开云体育

On Sep 20, 2024, at 19:44, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Lazarus Pascal, and no idea why they named it like that, their product picture is a cheetah.

Maybe one of the designers is a Howard?

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 6:50 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
A longer reply is due.

BUT ... "Lazarus", as in RAH's "Lazarus Long"?

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 18:36, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Pascal became windows pascal, which went nowhere, and was paralled by free pascal, which morphed in a kind of parallel development into Lazarus Pascal. That has pretty much all that visual C has, or perhaps had. The Borland (pascal) version became Delphi and became an egregiously for Profit version. Lazarus is free and object oriented too.

Delphi is object oriented. So is Lazarus.

There was a language called PLM-86 (intel) that I used for a good while, but not Object Oriented Programming (OOP).

I did C, then when I went from the 6502 (assembly only or tiny forth), then C (AVR), then finally C++ when I got into the ARM (STMicro) world. I have a graphics driver setup that is written in C++, and the hardware driver structure is in C (ST Micro) with a C++ overlay. FreeRTOS gets thrown in there, too.

Depends on what you're doing, but for some things, C++ and OOP make a lot of sense.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 6:09 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Yeah, Modula-2 never caught on. Neither did Pascal, actually. I did all my Applied Math programming in FORTRAN (calculating the zeroes of Bessel functions as a homework assignment at ~0600 on a weekday morning and getting a 'phone call from the data center sysadmin: "Dave, what are you running? You are using 98% of the CPU"). Later, of course, at work, everything was done using C or assembler. C++ came later; my only experience with OOP has been with SystemVerilog.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 15:08, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?I never found any Modula-2 compilers. I looked at what was out there (circa 1980 or so) and I got what would work on a PC for free.

Strictly low budget (and still, in a way, am).

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 2:45 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal was originally intended to be a "teaching" language only and was never intended to be used commercially. Modula-2 was supposed to fix that.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 13:44, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Nope, Borland Pascal, then Delphi.

It is possible to break the linker in Borland Pascal.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 12:36 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal? Did you ever write code in Niklaus Wirth's Modula-2?

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 09:52, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?You're welcome. I can take a design from concept to hardware to pc board to build and then do the same for software. Limitations, of course.

I always encouraged my students to learn both hardware and software, even if they were not going to use it immediately (either!).

I have a program written in C++ (on the PC) that parses an EAGLE board file, then produces an OpenSCAD file (will need custom OpenSCAD parts) to model the board. Makes it useful for designing cases and assemblies as well as getting an idea of what fits where.

So current languages? embedded C, C++ for microprocessors, C++ for the PC, VHDL for FPGAs, OpenSCAD for 3D designs.

I have mostly dropped Delphi, which can be somewhat annoying to code in. Not a bad language (Pascal), but gives me no transportability to the microprocessor realm.

I do mostly digital and power supply design (in support), with a reasonably heavy concentration in microprocessors.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 9:27 AM, Frank Mashockie wrote:
Thanks Harvey!
I really appreciate the feedback. The software is definitely my weakest point. I think it might be a good idea to start introducing myself to some of it. I've gotten familiar with programming development software to flash MCUs, but that is about it.
I love repair of PCBs. The problem solving and troubleshooting. Learning more about different types of circuits. With that, I think I'd like to get into PCB design. Definitely hardware related. But I guess I won't know for sure until I get into that degree - there's still so much I need/want to learn. I am also interested by power systems and the grid. I probably would have been a lineman if I wasn't afraid heights!
Sorry I don't mean to derail the thread, but I greatly appreciate the feedback!
-Frank

On 9/20/24 18:36, Harvey White wrote:

Pascal became windows pascal, which went nowhere, and was paralled by free pascal, which morphed in a kind of parallel development into Lazarus Pascal.? That has pretty much all that visual C has, or perhaps had.? The Borland (pascal) version became Delphi and became an egregiously for Profit version.? Lazarus is free and object oriented too.

? *Which* Pascal became "Windows Pascal"?? Languages vs. implementations.

