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Date
Re: N9020A

 

On 4/21/24 22:44, Tom via Metronet wrote:
last I heard, an original X-series can be upgraded to the lates Wintel version just by replacing that module. The RF hardware doesn¡¯t need to change at all.
Some of the aliexpress sellers offer a bare metal MXA without all the options for $150. It could be a parts donor to upgrade an old MXA, but then how to add options?
Re: N9020A

 

The best advice I can offer is to look past the datasheet numbers for the SM435C and look at what is inside the box. It's a low IF receiver that will be prone to image issues just like the little RSP1A SDR receivers although the SM435C will probably offer >50dB image rejection most of the time.

Imagine having a lab spectrum analyser that always showed a mirror image of all signals at maybe -60dBc that were a few tens of MHz away from the real signals. Then try and imagine what happens when you tune the LO. Some signals are going to move as expected and the image signals will behave differently. Some of their other products use a low IF and they do some tricks in DSP to try and boost the image rejection.
I don't think that is going to be feasible on a real time instrument, so I suspect you will have to grin and bear the image reject issue on the SM435C.
Re: HP 140B LVPS -12.6V Not Working

 

Yes, it was regarding the 180A repair.

The 2n3904 I replaced has the EBC embossed on the flat and I made sure I placed the new one in correctly.? Unlike the one pictured in the foreground, its base lead is bent forward.? A lot of the Tek gear does that as well.

I measured BE and BC across Q484 while powered up and I get 0.7V drop across each so I'm thinking the transistor may not be the problem but can't say that for sure.? Two diodes does not a transistor maketh.? Still looking...

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

From: "factory" <bobradios11@...>
To: "HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2024 2:53:54 PM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 140B LVPS -12.6V Not Working
You might have seen my comments on the eevblog forum and/or the UK vintage radio forum, most recent repair involving the 4-071 was a HP 180A, several got replaced in the PSU, another failed once the PSU board was refitted, and the last I changed was an intermittent one in the HV regulator circuit and causing the trace to disappear once the scope warmed up, this 180A is an extreme example as it had been stored very badly by a previous owner, lots of corrosion/rust etc.

With the different variants of the 4-071 you need to make sure the leads are in the right configuration, one of the old 4-071 variants has leads formed to get the base in the middle. TI is Texas Instruments, the 001 is a date/batch code, the Motorola ones usually have EBC marked on them.

David

Re: N9020A

 

It's difficult to compare the SH to the MXA because the MXA is a classic lab spectrum analyser with the emphasis on achieving low measurement uncertainty and excellent spurious free dynamic range. The SH product is all about tuning fast and grabbing and processing data as fast as possible and this comes at the price of reduced spurious free dynamic range and relatively poor input VSWR and poor amplitude flatness vs frequency.

The SH signal path isn't designed to achieve low input VSWR or a flat response and the low IF receiver architecture will inevitably have image reject issues at twice the low IF away. It's usually very difficult to get more than about 50dB image rejection in this respect. This limitation alone is enough to prevent the SH product being considered as a valid lab spectrum analyser. Throw in the poor input VSWR and poor amplitude response and it really can't be compared against a lab analyser (if the person actually wants a general purpose lab analyser that is).

By contrast, if the aim is to use the instrument as a radio receiver and just grab and process signals from an antenna (or maybe a signal generator) then the SH will be very competitive compared to the MXA. The two instruments are aimed at different customer types in my opinion.
Re: Agilent E4404B Spectrum Analyzer With Dead PSU Repair

 

Yes, I've bought new RIFA caps to replace the old ones.? WIMA and Kemet are two other brands that make the safety rated X and Y caps.

But I don't replace old RIFAs on sight anymore.? Too much collateral damage by a ham-fisted engineer with a soldering iron in his hand, and explosions are rare here in 120 VAC land.? Those in 240 VAC land risk explosions, though.

HTH.

