On 9/20/24 11:39, Dave_G0WBX via groups.io wrote: Crikey!
Mentions of Data General Nova computers!
I was wrangling them (Nova 3's and 4's) back in the early 80's where they were used to run GCMS chemical analysis machines assembled where I worked.
Memories of booting the 3's with the front panel switches, and some "fat finger" entered binary code via those console switches to "test" defective I/O boards on extenders, using a simple logic probe (two lights type!)
And some software that played tunes on a Tektronix 4010 terminal! We have Novas at LSSM as well, 1200s, 3s, and 4s, though they're not (yet) functional. And a Tek 4014 (large CRT version), very nearly functional but still has some issues. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
On 9/20/24 12:30, Dave Daniel wrote: I have gvim on my Windows box and use it regularly to edit code (EZNEC, Octave and MatLab files, mostly). At first (1980s) I thought vi was primitive. But over the years I realized that it's portability makes it brilliant. At one time my job was to create a simulation of a large, complex, virtual IBM mainframe disk system. Often, when a user was running his/her code against the simulator and a problem arose it was a question of whether the user code or the simulator code was at fault. Being able to look at the logs and code instantly using vi was, I don't know, like drinking a glass of water. Second nature. The editing was a miniscule effort compared to trying to figure out what code was broken.
When using EMACS, I always had to think about what keys on the keyboard I needed to press to do something. Probably beccause I was never a really good software engineer. I understood electrons, but not C pointers. Like anything else it becomes second nature with time. I use emacs every day, and I've done so for about forty years, but it's nearly all "muscle memory". I can do almost anything in emacs, but I can't expain how! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Pascal? Did you ever write code in Niklaus Wirth's Modula-2?
DaveD
KC0WJN
Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================
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On Sep 20, 2024, at 09:52, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:
?You're welcome. I can take a design from concept to hardware to pc board to build and then do the same for software. Limitations, of course.
I always encouraged my students to learn both hardware and software, even if they were not going to use it immediately (either!).
I have a program written in C++ (on the PC) that parses an EAGLE board file, then produces an OpenSCAD file (will need custom OpenSCAD parts) to model the board. Makes it useful for designing cases and assemblies as well as getting an idea of what fits where.
So current languages? embedded C, C++ for microprocessors, C++ for the PC, VHDL for FPGAs, OpenSCAD for 3D designs.
I have mostly dropped Delphi, which can be somewhat annoying to code in. Not a bad language (Pascal), but gives me no transportability to the microprocessor realm.
I do mostly digital and power supply design (in support), with a reasonably heavy concentration in microprocessors.
Harvey
On 9/20/2024 9:27 AM, Frank Mashockie wrote:
Thanks Harvey!
I really appreciate the feedback. The software is definitely my weakest point. I think it might be a good idea to start introducing myself to some of it. I've gotten familiar with programming development software to flash MCUs, but that is about it.
I love repair of PCBs. The problem solving and troubleshooting. Learning more about different types of circuits. With that, I think I'd like to get into PCB design. Definitely hardware related. But I guess I won't know for sure until I get into that degree - there's still so much I need/want to learn. I am also interested by power systems and the grid. I probably would have been a lineman if I wasn't afraid heights!
Sorry I don't mean to derail the thread, but I greatly appreciate the feedback!
-Frank
|
I have gvim on my Windows box and use it regularly to edit code (EZNEC, Octave and MatLab files, mostly). At first (1980s) I thought vi was primitive. But over the years I realized that it's portability makes it brilliant. At one time my job was to create a simulation of a large, complex, virtual IBM mainframe disk system. Often, when a user was running his/her code against the simulator and a problem arose it was a question of whether the user code or the simulator code was at fault. Being able to look at the logs and code instantly using vi was, I don't know, like drinking a glass of water. Second nature. The editing was a miniscule effort compared to trying to figure out what code was broken.
When using EMACS, I always had to think about what keys on the keyboard I needed to press to do something. Probably beccause I was never a really good software engineer. I understood electrons, but not C pointers.
DaveD
KC0WJN
Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================
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Show quoted text
On Sep 20, 2024, at 09:25, n4buq via groups.io <n4buq@...> wrote:
?When I left the world of UNIX (actually "CLIX" for our product), I travelled to the dark side and use notepad, etc., now. I do miss the vi days. So much one can do without ever taking one's hands off of the keyboard.
Barry - N4BUQ
Was, but no longer?
Though the "editor wars" are fun, I actually use both vi and emacs
regularly. I'm going to make a quick edit /etc/resolv.conf, I use vi.
