Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
Bloatware the NI "Drivers" may be, but there are some useful
features.
One of my favourites, is "NI IO Trace", or in old speek "NISpy".
Absolutely invaluable when debugging code, or recalcitrant
instruments.
It is installed as standard, but often no shortcut/launcher is
shown by default.
I forget where it's located, but is not difficult to find.
Enjoy.
Dave 'KBV.
Oh, just don't try and mix NI's VISA subsystem, with another
makers version.? It's quicker to flatten the PC and start over,
than to unpick the mess created.
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Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
Here is the second important volume for this software.
Please note that HP Basic for Windows is in fact TRANSERA HT BASIC.
Meaning that if you encounter Transera products, you can use them instead.
Software written in both environments would be compatible.
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Re: 1 mw - 0dbm lab calibration
There are several videos of Tegam equipment on YouTube? Ing. Patricio A. GrecoTaller Aeronáutico de Reparación 1B-349Organización de Mantenimiento Aeronáutico de la Defensa OMAD-001Gral. Martín Rodríguez 2159San Miguel (1663)Buenos AiresT:?+5411-4455-2557F:?+5411-4032-0072
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On 1 May 2025, at 10:17, Razvan Popescu via groups.io <yo8ryr@...> wrote:
? I cannot find the article about the 1830A where Tegam said they used a type IV bridge and added a 6.5 digit multimeter to build the 1830A.1830A is more used in the calibration labs together with the transfer standards they also sell combined with the PS-Cal software or SureCal one which can control the power meter and usually two VNAs for low band and high band to automatically calibrate power sensors and also output the fancy report.I never saw them independently used outside the calibration rack. Tegam sells complete racks for this purpose.When doing the calibration one must take in consideration all components used in the uncertainty formulas. That includes power meter/thermistor mount/VNA/resistive splitter/attenuators...Does anyone have any calibration lab procedure and uncertainty calculation for RF power sensors? I found different white papers that have some formulas that they used but I am interested if anyone has the exact procedure used on daily basis by cal labs.On 01/05/2025 01:19, jmr via groups.io wrote:I've not used any Tegam gear but I think it's reasonable to assume they know what they are doing. I don't think there will be anything exotic about this type of meter because the aim will be to replicate the DC substitution technique used with my old HP 432A meter.
When using the old 432A you first have to measure the resistance of the mount resistance inside the 432A and you have to include the cable in this as well. This is because this acts as a series sense resistor in an IV system. Then it is just a case of zeroing the meter and measuring the voltages at Vrf and Vcomp with the source on and off.
Obviously, having to measure the mount resistance by hand is a major pain because it means unscrewing the thermistor head from the cable each time and measuring the resistance with a decent ohmmeter and then refitting the sensor. My 432A mount resistance has never changed from about 200.2 ohms but I still measure it each time.
I would expect that Tegam will use some form of four wire sensing system that lets them measure the mount resistance and all the voltages automatically with no user input. So there will be nothing to dismantle or measure manually. So it will be a lot quicker to do the DC substitution. The newer N432A will presumably be similar.
So I think it's reasonable to assume that both Tegam and Keysight know how to make a decent >6 digit DVM and four wire IV system that operates at DC. So any subtle differences in accuracy on a datasheet will largely be irrelevant as the uncertainty associated with the 478A thermistor will dominate here.
So it really is up to you if you can live with the clunky user interface of the Tegam unit. I wouldn't want to use it as a regular power meter because of the clunky menu system. At least the N432A has a proper keypad and a decent display.
If you have spotted a used Tegam unit then I guess it could be a bargain as long as it is in good working condition. I'd be concerned about long term support though. Tegam have been associated with acquisitions over the years and were acquired themselves a few years ago. So some of their product ranges could become obsolete at some point if the parent company decide to cut out stuff that doesn't generate much income..
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Re: 1 mw - 0dbm lab calibration
On Thu, May 1, 2025 at 02:17 PM, Razvan Popescu wrote:
I cannot find the article about the 1830A where Tegam said they used a type IV bridge and added a 6.5 digit multimeter to build the 1830A.
I'm not sure what is inside it but I assume it will use a pair of auto balancing bridges like the 432A system. I'm also assuming they use some form of 4 wire IV method to measure their own mount resistance.
It could be that the mount resistance is stable enough to not have to measure it. I'm just guessing really :)
?