Jim Ford
Laguna Hills, California, USA

"And we know that God causes all things to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them." Romans 8:28 (NLT)


------ Original Message ------
From "Dave McGuire" <mcguire@...>
Date 4/22/2024 2:27:58 PM
Subject Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Agilent E4404B Spectrum Analyzer With Dead PSU Repair

On 4/22/24 15:22, Allen Hill via groups.io wrote:
Are RIF caps still used in new equipment, or have manufacturers found better solutions?
?
The common RIFA capacitor failure is a materials problem, which was solved long ago. Later RIFA capacitors do not exhibit the explosion problem. Many companies manufacture safety capacitors.
?
-Dave
?
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
?
?
?
?
?
Re: N9020A

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi John

You are right¡­the top notch versions from signal hound are very impressive ¨CI were referring to their models matching the price---below 2k¡­all have a price .As jeremy points to--- we just experience ?a great new ??deal as we had with E4406A (recall you bought two-- Still in use? )The ?MXA are not the best ¡­ but great value below 2k¡¯

Hardy

?

Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af John Miles
Sendt: 22. april 2024 21:41
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

?

The SM435C is a damned impressive piece of hardware.? If you are seeing them advertised for ¡°10k$,¡± I¡¯ll take a piece of that action.

?

Both it and the N9020B offer 160 MHz of acquisition bandwidth, but you can actually get the data out of the Signal Hound, streamable in realtime over 10Gb Ethernet.? ?And at first glance it looks like the N9020B has about 20 dB worse phase noise than the N9020B.?

?

The Signal Hound only goes to 43 GHz, though, where the MXA does 50. ?So there¡¯s that. ?

?

-- john, KE5FX

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of hardyhansendk via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2024 12:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

?

Hi Jeremy

Spot on

One can not? compare the performance of Signal Hound(many versions) and? the MXA. We are dealing with a low cost surplus ?instrument with specs far beyond the? usual broad band receive/monitor devices as I think signal hound belong to- up to units cost about 10k$--just my view¡­..No ?this thread are about getting a instrument with performance far beyond what we are used to ?have.

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Virusfri.
Re: HP 140B LVPS -12.6V Not Working

 

You might have seen my comments on the eevblog forum and/or the UK vintage radio forum, most recent repair involving the 4-071 was a HP 180A, several got replaced in the PSU, another failed once the PSU board was refitted, and the last I changed was an intermittent one in the HV regulator circuit and causing the trace to disappear once the scope warmed up, this 180A is an extreme example as it had been stored very badly by a previous owner, lots of corrosion/rust etc.

With the different variants of the 4-071 you need to make sure the leads are in the right configuration, one of the old 4-071 variants has leads formed to get the base in the middle. TI is Texas Instruments, the 001 is a date/batch code, the Motorola ones usually have EBC marked on them.

David
Re: N9020A

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

The SM435C is a damned impressive piece of hardware.? If you are seeing them advertised for ¡°10k$,¡± I¡¯ll take a piece of that action.

?

Both it and the N9020B offer 160 MHz of acquisition bandwidth, but you can actually get the data out of the Signal Hound, streamable in realtime over 10Gb Ethernet.? ?And at first glance it looks like the N9020B has about 20 dB worse phase noise than the N9020B.?

?

The Signal Hound only goes to 43 GHz, though, where the MXA does 50. ?So there¡¯s that. ?

?

-- john, KE5FX

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of hardyhansendk via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2024 12:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

?

Hi Jeremy

Spot on

One can not? compare the performance of Signal Hound(many versions) and? the MXA. We are dealing with a low cost surplus ?instrument with specs far beyond the? usual broad band receive/monitor devices as I think signal hound belong to- up to units cost about 10k$--just my view¡­..No ?this thread are about getting a instrument with performance far beyond what we are used to ?have.

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Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [john@...]