If I'm sitting down for a ten-hour coding session, I use emacs.
-Dave
On 9/20/24 08:26, n4buq wrote:
I was a vi man myself.
Barry - N4BUQ
'Twas a joke. But emacs has to be one of the most widely-ported pieces of
software in history.
-Dave
On September 19, 2024 8:23:47 PM "Harvey White" <madyn@...> wrote:
Never used it, so... wasn't available for what I was doing.
Harvey
On 9/19/2024 7:57 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
Emacs!
On 9/19/24 19:53, Harvey White wrote:
Unless you like VHDL...... <grin>
Harvey
On 9/19/2024 5:29 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Add in SystemVerilog if one is contemplating FPGA/ASIC work.
DaveD
KC0WJN
Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick
Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================
On Sep 19, 2024, at 16:03, Roy Thistle via groups.io
<roy.thistle@...> wrote:
?
On Thu, Sep 19, 2024 at 09:11 AM, Frank Mashockie wrote:
I've been considering going into an online master's program for
EE.
If your boss is not paying for it... It's expensive.
2 to 3 years to complete, on average.
Say 50,000USD total cost, on average... and up... for many good US
schools.
Georgia Tech is... about the lowest cost... 10,000USD total cost.
Everyone is different... but IMO... the average person... depending
on which specialty they want... needs to have a strong background in
calculus... as in vector, complex, and differential equations...
linear algebra... numerical methods... statistics.
Computer science skills are required too.
Programming in Python or C
Simulations in software packages like Pspice
HDL like Verilog, or VHDL
Not to mention a strong background in
circuit analysis
devices
probably other stuff I forgot too.
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: HP 141T Power Supply Help Needed
CONV mode is the only functional mode, i get blooming at almost any intensity / persistence setting in storage mode unless its so low its basically OFF.? ? ? ??
Beware of using the 141T in "Conv" mode, you cannot see if the intensity is set too high & causing damaging the storage mesh. You need to start with it in storage mode and turn intensity down to stop the blooming, then switch to "Conv", if there is any blooming, the intensity is set too high, do not increase the intensity once in "Conv" mode.
?
Attached are the numerous warnings in the 1973 manual and the label that is attached to the cover of my 141T.
?
David
|
Re: Probe Cables for 16801A Logic Analyser
Yes, 16715-61601 is correct.? It's also listed in the 16800 Series Service Guide.
?
The one William linked to on ebay is the right one.? The cables don't have that part number on them, so you have to? usually poke around for "(HP,Agilent) logic analyzer cable" or similar search term.? If you're patient, you can find them for less than that.
?
The 16801A only needs one cable, according to the spec sheet (34 channels).
?
You will also need pods (flying leads or other probe terminations) for it, of the 40-pin variety.
?
-mark
?
?
?
On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 11:42 AM, <richard@...> wrote:
The acquisition card is a 32 channel 16912 so I think I need a 16715-61601 cable with a 60 pin connector one end to 2 off 40 pin connectors
|
Re: HP 141T Power Supply Help Needed
Beware of using the 141T in "Conv" mode, you cannot see if the intensity is set too high & causing damaging the storage mesh. You need to start with it in storage mode and turn intensity down to stop the blooming, then switch to "Conv", if there is any blooming, the intensity is set too high, do not increase the intensity once in "Conv" mode.
?
Attached are the numerous warnings in the 1973 manual and the label that is attached to the cover of my 141T.
?
David
|
10 MB drives the size of small washing machines, 2MB slide in cartridges that everyone had.? Set 22 (in octal) on the front panel switches to make it boot from the hard drive.
Someone reworked the DG assembler (nova 1200 and later Eclipse) to assemble 6502 (modified instructions, LDA,yes ldax, yes, LDADY (load A indirect through Y register (addr + Y), and LDAXD which was load Adr indexed by X, then do indirect).? That kind of thing.
Did wonders for homebuilt systems.? Program the EPROMS at work over lunch and take them home to debug.
Harvey
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On 9/20/2024 11:39 AM, Dave_G0WBX via groups.io wrote: Crikey!
Mentions of Data General Nova computers!
I was wrangling them (Nova 3's and 4's) back in the early 80's where they were used to run GCMS chemical analysis machines assembled where I worked.
Memories of booting the 3's with the front panel switches, and some "fat finger" entered binary code via those console switches to "test" defective I/O boards on extenders, using a simple logic probe (two lights type!)
