for my HP-3456A DVM? All these "with handles" and "without handles" descriptions are confusing (if the sellers are even correct).

Jeremy

Is eBay item number:173844545405 the correct rack mounting bracket for my HP-3456A DVM? All these "with handles" and "without handles" descriptions are confusing (if the sellers are even correct).

Jeremy