I mentioned 6.5 digit DVM because Keysight describe their voltage measurement as being equivalent to a 6.5 digit DVM inside the N432A. Tegam will presumably use or claim something similar.
?
With the N432A I think you still have the option of connecting an 8.5 digit DVM externally to the rear of the instrument to do DC substitution the old school way. I suspect only the strictest calibration houses bother with the external 8.5 digit DVM. This probably represents the ultimate accuracy in terms of providing a highly accurate transfer standard.
?
I doubt the Tegam unit supports an external 8.5 digit DVM and this probably separates the two meters in terms of ultimate performance in terms of providing a highly accurate transfer standard. I doubt the Tegam unit can compete here even this is only relevant for critical users at calibration houses. Outside a calibration house this advanced feature of the N432A isn't really relevant.?
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Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
On 01/05/2025 09:47, Maurizio IZ1MDJ via groups.io wrote: Hi , why to not post the link of the image , so other people can download it ?
Regards Maurizio IZ1MDJ
Hi Maurizio, I think this is the link: Regards, Razvan
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Re: 1 mw - 0dbm lab calibration
I cannot find the article about the 1830A where Tegam said they used a type IV bridge and added a 6.5 digit multimeter to build the 1830A.
1830A is more used in the calibration labs together with the transfer standards they also sell combined with the PS-Cal software or SureCal one which can control the power meter and usually two VNAs for low band and high band to automatically calibrate power sensors and also output the fancy report.
I never saw them independently used outside the calibration rack. Tegam sells complete racks for this purpose.
When doing the calibration one must take in consideration all components used in the uncertainty formulas. That includes power meter/thermistor mount/VNA/resistive splitter/attenuators...
Does anyone have any calibration lab procedure and uncertainty calculation for RF power sensors? I found different white papers that have some formulas that they used but I am interested if anyone has the exact procedure used on daily basis by cal labs.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 01/05/2025 01:19, jmr via groups.io wrote: I've not used any Tegam gear but I think it's reasonable to assume they know what they are doing. I don't think there will be anything exotic about this type of meter because the aim will be to replicate the DC substitution technique used with my old HP 432A meter.
When using the old 432A you first have to measure the resistance of the mount resistance inside the 432A and you have to include the cable in this as well. This is because this acts as a series sense resistor in an IV system. Then it is just a case of zeroing the meter and measuring the voltages at Vrf and Vcomp with the source on and off.
Obviously, having to measure the mount resistance by hand is a major pain because it means unscrewing the thermistor head from the cable each time and measuring the resistance with a decent ohmmeter and then refitting the sensor. My 432A mount resistance has never changed from about 200.2 ohms but I still measure it each time.
I would expect that Tegam will use some form of four wire sensing system that lets them measure the mount resistance and all the voltages automatically with no user input. So there will be nothing to dismantle or measure manually. So it will be a lot quicker to do the DC substitution. The newer N432A will presumably be similar.
So I think it's reasonable to assume that both Tegam and Keysight know how to make a decent >6 digit DVM and four wire IV system that operates at DC. So any subtle differences in accuracy on a datasheet will largely be irrelevant as the uncertainty associated with the 478A thermistor will dominate here.
So it really is up to you if you can live with the clunky user interface of the Tegam unit. I wouldn't want to use it as a regular power meter because of the clunky menu system. At least the N432A has a proper keypad and a decent display.
If you have spotted a used Tegam unit then I guess it could be a bargain as long as it is in good working condition. I'd be concerned about long term support though. Tegam have been associated with acquisitions over the years and were acquired themselves a few years ago. So some of their product ranges could become obsolete at some point if the parent company decide to cut out stuff that doesn't generate much income..
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Re: HP83651A HPGL language settings
Hi Tom,
?
Try to verify if this software can help you to drive your sweeper :
?
?
Dan.
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Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
Thanks Hardy, that one should be a great help
Peter
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Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
Hi Peter Here are ?one of the manuals… mail me if you want more . Hardy ? ? The archive? ()? does contain 19 files but 13 of them just appear to be jpegs of the physical media (including the license certificate) I was able to generate an .iso image from the .bin and ,cue files that are in the archive and install from that What the archive does not appear to contain is the actual contents of the various manuals.? The package itself is a little quirky so it would be useful to get hold of .pdfs of at least the Installing and User's manuals to confirm how it is intended to operate
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Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
For the record, the installation process completed without issue on a Windows 10 machine
?