And some software that played tunes on a Tektronix 4010 terminal!
Thanks for the surprise burst of memories!
Dave 'KBV.
|
pico? Do tell.
DaveD
KC0WJN
Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================
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Show quoted text
On Sep 20, 2024, at 09:07, David Holland via groups.io <david.w.holland@...> wrote:
?You forgot one:
If I want to cause a production outage, I use pico...
(yes, that actually happened somewhere....)
On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 8:53?AM Dave McGuire via groups.io
<mcguire@...> wrote:
Was, but no longer?
Though the "editor wars" are fun, I actually use both vi and emacs
regularly. I'm going to make a quick edit /etc/resolv.conf, I use vi.
If I'm sitting down for a ten-hour coding session, I use emacs.
-Dave
On 9/20/24 08:26, n4buq wrote:
I was a vi man myself.
Barry - N4BUQ
'Twas a joke. But emacs has to be one of the most widely-ported pieces of
software in history.
-Dave
On September 19, 2024 8:23:47 PM "Harvey White" <madyn@...> wrote:
Never used it, so... wasn't available for what I was doing.
Harvey
On 9/19/2024 7:57 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
Emacs!
On 9/19/24 19:53, Harvey White wrote:
Unless you like VHDL...... <grin>
Harvey
On 9/19/2024 5:29 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Add in SystemVerilog if one is contemplating FPGA/ASIC work.
DaveD
KC0WJN
Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick
Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================
On Sep 19, 2024, at 16:03, Roy Thistle via groups.io
<roy.thistle@...> wrote:
?
On Thu, Sep 19, 2024 at 09:11 AM, Frank Mashockie wrote:
I've been considering going into an online master's program for
EE.
If your boss is not paying for it... It's expensive.
2 to 3 years to complete, on average.
Say 50,000USD total cost, on average... and up... for many good US
schools.
Georgia Tech is... about the lowest cost... 10,000USD total cost.
Everyone is different... but IMO... the average person... depending
on which specialty they want... needs to have a strong background in
calculus... as in vector, complex, and differential equations...
linear algebra... numerical methods... statistics.
Computer science skills are required too.
Programming in Python or C
Simulations in software packages like Pspice
HDL like Verilog, or VHDL
Not to mention a strong background in
circuit analysis
devices
probably other stuff I forgot too.
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Thank you Jeff! This thread has been fantastic.? Some of it went over my head, but all of you are valuable resources for someone like me trying to dive further into this field.? Getting into electronics and my current job was the first time I felt I truly found a passion.? Something I could make a career out of.? What excites me even more is that I am only at the tip of the iceberg.? There's so much more for me to learn, which is some ways is daunting, but at the same time energizes me.??
?
I know this forum is geared specifically towards HP gear, but considering that so many of you have such a wealth of experience and knowledge, is there another forum that would be more acceptable to ask similar questions about transitioning industries (to EE) and gaining more education/experience (also how to market yourself, resume building, etc).? Just more questions a novice like me might have?? I'm sure I'll have more questions as I move forward.
?
Thanks!
?
-Frank
?
|
On 9/20/24 11:52, Dave Daniel wrote: PDP-7s , actually. Was there an emacs implementation on the PDP-7? Its early history is a bit murky, but I was pretty sure it first existed on a PDP-10 as a set of macros for TECO. I remember DEC minicomputers (7s, 8s, 10s, 11s, VAX, RSX11M, RSTS/E, RT-11) with great affection. I used to moonlight in the early 1980s with another guy from FIT to setup DEC systems at night. It was great fun. At Dictaphone, we bought two PDP-1132s . Upon delivery, one of them fell headlong off of the delivery truck. Smash. Ever seen a grown software engineer cry? Those were good days. There was no PDP-11/32, you must mean /34 or /23. But yeah that sounds very sad indeed. We have multiple of all of the above except for a PDP-7, up and running with every OS that you remember, at LSSM. You should visit. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
"ESC is your friend". :)
DaveD
KC0WJN
Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sep 20, 2024, at 08:26, n4buq via groups.io <n4buq@...> wrote:
?I was a vi man myself.
Barry - N4BUQ
'Twas a joke. But emacs has to be one of the most widely-ported pieces of
software in history.
-Dave
On September 19, 2024 8:23:47 PM "Harvey White" <madyn@...> wrote:
Never used it, so... wasn't available for what I was doing.
Harvey
On 9/19/2024 7:57 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
Emacs!