??????????? -Dave

A longer reply is due.

BUT ... "Lazarus", as in RAH's "Lazarus Long"?

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 18:36, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Pascal became windows pascal, which went nowhere, and was paralled by free pascal, which morphed in a kind of parallel development into Lazarus Pascal. That has pretty much all that visual C has, or perhaps had. The Borland (pascal) version became Delphi and became an egregiously for Profit version. Lazarus is free and object oriented too.

Delphi is object oriented. So is Lazarus.

There was a language called PLM-86 (intel) that I used for a good while, but not Object Oriented Programming (OOP).

I did C, then when I went from the 6502 (assembly only or tiny forth), then C (AVR), then finally C++ when I got into the ARM (STMicro) world. I have a graphics driver setup that is written in C++, and the hardware driver structure is in C (ST Micro) with a C++ overlay. FreeRTOS gets thrown in there, too.

Depends on what you're doing, but for some things, C++ and OOP make a lot of sense.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 6:09 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Yeah, Modula-2 never caught on. Neither did Pascal, actually. I did all my Applied Math programming in FORTRAN (calculating the zeroes of Bessel functions as a homework assignment at ~0600 on a weekday morning and getting a 'phone call from the data center sysadmin: "Dave, what are you running? You are using 98% of the CPU"). Later, of course, at work, everything was done using C or assembler. C++ came later; my only experience with OOP has been with SystemVerilog.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 15:08, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?I never found any Modula-2 compilers. I looked at what was out there (circa 1980 or so) and I got what would work on a PC for free.

Strictly low budget (and still, in a way, am).

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 2:45 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal was originally intended to be a "teaching" language only and was never intended to be used commercially. Modula-2 was supposed to fix that.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 13:44, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Nope, Borland Pascal, then Delphi.

It is possible to break the linker in Borland Pascal.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 12:36 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal? Did you ever write code in Niklaus Wirth's Modula-2?

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 09:52, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?You're welcome. I can take a design from concept to hardware to pc board to build and then do the same for software. Limitations, of course.

I always encouraged my students to learn both hardware and software, even if they were not going to use it immediately (either!).

I have a program written in C++ (on the PC) that parses an EAGLE board file, then produces an OpenSCAD file (will need custom OpenSCAD parts) to model the board. Makes it useful for designing cases and assemblies as well as getting an idea of what fits where.

So current languages? embedded C, C++ for microprocessors, C++ for the PC, VHDL for FPGAs, OpenSCAD for 3D designs.

I have mostly dropped Delphi, which can be somewhat annoying to code in. Not a bad language (Pascal), but gives me no transportability to the microprocessor realm.

I do mostly digital and power supply design (in support), with a reasonably heavy concentration in microprocessors.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 9:27 AM, Frank Mashockie wrote:
Thanks Harvey!
I really appreciate the feedback. The software is definitely my weakest point. I think it might be a good idea to start introducing myself to some of it. I've gotten familiar with programming development software to flash MCUs, but that is about it.
I love repair of PCBs. The problem solving and troubleshooting. Learning more about different types of circuits. With that, I think I'd like to get into PCB design. Definitely hardware related. But I guess I won't know for sure until I get into that degree - there's still so much I need/want to learn. I am also interested by power systems and the grid. I probably would have been a lineman if I wasn't afraid heights!
Sorry I don't mean to derail the thread, but I greatly appreciate the feedback!
-Frank

On Sep 20, 2024, at 18:36, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Pascal became windows pascal, which went nowhere, and was paralled by free pascal, which morphed in a kind of parallel development into Lazarus Pascal. That has pretty much all that visual C has, or perhaps had. The Borland (pascal) version became Delphi and became an egregiously for Profit version. Lazarus is free and object oriented too.

Delphi is object oriented. So is Lazarus.

There was a language called PLM-86 (intel) that I used for a good while, but not Object Oriented Programming (OOP).

I did C, then when I went from the 6502 (assembly only or tiny forth), then C (AVR), then finally C++ when I got into the ARM (STMicro) world. I have a graphics driver setup that is written in C++, and the hardware driver structure is in C (ST Micro) with a C++ overlay. FreeRTOS gets thrown in there, too.

