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Hello,
on the risk of a beating: at Tamoggemon, my wife introduced the "akkuschrauber" some years ago and we have had great experiences with one sourced cheaply from Tesco.

When inserting, all you need to do is limit the insertion force to the very lowest level. I did that on Lots and Lots of TMI - no issues so far!

Tam

---

With best regards
Tam HANNA (emailing on a BlackBerry PRIV)

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On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 11:13 PM, @0culus wrote:

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 10:12 PM, @0culus wrote:

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 07:50 PM, Noel VK3NH wrote:

Sean,

?

If you only drive the output at 10dBm then it should be very accurate in level.? Mine only had that issue above 2.8GHz.

?

Usually you get an ALC unlock error message if the requested level cannot be reached.

?

Regards Noel

(also answering amirb here)

OK I have it up stacked with my 8566A so I can play with things more easily now. It looks like the amplitude setting is pretty much bang on below 2.5 GHz. Above that to 3 GHz, if say it's set to 0 dBm, it's around 3-5 dBm low, with the lowest areas being around 2.5-2.55 GHz. No ALC unlock message showing, or any error message starting with 5.

Sean

OK, some of the losses are definitely from the BNC cable arrangement I was using. I switched to two short SMA cables connected together (the best I have till I can get my order to mini-circuits in), and gained about 3 dB over what I was seeing before. Granted, it doesn't account for all of the missing amplitude, but it was *definitely* contributing.

Sean

All right, after much testing, I finally triggered "Amplitude Error 1". The problem seems confined to the upper part of the 8664's bandwidth for sure.

Sean

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 10:12 PM, @0culus wrote:

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 07:50 PM, Noel VK3NH wrote:

Sean,

?

If you only drive the output at 10dBm then it should be very accurate in level.? Mine only had that issue above 2.8GHz.

?

Usually you get an ALC unlock error message if the requested level cannot be reached.

?

Regards Noel

(also answering amirb here)

OK I have it up stacked with my 8566A so I can play with things more easily now. It looks like the amplitude setting is pretty much bang on below 2.5 GHz. Above that to 3 GHz, if say it's set to 0 dBm, it's around 3-5 dBm low, with the lowest areas being around 2.5-2.55 GHz. No ALC unlock message showing, or any error message starting with 5.

Sean

OK, some of the losses are definitely from the BNC cable arrangement I was using. I switched to two short SMA cables connected together (the best I have till I can get my order to mini-circuits in), and gained about 3 dB over what I was seeing before. Granted, it doesn't account for all of the missing amplitude, but it was *definitely* contributing.

Sean

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 9:47 PM Keith Monahan via Groups.Io
<keith@...> wrote:

Hey,

Anyone have a street price estimate on what an HP 16900A should go for,
if it was kitted out like this:

2003-model variant with E5860A Gbit LAN Card installed

(1) 16950B 16MB version with full cables. Only (1) E5382A flying lead
set. I seem to remember Glen Slick's warning about the cost of those
leadsets for this module.

(5) 16910A 16MB version including the (3) 2-pod cables with 40-pin
connectors each, but no other probes or pods

No clue if it has WinXP(XP sticker is on outside) installed or Win7. Are
Win7 upgrade kits/images still available? I'm more concerned about the
data availability than the physical hardware.

How would one go about finding out which software licenses are
installed? Are upgrade licenses available? I swear that
HP/Agilent/Keysight granted us the ability, given the discontinued
nature of the products, some ability, for non-commercial usage?

What about SPI, I2C, etc support options?

I have a 16700A, and so I'm familiar with the older HPUX version.

Are there any practical concerns with these systems running XP or Win7
into the future? I know there's security and network-related concerns,
and future support from Microsoft --- but they should continue to boot
and otherwise, right?

Is there an HP repository of support documents, data images, and the
like available for these analyzers? It would be nice to download
everything en masse to keep for a rainy day.

Thanks for any pricing or other info.

Keith

Pricing estimate for a complete system in the configuration you listed
might be tough to guess. Is there such a system available you are
considering in a Best Offer type situation? I just saw a similarly
configured 16900A go on the Equipment auction site last week for
around $200. It appeared that there were maybe 5 16910A modules with
cables included, but the module model and speed and memory depth
details were not listed. That one happened to be located in MA state.
If you couldn't pick it up locally it probably would have cost at
least another $200 for a shipping service to pick it up, pack it, and
ship it to you.