On 9/19/24 19:53, Harvey White wrote:
Unless you like VHDL...... <grin>
Harvey
On 9/19/2024 5:29 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Add in SystemVerilog if one is contemplating FPGA/ASIC work.
DaveD
KC0WJN
Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick
Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================
On Sep 19, 2024, at 16:03, Roy Thistle via groups.io
<roy.thistle@...> wrote:
?
On Thu, Sep 19, 2024 at 09:11 AM, Frank Mashockie wrote:
I've been considering going into an online master's program for
EE.
If your boss is not paying for it... It's expensive.
2 to 3 years to complete, on average.
Say 50,000USD total cost, on average... and up... for many good US
schools.
Georgia Tech is... about the lowest cost... 10,000USD total cost.
Everyone is different... but IMO... the average person... depending
on which specialty they want... needs to have a strong background in
calculus... as in vector, complex, and differential equations...
linear algebra... numerical methods... statistics.
Computer science skills are required too.
Programming in Python or C
Simulations in software packages like Pspice
HDL like Verilog, or VHDL
Not to mention a strong background in
circuit analysis
devices
probably other stuff I forgot too.
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
PDP-7s , actually. I remember DEC minicomputers (7s, 8s, 10s, 11s, VAX, RSX11M, RSTS/E, RT-11) with great affection. I used to moonlight in the early 1980s with another guy from FIT to setup DEC systems at night. It was great fun. At Dictaphone, we bought two PDP-1132s . Upon delivery, one of them fell headlong off of the delivery truck. Smash. Ever seen a grown software engineer cry? Those were good days.
DaveD
KC0WJN
Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sep 19, 2024, at 22:11, Dave McGuire via groups.io <mcguire@...> wrote:
?On 9/19/24 21:59, Harvey White wrote:
With the Linux heritage, IIRC. Oh good heavens no; emacs is way older than that, and it did not originate in the UNIX world. It dates back to the mid-1970s, on DEC PDP-10s.
It has been ported to, or implemented on, every interactive OS on every platform that I can think of, including every functional implementation of UNIX.
I did (and do) a lot of IDEs, unlike people who have a separate editor, separate compiler, and a makefile (I did something like that on a DG Nova computer, it's what the company had.) I don't use IDEs as most people think of them. But when developing software (mostly firmware), I never have to leave the emacs window(s). Editing, compiling, target programming. That by definition is an "IDE", but it's not what most people think of when they say "IDE".
So I know of it, but never used it in its native form. Perhaps some other editors were derived from it, but what I did? Not that I'd know of. You'd know. ;) Dozens of editors were derived from it, some free, some commercial. But you'd definitely know.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
On 9/20/24 11:39, Dave Daniel wrote: No joke to die-hard EMACS afficionados. I remember very acrimonious discussions.
This was in the early 90s.
Over an editor? Give me a break... It is rather silly. Unless the user is using Pico, of course. ;) But when one spends all day using it, and sometimes all night too, well.. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Re: Probe Cables for 16801A Logic Analyser
The acquisition card is a 32 channel 16912 so I think I need a 16715-61601 cable with a 60 pin connector one end to 2 off 40 pin connectors
|
Crikey!
Mentions of Data General Nova computers!
I was wrangling them (Nova 3's and 4's) back in the early 80's where they were used to run GCMS chemical analysis machines assembled where I worked.
Memories of booting the 3's with the front panel switches, and some "fat finger" entered binary code via those console switches to "test" defective I/O boards on extenders, using a simple logic probe (two lights type!)
And some software that played tunes on a Tektronix 4010 terminal!
Thanks for the surprise burst of memories!
Dave 'KBV.
--
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using open source software:
|
No joke to die-hard EMACS afficionados. I remember very acrimonious discussions.
This was in the early 90s.
Over an editor? Give me a break...
DaveD
KC0WJN
Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sep 19, 2024, at 21:41, Dave McGuire via groups.io <mcguire@...> wrote:
?
'Twas a joke. But emacs has to be one of the most widely-ported pieces of software in history.
-Dave
On September 19, 2024 8:23:47 PM "Harvey White" <madyn@...> wrote:
Never used it, so... wasn't available for what I was doing.
Harvey
On 9/19/2024 7:57 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
Emacs!
On 9/19/24 19:53, Harvey White wrote:
Unless you like VHDL...... <grin>
Harvey
On 9/19/2024 5:29 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Add in SystemVerilog if one is contemplating FPGA/ASIC work.
