Re: Source of measurements HP54542C
On Sun, Apr 14, 2024 at 05:34 AM, peter bunge wrote:
54542C DSO.
Good morning Peter from Australia.? While I don't have this CRO (I have a HP 54600) I suggest look at? for the resource information.?Specifically the Quick Start Guides. These are sometimes called QIG Quick install guides on differing products. Written to get you familiar with some basic measurements as a starting/learning point.? Working through the QSG and once familiar with basic controls, terminology and functions referring to the user manual will make more sense. Sometimes there is an overall series manual that will be more informative in general terms. Of course youtube will contain at least someone showing basic use, unpacking and use, repair and use etc. These can be useful in some way.? Good luck.? maxwelloau
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Re: HP8568B battery replacement
Gianini, The reason that you had 2 different batteries in your 8568B (it used to be an A before the B mod), the person that did the mod did not remove the 3 cell battery pack, which he was supposed to do per the B installation note. The only battery used now is on the A15 brd. in the RF section. There are no calibration factors stored in this memory, only user settings are kept alive with this battery. If you run the self correction routine those values may be kept in the battery backed memory., until you run the correction routine again. The attenuator corrections are stored in the EProm that is replaced when you change the attenuator, IIRC it may be A15U8??.
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Re: OT: low volt wiring, supercaps
On 2024-04-13 11:36 AM, John Griessen via groups.io wrote: Who would put some DC wiring in their house to be able to use solar PV to run things like computers? I would and did. I have 48V solar with two 230AH battery banks in parallel (but can separate them if I need to); this runs a true sine wave 240/120VAC inverter. Some heavy 240/120VAC wiring to the central utility room, where it branches out on its own subpanel to transfer switches that I have tested to confirm break-before-make, so I can put individual loads (including the 240VAC well pump) on either solar or grid power at will. I also have 12V solar, similarly with four 230AH battery banks in parallel. I no longer use the inverter on this system, but have run #6/3 cable to its own breaker panel in the utility room (standard GE commodity circuit breakers are rated to 30VDC), with sub-circuits to run my ham radio gear, LED "candles" in the windows, assorted convenience lighting including some low-light safety lights near top and bottom of the stairs, outside each bathroom, and a few other critical areas, as well as kitchen lighting and reading lamps over our bed. When a storm knocks out grid power here, life continues pretty much normally - but the internet "doesn't work", giving a better excuse for family board games around the kitchen table. I just wish I'd have known what I know now, when we had the house built some 39 years ago, and the general contractor said "the tradesmen will handle it" when I demanded to see mechanical drawings for how the electric, plumbing, heating, etc. was going to run. I should have stood my ground. Steve Hendrix
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Re: HP6643A - Blows Fuse When Activated
Appliance bulbs in particular.? Are halogen considered incondescent?
They are.? May not quite work the way you think, but they are. They're higher temperature than normal incandescent.? Definitely look for appliance bulbs.
Harvey
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On Sat, Apr 13, 2024, 5:15?PM Peter Gottlieb <hpnpilot@...> wrote:
They sell them in the local Home Depot, appliance bulbs and halogens bulbs.
