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Re: HP ESG3000A backlight issue revisited....your thoughts please?

 

error,
Same for pin 1 of U605, 0 to -10V varying the brightness

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On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 12:10?PM Milan Vasic <vasa1958@...> wrote:
Dave,
First check your motherboard model:
The E4400-60124 can only use display with Negative contrast (VLDC)
The E4400-60035 can use pos and neg VLDC
I know, its for contrast, but DAC configuration is the same: part A of U604 for brightness, part B for contrast.
Check voltage swing on pin 7 of U605 varying the contrast, should be 0 to -10V.
Same for pin 1 of U604, 0 to -10V varying the brightness.
If this OK, problem is after DAC.
Milan

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On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 10:43?AM Dave B via <davebullockmbe=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Milan,
Thanks, yes I had spotted the DAC is an AD7528 and that it seems to be powered only from +5V suggesting that the output can only be a varying positive voltage?
?
Looking at this simplified block diagram the 'inverting' amplifier following the DAC would then suggest a negative varying voltage at TP601?
This does seem to agree with the voltage I am measuring on my instrument i.e. (minus) 0.24V to (minus) 1.33V. (
Though why such a limited range?)
I have scoured all the 'service' information that I have managed to find on the web, and despite TP601 being a relevant test point to aid fault finding around the DAC area
there are NO "fault finding" flow diagrams or Test point voltage tables to be found anywhere!
It's very frustrating.
If my backlight control voltage is correct (and it now seems to agree with the schematic?) I am still bemused how it controls the CCFL inverter which is powered from +5V, meaning
the control voltage is operating outside the rails of the inverter.
Very intriguing?
Thanks for all your help.
Dave
?
Re: HP ESG3000A backlight issue revisited....your thoughts please?

 

Dave,
First check your motherboard model:
The E4400-60124 can only use display with Negative contrast (VLDC)
The E4400-60035 can use pos and neg VLDC
I know, its for contrast, but DAC configuration is the same: part A of U604 for brightness, part B for contrast.
Check voltage swing on pin 7 of U605 varying the contrast, should be 0 to -10V.
Same for pin 1 of U604, 0 to -10V varying the brightness.
If this OK, problem is after DAC.
Milan

Virus-free.


On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 10:43?AM Dave B via <davebullockmbe=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Milan,
Thanks, yes I had spotted the DAC is an AD7528 and that it seems to be powered only from +5V suggesting that the output can only be a varying positive voltage?
?
Looking at this simplified block diagram the 'inverting' amplifier following the DAC would then suggest a negative varying voltage at TP601?
This does seem to agree with the voltage I am measuring on my instrument i.e. (minus) 0.24V to (minus) 1.33V. (
Though why such a limited range?)
I have scoured all the 'service' information that I have managed to find on the web, and despite TP601 being a relevant test point to aid fault finding around the DAC area
there are NO "fault finding" flow diagrams or Test point voltage tables to be found anywhere!
It's very frustrating.
If my backlight control voltage is correct (and it now seems to agree with the schematic?) I am still bemused how it controls the CCFL inverter which is powered from +5V, meaning
the control voltage is operating outside the rails of the inverter.
Very intriguing?
Thanks for all your help.
Dave
?
Re: HP ESG3000A backlight issue revisited....your thoughts please?

 

Hi Milan,
Thanks, yes I had spotted the DAC is an AD7528 and that it seems to be powered only from +5V suggesting that the output can only be a varying positive voltage?
?
Looking at this simplified block diagram the 'inverting' amplifier following the DAC would then suggest a negative varying voltage at TP601?
This does seem to agree with the voltage I am measuring on my instrument i.e. (minus) 0.24V to (minus) 1.33V. (
Though why such a limited range?)
I have scoured all the 'service' information that I have managed to find on the web, and despite TP601 being a relevant test point to aid fault finding around the DAC area
there are NO "fault finding" flow diagrams or Test point voltage tables to be found anywhere!
It's very frustrating.
If my backlight control voltage is correct (and it now seems to agree with the schematic?) I am still bemused how it controls the CCFL inverter which is powered from +5V, meaning
the control voltage is operating outside the rails of the inverter.
Very intriguing?
Thanks for all your help.
Dave
?
Re: Troubleshooting a 8591e with opt 130

 