_._,_._,_
Re: Agilent E4404B Spectrum Analyzer With Dead PSU Repair

 

On 4/22/24 15:22, Allen Hill via groups.io wrote:
Are RIF caps still used in new equipment, or have manufacturers found better solutions?
The common RIFA capacitor failure is a materials problem, which was solved long ago. Later RIFA capacitors do not exhibit the explosion problem. Many companies manufacture safety capacitors.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: Agilent E4404B Spectrum Analyzer With Dead PSU Repair

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Are RIF caps still used in new equipment, or have manufacturers found better solutions?

Thanks
KI4QCK
Allen Hill

On Apr 22, 2024, at 2:55?PM, Nick Stanley <rosewardxiii@...> wrote:

?Hi all, figure a good old repair attempt would be a good 1st post.
I bought a broken E4404B SA in hopes to repair it. The seller said it has a dead PSU, but doesn't know if it has any other failures.

I took the PSU out to test it. I decided to test all the MOSFETs and the 2 optocouplers, all tested good.
Then I realized since this PSU can take DC input, I can just supply 12VDC and see if the DC-DC converter secondary side work. And it DOES. All voltage rails (+28V, +15V. +5V. -5V, -15V, fan) are all present. Draws about 5-6W which seems alright.

Which narrows down the failure to the AC mains sides. I checked the mains side, the 2 bulk caps hold a total of about 310VDC, which matches with the peak of rectified mains AC.
When I force the supply on while connect to mains, I hears a small click every second. Measurements of the DC rails shows them varying greatly. It's like the PSU is trying to start up but can't.
Will update with any progress and pictures soon.

Also, as I was testing the PSU, one of the RIFA caps exploded, filling my room with smoke and cover the PCB in tars. Horrible

Re: N9020A

 

Ah, you are correct; the PXA models we have at work are N9030A and N9030B.? My mistake.

Regarding the data format, that is something interesting that I have not looked into.? It may be an opportunity to speed up the tests; I will check with our instrumentation engineers.

Thanks a bunch, Hardy!

Jim


------ Original Message ------
From "hardyhansendk via groups.io" <hardyhansen@...>
Date 4/22/2024 12:02:51 PM
Subject Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

Hi

First we have to be sure what analyzer ?model we test¡­N9020A and N9020B both belong to the MXA series---not the PXA series.

Regarding transfer speed we also must look at the data format in use---real-floating-integer -ascii-16 or 64 bit.That makes a great difference.

Hardy

?

Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af Jim Ford
Sendt: 22. april 2024 16:44
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

?

I note that the newer PXAs run our automated tests that check for spurious signals considerably faster than even the older PXAs at work.? The old ones take about 1.5 times longer to do the same tests.? IIRC, the model numbers are N9020A and N9020B.? I'm working from home today so I can't check until tomorrow.? But even within a product line, improvements in performance do happen.

?

HTH

?

Jim Ford

Laguna Hills, California, USA

?

"And we know that God causes all things to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them." Romans 8:28 (NLT)


?

?

------ Original Message ------

From "Tom via Metronet" <n8zmTWH@...>

Date 4/21/2024 11:44:15 PM

Subject Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

?

The X-series analyzers have evolved quite a bit since their introduction, as the early versions ran XP, and the newer ones are probably on Win10, maybe 11. That gets into licensing negotiations with uSoft. Even with XP, the EXA, MXA, and PXA were faster and more capable than the PSA.

?

The PSA was faster than the 8566/8568, and had a better display, as well as better dynamic range and speed. Log mag display linearity was no longer an issue as the log amps in the IF were replaced with software log functions. Dynamic range was at least 20 dB better. Amplitude accuracy improved from =/- 1.5 dB or worse to less than .5 dB, almost into power meter territory. ?The limitation of the PSA was that it could not support USB devices very well. Writing thee drivers to accommodate every possible peripheral in the wild, wild west that was USB back then was a lot of work. uS was doing all of that work, so why re-invent the wheel.

?