Depends on what you're doing, but for some things, C++ and OOP make a lot of sense.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 6:09 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Yeah, Modula-2 never caught on. Neither did Pascal, actually. I did all my Applied Math programming in FORTRAN (calculating the zeroes of Bessel functions as a homework assignment at ~0600 on a weekday morning and getting a 'phone call from the data center sysadmin: "Dave, what are you running? You are using 98% of the CPU"). Later, of course, at work, everything was done using C or assembler. C++ came later; my only experience with OOP has been with SystemVerilog.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 15:08, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?I never found any Modula-2 compilers. I looked at what was out there (circa 1980 or so) and I got what would work on a PC for free.

Strictly low budget (and still, in a way, am).

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 2:45 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal was originally intended to be a "teaching" language only and was never intended to be used commercially. Modula-2 was supposed to fix that.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 13:44, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Nope, Borland Pascal, then Delphi.

It is possible to break the linker in Borland Pascal.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 12:36 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal? Did you ever write code in Niklaus Wirth's Modula-2?

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 09:52, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?You're welcome. I can take a design from concept to hardware to pc board to build and then do the same for software. Limitations, of course.

I always encouraged my students to learn both hardware and software, even if they were not going to use it immediately (either!).

I have a program written in C++ (on the PC) that parses an EAGLE board file, then produces an OpenSCAD file (will need custom OpenSCAD parts) to model the board. Makes it useful for designing cases and assemblies as well as getting an idea of what fits where.

So current languages? embedded C, C++ for microprocessors, C++ for the PC, VHDL for FPGAs, OpenSCAD for 3D designs.

I have mostly dropped Delphi, which can be somewhat annoying to code in. Not a bad language (Pascal), but gives me no transportability to the microprocessor realm.

I do mostly digital and power supply design (in support), with a reasonably heavy concentration in microprocessors.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 9:27 AM, Frank Mashockie wrote:
Thanks Harvey!
I really appreciate the feedback. The software is definitely my weakest point. I think it might be a good idea to start introducing myself to some of it. I've gotten familiar with programming development software to flash MCUs, but that is about it.
I love repair of PCBs. The problem solving and troubleshooting. Learning more about different types of circuits. With that, I think I'd like to get into PCB design. Definitely hardware related. But I guess I won't know for sure until I get into that degree - there's still so much I need/want to learn. I am also interested by power systems and the grid. I probably would have been a lineman if I wasn't afraid heights!
Sorry I don't mean to derail the thread, but I greatly appreciate the feedback!
-Frank

Yeah, Modula-2 never caught on. Neither did Pascal, actually. I did all my Applied Math programming in FORTRAN (calculating the zeroes of Bessel functions as a homework assignment at ~0600 on a weekday morning and getting a 'phone call from the data center sysadmin: "Dave, what are you running? You are using 98% of the CPU"). Later, of course, at work, everything was done using C or assembler. C++ came later; my only experience with OOP has been with SystemVerilog.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 15:08, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?I never found any Modula-2 compilers. I looked at what was out there (circa 1980 or so) and I got what would work on a PC for free.

Strictly low budget (and still, in a way, am).

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 2:45 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal was originally intended to be a "teaching" language only and was never intended to be used commercially. Modula-2 was supposed to fix that.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 13:44, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Nope, Borland Pascal, then Delphi.

It is possible to break the linker in Borland Pascal.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 12:36 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal? Did you ever write code in Niklaus Wirth's Modula-2?

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 09:52, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?You're welcome. I can take a design from concept to hardware to pc board to build and then do the same for software. Limitations, of course.

I always encouraged my students to learn both hardware and software, even if they were not going to use it immediately (either!).

I have a program written in C++ (on the PC) that parses an EAGLE board file, then produces an OpenSCAD file (will need custom OpenSCAD parts) to model the board. Makes it useful for designing cases and assemblies as well as getting an idea of what fits where.