Hi Yves,
?
That's a clear overview, I agree it's better to repair the first converter.
I googled for the diodes for a bit, found the HSMS-2812 to be obsolete. Did find the Macom MA4E1338B1 series to be pretty close on RF specs but it has a breakdown voltage of only 8v compared to the 15v of the HSMS-2812. Not too sure wether that would be a problem though. They aren't sold in matched pairs so i'd have to try to match them myself I guess.
So would be good to know where you got the replacement diodes and which you got.?
?
My SA doesn't have the GPIB port but it does have the serial and parrallel port, I found some other projects online of people making printer/plotter emulators to be able to get screencaptures but none look as good as yours do.
?
I should be able to start fixing the attenuator next week.
?
Marco
?
?
Re: HP 16500C Display Question

 

Does anybody know ( maybe in one of the service manuals ) if I could find the pinout of what I think is 40 pin IDC that plugs into the side of the 16500L module. That cable I think it comes off 16500B motherboard. I want to find a pinout for that ( unlikely but hopeful ) ...?


On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 8:12?AM Adrian Godwin via <artgodwin=[email protected]> wrote:
I thought I'd seen something on eevblog but didn't find that.
I think that card is another of these programmable devices but for ?20 shipped I'll give it a try. I want to do something like this for a 53310A and it might work there.
?



--
Damien Towning

?
Re: Another dead 8753D YTO

 

Hi all,
?
I'm happy to report that I've successfully running the Wiltron YTO in my HP8753D :-)
?
All thanks to well documented YTO replacements for the HP8753C and the luck that HP8753D have almost identical A11 Loop filter and EYO driver.
?
To get the YIG working I had to utilize the -15V line in pin1 on the EYO connector in the A3 source to make -5V for the Wiltron YTO.
?
I did not change the A11 Q7 transistor, but I put a 2mm thick copper plate under it.
?
And do not forget to run all the adjustments that is necessary after A3 source module change.
?
Before and after pics below.
?
Any questions, just post in this thread and I'll try to answer.
?
Best regards
Marcus, SA5PMG
?
?
?
WTB HP/AG 85032B Cal Kit or N FEM parts

 

WTB HP/AG 85032B Cal Kit or N FEM parts
?
WTB 1 each:
85032-60005 N Load Female
85032-60009 N Short Female?
85032-60012 N Open Female
?
Standards need to be in very good condition, thanks.
Kit Foam in box can be crummy, that's OK
?
Will consider entire 85032B Cal Kit for the right price.
Please reply direct to me with your offers, photos would be great.
Please include shipping to WA 98292.
Thanks very much
Jason Kovatch
Re: HP ESG3000A backlight issue revisited....your thoughts please?

 

DAC is AD7528JP, check the datasheet
Milan

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On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 8:39?PM Milan Vasic via <vasa1958=[email protected]> wrote:


On Sat, 9 Nov 2024, 20:14 Dave B via , <davebullockmbe=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Milan,
Wow that's great to see an actual schematic and a test point, you are a star :-)
Do you have any data for what the voltages should be at that test point TP601?
Presumably when testing the engineer checks TP601 at "backlight off" and Backlight full brightness" and notes the correct control voltage?
?
?
This would be the information that would be key to my getting my new backlight driver interfaced correctly as I seem to have been completely misled.
Thanks for your kind help.
Dave
Re: HP ESG3000A backlight issue revisited....your thoughts please?

 



On Sat, 9 Nov 2024, 20:14 Dave B via , <davebullockmbe=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Milan,
Wow that's great to see an actual schematic and a test point, you are a star :-)
Do you have any data for what the voltages should be at that test point TP601?
Presumably when testing the engineer checks TP601 at "backlight off" and Backlight full brightness" and notes the correct control voltage?
?
?
This would be the information that would be key to my getting my new backlight driver interfaced correctly as I seem to have been completely misled.
Thanks for your kind help.
Dave
Re: HP ESG3000A backlight issue revisited....your thoughts please?

 

Hi Milan,
Wow that's great to see an actual schematic and a test point, you are a star :-)
Do you have any data for what the voltages should be at that test point TP601?
Presumably when testing the engineer checks TP601 at "backlight off" and Backlight full brightness" and notes the correct control voltage?
?
?
This would be the information that would be key to my getting my new backlight driver interfaced correctly as I seem to have been completely misled.
Thanks for your kind help.
Dave
Re: HP ESG3000A backlight issue revisited....your thoughts please?