The EXA/MXA/PXA took a lot of the hardware tech from the PSA and added the speed, memory, peripheral support, and processing horsepower of a modern PC, integral to the machine. Could it have used Linux instead of Windows? Yes, but at the time, Linux did not have the horsepower and peripheral support, among other things. ?

?

Some features that ship standard with every box:

?

More displayed data points, at least 64,000 last I knew were available. No, the LCD won¡¯t show them all but they are all available via GPIB, USB, or LAN ports.

?

Sweep speeds are substantially faster than the 8566/8568.

?

Amplitude accuracy and frequency are much better because of the large amounts of memory, both RAM and disk, which allows calibrating at more points across the range of the box, and applying the corrections immediately.

?

Measurements like channel power and adjacent channel power are available.

?

There are at least 4, traces available, in color, that can use any of 4 or 5 different detectors, so you can compare traces taken simultaneously with different detectors ( Rosenfell, Peak, Neg Peak, Average, and Sample). There are more trace math tricks available than the earlier models.

?

There are, I think, 10 markers available, on each trace. Any marker can be a reference marker and any other marker can be a delta marker to that. Multiple reference and delta markers can exist on the same trace.

?

On board storage of setups, traces, etc. is limited only by the size of the hard disk, which of course have grown larger over time. With the USB and LAN ports, off-board storage is just like you would do on a Win PC.

?

There are several other cool things the X-series can do, but I think I¡¯ve hit a few of the more useful ones.

?

I have used the 8566/8568 family since they came out in the late 70¡¯s, the PSA for several years, and also the X-series since they were introduced. I still own a 66, a 68, and a 3.6 GHz EXA. I don¡¯t use the 68 much. I use the 66 for microwave needs, but the EXA for most everything else on my test bench. Yeah, I hate the slow boot up time, but it does everything else so well and so much faster, and I very seldom need to post-process any sweeps, which saves me a lot more time than the slow boot up costs.

?

My EXA has the noise figure option, and it does have some quirks compared the using the 8970 system that I used to have, but it is just as capable. It doesn¡¯t have quite as many tricks as the 8970 could pull off with its Special Functions menu, but I haven¡¯t missed those.

?

I have had the EXA for going on 15 years and have not had any problems with it. (OK, now I¡¯m slightly apprehensive about going into the lab and turning it on, having said that!)

?

Just like PCs in general, the hardware needed to support newer versions of Windows has changed, and obsoletes the older stuff. An upgrade is pretty simple, though not hobbyist cheap. The computer part ?is a plug in module that has a standard interface, so that , last I heard, an original X-series can be upgraded to the lates Wintel version just by replacing that module. The RF hardware doesn¡¯t need to change at all. Certainly, I would expect that more recently built units will have better RF stuff as that evolves over time.

?

Blame the suits for going to a Windows OS? Nope, blame the engineers who finally got the freedom to build a machine that could do everything that the evolving technology of RF hardware, signal processing, and computing horsepower made possible.

?

Tom, N8ZM

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of hardyhansendk via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2024 11:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

?

Hi

Just an extra note

The preamp are inbuilt all MXA`s

One of the very nice features are a package named EDP..enhanced display package¡ª its also an ?software option and works wonders-it simply lets you make normal sweeps at your own choise¡­and have a split screen with a spectrogram¡­.

If one buy from the seller I earlier have linked to,you simply ask Hong for the options you want..and the analyzer can use!!

?

Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af hardyhansendk via groups.io
Sendt: 22. april 2024 04:51
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

?

Hi Jeremy et all

The MXA have both a preamp and electronically attenuator as option.All MXA have inbuilt 28v dc for noise sources.

The phase noise and noise figure options works even better than the one used in the old PSA.

Regarding vsa 89600 software¡­.all MXA` used to come with ?version 12.02 and version 14 preinstalled.works great in my MXA`s -and of course one can use this software from a pc as well.

There exist ?cracks for version 12.02 and version 22.21.

Only two of the sellers at ebay can offer the units with-a lot- of options¡­have made a link.