On 4/13/2024 6:23 PM, Michael Yellin wrote: > I can't believe how difficult it is to find an incandescent bulb.? Gotta wait > to get one from Ebay. > > On Mon, Apr 8, 2024, 9:27?PM Michael Yellin via groups.io <> <> > <michaelhq54@...> wrote: > >? ? ?Will do.? Thanks for the offer, I plan to take you up on it. > >? ? ?On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 4:43?PM Peter Gottlieb <hpnpilot@...> wrote: > >? ? ? ? ?Try starting with a 60 Watt incandescent. > >? ? ? ? ?If you need help troubleshooting the supply I would be happy to assist. > >? ? ? ? ?Peter > >>? ? ? ? ?On Apr 8, 2024, at 7:33?PM, Michael Yellin <michaelhq54@...> wrote: >> >>? ? ? ? ?? >>? ? ? ? ?Peter, >> >>? ? ? ? ?This idea "You could wire an incandescent bulb in place of the fuse >>? ? ? ? ?so you don't keep blowing them.? Find a wattage that will allow the >>? ? ? ? ?supply to boot, but then light >>? ? ? ? ?up when the short occurs" is very interesting. How can I choose the >>? ? ? ? ?appropriate wattage of light? >> >>? ? ? ? ?Thanks, >>? ? ? ? ?Michael >> >>? ? ? ? ?On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 7:05?PM Peter Gottlieb <hpnpilot@...> wrote: >> >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?Could be a lot of things.? The manual is available on the web. >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?At quick glance >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?it seems when the supply is "on" before being enabled, the main >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?transformer and >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?rectifiers are live.? You can verify by measuring at the main >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?electrolytics. >> >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?My guess is something is wrong with the pass elements and the >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?supply crowbars >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?but doesn't limit current and the fuse takes over.? You may be >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?able to max out >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?the crowbar OVP limit and not blow the fuse but that won't solve >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?the problem. >> >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?You could wire an incandescent bulb in place of the fuse so you >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?don't keep >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?blowing them.? Find a wattage that will allow the supply to boot, >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?but then light >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?up when the short occurs. >> >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?Peter >> >> >> >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?On 4/6/2024 9:48 PM, Harvey White wrote: >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> if the fuse blows when activated, then something downstream of >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?the fuse, (once >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> activated) is likely a short. Assuming that the high amperage >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?fuse blows >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> roughly as fast as the low amperage fuse (don't try to measure >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?it......) then >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> you're likely looking at a dead short downstream of the fuse. >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> Harvey >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> On 4/6/2024 7:18 PM, Michael Yellin wrote: >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> Mates, >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> Recently acquired an HP 6643A.? When the unit is plugged in >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?and turned on, it >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> boots, and seems fine. However, as soon as the unit is >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?"activated" to >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> generate voltage and amperage, the glass fuse blows.? I don't >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?have an endless >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> supply of fuses, but I have tried some very low and very high >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?voltage and >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> amperage settings, but that made no difference (I didn't think >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?it would, but >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> well, it made me feel better to try) Opened her up, looked >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?around, and >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> everything appears fine, no burnt parts, no bulging caps, no >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?melted wires, >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> and nothing obviously shorted. Anyone have any ideas what >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?could be wrong, or >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> can send me down a path to try and resurrect the thing. >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> TIA >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> Michael >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> >>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
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Re: HP6643A - Blows Fuse When Activated
Ahhh, I'll look again. Went yesterday, and everything I saw was LED.? I'll look at appliance bulbs in particular.? Are halogen considered incondescent?
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On Sat, Apr 13, 2024, 5:15?PM Peter Gottlieb < hpnpilot@...> wrote: They sell them in the local Home Depot, appliance bulbs and halogens bulbs.
On 4/13/2024 6:23 PM, Michael Yellin wrote:
> I can't believe how difficult it is to find an incandescent bulb.? Gotta wait
> to get one from Ebay.
>
> On Mon, Apr 8, 2024, 9:27?PM Michael Yellin via <>
> <michaelhq54=[email protected]> wrote:
>
>? ? ?Will do.? Thanks for the offer, I plan to take you up on it.
>
>? ? ?On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 4:43?PM Peter Gottlieb <hpnpilot@...> wrote:
>
>? ? ? ? ?Try starting with a 60 Watt incandescent.
>
>? ? ? ? ?If you need help troubleshooting the supply I would be happy to assist.
>
>? ? ? ? ?Peter
>
>>? ? ? ? ?On Apr 8, 2024, at 7:33?PM, Michael Yellin <michaelhq54@...> wrote:
>>
>>? ? ? ? ??
>>? ? ? ? ?Peter,
>>
>>? ? ? ? ?This idea "You could wire an incandescent bulb in place of the fuse
>>? ? ? ? ?so you don't keep blowing them.? Find a wattage that will allow the
>>? ? ? ? ?supply to boot, but then light
>>? ? ? ? ?up when the short occurs" is very interesting. How can I choose the
>>? ? ? ? ?appropriate wattage of light?
>>
>>? ? ? ? ?Thanks,
>>? ? ? ? ?Michael
>>
>>? ? ? ? ?On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 7:05?PM Peter Gottlieb <hpnpilot@...> wrote:
>>
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?Could be a lot of things.? The manual is available on the web.?
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?At quick glance
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?it seems when the supply is "on" before being enabled, the main
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?transformer and
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?rectifiers are live.? You can verify by measuring at the main
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?electrolytics.
>>
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?My guess is something is wrong with the pass elements and the
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?supply crowbars
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?but doesn't limit current and the fuse takes over.? You may be
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?able to max out
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?the crowbar OVP limit and not blow the fuse but that won't solve
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?the problem.
