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Date
Re: Attenuator "O" Rings

 

McMaster doesn’t have quite the correct combination of size. You can get the exact size from Precison Associates or Apple Rubber.

The nominal size is 1mm ID cross section 0.6mm, BunaN medium hardness (70A durometer) - credit to Don Bitters for sharing the specifications numerous times.
Re: Attenuator "O" Rings

 


McMaster-Carr is also my normal go-to for quality O-rings. I checked there, but they don't go as small as the 1 mm ID/2 mm OD that others called out.?

They do,?at least on the ID side. The smallest size on those McMaster-Carr o-rings is about .075mm ID, and the next one up is 1mm ID. ODs start a little larger?than 2mm. This is round rubber, it may not be extremely important for the OD to be exact to fractions of a mm.?
?
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Re: 85097A VNA ECal controller replacement

 

开云体育

Hi
I'm interested in your E-cal controller as well, for the hp 8510C that I have as well too. I think it would be a popular option for a few of us.
I also believe it would be a popular replacement for the old hp controller that some may have as well due to the age and slowness of the controller. Please keep us up to date. I would be even interested in it more if you had it as a kit or completed device, as I'm time poor.
Thanks
James

James Goodwin

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Razvan Popescu via groups.io <yo8ryr@...>
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2024 6:32:35 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 85097A VNA ECal controller replacement
?
Hi,

Interesting project. I am interested to use it with an 8510C.

Please post updates.

Thanks,
Razvan

On 06/05/2024 05:14, bagojfalvibagoj via groups.io wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I made some good progress with the ECal controller replacement. It's
> effectively an 85097A but with opensource software using scikit-rf.
> If you're into python you can check out the code on github:
> OwlvilleWol/VnaCalWizard (github.com)
> <>
>
> I plan to post my hardware implementation too, but I have to work on the
> docs and I'm not overly happy with it anyway.
>
> image.png (1136×852) (ibb.co) <>
> image.png (639×852) (ibb.co) <>
>
> I wanted to be smart and use an Ftdi usb device instead of an arduino to
> avoid having to maintain two sets of code, but I regret it now as the
> solution is not as elegant as I hoped for and the port direction changes
> of the Ftdi chip make EEPROM readouts very slow.
> The program is written so that that has to be done only once though,
> then, if present, standards data are loaded from touchstone files on
> disc. (This could be a way to re-characterize the ECal devices without
> having to write data back to them.)
>
> I can cal my 8720C with it, although the top-level functions are still
> missing. I'll be finishing that and add a few features such as multiple
> ECal units covering the frequency range and pre-characterized adapter
> (gender changer) removal.
> My python is not very good so it's rough around the edges, but I tried
> to separate functional blocks for easy additions/modification/reuse.
> E.g. the ECal class has a separate hardware abstraction layer so the
> Ftdi based interface could be easily replaced with something else, while
> keeping everything above intact.
>
> Let me know if you're interested in replicating and
> testing/using/improving this.
>
>





Re: HP 400H AC VTVM Difficulties

 

Some pictures of mine, first is a later 400D from the Bedford factory (E310 prefix) and the second is a older 400H (sn 1621), the older one has a capacitive attenuator, with a selection of knackered bumble bee paper caps, not the worst I've seen.

David

DSC02938 400D.jpg
SAM_2000a.jpg
SAM_1998a 400H.jpg

Re: simplified 1GC1-4210 replacement for ESA E44xx LO unlock

 

Thanks, it's working now.

On 06/05/2024 02:06, fenugrec via groups.io wrote:
When I click on the link I get Error 404 for the 7Zip file.


Oops, looks like I messed up a link ref. Should be fixed now.

I also finally got around to piecing together bits of video detailing
the repair,

Re: 85097A VNA ECal controller replacement

 

Hi,

Interesting project. I am interested to use it with an 8510C.

Please post updates.