 

Here is brightness driver...
Milan

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On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 6:41?PM Dave B via <davebullockmbe=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Milan,
I think that schematic is for the actual LCD contrast on the screen itself.
What I am battling with is the LCD BACKLIGHT driver which had a very thin fluorescent tube (CCFL) driven by a high voltage inverter module (as shown in my picture).
Its the 'dimming' control voltage that seems to be causing me grief as the YouTube chap states he measured 0.2V d.c. to 4.7V d.c. from dim to full brightness whereas I measure (minus) 0.24V to (minus) 1.33V
for the same level of control.
My question is how does one sig-gen seem to have a positive control voltage range whilst mine is a negative going control signal when the CCFL inverter module is the same in both instruments.
And can anyone explain this difference PLEASE?
Dave

Brightness driver.pdf
Brightness driver.pdf

Re: Troubleshooting a 8591e with opt 130

 

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Hi Marco,

?

Here are your results and mine tabulated.

That the source signal is not exactly -20.0dBm, will not change the conclusion.

Just like you, I used my 300 MHz and harmonics calibrator as a signal source.

I had done the tests for the Spectrum attenuator at 0dB or 10dB, not knowing what this condition was in your previous email.

Here we have the 2 conditions, so I used them.

?

Using the fact that there is a test where there is no external attenuator, allows us to evaluate the external attenuators of 10dB and 20dB as well as their sum.

We were able to assume that the values ??of the external attenuators (10dB and 20dB) are quite close to their nominal values.

This allows us to see the linearity over a 30dB range.

Calculating the difference between, without attenuator and 10dB, I would expect -10dB difference, if the attenuator was precisely 10dB.

And whether the Spectrum is with its attenuator configuration of 0dB or 10dB, should not change this result, even for jumps of 20dB, or 30dB.

?

So, columns E and F should show values ??of -10, -20 and -30 if the external attenuators were perfect and the mixer was perfectly linear.

Column G should show the value of 0dB everywhere.

?

If you look at the results of my Spectrum 8591A, the results follow the logic of results -10, -20 and -30, then 0 in column G

?

But your Spectrum 8591E has non-negligible deviations, and considering the images, I would say that your first converter is damaged… but it is easily repairable.

I will send you the details.

?

-----------

?

For screenshots, it's a software I made for a GPIB interface, but I can certainly use the serial link if that can help you.

?

Having lost your calibration constants, it is probably normal to have this offset.

But it would be preferable for now to do the attenuator repair before doing a CAL FREQ.

?

If you manage to get a TinySA ultra, you will be able to directly measure the output of the first converter at 2.1214GHz

?

Yves

?

De?: [email protected] <[email protected]> De la part de jansen.marco90 via groups.io
贰苍惫辞测é?: 9 novembre 2024 08:57
??: [email protected]
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Troubleshooting a 8591e with opt 130

?

Hi Yves,

?

I did the measurements all with the SA's attenuator set to 10dBm. I redid the measurements with both SA attenuator settings, see table below.

I'm still using the cal out of the SA because I don't have a more trustworthy source yet.

?

300 MHz

Spectrum ATT

?

EXT ATT

0 dB

10 dB

?

0 dB att

-15

-5

ref level 0dBm

10db att

-25,9

-15,7

?

20db att

-37,5

-26,3

?

30db att

-49,5

-37,9

?

?

?

?

?

1500 MHz

Spectrum ATT

?

EXT ATT

0 dB

10 dB

?

0 dB att

-30,8

-19,8

?

10db att

-45,7

-34,2

?

20db att

-56,5

-44,9

?

30db att

-68,4

-57

?

?

On the other images, I tried to reproduce them, I'm just taking pictures of the screen though. Are you using a GPIB interface to make those? Or can it also be done with the serial output?

The noise increase at lower frequencies doesn't seem to be there. There is an offset in the frequency though, the 0Hz peak seems to be around 580kHz

?

?

in a broader span with the cal signal connected (through 10dB external attenuator) The 0Hz peak is near the reference level, the 300MHz signal is also quite high.?

?

?

So, I’ll try to fix the attenuator and move on with another try of the self-call from there. I'm thinking of getting a TinySA ultra to be able to do some verification.?

?

Marco
Re: HP ESG3000A backlight issue revisited....your thoughts please?

