Re: Synthesizer module in ESG series E4435B
I am making a trial run of few PCBs and I have a E4425B with "250MHz..350MHz unlock problem" to try it on. ? I will document the process as I do it. Cheers
On 20 Nov 2018, at 06:27, Dave Ireland wrote:
Great job Leo
Certainly interest here for a drop in PCB, gerber files, the
copies of the schematics you worked out the existing functions or
even the chip number for the Hittite prescalar:- basically any
info available on what you did.
I have been thinking of doing the same for sometime but could
never find any schematics of the area around the prescaler and not
until Milan posted the area of this chip the other day I have
never seen anything on it.
Thanks
Dave
17/11/2018 4:28 AM, Leo Bodnar wrote:
Thanks to everybody for great discussion.?
Despite initial diversion I have found that U313 Agilent 1GC1-4210
has struck yet again.? It had weird failure mode where it would
change its division ratio at the bottom 30% of its input range of
4GHz..8GHz to half the intended value.? This caused its output to
double in frequency and become filtered out by downstream LPFs.?
So I chucked U313 out and replaced it with good honest organic
grown 24GHz Hittite prescalers.? E4435B now works just how it was
supposed to.? If there is enough interest I can create a drop-in
PCB that will replace 1GC1-4210.
Cheers
Leo
<IMG_6824.jpg>
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Ji Roland,
I have one of these sig gens and like it a lot. I suspect your problem might be due to the not very intuitive keying sequence for setting modes frequencies and levels. I know it has puzzled me in the past and still does sometimes. I'm not at home to try it but do get the manual from the KO4BB site. I have just checked and it is there in directory 06 Misc Test Equip.
Hope this might solve your problem.
73
Ian G3XYV (in VK6 land at the moment)
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Re: Readings from 436A power meter using 82357B USB-GPIB?
Hello,
Is this working with the 82357, it would be a great starting point. Although I just don’t understand why interactive IO doesn’t work.?
Has anyone experienced differences between interactive IO and using the libraries - I guess interactive IO just is an interface to the libs?
My best bet right now is that REN should be controlled (pulled inactive) for reading data from the 436. I just don’t know how to test this with the 82357/VISA libraries.?
Regards, ?Staffan
On Monday, November 19, 2018, Daun Yeagley < daun@...> wrote:
Hi Staffan
The physical layer for IEE-488 itself is essentially unchanged from
the original.? 488.2 deals more with the messaging protocol.
This is where all the "universal" commands originated (all the *
commands like *IDN?, etc.).
If you saw my PM to you a bit ago, you saw an example of a
"non-488.2" communication using the Agilent IO libraries.? In other
words, those nifty commands are not available to the old "R2D2"
command structure instruments.? I guess I'll include that listing
here, for others to see as well.? This code sets up and gets
readings from an HP3478A voltmeter, which is pre-488.2 (R2D2
"language")
Daun
Daun E. Yeagley II, N8ASB
On 11/19/2018 4:01 PM, Staffan wrote:
Hello,
Many thanks. Notice that I replied to your direct mail. I don't
think the problem lies in the 436, but rather in how the USB
dongle 82357 performs communication. Don't know if the GPIB
standard was updated - 488.2 seems to be from 1992, whereas the
instrument predates 1980. It would be great to have a
configuration within VISA to support different standards for
different instruments - or is this perhaps not needed? Sounds
strange that there shouldn't be sufficient backwards compatibility
for a data bus!
Regards,
? Staffan
|
Re: Synthesizer module in ESG series E4435B
Great job Leo
Certainly interest here for a drop in PCB, gerber files, the
copies of the schematics you worked out the existing functions or
even the chip number for the Hittite prescalar:- basically any
info available on what you did.
I have been thinking of doing the same for sometime but could
never find any schematics of the area around the prescaler and not
until Milan posted the area of this chip the other day I have
never seen anything on it.
Thanks
Dave
17/11/2018 4:28 AM, Leo Bodnar wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Thanks to everybody for great discussion.?