So current languages? embedded C, C++ for microprocessors, C++ for the PC, VHDL for FPGAs, OpenSCAD for 3D designs.

I have mostly dropped Delphi, which can be somewhat annoying to code in. Not a bad language (Pascal), but gives me no transportability to the microprocessor realm.

I do mostly digital and power supply design (in support), with a reasonably heavy concentration in microprocessors.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 9:27 AM, Frank Mashockie wrote:
Thanks Harvey!
I really appreciate the feedback. The software is definitely my weakest point. I think it might be a good idea to start introducing myself to some of it. I've gotten familiar with programming development software to flash MCUs, but that is about it.
I love repair of PCBs. The problem solving and troubleshooting. Learning more about different types of circuits. With that, I think I'd like to get into PCB design. Definitely hardware related. But I guess I won't know for sure until I get into that degree - there's still so much I need/want to learn. I am also interested by power systems and the grid. I probably would have been a lineman if I wasn't afraid heights!
Sorry I don't mean to derail the thread, but I greatly appreciate the feedback!
-Frank

On Sep 20, 2024, at 18:02, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Before the 6502 came out, I had access to Tektronix catalogs, and definitely wanted one of the calculators. So I found a source of surplus chips, all TTL, and a wirewrap board (sadly, all 16 pin/14 pin). Made a second deck with 24 and 40 pin chips. Built a display using shift registers, think I made that one color, and designed the CPU with 74181's. Designed its machine language, and had some start in programming it. It could do an indirect jump.

Then the 6502 came out.

I looked at the chip, looked at my 165 IC design, and cried a bit.

6502 it was, and I didn't look back.

Next project was wirewrapped, color display, step by step in hardware, keyboard and external display. It was built in an old calculator case.

It went on from there.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 5:27 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
I had a wirewrapped Apple motherboard. I built a Heathkit H-something monitor and used that system for a couple of years. The Apple motherboard was wirewrapped as a sort of joke or something. I ended up with it because no one else wanted it.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)

==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 16:48, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Aha. No Amigas.

Clone apple ][ motherboards and clone IBM PCs until laptops somewhat took over.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 4:42 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
I had one for my Amiga.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)

==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 15:08, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?I never found any Modula-2 compilers. I looked at what was out there (circa 1980 or so) and I got what would work on a PC for free.

Strictly low budget (and still, in a way, am).

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 2:45 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal was originally intended to be a "teaching" language only and was never intended to be used commercially. Modula-2 was supposed to fix that.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 13:44, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Nope, Borland Pascal, then Delphi.

It is possible to break the linker in Borland Pascal.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 12:36 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal? Did you ever write code in Niklaus Wirth's Modula-2?

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 09:52, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?You're welcome. I can take a design from concept to hardware to pc board to build and then do the same for software. Limitations, of course.

I always encouraged my students to learn both hardware and software, even if they were not going to use it immediately (either!).

I have a program written in C++ (on the PC) that parses an EAGLE board file, then produces an OpenSCAD file (will need custom OpenSCAD parts) to model the board. Makes it useful for designing cases and assemblies as well as getting an idea of what fits where.

So current languages? embedded C, C++ for microprocessors, C++ for the PC, VHDL for FPGAs, OpenSCAD for 3D designs.

I have mostly dropped Delphi, which can be somewhat annoying to code in. Not a bad language (Pascal), but gives me no transportability to the microprocessor realm.

I do mostly digital and power supply design (in support), with a reasonably heavy concentration in microprocessors.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 9:27 AM, Frank Mashockie wrote:
Thanks Harvey!
I really appreciate the feedback. The software is definitely my weakest point. I think it might be a good idea to start introducing myself to some of it. I've gotten familiar with programming development software to flash MCUs, but that is about it.
I love repair of PCBs. The problem solving and troubleshooting. Learning more about different types of circuits. With that, I think I'd like to get into PCB design. Definitely hardware related. But I guess I won't know for sure until I get into that degree - there's still so much I need/want to learn. I am also interested by power systems and the grid. I probably would have been a lineman if I wasn't afraid heights!
Sorry I don't mean to derail the thread, but I greatly appreciate the feedback!
-Frank

On Sep 20, 2024, at 15:08, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?I never found any Modula-2 compilers. I looked at what was out there (circa 1980 or so) and I got what would work on a PC for free.