As always, the value of the complete system might be a lot less than
if you were to price the components individually. For example the
E5382A flying lead set alone that you mentioned might go for a few
hundred on eBay.

As far as the OS is concerned, the 16900A, 16902A, and 16903A are
limited to Windows XP. Windows 7 was never a supported option. The
motherboards are limited to 512MB memory, and use a 1GHz P3 CPU if I
remember correctly.

Only the newer versions of the 16901A and the 16902B came with Windows
7 Embedded (the M890 motherboards with DVI video output). The earlier
M880 motherboard versions of the 16901A and the 16902B came with
Windows XP. They could be upgraded to Windows 7 Embedded. Keysight
sold you a hard drive replacement for that. You couldn't just download
an OS install image. The analyzers didn't ship with separate recovery
media, there is a recovery partition on the hard drive. If the hard
drive dies and you don't have clone of the drive (or at least a clone
of the recovery partition) you are out of luck, Keysight would only
want to sell you a replacement drive.


Keysight Technologies Windows 7 Upgrade Kits for 16800 Series, 16901A
and 16902B Logic Analyzers Data Sheet

Back to the 16900A, 16902A, and 16903A, you can reinstall the Windows
XP OS image from scratch from the OS image DVD and not have to deal
with any activation issues, then update to Windows XP SP3, then
install the 05.90.1110 version of the analyzer software. Then what I
would do is not use the analyzer application directly on the analyzer,
but install the same 05.90.1110 version of the analyzer software on a
newer and faster PC with a nice large monitor, and run the analyzer
application over the Gbit Ethernet connection. Probably best to run
them on an isolated network.

I have never seen any license information / hacks for the 16900
series, only the 16700 series.

If you have any 10391B style Inverse Assemblers that you currently use
on a 16700 series, as far as I know you cannot directly load them on a
16900 series. You can build a .R IA file into a DLL IA file that can
be loaded on a 16900 series using source files available in the
Analysis AddIn Wizard in the analyzer software. I have done that, it
takes a bit to get set up to do that.

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 07:50 PM, Noel VK3NH wrote:

Sean,

?

If you only drive the output at 10dBm then it should be very accurate in level.? Mine only had that issue above 2.8GHz.

?

Usually you get an ALC unlock error message if the requested level cannot be reached.

?

Regards Noel

(also answering amirb here)

OK I have it up stacked with my 8566A so I can play with things more easily now. It looks like the amplitude setting is pretty much bang on below 2.5 GHz. Above that to 3 GHz, if say it's set to 0 dBm, it's around 3-5 dBm low, with the lowest areas being around 2.5-2.55 GHz. No ALC unlock message showing, or any error message starting with 5.

Sean

Hey,

Anyone have a street price estimate on what an HP 16900A should go for, if it was kitted out like this:

2003-model variant with E5860A Gbit LAN Card installed

(1) 16950B 16MB version with full cables. Only (1) E5382A flying lead set. I seem to remember Glen Slick's warning about the cost of those leadsets for this module.

(5) 16910A 16MB version including the (3) 2-pod cables with 40-pin connectors each, but no other probes or pods

No clue if it has WinXP(XP sticker is on outside) installed or Win7. Are Win7 upgrade kits/images still available? I'm more concerned about the data availability than the physical hardware.

How would one go about finding out which software licenses are installed? Are upgrade licenses available? I swear that HP/Agilent/Keysight granted us the ability, given the discontinued nature of the products, some ability, for non-commercial usage?

What about SPI, I2C, etc support options?

I have a 16700A, and so I'm familiar with the older HPUX version.

Are there any practical concerns with these systems running XP or Win7 into the future? I know there's security and network-related concerns, and future support from Microsoft --- but they should continue to boot and otherwise, right?

Is there an HP repository of support documents, data images, and the like available for these analyzers? It would be nice to download everything en masse to keep for a rainy day.

Thanks for any pricing or other info.

Keith

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 07:47 PM, Noel VK3NH wrote:

WOW!! That corner got violated. I bet if mine didn't have the rack handles installed, it would have ended up exactly that way. Thanks for the warning about the screws.

Sean

?

Yep – good and wrecked.? I took off the front panel assembly and cut out the damaged cast corner section with a Dremel super tool.

?

I then wrecked a pro-X beta cassette tape case for some similar colour plastic to patch the missing section and held it in place with invisible tape.

?

The result is you don’t notice it now.

?

Regards Noel

That repair looks very very nice. Great job!