Despite initial diversion I have found that U313 Agilent 1GC1-4210
has struck yet again.? It had weird failure mode where it would
change its division ratio at the bottom 30% of its input range of
4GHz..8GHz to half the intended value.? This caused its output to
double in frequency and become filtered out by downstream LPFs.?
So I chucked U313 out and replaced it with good honest organic
grown 24GHz Hittite prescalers.? E4435B now works just how it was
supposed to.? If there is enough interest I can create a drop-in
PCB that will replace 1GC1-4210.
Cheers
Leo
|
Re: A homemade diode power sensor for HP meters
some good reading here.
https://www.boonton.com/forms/principles-of-power-measurement-form
Easier to search for "boonton principles of power measurement"
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwisu_-Fm-LeAhWKmuAKHbrfAuAQFjABegQIAxAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boonton.com%2F~%2Fmedia%2FBoonton%2FReference%2520Guides%2FWTG_RefGuide_F1128_sm_web.ashx&usg=AOvVaw3CUwYZFunzbmZd4JDw4qhH
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Re: 50 ohm thermocouples was RE: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Issue with homemade diode power sensor for HP meters
I have such an animal here a GM 460B with that TFT hermocouple. It is an ancient beast. They got bought up by Marconi down the line.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US3384819
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50 ohm thermocouples was RE: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Issue with homemade diode power sensor for HP meters
General Microwave used to make thinfilm 50 ohm thermocouples for their power meter sensors. I don’t know if they are in business any more. Regards, John Burgar ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of RFI-EMI-GUY
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 1:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Issue with homemade diode power sensor for HP meters ? Is there any other company on the planet who produces 50 OHM thermocouples? It seems odd that such a thing is unobtainable.
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Re: A homemade diode power sensor for HP meters
On 11/19/18 4:42 PM, Andy ZL3AG via Groups.Io wrote: has info and diagram of sensor internals. The article "Very-Low-Level Microwave Power Measurements" shows why a diode sensor is good for low levels, not 0dBm, so it's good for measuring low power chip radio output with a receiving antenna a few meters away from the transmit antenna in preparation for FCC certification testing. I want one.
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Re: Issue with homemade diode power sensor for HP meters
No
You cannot have a 50 Ohm Thermocouple, a Thermocouple is effectively zero Ohms.
73 George G6HIG?
On Monday, November 19, 2018 9:42 PM, RFI-EMI-GUY <rhyolite@...> wrote:
Is there any other company on the planet who produces 50 OHM thermocouples? It seems odd that such a thing is unobtainable.
|
Re: A homemade diode power sensor for HP meters
has info and diagram of sensor internals.
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Re: E4406A MATLAB Application
Greetings.
For those who use the HP E4406A VSA, I wrote a python script that concatenates several 10MHz spans to make a wider spectrum plot. The tool uses TCP/IP to commuicate with the E4406A, so no GPIB is required. Can run on linux or Windows.
HP E4406A Span Concatenator:
Regards,
Bert, VE2ZAZ
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Re: E4406A MATLAB Application
Correct, SSM is just an alternate display for the analyzer, intended to passively record and replay trace data based on the current control settings.? Dick's program is an alternative way to access the front-panel controls and work with the resulting data.? ? Both programs can compose wideband sweeps from adjacent 10 MHz spans.? You can expect some spurs in those wideband sweeps, since there's no image rejection. ?These boxes were really optimized to study a particular signal in detail, rather than to sweep across entire bands. ? Dick has a lot of other useful MATLAB programs for GPIB control at https://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/profile/authors/6564033-dick-benson (this link also appears at the bottom of the page at http://www.ke5fx.com/gpib/readme.htm where SSM and the other GPIB Toolkit utilities are maintained). ? -- john, KE5FX ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jeff Anderson
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:30 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] E4406A MATLAB Application? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at Dick Benson's description of his MATLAB application (as described in the PDF included with his MATLAB files) and comparing his features with those in John Miles' SSM.EXE, it looks to me as though SSM.EXE is quite a different beast from Benson's MATLAB application.?