I also installed the National Instruments GPIB driver package (strong competitor for the world's largest driver download).?
?
For GPIB hardware I used an NI USB-GPIB.? Amongst many other things, the NI driver installs a program (NIMax) where GPIB hardware installed on the machine can be interrogated.? In this program you can check that the hardware is installed correctly and the name that has been assigned to the interface.?
In my case 'GPIB0' i.e. the zeroth GPIB interface
?
To open the GPIB interface in BASIC you need to include the line
?
LOAD BIN "GPIBNI; DEV GPIB0"? ? ?<----- note the name used here is the one shown in NIMax
?
Then use regular HPBASIC commands to talk to hardware? i.e.
?
ASSIGN @Isc TO 7
ASSIGN @Scope TO 707
CLEAR @Isc
OUTPUT @Scope; "*RST"
OUTPUT @Scope; "*IDN?"
ENTER @Scope; Id$
?
etc.
?
From a fresh machine to talking to hardware in about 30 mins
?
Peter
?
?
?
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Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
Hi Don,
?
The archive? ()? does contain 19 files but 13 of them just appear to be jpegs of the physical media (including the license certificate)
?
I was able to generate an .iso image from the .bin and ,cue files that are in the archive and install from that
?
What the archive does not appear to contain is the actual contents of the various manuals.?
?
The package itself is a little quirky so it would be useful to get hold of .pdfs of at least the Installing and User's manuals to confirm how it is intended to operate
?
Peter
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Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
Sadly ko4bb shows...
Warning: mkdir(): No space left on device in
/var/www/html/getsimple/admin/inc/theme_functions.php(544) :
eval()'d code on line 67
When you go there....
Regards.
Dave 'KBV
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Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 10:54 PM, Peter Brown wrote:
I have found the installation image for HP Basic for Windows 6.33 on the internet archive
From the images in the archive it looks as though there were a number of printed manuals that were supplied with the package
I am especially interested in the? Installing and Using and? User's manual
?
Does anyone have access to these documents in .pdf from?
?
Peter
?
Hi , why to not post the link of the image , so other people can download it ? Regards Maurizio IZ1MDJ
?
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Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
Years ago i put it here
If the doesn’t work let me know.. Regards Hardy ? ? I have found the installation image for HP Basic for Windows 6.33 on the internet archive From the images in the archive it looks as though there were a number of printed manuals that were supplied with the package I am especially interested in the? Installing and Using and? User's manual Does anyone have access to these documents in .pdf from?
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Re: 1 mw - 0dbm lab calibration
I've not used any Tegam gear but I think it's reasonable to assume they know what they are doing. I don't think there will be anything exotic about this type of meter because the aim will be to replicate the DC substitution technique used with my old HP 432A meter.
?
When using the old 432A you first have to measure the resistance of the mount resistance inside the 432A and you have to include the cable in this as well. This is because this acts as a series sense resistor in an IV system. Then it is just a case of zeroing the meter and measuring the voltages at Vrf and Vcomp with the source on and off.
?
Obviously, having to measure the mount resistance by hand is a major pain because it means unscrewing the thermistor head from the cable each time and measuring the resistance with a decent ohmmeter and then refitting the sensor. My 432A mount resistance has never changed from about 200.2 ohms but I still measure it each time.
?
I would expect that Tegam will use some form of four wire sensing system that lets them measure the mount resistance and all the voltages automatically with no user input. So there will be nothing to dismantle or measure manually. So it will be a lot quicker to do the DC substitution. The newer N432A will presumably be similar.
?
So I think it's reasonable to assume that both Tegam and Keysight know how to make a decent >6 digit DVM and four wire IV system that operates at DC. So any subtle differences in accuracy on a datasheet will largely be irrelevant as the uncertainty associated with the 478A thermistor will dominate here.
?
So it really is up to you if you can live with the clunky user interface of the Tegam unit. I wouldn't want to use it as a regular power meter because of the clunky menu system. At least the N432A has a proper keypad and a decent display.?
?
If you have spotted a used Tegam unit then I guess it could be a bargain as long as it is in good working condition. I'd be concerned about long term support though. Tegam have been associated with acquisitions over the years and were acquired themselves a few years ago. So some of their product ranges could become obsolete at some point if the parent company decide to cut out stuff that doesn't generate much income..