Thanks,
Razvan

On 06/05/2024 05:14, bagojfalvibagoj via groups.io wrote:
Hi All,

I made some good progress with the ECal controller replacement. It's
effectively an 85097A but with opensource software using scikit-rf.
If you're into python you can check out the code on github:
OwlvilleWol/VnaCalWizard (github.com)
<>

I plan to post my hardware implementation too, but I have to work on the
docs and I'm not overly happy with it anyway.

image.png (1136×852) (ibb.co) <>
image.png (639×852) (ibb.co) <>

I wanted to be smart and use an Ftdi usb device instead of an arduino to
avoid having to maintain two sets of code, but I regret it now as the
solution is not as elegant as I hoped for and the port direction changes
of the Ftdi chip make EEPROM readouts very slow.
The program is written so that that has to be done only once though,
then, if present, standards data are loaded from touchstone files on
disc. (This could be a way to re-characterize the ECal devices without
having to write data back to them.)

I can cal my 8720C with it, although the top-level functions are still
missing. I'll be finishing that and add a few features such as multiple
ECal units covering the frequency range and pre-characterized adapter
(gender changer) removal.
My python is not very good so it's rough around the edges, but I tried
to separate functional blocks for easy additions/modification/reuse.
E.g. the ECal class has a separate hardware abstraction layer so the
Ftdi based interface could be easily replaced with something else, while
keeping everything above intact.

Let me know if you're interested in replicating and
testing/using/improving this.
Re: Another 3GHz 53132-68003 Chanel 3 option design for the 53131A and 53132A

 

Hello Yves,

I was thinking the same that something is not right in the firmware.
I found the same thread on EEVblog late last night. For me it is more
work to be done since my 53181A and 53132A both have no option so I need
to maybe install the zero ohm R334 resistor and also the U14 socket.

When I will have time I will open my counters and check the motherboards
first.

Would be great news if you can confirm this info and the cloned 12.4GHz
work by default without any scale adjustment.

There is also an 18GHz version from the same seller on eBay and I wonder
that one how it would work since HP never had 18GHz version released.
They say you need the 3GHz option already installed and working and
after that you need to set scale to 4.0 to have the 18GHz option working
correctly. Maybe the hex values modification in firmware tells it what
divider or IF to use so maybe other values (or the same values as 12GHz)
will make it working fine without scale adjustment.

Thanks,
Razvan

On 05/05/2024 23:32, Yves Tardif via groups.io wrote:
Hi Razvan,

I have option 124 on my hp53132A and it's a clone bought on eBay.
The scale used is 4, because by default, the internal divider is positioned
for a 030 or 3GHz option.

But I found on the EEVblog site, it seems to me, the following file
concerning the activation of the correct divider depending on the option.
I'll try this approach when I have some free time.


Yves

-----Message d'origine-----
De?: [email protected]
<[email protected]> De la part de Razvan Popescu via
groups.io
Envoyé?: 5 mai 2024 16:58
??: [email protected]
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Another 3GHz 53132-68003 Chanel
3 option design for the 53131A and 53132A

Hello Ed,

I saw how the 3GHz board works regarding the divider but I didn't see any
original board more than 3GHz.

I didn't buy any cloned boards because I saw you need to use the math
function scale set to 4.0. I think they do divide by 128 also for the 12GHz
board but they should do probably divide by 512.

How is the original 12Ghz prescaler board working in regards to the divider?

I got the PCBs for the 3GHz version but I didn't order the parts to build
them. I will install the 3GHz prescaler first until I find a prescaler that
doesn't need the scale set to 4.

Razvan


On 04/05/2024 13:22, Ed (scskits) via groups.io wrote:
Razvan:

The 3GHz board is a divide by 128, with a max output of 23.4375MHz at
3GHz.
That has to get to the main board through the ribbon cable, not the
best way to connect.
At 12GHz the output would be almost 100MHz so I think that the higher
frequency option boards likely have an additional divider to keep the
output at a reasonable frequency.

There are two pins (CH3CODE0 and CH3CODE1) on the connector that are
used to tell the main board that one of the options is installed.

I would think that a combination of those pins would select one of the
three options or no option.

I will try to see what effect they have later this weekend.

ed
85097A VNA ECal controller replacement

 

Hi All,

I made some good progress with the ECal controller replacement. It's effectively an 85097A but with opensource software using scikit-rf.
If you're into python you can check out the code on github:

I plan to post my hardware implementation too, but I have to work on the docs and I'm not overly happy with it anyway.?


I wanted to be smart and use an Ftdi usb device instead of an arduino to avoid having to maintain two sets of code, but I regret it now as the solution is not as elegant as I hoped for and the port direction changes of the Ftdi chip make EEPROM readouts very slow.
The program is written so that that has to be done only once though, then, if present, standards data are loaded from touchstone files on disc. (This could be a way to re-characterize the ECal devices without having to write data back to them.)