Benson's application mimics the controls of a basic spectrum analyzer (and includes bells and whistles such as the ability to do Harmonic and IMD analysis, as well as trace memory), while Miles' program seems to me to be much more of a spectrum surveillance tool.
- Jeff
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Re: Issue with homemade diode power sensor for HP meters
Is there any other company on the planet who produces 50 OHM thermocouples? It seems odd that such a thing is unobtainable.
|
Re: Readings from 436A power meter using 82357B USB-GPIB?
Hi Staffan
The physical layer for IEE-488 itself is essentially unchanged from
the original.? 488.2 deals more with the messaging protocol.
This is where all the "universal" commands originated (all the *
commands like *IDN?, etc.).
If you saw my PM to you a bit ago, you saw an example of a
"non-488.2" communication using the Agilent IO libraries.? In other
words, those nifty commands are not available to the old "R2D2"
command structure instruments.? I guess I'll include that listing
here, for others to see as well.? This code sets up and gets
readings from an HP3478A voltmeter, which is pre-488.2 (R2D2
"language")
Daun
Daun E. Yeagley II, N8ASB
On 11/19/2018 4:01 PM, Staffan wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hello,
Many thanks. Notice that I replied to your direct mail. I don't
think the problem lies in the 436, but rather in how the USB
dongle 82357 performs communication. Don't know if the GPIB
standard was updated - 488.2 seems to be from 1992, whereas the
instrument predates 1980. It would be great to have a
configuration within VISA to support different standards for
different instruments - or is this perhaps not needed? Sounds
strange that there shouldn't be sufficient backwards compatibility
for a data bus!
Regards,
? Staffan
|
Re: Readings from 436A power meter using 82357B USB-GPIB?
Hello,
Many thanks. Notice that I replied to your direct mail. I don't think the problem lies in the 436, but rather in how the USB dongle 82357 performs communication. Don't know if the GPIB standard was updated - 488.2 seems to be from 1992, whereas the instrument predates 1980. It would be great to have a configuration within VISA to support different standards for different instruments - or is this perhaps not needed? Sounds strange that there shouldn't be sufficient backwards compatibility for a data bus!
Regards,
? Staffan
|
Re: Readings from 436A power meter using 82357B USB-GPIB?
Hi Saffan, I sent you in PM some military manual for 436A. Go from page 3-18 onward, there is about HPIB communication. Milan
Hello,
Some more findings... It seems like my Arduino can talk to the instrument after all. Pulling REN low (active) makes it listen to commands sent to its listen address.? However, with the REN (remote enable) active, it _won't_ return any readings! Releasing REN, I get readouts again...
Can it be that the 82357B keeps the REN line low the whole time it has the instrument addressed? If so, anyone can hint me how to pull it high when I want to read from the instrument?
Thanks to the code in the Arduino project (again, thanks to Emanuele Girlando!) I'm fairly sure what sequence to send (control lines). Anyone know how this can be bit-banged (for example) on the 82357B? The Interactive IO does not give many options unfortunately.
Regards, ? Staffan ? Staffan
On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 2:07 PM Tom Holmes < tholmes@...> wrote: Steffan...
Maybe I missed you saying so, but with the Keysight IOLibraries installed the 82357A/B should be essentially transparent to you. Connection Expert will let you assign it a name such as GPIB0 and then you just send commands to the 436's address.
I don't recall the exact details but there is a box to check to use 488.2 vintage protocol but that's about it. Unless there is something amiss with it, I doubt that the adapter is the problem. Since it appears to be at least sending commands, that doesn't seem likely.
From Tom Holmes, N8ZM
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Re: Intermittent noise on HP 8568B
I made a video (it is quite loud, so lower the volume a bit! :-)):
I had a bad diode in the log amp in IF section of my HP 8566B that manifested in a similar manner. See < /g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/message/73067> for the thread. I have a couple of YouTube videos of the behavior mine exhibited. Here's one <>.
Key points that would have helped me isolate it at the time are: 1. Occurs in zero span at low levels for all frequencies - so not frequency dependent. 2. Does not occur in linear mode.