I have collected most info about these nice systems.If interested I can share!!

The only caveat are the bandwidth at 3.6 Ghz,but many of us ?still have the ?old HP/Agilent 856x/859x series analyzers going to multi Ghz.Combinedwith the 3.6 Ghz MXA it¡¯s a great combo as the vsa 89600 sofware have an inbuilt up/down converter mode.The MXA come standard with a digital bandwidth of 25 Mhz!!!

Hardy

?

?

Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af jmr via groups.io
Sendt: 22. april 2024 00:22
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

?

Here's the datasheet for the N9020A? MXA analyser


It may be the case that the 28V hardware for driving an external noise source is standard equipment. It might therefore be possible to measure noise figure by adding a suitable licence code. Maybe Hardy can advise about this.

The analyser would also need a preamp to cover up to 3.6GHz or an external (homebrew or HP) preamp could be fitted. The noise figure of the internal preamp isn't that great, so I'd recommend making an external preamp, especially for use below about 1GHz.

A noise source would also be needed and this could be homebrew or something like an HP 346A/B. A homebrew noise source would be a lot cheaper but it won't be as stable or as accurate.

The noise figure GUI will probably be similar to that used in other Agilent/Keysight analysers. It's a really nice feature to have on a modern spectrum analyser.?

?

Virusfri.
Re: N9020A

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Jeremy

Spot on

One can not? compare the performance of Signal Hound(many versions) and? the MXA. We are dealing with a low cost surplus ?instrument with specs far beyond the? usual broad band receive/monitor devices as I think signal hound belong to- up to units cost about 10k$--just my view¡­..No ?this thread are about getting a instrument with performance far beyond what we are used to ?have.

Hardy

?

Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af jmr via groups.io
Sendt: 22. april 2024 19:07
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

?

On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 03:23 PM, John Miles wrote:

Frankly if I were shopping for a new MXA-class spectrum analyzer today I'd
be inclined to look at Signal Hound first. Their newer SAs don't give up
much ground to the big boys in terms of features or performance, and most of
their gear supports Linux as well as Windows.

Which SH product were you thinking of that can be compared to an MXA? Their products appear to me to be aimed at a different type of customer.
In other words, if you want something small and low cost that can sweep quickly and process data quickly then the SH products look very powerful to me. However, to get this you have to trade against some fairly grim looking performance specs elsewhere. There's too many compromises in the hardware to allow a valid comparison with an MXA analyser unless the person doesn't actually 'need' the all round excellence of the MXA.







Virusfri.
Re: 5342A: sometimes counts, sometimes not

 

PD: service manual is pure gold. I found this thread to pull ...

WhatsApp Image 2024-04-22 at 21.03.01.jpeg

Agilent E4404B Spectrum Analyzer With Dead PSU Repair

 

Hi all, figure a good old repair attempt would be a good 1st post.
I bought a broken E4404B SA in hopes to repair it. The seller said it has a dead PSU, but doesn't know if it has any other failures.

I took the PSU out to test it. I decided to test all the MOSFETs and the 2 optocouplers, all tested good.
Then I realized since this PSU can take DC input, I can just supply 12VDC and see if the DC-DC converter secondary side work. And it DOES. All voltage rails (+28V, +15V. +5V. -5V, -15V, fan) are all present. Draws about 5-6W which seems alright.

Which narrows down the failure to the AC mains sides. I checked the mains side, the 2 bulk caps hold a total of about 310VDC, which matches with the peak of rectified mains AC.
When I force the supply on while connect to mains, I hears a small click every second. Measurements of the DC rails shows them varying greatly. It's like the PSU is trying to start up but can't.
Will update with any progress and pictures soon.

Also, as I was testing the PSU, one of the RIFA caps exploded, filling my room with smoke and cover the PCB in tars. Horrible
Re: 5342A: sometimes counts, sometimes not

 

Remarkable to mention that the input 2 works fine, with both internal and external freq references.