Sean

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 07:41 PM, Colby Burkett wrote:

Sean, I have a lot of parts for the 8664/8665 series sig gens. Let me know what you need and I'll see if I have it.

?

Colby

Awesome, thank you so much for the offer. I might take you up on that when I determine what I need.

After much struggling to get the case to slide off, I finally got into it. Dusty inside but nothing untoward. Quite clean and unmolested looking, really. Kudos to Patrick for the suggestion above to use a power tool for the 48 screws. Now I'm going to get it up on the bench so I can run it for a while.

I'm thinking I'll just leave these nasty vinyl covers off if I keep it. The Torx underneath actually look pretty nice on their own right.

Sean

i don't think 5dB can be simply attributed to cheap connectors and cables specially at these low frequencies (<3GHz)
My cheap chinese N connectors and RG142 cables (off ebay) don't show such big losses even up to 10-12GHz, but after that going up to 18GHz the loss is pretty significant

at what levels do you see 5dB off ? at high levels like 13-16dBm or at low levels like 0dBm?
do you get output unleveled error at some frequencies with high output levels??
Look for error message starting with 5 (due to module 5 which is the output module in A7).?



?

You have a really great signal generator, do what ever is required to repair it. I have two in the series. The only downside is that they are big and heavy.
Yours has option 10 which is ultra low leakage. That means that the case is special. I don't recall how the cover comes off, but you probably will have to research option 10 for instructions.
The front panel N connector may also be special; I am not sure because of option 10. At the worst you may have to mount the output connector on the real panel.?

Stuart
Los Angeles, California

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--

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 06:59 PM, amirb wrote:

make sure you check the output both below and above 375MHz and at different levels, too. to make sure the mechanical attenuator is OK
?
i think error 8 is not unusual if the OVEN is still cold and/or the OCXO is not stabilized yet
even if it is TCXO still the same. If the error goes away, that's not a big deal.

The output looks good across the entire range. There's a few places where it's low by about 5 dBm, but since it's mostly in the higher portions of the band, I'll attribute it to cable and connector losses. One thing I need to invest in soon is some better quality connectors and cables. Thanks for the error info, that makes sense.

Sean

On 3/18/19 8:08 PM, Patrick Manning wrote:

Dave, Option 10 is a 'reduced leakage' configuration that does away with
the normal top and bottom panels and side handles we all know and love
(certainly from the removal standpoint!) and replaces them with a solid
sleeve case with said gazillion screws to reduce RF leakage.


Pics of the 8644B I have are at:

I'm drooling here. :) I have an 8644A. The *only* thing I don't like
about it is that to see what amplitude it's configured for, I have to
turn the RF on. Other than that...I just adore the thing. Great
interface, great functionality, great output..

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

Very interesting, I didn't know about this! Thanks for the info.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

make sure you check the output both below and above 375MHz and at different levels, too. to make sure the mechanical attenuator is OK
?
i think error 8 is not unusual if the OVEN is still cold and/or the OCXO is not stabilized yet
even if it is TCXO still the same. If the error goes away, that's not a big deal.

i second John's remark

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 05:46 PM, Noel VK3NH wrote:

Sean,

?

Exactly the same thing happened to me with a HP8664A - no handles but with options in mint condition with a stated “power supply” fault.

It was packed badly and sustained bad damage to the front lower left hand side front panel and had the two bottom rear base rubber stops damaged or broken off.

The Impact to the front bent the front edge of the outer case meaning I had to use force to get the case off.? I cut away the bent casting to straighten the face plate.

?

My familiarity with the same issue to failing tantalum capacitors in an HP8665A helped me sort that the power supply fault out.

and also replaced the backup battery.? Unfortunately at power on, the unit only seemed to frequency lock over a very small range.

From then on, the unit was a nightmare with errors from turn on until I realised they had left the internal switch in service mode and got nowhere because the display was not active.

All good now.? The internal oscillator takes time to warm up from when AC power is applied.? Using an external reference makes it good to go much quicker.

?

Fixing ?yours?

?

Your generator sounds like is it pretty good if you can fix the cosmetics. ?The handles protected the front keypads and the RF connector/ assembly can be replaced.

?

They are well worth the repair efforts.

Keep track of where you take out the screws from.? They use variations of length and tapering and there are lots of them.

?

Regards Noel

WOW!! That corner got violated. I bet if mine didn't have the rack handles installed, it would have ended up exactly that way. Thanks for the warning about the screws.

Sean