Good luck, Siggi
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Re: Intermittent noise on HP 8568B
I had something very similar on my 8568B.? It turned out that one of the coax connectors on the A23 assembly was loose.? The noise would come and go as I moved the coax cables inside the RF unit.? The connector in question is completely invisible with the bottom cover off.? I think you can get to this connector by following the A23 removal instructions until you can see it.? It was difficult to find this problem as the cable in question meanders quite a way around the instrument and moving other cables tended to move it too.
While I was working on my power sensor thing, I wanted to check the spectrum of some signal generator by using my 8568B spectrum analyzer.
About one year ago, I had the problem that the analyzer had some intermittent noise, i.e. it was mostly working fine, but for short periods, its noise rose quite a bit. I was not able to determine the source of the problem, but after a while, it somehow fixed itself and didn't appear anymore.
UNTIL NOW! ARGH! I need to fix this.
I made a video (it is quite loud, so lower the volume a bit! :-)):
The signal shown on that screen is an ultra low phase noise OCXO which is powered up since a week or so, so it has definitely settled in frequency. One can clearly see that most of the time, the signal is displayed nicely, but for a short time, the noise rises quite a bit and there are some artifacts visible.
I have already checked the power supplies, and they seem to be fine and within spec. The spectrum analyzer is also powered since about two weeks or so, so its internal OCXO is definitely also settled.
What else could cause this type of problem? has anyone ever seen something like that? I was also thinking whether it is some sort of ground loop or so, so I removed my OCXO signal and connected the calibrator signal. Same behaviour, so I assume it's something generated within the analyzer.
Any ideas?
Best
Tobias HB9FSX
|
Re: Readings from 436A power meter using 82357B USB-GPIB?
Hello,
Some more findings... It seems like my Arduino can talk to the instrument after all. Pulling REN low (active) makes it listen to commands sent to its listen address.? However, with the REN (remote enable) active, it _won't_ return any readings! Releasing REN, I get readouts again...
Can it be that the 82357B keeps the REN line low the whole time it has the instrument addressed? If so, anyone can hint me how to pull it high when I want to read from the instrument?
Thanks to the code in the Arduino project (again, thanks to Emanuele Girlando!) I'm fairly sure what sequence to send (control lines). Anyone know how this can be bit-banged (for example) on the 82357B? The Interactive IO does not give many options unfortunately.
Regards, ? Staffan ? Staffan
On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 2:07 PM Tom Holmes < tholmes@...> wrote: Steffan...
Maybe I missed you saying so, but with the Keysight IOLibraries installed the 82357A/B should be essentially transparent to you. Connection Expert will let you assign it a name such as GPIB0 and then you just send commands to the 436's address.
I don't recall the exact details but there is a box to check to use 488.2 vintage protocol but that's about it. Unless there is something amiss with it, I doubt that the adapter is the problem. Since it appears to be at least sending commands, that doesn't seem likely.
From Tom Holmes, N8ZM
|
Intermittent noise on HP 8568B
While I was working on my power sensor thing, I wanted to check the spectrum of some signal generator by using my 8568B spectrum analyzer.
About one year ago, I had the problem that the analyzer had some intermittent noise, i.e. it was mostly working fine, but for short periods, its noise rose quite a bit. I was not able to determine the source of the problem, but after a while, it somehow fixed itself and didn't appear anymore.
UNTIL NOW! ARGH! I need to fix this.
I made a video (it is quite loud, so lower the volume a bit! :-)):
The signal shown on that screen is an ultra low phase noise OCXO which is powered up since a week or so, so it has definitely settled in frequency. One can clearly see that most of the time, the signal is displayed nicely, but for a short time, the noise rises quite a bit and there are some artifacts visible.
I have already checked the power supplies, and they seem to be fine and within spec. The spectrum analyzer is also powered since about two weeks or so, so its internal OCXO is definitely also settled.
What else could cause this type of problem? has anyone ever seen something like that? I was also thinking whether it is some sort of ground loop or so, so I removed my OCXO signal and connected the calibrator signal. Same behaviour, so I assume it's something generated within the analyzer.
Any ideas?
Best
Tobias HB9FSX
|
RFI-EMI-GUY
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