>>
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?You could wire an incandescent bulb in place of the fuse so you
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?don't keep
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?blowing them.? Find a wattage that will allow the supply to boot,
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?but then light
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?up when the short occurs.
>>
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?Peter
>>
>>
>>
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?On 4/6/2024 9:48 PM, Harvey White wrote:
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> if the fuse blows when activated, then something downstream of
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?the fuse, (once
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> activated) is likely a short.? Assuming that the high amperage
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?fuse blows
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> roughly as fast as the low amperage fuse (don't try to measure
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?it......) then
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> you're likely looking at a dead short downstream of the fuse.
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> Harvey
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?> On 4/6/2024 7:18 PM, Michael Yellin wrote:
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> Mates,
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>>
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> Recently acquired an HP 6643A.? When the unit is plugged in
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?and turned on, it
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> boots, and seems fine.? However, as soon as the unit is
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?"activated" to
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> generate voltage and amperage, the glass fuse blows.? I don't
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?have an endless
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> supply of fuses, but I have tried some very low and very high
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?voltage and
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> amperage settings, but that made no difference (I didn't think
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?it would, but
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> well, it made me feel better to try) Opened her up, looked
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?around, and
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> everything appears fine, no burnt parts, no bulging caps, no
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?melted wires,
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> and nothing obviously shorted. Anyone have any ideas what
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?could be wrong, or
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> can send me down a path to try and resurrect the thing.
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>>
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> TIA
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>> Michael
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>>
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>
>>? ? ? ? ? ? ?>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: HP6643A - Blows Fuse When Activated
They sell them in the local Home Depot, appliance bulbs and halogens bulbs.
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Show quoted text
On 4/13/2024 6:23 PM, Michael Yellin wrote: I can't believe how difficult it is to find an incandescent bulb.? Gotta wait to get one from Ebay.
On Mon, Apr 8, 2024, 9:27?PM Michael Yellin via groups.io <> <michaelhq54@...> wrote:
Will do.? Thanks for the offer, I plan to take you up on it.
On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 4:43?PM Peter Gottlieb <hpnpilot@...> wrote:
Try starting with a 60 Watt incandescent.
If you need help troubleshooting the supply I would be happy to assist.
Peter
On Apr 8, 2024, at 7:33?PM, Michael Yellin <michaelhq54@...> wrote:
? Peter,
This idea "You could wire an incandescent bulb in place of the fuse so you don't keep blowing them.? Find a wattage that will allow the supply to boot, but then light up when the short occurs" is very interesting. How can I choose the appropriate wattage of light?
Thanks, Michael
On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 7:05?PM Peter Gottlieb <hpnpilot@...> wrote:
Could be a lot of things.? The manual is available on the web.? At quick glance it seems when the supply is "on" before being enabled, the main transformer and rectifiers are live.? You can verify by measuring at the main electrolytics.
My guess is something is wrong with the pass elements and the supply crowbars but doesn't limit current and the fuse takes over.? You may be able to max out the crowbar OVP limit and not blow the fuse but that won't solve the problem.
You could wire an incandescent bulb in place of the fuse so you don't keep blowing them.? Find a wattage that will allow the supply to boot, but then light up when the short occurs.
Peter
On 4/6/2024 9:48 PM, Harvey White wrote: > if the fuse blows when activated, then something downstream of the fuse, (once > activated) is likely a short.? Assuming that the high amperage fuse blows > roughly as fast as the low amperage fuse (don't try to measure it......) then > you're likely looking at a dead short downstream of the fuse. > > Harvey > > On 4/6/2024 7:18 PM, Michael Yellin wrote: >> Mates, >> >> Recently acquired an HP 6643A.? When the unit is plugged in and turned on, it >> boots, and seems fine.? However, as soon as the unit is "activated" to >> generate voltage and amperage, the glass fuse blows.? I don't have an endless >> supply of fuses, but I have tried some very low and very high voltage and >> amperage settings, but that made no difference (I didn't think it would, but >> well, it made me feel better to try) Opened her up, looked around, and >> everything appears fine, no burnt parts, no bulging caps, no melted wires, >> and nothing obviously shorted. Anyone have any ideas what could be wrong, or >> can send me down a path to try and resurrect the thing. >> >> TIA >> Michael >> > > > > > >
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Re: HP8568B battery replacement
On April 13, 2024 4:24:42 PM "Gianni Becattini via groups.io" <Giovanni.becattini@...> wrote: Hi, you make me happy! I am writing them just for myself but is wonderful to know that someone else read and appreciate them! I read every page! Wonderful stuff. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: HP6643A - Blows Fuse When Activated
I can't believe how difficult it is to find an incandescent bulb.? Gotta wait to get one from Ebay.