I can cal my 8720C with it, although the top-level functions are still missing. I'll be finishing that and add a few features such as multiple ECal units covering the frequency range and pre-characterized adapter (gender changer) removal.
My python is not very good so it's rough around the edges, but I tried to separate functional blocks for easy additions/modification/reuse. E.g. the ECal class has a separate hardware abstraction layer so the Ftdi based interface could be easily replaced with something else, while keeping everything above intact.

Let me know if you're interested in replicating and testing/using/improving this.
Rise times

 

I just received that Leo Bodnar fast risetime test unit and tried it with my two fastest scopes, a HP 54542A digital and a Tektronix R7103 analog with intensifier CRT.? Screen shots below.

According to the old rule of thumb, for an analog scope BW * risetime = 0.35 and 0.45 for digital scopes.

The 54542A is spec'd as a 500 MHz scope.? According to the old rule of thumb then, the apparent BW of the 54542A is around 725 MHz.

The R7103 has a 1 GHz BW spec so based on the rule of thumb it comes in right at 1 GHz.

Just playing around.

Has anyone else done this and has some numbers?

Peter

54542A risetime.jpg
R7103 risetime.jpg

Re: HP 400H AC VTVM Difficulties

 

开云体育

I know the manual you are using, Kenneth Kuhn's museum site hosts it at ?.? You also need Service Note 400D-2C, attached here and hosted at ?.? In a 400H of your serial number, HP may have used an earlier style of 1000x range attenuator; the Service Note calls it the "capacitive" attenuator.? Troubleshooting and calibration is different from the later "resistive" attenuator which is what we would call a normal "compensated" attenuator.? The Service Note has instructions for determining which kind of attenuator you have, although you can also just take off the shield and trace out the circuit.? Look at the paragraphs headed "INPUT DIVIDER CIRCUIT IDENTIFICATION".? The key is the bottom end of 10 Meg resistor R4.? If it goes straight to the bottom of trimmer cap C4, it's the "resistive" attenuator; if there's a 10K resistor between those points, it's the "capacitive" divider and the special procedures apply.

Also look at the cathode resistors on V3, V4, and V5.? 120R is the oldest EC level, 100R is newer and allows a simplified LF calibration.? I bet you're 120R.

HTH,
Dave Wise


From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of JThorusen <jthorusen@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2024 2:23 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 400H AC VTVM Difficulties
?
Thank You gentlemen for your responses.?? I should have thought to include the instrument serial numbers because I had trouble finding a matching manual on the internet.... but I dropped the ball.?? I will therefore remedy this immediately.

The failed instrument is serial number 5025.
The good instrument is serial number 4939.

The scope that I am using is a Tektronix 465B with 100 MHz bandwidth.?? I also have a 200 MHz bandwidth digital scope should it be necessary to have the extra bandwidth or in case it is desirable to post waveform captures.

The manual I'm using is entitled "400D/H?? Vacuum Tube Voltmeter".?? The frontispiece shows two photos of the instrument with captions describing the models covered as the Model 400D, serial 17971 and above and the Model 400H, serial 2238 and above.?? The manual has a copyright date of 1955 and a publication number of 400DH001-1.

I will have to order some capacitors as I don't think I have enough of the correct values in stock.?? With the Group's permission, I will post additional results as I get them.

I have saved Dave Wise's text document and will read it over for additional information as soon as practical.

Thanks again,
--
Jim Thorusen
KB6GM

HP-Service-Note-400D-2C.pdf
HP-Service-Note-400D-2C.pdf

Re: simplified 1GC1-4210 replacement for ESA E44xx LO unlock

 

When I click on the link I get Error 404 for the 7Zip file.

Oops, looks like I messed up a link ref. Should be fixed now.

I also finally got around to piecing together bits of video detailing the repair, https://youtu.be/SJsw54jveQs
Re: HP 400H AC VTVM Difficulties

 

Thank You gentlemen for your responses.?? I should have thought to include the instrument serial numbers because I had trouble finding a matching manual on the internet.... but I dropped the ball.?? I will therefore remedy this immediately.

The failed instrument is serial number 5025.
The good instrument is serial number 4939.