Internal opt 001 oven it's now adjusted to be closest possible to the gpsdo phase.

Still don't get that 75000000 with self check, I'll read the service manual about.

R.
Re: N9020A

 

Hey
Are we still talking about N9020A?....come on ..dont hi-jack this thread!!!
Hardy

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: [email protected]
<[email protected]> P? vegne af Chuck Harris
Sendt: 22. april 2024 19:27
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

Hi John,

I tried several other words in that place before communism.

I thought perhaps fascism, as defined by Mussolini, socialism,
corporatism... None of them really fit quite right.

The essence I was trying to convey was one of forced redistribution of
wealth, which is a prime affect of communism. The government is being asked
by some consumers to force manufacturers to spend their money in ways they
don't consider beneficial to their companies... using methods that aren't
included in the government's enumerated powers.

Feudalism didn't occur to me. It requires a monarch with power over the
buyers... I don't know who that would be. For every John Deere, there are
ten other companies, many of them foreign, that won't lock down repairs.
For every Apple, there are 1000 different companies making android phones.

I haven't run factory software in any of my phones in decades.

Out here in farm country, I am seeing lots of orange, red and blue tractors
these days.

-Chuck Harris


On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 08:27:31 -0700 "John Miles" <john@...> wrote:
Everything in politics is a reaction to something else. Right To
Repair is a reaction to blatant market abuses by a couple of bad
actors -- not calling any names, but, um, Apple and John Deere.
Customers were basically given the choice to shoulder unreasonable
costs to maintain products they've purchased or to switch to inferior
products... a choice that's increasingly dictated by network effects.

If those companies were surprised when their customers wrote their
Congressmen, well, gee, bummer, I guess that's on them.

Rather than being a manifestation of "communism," right-to-repair is a
reaction to the "You will own nothing and be happy" sentiment
propagated by certain people who would not normally be identified as
communists. It's not helpful or productive to use terms like
"communism" in this context. Feudalism might be a better card to play.

-- john, KE5FX

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
<[email protected]> On Behalf Of Chuck Harris

Right to Repair, is a communistic, people's power sort of proposal...










--
Denne mail er blevet tjekket for vira af AVG-antivirussoftware.
www.avg.com
Re: N9020A

 

Hi John,

I tried several other words in that place before communism.

I thought perhaps fascism, as defined by Mussolini, socialism,
corporatism... None of them really fit quite right.

The essence I was trying to convey was one of forced redistribution
of wealth, which is a prime affect of communism. The government
is being asked by some consumers to force manufacturers to spend
their money in ways they don't consider beneficial to their
companies... using methods that aren't included in the government's
enumerated powers.

Feudalism didn't occur to me. It requires a monarch with power
over the buyers... I don't know who that would be. For every
John Deere, there are ten other companies, many of them foreign,
that won't lock down repairs. For every Apple, there are 1000
different companies making android phones.

I haven't run factory software in any of my phones in decades.

Out here in farm country, I am seeing lots of orange, red and
blue tractors these days.

-Chuck Harris

On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 08:27:31 -0700 "John Miles" <john@...> wrote:
Everything in politics is a reaction to something else. Right To
Repair is a reaction to blatant market abuses by a couple of bad
actors -- not calling any names, but, um, Apple and John Deere.
Customers were basically given the choice to shoulder unreasonable
costs to maintain products they've purchased or to switch to inferior
products... a choice that's increasingly dictated by network effects.

If those companies were surprised when their customers wrote their
Congressmen, well, gee, bummer, I guess that's on them.

Rather than being a manifestation of "communism," right-to-repair is a
reaction to the "You will own nothing and be happy" sentiment
propagated by certain people who would not normally be identified as
communists. It's not helpful or productive to use terms like
"communism" in this context. Feudalism might be a better card to play.