Strictly low budget (and still, in a way, am).

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 2:45 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal was originally intended to be a "teaching" language only and was never intended to be used commercially. Modula-2 was supposed to fix that.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 13:44, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Nope, Borland Pascal, then Delphi.

It is possible to break the linker in Borland Pascal.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 12:36 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal? Did you ever write code in Niklaus Wirth's Modula-2?

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 09:52, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?You're welcome. I can take a design from concept to hardware to pc board to build and then do the same for software. Limitations, of course.

I always encouraged my students to learn both hardware and software, even if they were not going to use it immediately (either!).

I have a program written in C++ (on the PC) that parses an EAGLE board file, then produces an OpenSCAD file (will need custom OpenSCAD parts) to model the board. Makes it useful for designing cases and assemblies as well as getting an idea of what fits where.

So current languages? embedded C, C++ for microprocessors, C++ for the PC, VHDL for FPGAs, OpenSCAD for 3D designs.

I have mostly dropped Delphi, which can be somewhat annoying to code in. Not a bad language (Pascal), but gives me no transportability to the microprocessor realm.

I do mostly digital and power supply design (in support), with a reasonably heavy concentration in microprocessors.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 9:27 AM, Frank Mashockie wrote:
Thanks Harvey!
I really appreciate the feedback. The software is definitely my weakest point. I think it might be a good idea to start introducing myself to some of it. I've gotten familiar with programming development software to flash MCUs, but that is about it.
I love repair of PCBs. The problem solving and troubleshooting. Learning more about different types of circuits. With that, I think I'd like to get into PCB design. Definitely hardware related. But I guess I won't know for sure until I get into that degree - there's still so much I need/want to learn. I am also interested by power systems and the grid. I probably would have been a lineman if I wasn't afraid heights!
Sorry I don't mean to derail the thread, but I greatly appreciate the feedback!
-Frank

I had a wirewrapped Apple motherboard. I built a Heathkit H-something monitor and used that system for a couple of years. The Apple motherboard was wirewrapped as a sort of joke or something. I ended up with it because no one else wanted it.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)

==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 16:48, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Aha. No Amigas.

Clone apple ][ motherboards and clone IBM PCs until laptops somewhat took over.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 4:42 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
I had one for my Amiga.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)

==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 15:08, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?I never found any Modula-2 compilers. I looked at what was out there (circa 1980 or so) and I got what would work on a PC for free.

Strictly low budget (and still, in a way, am).

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 2:45 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal was originally intended to be a "teaching" language only and was never intended to be used commercially. Modula-2 was supposed to fix that.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 13:44, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Nope, Borland Pascal, then Delphi.

It is possible to break the linker in Borland Pascal.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 12:36 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal? Did you ever write code in Niklaus Wirth's Modula-2?

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 09:52, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?You're welcome. I can take a design from concept to hardware to pc board to build and then do the same for software. Limitations, of course.

I always encouraged my students to learn both hardware and software, even if they were not going to use it immediately (either!).

I have a program written in C++ (on the PC) that parses an EAGLE board file, then produces an OpenSCAD file (will need custom OpenSCAD parts) to model the board. Makes it useful for designing cases and assemblies as well as getting an idea of what fits where.

So current languages? embedded C, C++ for microprocessors, C++ for the PC, VHDL for FPGAs, OpenSCAD for 3D designs.

I have mostly dropped Delphi, which can be somewhat annoying to code in. Not a bad language (Pascal), but gives me no transportability to the microprocessor realm.