The scope that I am using is a Tektronix 465B with 100 MHz bandwidth.?? I also have a 200 MHz bandwidth digital scope should it be necessary to have the extra bandwidth or in case it is desirable to post waveform captures.

The manual I'm using is entitled "400D/H?? Vacuum Tube Voltmeter".?? The frontispiece shows two photos of the instrument with captions describing the models covered as the Model 400D, serial 17971 and above and the Model 400H, serial 2238 and above.?? The manual has a copyright date of 1955 and a publication number of 400DH001-1.

I will have to order some capacitors as I don't think I have enough of the correct values in stock.?? With the Group's permission, I will post additional results as I get them.

I have saved Dave Wise's text document and will read it over for additional information as soon as practical.

Thanks again,
--
Jim Thorusen
KB6GM
Re: Another 3GHz 53132-68003 Chanel 3 option design for the 53131A and 53132A

 

Hi Razvan,

I have option 124 on my hp53132A and it's a clone bought on eBay.
The scale used is 4, because by default, the internal divider is positioned
for a 030 or 3GHz option.

But I found on the EEVblog site, it seems to me, the following file
concerning the activation of the correct divider depending on the option.
I'll try this approach when I have some free time.


Yves

-----Message d'origine-----
De?: [email protected]
<[email protected]> De la part de Razvan Popescu via
groups.io
Envoyé?: 5 mai 2024 16:58
??: [email protected]
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Another 3GHz 53132-68003 Chanel
3 option design for the 53131A and 53132A

Hello Ed,

I saw how the 3GHz board works regarding the divider but I didn't see any
original board more than 3GHz.

I didn't buy any cloned boards because I saw you need to use the math
function scale set to 4.0. I think they do divide by 128 also for the 12GHz
board but they should do probably divide by 512.

How is the original 12Ghz prescaler board working in regards to the divider?

I got the PCBs for the 3GHz version but I didn't order the parts to build
them. I will install the 3GHz prescaler first until I find a prescaler that
doesn't need the scale set to 4.

Razvan


On 04/05/2024 13:22, Ed (scskits) via groups.io wrote:
Razvan:

The 3GHz board is a divide by 128, with a max output of 23.4375MHz at
3GHz.
That has to get to the main board through the ribbon cable, not the
best way to connect.
At 12GHz the output would be almost 100MHz so I think that the higher
frequency option boards likely have an additional divider to keep the
output at a reasonable frequency.

There are two pins (CH3CODE0 and CH3CODE1) on the connector that are
used to tell the main board that one of the options is installed.

I would think that a combination of those pins would select one of the
three options or no option.

I will try to see what effect they have later this weekend.

ed

option 124 12.4GHz_.txt
option 124 12.4GHz_.txt

Re: Another 3GHz 53132-68003 Chanel 3 option design for the 53131A and 53132A

 

Hello Ed,

I saw how the 3GHz board works regarding the divider but I didn't see
any original board more than 3GHz.

I didn't buy any cloned boards because I saw you need to use the math
function scale set to 4.0. I think they do divide by 128 also for the
12GHz board but they should do probably divide by 512.

How is the original 12Ghz prescaler board working in regards to the divider?

I got the PCBs for the 3GHz version but I didn't order the parts to
build them. I will install the 3GHz prescaler first until I find a
prescaler that doesn't need the scale set to 4.

Razvan

On 04/05/2024 13:22, Ed (scskits) via groups.io wrote:
Razvan:

The 3GHz board is a divide by 128, with a max output of 23.4375MHz at 3GHz.
That has to get to the main board through the ribbon cable, not the best
way to connect.
At 12GHz the output would be almost 100MHz so I think that the higher
frequency option boards likely have an additional divider to keep the
output at a reasonable frequency.

There are two pins (CH3CODE0 and CH3CODE1) on the connector that are
used to tell the main board that one of the options is installed.

I would think that a combination of those pins would select one of the
three options or no option.

I will try to see what effect they have later this weekend.

ed
Re: HP 3852A firmware update issue

 

Rick
I did follow the? instructions on and that seems to be the issue.?? I tried another version from the file section that was 4.21 copied from 27c512 ROMS. The chips need to be 27C512? not 27C256 as mentioned on the www.dalton.ax page or on the notes in the file section .? I uploaded the 4.21 version to 8 chips of 27C512 and all is good - no more warning messages.