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Show quoted text
On Mon, Apr 8, 2024, 9:27?PM Michael Yellin via <michaelhq54= [email protected]> wrote: Will do.? Thanks for the offer, I plan to take you up on it.
On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 4:43?PM Peter Gottlieb < hpnpilot@...> wrote: Try starting with a 60 Watt incandescent.?
If you need help troubleshooting the supply I would be happy to assist.? ? Peter,
This idea "You could wire an incandescent bulb in place of the fuse so you don't keep blowing them.? Find a wattage that will allow the supply to boot, but then light up when the short occurs" is very interesting.? How can I choose the appropriate wattage of light???
Thanks, Michael On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 7:05?PM Peter Gottlieb < hpnpilot@...> wrote: Could be a lot of things.? The manual is available on the web.? At quick glance
it seems when the supply is "on" before being enabled, the main transformer and
rectifiers are live.? You can verify by measuring at the main electrolytics.
My guess is something is wrong with the pass elements and the supply crowbars
but doesn't limit current and the fuse takes over.? You may be able to max out
the crowbar OVP limit and not blow the fuse but that won't solve the problem.
You could wire an incandescent bulb in place of the fuse so you don't keep
blowing them.? Find a wattage that will allow the supply to boot, but then light
up when the short occurs.
Peter
On 4/6/2024 9:48 PM, Harvey White wrote:
> if the fuse blows when activated, then something downstream of the fuse, (once
> activated) is likely a short.? Assuming that the high amperage fuse blows
> roughly as fast as the low amperage fuse (don't try to measure it......) then
> you're likely looking at a dead short downstream of the fuse.
>
> Harvey
>
> On 4/6/2024 7:18 PM, Michael Yellin wrote:
>> Mates,
>>
>> Recently acquired an HP 6643A.? When the unit is plugged in and turned on, it
>> boots, and seems fine.? However, as soon as the unit is "activated" to
>> generate voltage and amperage, the glass fuse blows.? I don't have an endless
>> supply of fuses, but I have tried some very low and very high voltage and
>> amperage settings, but that made no difference (I didn't think it would, but
>> well, it made me feel better to try)? Opened her up, looked around, and
>> everything appears fine, no burnt parts, no bulging caps, no melted wires,
>> and nothing obviously shorted.? Anyone have any ideas what could be wrong, or
>> can send me down a path to try and resurrect the thing.
>>
>> TIA
>> Michael
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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I wonder if the CPU card from a 8753E or 8753ES with same number will work if the correct firmware is downloaded. I have one 8720ES that does not boot fully. If adding a 8753E CPU board it boots but as 8753E that will not work of course to do different HW,
The last firmware version for the "E" was 7.48. If you want the 08753-60272 CPU board to work in a "ES", you will have to load FW 7.6 or higher. The final FW version for the ES was 7.74. Vladan
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Re: HP8568B battery replacement
> I am not sure about my 8568B and > why it had two batteries >
The model 8568A uses the calculator-style battery, the 8568B doesn¡¯t. AFAIK, it has a Li battery on the CPU pcb.? A field upgrade was available and I guess that¡¯s what happened to your 8568B.
Raymond
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Re: HP8568B battery replacement
Hi, you make me happy! I am writing them just for myself but is wonderful to know that someone else read and appreciate them!
I am not sure about my 8568B and why it had two batteries, but the old one (that calculator style) was not going to anything. Maybe someone changed the board with a new one.
Thanks again
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Il giorno 11 apr 2024, alle ore 14:42, Raymond Domp Frank via groups.io <hewpatek@...> ha scritto:
On Thu, Apr 11, 2024 at 10:57 AM, Gianni Becattini wrote:
My had both, but I concluded that the big one (HP-67 style) was not used, so I changed only that on board and it works. Hi Gianni, I'm one of the many that have admired your beautiful books from the beginning but haven't posted about that.