DaveD
KC0WJN
Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick
Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================
On Sep 19, 2024, at 16:03, Roy Thistle via groups.io
<roy.thistle@...> wrote:
?
On Thu, Sep 19, 2024 at 09:11 AM, Frank Mashockie wrote:
I've been considering going into an online master's program for
EE.
If your boss is not paying for it... It's expensive.
2 to 3 years to complete, on average.
Say 50,000USD total cost, on average... and up... for many good US
schools.
Georgia Tech is... about the lowest cost... 10,000USD total cost.
Everyone is different... but IMO... the average person... depending
on which specialty they want... needs to have a strong background in
calculus... as in vector, complex, and differential equations...
linear algebra... numerical methods... statistics.
Computer science skills are required too.
Programming in Python or C
Simulations in software packages like Pspice
HDL like Verilog, or VHDL
Not to mention a strong background in
circuit analysis
devices
probably other stuff I forgot too.
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 06:52 AM, Harvey White wrote:
I always encouraged my students to learn both hardware and software, even if they were not going to use it immediately (either!).
I concur.? The more engineering skills you have, the more valuable you will be.? Overspecialization could be a problem in the sense that if you are laid off it might be harder to find a new job.?
?
Personally, all my FPGA work was in Verilog, not VHDL.? But if you know one of them, I'm sure you'd be able to pick up the other.
?
I'd add Python and perhaps MATLAB to Harvey's list.? The former to write programs to drive GPIB instruments, the latter for analysis, although you can also control instruments using MATLAB.? And don't worry too much about learning software -- you'll be surprised at how easy it is.? Dip your toe into it by taking one of the MOOC (massive open on-line course).? ?I did this years ago, pre-Covid, with a course on Python taught by a prof at Vanderbilt University, via Coursera.? In fact I talked my wife into taking the course, too.? (She is a retired high-school math teacher who had zero programming knowledge).
?
Your experience debugging boards is invaluable -- I've always thought engineers fresh out of school should spend their first six months helping the manufacturing line, fixing 'dog' boards, etc.? One quickly learns the value of clear documentation as well as the types of issues that arise in manufacturing from a poor design.
?
The advantage of a college education is that you learn various topics in a logical progression -- that is, you create a foundation of knowledge and build upon it, layer by layer.? Whereas learning topics piece-meal, unstructured, can leave voids that, if you had had that knowledge, it might have made things easier or clearer.
?
- Jeff, k6jca
?
?
|
Eeek! I used EMACS until I realized that vi was always available on any UNIX system (vi, vim, gvim, etc.) and I kept getting "assigned" sysadmin duties on every friggin UNIX-like system STK Printer Ops acquired, and needed an editor upon which I could always rely. I still have that yellow comb-bound EMACS book somewhere. Using EMACS gave me my first exposure to the Gnu Public License. Dang. For an EE/Physics major, entering into the UNIX/HPUX/VMS/SunOS/Solaris world where people actually *argued* about using EMACS or vi or ed was kind of like entering Oz. I scurried back to my electrons and holes as quickly as I was able. LOL.
DaveD
KC0WJN
Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sep 19, 2024, at 19:57, Dave McGuire via groups.io <mcguire@...> wrote:
?
Emacs!
On 9/19/24 19:53, Harvey White wrote:
Unless you like VHDL...... <grin>
Harvey
On 9/19/2024 5:29 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Add in SystemVerilog if one is contemplating FPGA/ASIC work.
DaveD
KC0WJN
Thanks for all the fish.
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================
On Sep 19, 2024, at 16:03, Roy Thistle via groups.io <roy.thistle@...> wrote:
?
On Thu, Sep 19, 2024 at 09:11 AM, Frank Mashockie wrote:
I've been considering going into an online master's program for EE.
If your boss is not paying for it... It's expensive.
2 to 3 years to complete, on average.
Say 50,000USD total cost, on average... and up... for many good US schools.
Georgia Tech is... about the lowest cost... 10,000USD total cost.
Everyone is different... but IMO... the average person... depending on which specialty they want... needs to have a strong background in
calculus... as in vector, complex, and differential equations... linear algebra... numerical methods... statistics.
Computer science skills are required too.
Programming in Python or C
Simulations in software packages like Pspice
HDL like Verilog, or VHDL
Not to mention a strong background in
circuit analysis
devices
probably other stuff I forgot too.
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Hi Mike
?
I just sent you a long email response to what shows as your comcast email but it immediately bounced back. I tried a second time so I hope it gets through.
?
Jim
|
Dave McGuire
factory
Frank Mashockie