 

Hi Milan,
I think that schematic is for the actual LCD contrast on the screen itself.
What I am battling with is the LCD BACKLIGHT driver which had a very thin fluorescent tube (CCFL) driven by a high voltage inverter module (as shown in my picture).
Its the 'dimming' control voltage that seems to be causing me grief as the YouTube chap states he measured 0.2V d.c. to 4.7V d.c. from dim to full brightness whereas I measure (minus) 0.24V to (minus) 1.33V
for the same level of control.
My question is how does one sig-gen seem to have a positive control voltage range whilst mine is a negative going control signal when the CCFL inverter module is the same in both instruments.
And can anyone explain this difference PLEASE?
Dave
85620A Firmware

  

Does anyone have a backup of the firmware of the Mass-memory module 85620A?
Firmware Version 90-05-24 consisting of 3 files U1, U2 and U3. 
I have already split the version 91-01-16, single eprom U7 into 3 files, but it does not solve my problem. 

Thanks! Guido
Re: HP ESG3000A backlight issue revisited....your thoughts please?

 

Hi Dave,
Maybe this help...
Milan

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On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 5:05?PM Dave B via <davebullockmbe=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi HP experts,
?
A few months ago I picked up an HP ESG-D3000A 3GHz sig-gen with a very dim backlight and discussed with several members on this platform where to find a schematic.
I had decided to replace the CCFL with LED's and had found a YouTube contributor who had attempted just such a modification:-
So wishing only to disassemble my signal generator once (and based on the YouTube video and your helpful comments) I designed a microcontroller based PWM driver that would be
powered from the existing CCFL inverters 5V input supply and be controlled by the signal generator's existing control voltage. (Simple, just plug and play!)
The YouTube video shows a three wire connection to the CCFL inverter which was allegedly 0V (GND), +5V (HT) and a control voltage which according to the video varied
0.2V d.c. to 4.7V d.c. from dim to full brightness. (zero to 50 HP units)
The video showed the make and model number of the CCFL inverter block as:-
?
?
albeit with a different (I assume) batch number? (9623A vs his 9725E)
This week the backlight wouldn't come on so it was finally time to open up the beast and try to fit my new LEDs and driver.
I made up an extension lead for the three way lead to bring the connections outside the instrument. I removed the LCD panel assembly and it was relatively easy to remove the CCFL tube and carefully?
fit the strip of 18 LEDs, fixed with a tiny dab of hot melt glue at each end.
I checked that the LEDs lit up with my new PWM driver board and that the LCD display was perfectly bright enough. It was a great success, bright and clear!
So......
Now I could see the LCD display again, it was time to check that the 3 wires (that went to the CCFL inverter) were indeed 0V, +5V and the control signal I was expecting as I rotated the f/p control knob. (zero to 50)
Doooh!
The 0V and +5V are correct, but the control voltage ranges from (minus) 0.24V to (minus) 1.33V? so the control voltage is going negative with respect to the 0V ground rail!
?
This of course does not agree with what I was expecting as the (measured?) YouTube control voltages, suggested a positive ranging DAC output?
?
Questions:-
Does anyone have experience with the CCFL inverter control voltages in the ESG series of signal generators?
You will of course point out that the YouTube video referred to an ESG-D2000A and NOT my? ESG-D3000A, yet both seem to be using the same CCFL inverter module (E1825C) so I would have expected the voltages to be the same?
During all the 'fiddling' about I did get the CCFL to light up (out of the generator) and it's brightness REALLY is varied by this negative voltage range, so the control voltage seems correct (not negative due to a fault).
How can the CCFL inverter be working with a control voltage that only goes (outside it's supply rail) i.e. below it's GND rail, and such a small swing at that!
Have I been 'suckered' by a 'spoof' YouTube video?
What is going on?
This is very annoying....all your help and expertise will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in anticipation......
Dave
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?

LCDcontrast.pdf
LCDcontrast.pdf

HP ESG3000A backlight issue revisited....your thoughts please?