-- john, KE5FX

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
<[email protected]> On Behalf Of Chuck Harris

Right to Repair, is a communistic, people's power sort of proposal...
Re: 5342A: sometimes counts, sometimes not

 

Yes, that one
Re: N9020A

 

On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 03:23 PM, John Miles wrote:
Frankly if I were shopping for a new MXA-class spectrum analyzer today I'd
be inclined to look at Signal Hound first. Their newer SAs don't give up
much ground to the big boys in terms of features or performance, and most of
their gear supports Linux as well as Windows.
Which SH product were you thinking of that can be compared to an MXA? Their products appear to me to be aimed at a different type of customer.
In other words, if you want something small and low cost that can sweep quickly and process data quickly then the SH products look very powerful to me. However, to get this you have to trade against some fairly grim looking performance specs elsewhere. There's too many compromises in the hardware to allow a valid comparison with an MXA analyser unless the person doesn't actually 'need' the all round excellence of the MXA.
Re: N9020A

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi

First we have to be sure what analyzer ?model we test¡­N9020A and N9020B both belong to the MXA series---not the PXA series.

Regarding transfer speed we also must look at the data format in use---real-floating-integer -ascii-16 or 64 bit.That makes a great difference.

Hardy

?

Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af Jim Ford
Sendt: 22. april 2024 16:44
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

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I note that the newer PXAs run our automated tests that check for spurious signals considerably faster than even the older PXAs at work.? The old ones take about 1.5 times longer to do the same tests.? IIRC, the model numbers are N9020A and N9020B.? I'm working from home today so I can't check until tomorrow.? But even within a product line, improvements in performance do happen.

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HTH

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Jim Ford

Laguna Hills, California, USA

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"And we know that God causes all things to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them." Romans 8:28 (NLT)


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------ Original Message ------

From "Tom via Metronet" <n8zmTWH@...>

Date 4/21/2024 11:44:15 PM

Subject Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

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The X-series analyzers have evolved quite a bit since their introduction, as the early versions ran XP, and the newer ones are probably on Win10, maybe 11. That gets into licensing negotiations with uSoft. Even with XP, the EXA, MXA, and PXA were faster and more capable than the PSA.

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The PSA was faster than the 8566/8568, and had a better display, as well as better dynamic range and speed. Log mag display linearity was no longer an issue as the log amps in the IF were replaced with software log functions. Dynamic range was at least 20 dB better. Amplitude accuracy improved from =/- 1.5 dB or worse to less than .5 dB, almost into power meter territory. ?The limitation of the PSA was that it could not support USB devices very well. Writing thee drivers to accommodate every possible peripheral in the wild, wild west that was USB back then was a lot of work. uS was doing all of that work, so why re-invent the wheel.

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The EXA/MXA/PXA took a lot of the hardware tech from the PSA and added the speed, memory, peripheral support, and processing horsepower of a modern PC, integral to the machine. Could it have used Linux instead of Windows? Yes, but at the time, Linux did not have the horsepower and peripheral support, among other things. ?

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Some features that ship standard with every box:

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More displayed data points, at least 64,000 last I knew were available. No, the LCD won¡¯t show them all but they are all available via GPIB, USB, or LAN ports.

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Sweep speeds are substantially faster than the 8566/8568.

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Amplitude accuracy and frequency are much better because of the large amounts of memory, both RAM and disk, which allows calibrating at more points across the range of the box, and applying the corrections immediately.

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Measurements like channel power and adjacent channel power are available.

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There are at least 4, traces available, in color, that can use any of 4 or 5 different detectors, so you can compare traces taken simultaneously with different detectors ( Rosenfell, Peak, Neg Peak, Average, and Sample). There are more trace math tricks available than the earlier models.

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There are, I think, 10 markers available, on each trace. Any marker can be a reference marker and any other marker can be a delta marker to that. Multiple reference and delta markers can exist on the same trace.

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On board storage of setups, traces, etc. is limited only by the size of the hard disk, which of course have grown larger over time. With the USB and LAN ports, off-board storage is just like you would do on a Win PC.