As regards your above post, I'm not sure what you mean by "both": Two NiCds? BTW, the HP-67 also uses the smaller 3-cell (HP-35 style) battery, the HP-97 (and HP-91) use the bigger, 4-cell type.
Raymond
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Source of measurements HP54542C
My 54542-97049 manual does not properly cover my 54542C DSO. For making measurement, for example, I press the blue button then turn the Entry knob to the source. However they don't say what that means. The selections are C, F, and M. Selecting C then entering 1 works for Channel 1 so I guess that C stands for Channel. Selecting F or M gives an error that the "Memory" is not turned on. Which memory? How do I turn on the Memory and what are these other setting used for? M probably means Memory? How do I use it? What does F stand for and how do I use it. Recall>Clr gives an error. Recall 0 goes back to previous. Blue>Clr Meas clears all the measurements but can they be cleared individually? Is there a better user manual?
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OT: low volt wiring, supercaps (was: unusual 3400a)
On 4/13/24 09:13, Ron wrote: In general I've found that test gear that accepts 48VDC +-xx were made for telco's for use in central offices. We've started to get electricians doing a little tiny bit of DC, and then there are the solar installers... Datacenters use DC some. Quick survey: Who would put some DC wiring in their house to be able to use solar PV to run things like computers? Do you think supercaps would be useful near the loads, if they gave you ability to do a burst of power above average, or would you demand computer power be grid available 100%? Is it still too much work or don't care?
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Gary,
In general I've found that test gear that accepts 48VDC +-xx were made for telco's for use in central offices.? The model # usually has a prefix or suffix. These ran off the 48VDC power plant. Care is sometimes required to double check the ground / common connections before using.
Ron
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By sheer chance I came across this amazing little vintage film pretty much precisely on the subject under discussion here. It's a great refresher for those of us who don't delve into this topic on a frequent enough basis to be thoroughly familiar with the principles involved:
These old films are the *best* in my view.
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Re: Fume extractor recommendation
If I have to remind everyone, he's soldering in a garage in California! That door does open.
He could also move his soldering station onto a rolling cart and add in an extension cord. Push that unit out to lift some circuit board pads, dodge the rosin smoke, and then roll back in.
I'm pretty sure Steve Wozniak and his buddies did lots of Apple 1 soldering in a San Jose garage, and he's fine. If I had his money, I would burn mine.. ??
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In case there's anyone else still confused about tip capacitance vs frequency, I've again posted up the Rp and Xp plot from Tektronix for one of their old x10 scope probes. If you look at the Xp trace, the downward slope isn't a perfect straight line. There's a knee in it at about 25MHz if you look along the line. The slope is less above this point. This means the Cp (parallel capacitance at the tip) is falling at frequencies above about 25MHz in this case. If the capacitance was the same at all frequencies the slope would be constant. It clearly isn't constant. Often, the tip capacitance Cp falls to about 60-70% of the capacitance it shows at lower frequencies. 
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Re: HP 427A no DC offset adj. pot
Beautiful work David. I¡¯ve downloaded it and will print it out shortly (I prefer paper). I¡¯ll also post a link to it in the thread over at Antiqueradios. Thank you again,
³¢±ð´Ç²Ô¡
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Re: WTB: 8350B extension cables
Hi James,
these are the parts that I have for the HP8350.
If you are interested make me an offer.
Shipping from Canary Islands.
73, Rainer EA8DMF
Am 13.04.2024 um 06:35 schrieb James Morris (W7TXT):
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I'm looking for the sweeper extension cables used for
servicing plugins. The HP part numbers are:?
- 08350-60034 (64-pin centronics / 57 series / micro-ribbon
cable)
- 08350-60035 (DCM 21WA4F/S with coax)
If anyone has these or equivalent, please let me know.
James W7TXT
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Re: Fume extractor recommendation
I'm gonna chime in on this insanity.? I prefer the M40A2 Field Protective Mask as it allows a left or right side can, as opposed to center mounted can. Better to get a cheek weld see what your soldering. You can also go with a tankers snorkel, or snuffleupagus. 3M half masks and acid vapour filters work exceptionally well, as I have used them while sterilizing clean rooms with Peridox (mix of hydrogen peroxide and peracetic acid strong enough to hit your throat like CS) Oh, and Yuengling is superior. best black and tan I ever had was Guinness and yueng. Also, fans. Who doesn't have a stockpile of fans at this point?
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