 

Hi HP experts,
?
A few months ago I picked up an HP ESG-D3000A 3GHz sig-gen with a very dim backlight and discussed with several members on this platform where to find a schematic.
I had decided to replace the CCFL with LED's and had found a YouTube contributor who had attempted just such a modification:-
So wishing only to disassemble my signal generator once (and based on the YouTube video and your helpful comments) I designed a microcontroller based PWM driver that would be
powered from the existing CCFL inverters 5V input supply and be controlled by the signal generator's existing control voltage. (Simple, just plug and play!)
The YouTube video shows a three wire connection to the CCFL inverter which was allegedly 0V (GND), +5V (HT) and a control voltage which according to the video varied
0.2V d.c. to 4.7V d.c. from dim to full brightness. (zero to 50 HP units)
The video showed the make and model number of the CCFL inverter block as:-
?
?
albeit with a different (I assume) batch number? (9623A vs his 9725E)
This week the backlight wouldn't come on so it was finally time to open up the beast and try to fit my new LEDs and driver.
I made up an extension lead for the three way lead to bring the connections outside the instrument. I removed the LCD panel assembly and it was relatively easy to remove the CCFL tube and carefully?
fit the strip of 18 LEDs, fixed with a tiny dab of hot melt glue at each end.
I checked that the LEDs lit up with my new PWM driver board and that the LCD display was perfectly bright enough. It was a great success, bright and clear!
So......
Now I could see the LCD display again, it was time to check that the 3 wires (that went to the CCFL inverter) were indeed 0V, +5V and the control signal I was expecting as I rotated the f/p control knob. (zero to 50)
Doooh!
The 0V and +5V are correct, but the control voltage ranges from (minus) 0.24V to (minus) 1.33V? so the control voltage is going negative with respect to the 0V ground rail!
?
This of course does not agree with what I was expecting as the (measured?) YouTube control voltages, suggested a positive ranging DAC output?
?
Questions:-
Does anyone have experience with the CCFL inverter control voltages in the ESG series of signal generators?
You will of course point out that the YouTube video referred to an ESG-D2000A and NOT my? ESG-D3000A, yet both seem to be using the same CCFL inverter module (E1825C) so I would have expected the voltages to be the same?
During all the 'fiddling' about I did get the CCFL to light up (out of the generator) and it's brightness REALLY is varied by this negative voltage range, so the control voltage seems correct (not negative due to a fault).
How can the CCFL inverter be working with a control voltage that only goes (outside it's supply rail) i.e. below it's GND rail, and such a small swing at that!
Have I been 'suckered' by a 'spoof' YouTube video?
What is going on?
This is very annoying....all your help and expertise will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in anticipation......
Dave
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
Re: HP 8757C/D/E Service manual

 

Hello Guys,
Can i calibrate the 8757D whit a external source (power meter source - 50MHz 0 dBm) ?
Thanks Ben
Re: Troubleshooting a 8591e with opt 130

 

Hi Yves,
?
I did the measurements all with the SA's attenuator set to 10dBm. I redid the measurements with both SA attenuator settings, see table below.
I'm still using the cal out of the SA because I don't have a more trustworthy source yet.
?
300 MHz Spectrum ATT ?
EXT ATT 0 dB 10 dB ?
0 dB att -15 -5 ref level 0dBm
10db att -25,9 -15,7 ?
20db att -37,5 -26,3 ?
30db att -49,5 -37,9 ?
? ? ? ?
1500 MHz Spectrum ATT ?
EXT ATT 0 dB 10 dB ?
0 dB att -30,8 -19,8 ?
10db att -45,7 -34,2 ?
20db att -56,5 -44,9 ?
30db att -68,4 -57 ?
?
On the other images, I tried to reproduce them, I'm just taking pictures of the screen though. Are you using a GPIB interface to make those? Or can it also be done with the serial output?
The noise increase at lower frequencies doesn't seem to be there. There is an offset in the frequency though, the 0Hz peak seems to be around 580kHz
?
in a broader span with the cal signal connected (through 10dB external attenuator) The 0Hz peak is near the reference level, the 300MHz signal is also quite high.?
?
So i'll try to fix the attenuator and move on with another try of the selfcall from there. I'm thinking of getting a TinySA ultra to be able to do some verification.?
?
Marco
HP 62615M manual may also be combined with HP 62605

 

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does anyone have a manual for this beast?

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Re: Troubleshooting a 8591e with opt 130

 

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Marco, I forgot to include these remarks

?

Here are two signs of a damaged mixer that I have already noticed (blue curves):

- At 0 Hz, the carrier exceeds the reference level

- PRESET: ATTENUATOR = 0 dB (whether the attenuator is installed or not does not change anything). Between 0Hz and 10 MHz, the noise increases in the lower frequencies instead of remaining relatively flat.

?

Yves

?
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