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There are several other cool things the X-series can do, but I think I¡¯ve hit a few of the more useful ones.

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I have used the 8566/8568 family since they came out in the late 70¡¯s, the PSA for several years, and also the X-series since they were introduced. I still own a 66, a 68, and a 3.6 GHz EXA. I don¡¯t use the 68 much. I use the 66 for microwave needs, but the EXA for most everything else on my test bench. Yeah, I hate the slow boot up time, but it does everything else so well and so much faster, and I very seldom need to post-process any sweeps, which saves me a lot more time than the slow boot up costs.

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My EXA has the noise figure option, and it does have some quirks compared the using the 8970 system that I used to have, but it is just as capable. It doesn¡¯t have quite as many tricks as the 8970 could pull off with its Special Functions menu, but I haven¡¯t missed those.

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I have had the EXA for going on 15 years and have not had any problems with it. (OK, now I¡¯m slightly apprehensive about going into the lab and turning it on, having said that!)

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Just like PCs in general, the hardware needed to support newer versions of Windows has changed, and obsoletes the older stuff. An upgrade is pretty simple, though not hobbyist cheap. The computer part ?is a plug in module that has a standard interface, so that , last I heard, an original X-series can be upgraded to the lates Wintel version just by replacing that module. The RF hardware doesn¡¯t need to change at all. Certainly, I would expect that more recently built units will have better RF stuff as that evolves over time.

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Blame the suits for going to a Windows OS? Nope, blame the engineers who finally got the freedom to build a machine that could do everything that the evolving technology of RF hardware, signal processing, and computing horsepower made possible.

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Tom, N8ZM

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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of hardyhansendk via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2024 11:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

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Hi

Just an extra note

The preamp are inbuilt all MXA`s

One of the very nice features are a package named EDP..enhanced display package¡ª its also an ?software option and works wonders-it simply lets you make normal sweeps at your own choise¡­and have a split screen with a spectrogram¡­.

If one buy from the seller I earlier have linked to,you simply ask Hong for the options you want..and the analyzer can use!!

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Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af hardyhansendk via groups.io
Sendt: 22. april 2024 04:51
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

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Hi Jeremy et all

The MXA have both a preamp and electronically attenuator as option.All MXA have inbuilt 28v dc for noise sources.

The phase noise and noise figure options works even better than the one used in the old PSA.

Regarding vsa 89600 software¡­.all MXA` used to come with ?version 12.02 and version 14 preinstalled.works great in my MXA`s -and of course one can use this software from a pc as well.

There exist ?cracks for version 12.02 and version 22.21.

Only two of the sellers at ebay can offer the units with-a lot- of options¡­have made a link.

I have collected most info about these nice systems.If interested I can share!!

The only caveat are the bandwidth at 3.6 Ghz,but many of us ?still have the ?old HP/Agilent 856x/859x series analyzers going to multi Ghz.Combinedwith the 3.6 Ghz MXA it¡¯s a great combo as the vsa 89600 sofware have an inbuilt up/down converter mode.The MXA come standard with a digital bandwidth of 25 Mhz!!!

Hardy

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Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af jmr via groups.io
Sendt: 22. april 2024 00:22
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] N9020A

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Here's the datasheet for the N9020A? MXA analyser


It may be the case that the 28V hardware for driving an external noise source is standard equipment. It might therefore be possible to measure noise figure by adding a suitable licence code. Maybe Hardy can advise about this.

The analyser would also need a preamp to cover up to 3.6GHz or an external (homebrew or HP) preamp could be fitted. The noise figure of the internal preamp isn't that great, so I'd recommend making an external preamp, especially for use below about 1GHz.

A noise source would also be needed and this could be homebrew or something like an HP 346A/B. A homebrew noise source would be a lot cheaper but it won't be as stable or as accurate.

The noise figure GUI will probably be similar to that used in other Agilent/Keysight analysers. It's a really nice feature to have on a modern spectrum analyser.?

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