I do mostly digital and power supply design (in support), with a reasonably heavy concentration in microprocessors.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 9:27 AM, Frank Mashockie wrote:
Thanks Harvey!
I really appreciate the feedback. The software is definitely my weakest point. I think it might be a good idea to start introducing myself to some of it. I've gotten familiar with programming development software to flash MCUs, but that is about it.
I love repair of PCBs. The problem solving and troubleshooting. Learning more about different types of circuits. With that, I think I'd like to get into PCB design. Definitely hardware related. But I guess I won't know for sure until I get into that degree - there's still so much I need/want to learn. I am also interested by power systems and the grid. I probably would have been a lineman if I wasn't afraid heights!
Sorry I don't mean to derail the thread, but I greatly appreciate the feedback!
-Frank

On Sep 20, 2024, at 16:48, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Aha. No Amigas.

Clone apple ][ motherboards and clone IBM PCs until laptops somewhat took over.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 4:42 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
I had one for my Amiga.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)

==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 15:08, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?I never found any Modula-2 compilers. I looked at what was out there (circa 1980 or so) and I got what would work on a PC for free.

Strictly low budget (and still, in a way, am).

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 2:45 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal was originally intended to be a "teaching" language only and was never intended to be used commercially. Modula-2 was supposed to fix that.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 13:44, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Nope, Borland Pascal, then Delphi.

It is possible to break the linker in Borland Pascal.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 12:36 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal? Did you ever write code in Niklaus Wirth's Modula-2?

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 09:52, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?You're welcome. I can take a design from concept to hardware to pc board to build and then do the same for software. Limitations, of course.

I always encouraged my students to learn both hardware and software, even if they were not going to use it immediately (either!).

I have a program written in C++ (on the PC) that parses an EAGLE board file, then produces an OpenSCAD file (will need custom OpenSCAD parts) to model the board. Makes it useful for designing cases and assemblies as well as getting an idea of what fits where.

So current languages? embedded C, C++ for microprocessors, C++ for the PC, VHDL for FPGAs, OpenSCAD for 3D designs.

I have mostly dropped Delphi, which can be somewhat annoying to code in. Not a bad language (Pascal), but gives me no transportability to the microprocessor realm.

I do mostly digital and power supply design (in support), with a reasonably heavy concentration in microprocessors.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 9:27 AM, Frank Mashockie wrote:
Thanks Harvey!
I really appreciate the feedback. The software is definitely my weakest point. I think it might be a good idea to start introducing myself to some of it. I've gotten familiar with programming development software to flash MCUs, but that is about it.
I love repair of PCBs. The problem solving and troubleshooting. Learning more about different types of circuits. With that, I think I'd like to get into PCB design. Definitely hardware related. But I guess I won't know for sure until I get into that degree - there's still so much I need/want to learn. I am also interested by power systems and the grid. I probably would have been a lineman if I wasn't afraid heights!
Sorry I don't mean to derail the thread, but I greatly appreciate the feedback!
-Frank

I had one for my Amiga.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)

==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 15:08, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?I never found any Modula-2 compilers. I looked at what was out there (circa 1980 or so) and I got what would work on a PC for free.

Strictly low budget (and still, in a way, am).

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 2:45 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal was originally intended to be a "teaching" language only and was never intended to be used commercially. Modula-2 was supposed to fix that.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 13:44, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Nope, Borland Pascal, then Delphi.

It is possible to break the linker in Borland Pascal.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 12:36 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal? Did you ever write code in Niklaus Wirth's Modula-2?

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 09:52, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?You're welcome. I can take a design from concept to hardware to pc board to build and then do the same for software. Limitations, of course.

I always encouraged my students to learn both hardware and software, even if they were not going to use it immediately (either!).

I have a program written in C++ (on the PC) that parses an EAGLE board file, then produces an OpenSCAD file (will need custom OpenSCAD parts) to model the board. Makes it useful for designing cases and assemblies as well as getting an idea of what fits where.

So current languages? embedded C, C++ for microprocessors, C++ for the PC, VHDL for FPGAs, OpenSCAD for 3D designs.

I have mostly dropped Delphi, which can be somewhat annoying to code in. Not a bad language (Pascal), but gives me no transportability to the microprocessor realm.