?
?
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Re: 1 mw - 0dbm lab calibration
On 30/04/2025 22:52, Paul Bicknell via groups.io wrote: Hi Razvan
Hi Paul OK it is frustrating that it seams so difficult to find users of the Tegam 1830 A
Over the next few weeks I would like to get onto the Tegam forum so you might possibly send the link you have to me The link is not existing anymore. It was available on the old Tegam website but it seems that Advanced Energy, the new owner of Tegam, migrated them to the new website. For me the link was not working anyway, probably the forum was already closed when I tried it?! Regarding calibration have you down loaded the user's manual ?? As from that it seems that the user can calibrate the Tegam 1830 A using standard Dc lab standards Advanced Energy provides the manuals and other docs for the 1830A except the firmware. If you manage to get the firmware please let me know. Manual link: Other Technical docs: Procedure to calibrate it is simple if you have the 3 items that they mention in the manual. To initiate the calibration you need to connect to the power meter via ethernet port and there is a menu for calibration and verification in the webUI. Seems to be straight forward. I think I will also have to try and contact a few Calibration houses in the UK
If they are 17025 accredited labs you can check online their accreditation to see what standards they use for the "RF Power Measurements". I checked last year a few cal labs in the EU and none of them had any Tegam stuff. They had Keysight and R&S power meters and sensors and probably they will do a comparison with their calibrated power sensor head in a setup similar to the one in Jeremy's photo. They normally use a software to do that fast and also compute all data in a report and print a new label for you or update the cal table in the EEPROM via software. Check out Cal Lab Solutions, they have a software called PS-Cal that supports the Tegam hardware. Regards Paul
Regards, Razvan
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Re: 1 mw - 0dbm lab calibration
Hi Razvan
OK it is frustrating that it seams so difficult to find users of the Tegam 1830 A
Over the next few weeks I would like to get onto the Tegam forum so you might possibly send the link you have to me
Regarding calibration have you down loaded the user's manual ?? As from that it seems that the user can calibrate the Tegam 1830 A using standard Dc lab standards
I think I will also have to try and contact a few Calibration houses in the UK
Regards Paul
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Razvan Popescu via groups.io Sent: 29 April 2025 22:34 To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 1 mw - 0dbm lab calibration On 29/04/2025 23:06, Paul Bicknell via groups.io wrote: I have been talking to people today about the Tegam 1830 A and as yet
I cannot find anyone in the UK that has actually sold one or used one I was also looking for someone that used any Tegam products so I can ask more questions about the procedures for the calibration of power sensors and uncertainty calculations but I couldn't find anyone. I wrote to 2 persons that advertised calibration software and services for Tegam but no reply.
I assume those that are using the Tegam 1830 A are talking to each
other either through standards or possibly a user group for Tegam
instruments
Tegam had a forum (community) but for me the link never worked. I couldn't find any other Tegam related forum or group. You will need to make some friends at some Metrology or Calibration Lab but first check their 17025 accreditation, they should specify what hardware they use for RF Power Measurements.
I was told that the Tegam 1830 A 1has been around for about 10 years
and is ?6600
The first dated firmware release for 1930A was in 2011. There were a few other firmware releases before but I couldn't find any release date for those, so I would assume that 1830A is at least from 2011 on the market. Comments please Paul
Regards, Razvan
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Re: HP83651A HPGL language settings
Hi Bert,
?
TMSL (I guess it means Test and Measurement Script Language) appears to be the old HP terminology for SCPI.
Anyway, 000 appears to be the correct setting. The box understands *IDN? now, which is SCPI.
Now, if there only was a decent programming manual for the 8360.
Any idea how to set CW mode, a frequency and an output power?
?
Tom
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Re: HP Basic for Windows 6.33, printed documentation
Peter,
Have you downloaded, checked the files? It is implied that there are 19 files in the download, 5 of which are the .pdf manuals you are looking for, check the .jpeg files.
Look at the 2nd image, and all of them, the product key is on one of the images, and it tells you that it is for Win95 or WinNT (my choice would be NT).
Don Bitters
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Re: Converting VNA HP8510C to 8530A for Antenna Measurements
Yes, message #10342? and up, this group.io.
Don Bitters
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Patricio A. Greco
Paul Bicknell