The working version 4.21? was posted by ChrisBeee here - make sure to program to 27c512 chips. :
/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/files/All%20HP,%20Agilent%20and%20Keysight%20instruments%20in%20folders%20by%20part%20numbers/3000%20to%203999/3852A%20Data%20Acquisition%20Control%20Unit/3852A-421-ROMs.zip
Follow the instructions from HP :
/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/files/All%20HP,%20Agilent%20and%20Keysight%20instruments%20in%20folders%20by%20part%20numbers/3000%20to%203999/3852A%20Data%20Acquisition%20Control%20Unit/3852A-4.22-ROM-upgrade.pdf

Too bad the 4.22 is not working.


Maciej
Re: Attenuator "O" Rings

 

I Measured:

The Diameter of the pin itself to be 40 Thousands of an inch which is very close to ONE mm.
This corresponds to the ID of the O Ring
The OD is twice that so the Cross Section is .5 mm..? OD= 2XCS + ID

So I think VK2BEA is quite correct.

I do not have Metric measurement tools so I have to translate from the measurements on my English micrometers and calipers
Re: Attenuator "O" Rings

 

I used these o-rings from 'The O-Ring Store' on the attenuator from the 8595E (a 33321 attenuator I think).

https://www.theoringstore.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=368_12_2185&products_id=43455
Re: Attenuator "O" Rings

 

Do these look correct???


https://www.ebay.com/itm/293851527865?itmmeta=01HX2WM6F270SAZY0X9KSYJH67&hash=item446aea7ab9:g:4NcAAOSwC7Vh1id6&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4NyxuU3mlUEZV%2Bn9csEzewYdmbqpmPKU2zfXTNMFqmn8eaEDgCi3paQRuFWeIRfM%2FDoLlVjIxoJ%2FR0dl8MmaBF9jq3BOVXcW20QC4dgpmEEGmh3sQP%2FKY6GaYJNwisDDlQTrSR2GMhOtwoz5QboqhdRA9j45ejvMbJ86V21tFz3d2gJNUfYPaBpMGrUdCRVQLnB%2FqwIN7EQZAhaSXHi5ZNV--jLUlx1cBNT%2B0fVai4RYtWrI3BBxl0dkpZDeX0DQ1fCJpGK0SDf4xeXLO9VkA2xw6bRFIwty%2B4WpTsGf%2BvMW%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9bn0NzoYw
Re: Attenuator "O" Rings

 

On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 08:51 AM, Radu Bogdan Dicher wrote:
I've used Amazon as source of o-rings when I repaired my 8657B. But to your pertinent point, I think I'd go McMaster-Carr or similar today:?.
McMaster-Carr is also my normal go-to for quality O-rings. I checked there, but they don't go as small as the 1 mm ID/2 mm OD that others called out. Buna-N is certainly the best choice of material.

I don't know about this application. Would the durometer (hardness) matter here? Buna-N O-rings can be bought in a range of durometers, where 70 is the norm, but harder and softer versions are available.

Try Apple Rubber. They have LOTs of choices in small sizes.?
Re: HP 400H AC VTVM Difficulties

 

The 400H is just the higher precision version of the HP 400 family, which had a VERY long history with HP, probably over 30 years, so there are lots of versions, usually differentiated by changes in the serial prefix. (The earliest models did not have a prefix.)

The very first thing to do with any member of this family is to replace all 4 of the large cylindrical capacitors. If yours are still the originals, they will be leaky by now. One of them is in the PS and minor leakage won't be a problem, but you might as well replace all of them while you're at it.

The other 3 are interstage plate to grid coupling capacitors. Leakage here will raise the grid voltage of the following stage, pushing that stage toward saturation, poor performance, lots of heat dissipation, and reduced tube life. Good quality Mylar caps make better than original replacements. Each of these three also has a mica cap in parallel with it, and sometimes I've found one of those to also be leaky. Check each grid voltage to see if it agrees with the schematic.

Once you get these fixed, you can move on to the problem you asked about. I don't have any specific recommendations for that problem, but I'd suspect a problem with poor contact in the range switch. Treatment with Deoxit followed by Shield should be good for this.

If you continue to have problems, post your serial numbers/prefixes so we know what version you're working with. I probably have 5 different manuals for the HP400 series, and I'm sure I'm still not completely covered.
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