I do mostly digital and power supply design (in support), with a reasonably heavy concentration in microprocessors.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 9:27 AM, Frank Mashockie wrote:
Thanks Harvey!
I really appreciate the feedback. The software is definitely my weakest point. I think it might be a good idea to start introducing myself to some of it. I've gotten familiar with programming development software to flash MCUs, but that is about it.
I love repair of PCBs. The problem solving and troubleshooting. Learning more about different types of circuits. With that, I think I'd like to get into PCB design. Definitely hardware related. But I guess I won't know for sure until I get into that degree - there's still so much I need/want to learn. I am also interested by power systems and the grid. I probably would have been a lineman if I wasn't afraid heights!
Sorry I don't mean to derail the thread, but I greatly appreciate the feedback!
-Frank

On Sep 20, 2024, at 15:08, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?I never found any Modula-2 compilers. I looked at what was out there (circa 1980 or so) and I got what would work on a PC for free.

Strictly low budget (and still, in a way, am).

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 2:45 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal was originally intended to be a "teaching" language only and was never intended to be used commercially. Modula-2 was supposed to fix that.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 13:44, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Nope, Borland Pascal, then Delphi.

It is possible to break the linker in Borland Pascal.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 12:36 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal? Did you ever write code in Niklaus Wirth's Modula-2?

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 09:52, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?You're welcome. I can take a design from concept to hardware to pc board to build and then do the same for software. Limitations, of course.

I always encouraged my students to learn both hardware and software, even if they were not going to use it immediately (either!).

I have a program written in C++ (on the PC) that parses an EAGLE board file, then produces an OpenSCAD file (will need custom OpenSCAD parts) to model the board. Makes it useful for designing cases and assemblies as well as getting an idea of what fits where.

So current languages? embedded C, C++ for microprocessors, C++ for the PC, VHDL for FPGAs, OpenSCAD for 3D designs.

I have mostly dropped Delphi, which can be somewhat annoying to code in. Not a bad language (Pascal), but gives me no transportability to the microprocessor realm.

I do mostly digital and power supply design (in support), with a reasonably heavy concentration in microprocessors.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 9:27 AM, Frank Mashockie wrote:
Thanks Harvey!
I really appreciate the feedback. The software is definitely my weakest point. I think it might be a good idea to start introducing myself to some of it. I've gotten familiar with programming development software to flash MCUs, but that is about it.
I love repair of PCBs. The problem solving and troubleshooting. Learning more about different types of circuits. With that, I think I'd like to get into PCB design. Definitely hardware related. But I guess I won't know for sure until I get into that degree - there's still so much I need/want to learn. I am also interested by power systems and the grid. I probably would have been a lineman if I wasn't afraid heights!
Sorry I don't mean to derail the thread, but I greatly appreciate the feedback!
-Frank

On Sep 20, 2024, at 15:06, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?and tests for null pointers.................

Write paranoid code.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 2:40 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Yeah, I got eventually.

As team lead, I was responsible for code releases. It amazed me how many null pointers existed in the code. Apparently I wasn't the only engineer who didn't understand pointers. For every malloc() there needs to be free().

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)

==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 13:43, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Pointers are relatively easy, if you can get the idea that it's a "look over here" kind of thing. Given that, you can say "look over here and get me what's there" and then "here" when something wants a "look over there". The syntax can be a bit, but the concepts, once understood, are straightforward enough.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 12:30 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
I have gvim on my Windows box and use it regularly to edit code (EZNEC, Octave and MatLab files, mostly). At first (1980s) I thought vi was primitive. But over the years I realized that it's portability makes it brilliant. At one time my job was to create a simulation of a large, complex, virtual IBM mainframe disk system. Often, when a user was running his/her code against the simulator and a problem arose it was a question of whether the user code or the simulator code was at fault. Being able to look at the logs and code instantly using vi was, I don't know, like drinking a glass of water. Second nature. The editing was a miniscule effort compared to trying to figure out what code was broken.

When using EMACS, I always had to think about what keys on the keyboard I needed to press to do something. Probably beccause I was never a really good software engineer. I understood electrons, but not C pointers.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)

==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 09:25, n4buq via groups.io <n4buq@...> wrote:

?When I left the world of UNIX (actually "CLIX" for our product), I travelled to the dark side and use notepad, etc., now. I do miss the vi days. So much one can do without ever taking one's hands off of the keyboard.

Barry - N4BUQ

Was, but no longer?

Though the "editor wars" are fun, I actually use both vi and emacs
regularly. I'm going to make a quick edit /etc/resolv.conf, I use vi.
If I'm sitting down for a ten-hour coding session, I use emacs.

-Dave

On 9/20/24 08:26, n4buq wrote:
I was a vi man myself.

Barry - N4BUQ

'Twas a joke. But emacs has to be one of the most widely-ported pieces of
software in history.

-Dave

On September 19, 2024 8:23:47 PM "Harvey White" <madyn@...> wrote:

Never used it, so... wasn't available for what I was doing.

Harvey


On 9/19/2024 7:57 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:

Emacs!

On 9/19/24 19:53, Harvey White wrote:

Unless you like VHDL...... <grin>

Harvey


On 9/19/2024 5:29 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:

Add in SystemVerilog if one is contemplating FPGA/ASIC work.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick
Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 19, 2024, at 16:03, Roy Thistle via groups.io
<roy.thistle@...> wrote:

?
On Thu, Sep 19, 2024 at 09:11 AM, Frank Mashockie wrote:

I've been considering going into an online master's program for
EE.

If your boss is not paying for it... It's expensive.
2 to 3 years to complete, on average.
Say 50,000USD total cost, on average... and up... for many good US
schools.
Georgia Tech is... about the lowest cost... 10,000USD total cost.
Everyone is different... but IMO... the average person... depending
on which specialty they want... needs to have a strong background in
calculus... as in vector, complex, and differential equations...
linear algebra... numerical methods... statistics.
Computer science skills are required too.
Programming in Python or C
Simulations in software packages like Pspice
HDL like Verilog, or VHDL
Not to mention a strong background in
circuit analysis
devices
probably other stuff I forgot too.

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

Pascal was originally intended to be a "teaching" language only and was never intended to be used commercially. Modula-2 was supposed to fix that.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 13:44, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Nope, Borland Pascal, then Delphi.

It is possible to break the linker in Borland Pascal.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 12:36 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Pascal? Did you ever write code in Niklaus Wirth's Modula-2?

DaveD
KC0WJN

Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Sep 20, 2024, at 09:52, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?You're welcome. I can take a design from concept to hardware to pc board to build and then do the same for software. Limitations, of course.

I always encouraged my students to learn both hardware and software, even if they were not going to use it immediately (either!).

I have a program written in C++ (on the PC) that parses an EAGLE board file, then produces an OpenSCAD file (will need custom OpenSCAD parts) to model the board. Makes it useful for designing cases and assemblies as well as getting an idea of what fits where.

So current languages? embedded C, C++ for microprocessors, C++ for the PC, VHDL for FPGAs, OpenSCAD for 3D designs.

I have mostly dropped Delphi, which can be somewhat annoying to code in. Not a bad language (Pascal), but gives me no transportability to the microprocessor realm.

I do mostly digital and power supply design (in support), with a reasonably heavy concentration in microprocessors.

Harvey

On 9/20/2024 9:27 AM, Frank Mashockie wrote:
Thanks Harvey!
I really appreciate the feedback. The software is definitely my weakest point. I think it might be a good idea to start introducing myself to some of it. I've gotten familiar with programming development software to flash MCUs, but that is about it.
I love repair of PCBs. The problem solving and troubleshooting. Learning more about different types of circuits. With that, I think I'd like to get into PCB design. Definitely hardware related. But I guess I won't know for sure until I get into that degree - there's still so much I need/want to learn. I am also interested by power systems and the grid. I probably would have been a lineman if I wasn't afraid heights!
Sorry I don't mean to derail the thread, but I greatly appreciate the feedback!
-Frank