Dave - Thanks.
I didn't think to take a look at the 437 and I did assume that the 438 was an upgrade on the 437 - wrong I guess. I really do like my 438s except for the inconvenience of entering the cal factor each time.
Cheers!
Bruce
Quoting Dave McGuire <mcguire@...>:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 9/1/22 23:45, Bruce wrote:
I currently use HP 438 power meters and am considering upgrading.? Main driver fo upgrade is I'm getting sick of having to enter the cal factor for each frequency measurement.? I would like the replacement to be a dual channel device.
I know that latter versions of HP power meters permit entering correction tables for use with the 848X power sensors.? What would the group recommend?
Some relevant questions:
1) How hard is it to tell the PM what frequency entry to use?
2) Do any of the PMs accept an analog voltage to determine the frequency correction (that would really be fun)
3) Any known problems to look out for The E4417/E4418 power meters have come down in price, and are very nice. They will also use the later series of sensor heads that store the calibration factors in an EEPROM in the head, which are read out by the meter and applied. You can also use the more common 84xx heads that only have the calibration factors printed on them, not stored within them, and you enter the table manually into the meter's NVRAM. Then you select the measurement frequency and it will apply the calibration factor automatically, with interpolation.
The 437B cannot read the calibration factor table from the newer sensor heads, but you can enter the table via the front panel or GPIB. It can store ten tables for ten different sensors.
My main bench instrument now is an E4417A, which I really like. The display is excellent; in some modes it will display LARGE digits which you can read across a room.
For years I used a 437B, which I still have and use occasionally in another area. Everyone complains about the display, I don't have a problem with it myself, I just don't try to use it in the dark. The design shares many attributes (and possibly components) with the 5384/5385 frequency counters, 3468/3478 DMMs, etc, so if you have one of those, you know what the display is like.
I've not looked it up, but I'm willing to bet the 437B was designed well after the 438A. While I think the 438A is a fine design in nearly all respects, everything about it seems older than the 437B. Older display and button styles, less-featureful firmware (lack of sensor calibration table storage and interpolation) etc.
I've never seen a feature by which an analog input voltage can set the correction factor.
I have every model of HP RF power meter, including the VXI and MSS models. If you'd like specific info on behaviors/features/etc on any of them that aren't covered by the documentation, don't hesitate to ask.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Re: How do you decipher HP serial numbers for date.
On Thu, Sep 1, 2022, 05:54 Mikek < amdx@...> wrote: I recently bought an HP 3400A, and want to get a build date and also find the proper schematic for repair.
?Is there a site that tells how to decipher the serial number?
For most HP instruments (pre 2000), the serial number doesn't tell you the build date. The first four digits are YY and WW, where YY is the number of years since 1960 and WW is the week. However, that's not when it was built; that's the production series. During production they only updated the YYWW when there was a significant production change, requiring updated information or procedures in the service manual.
Corvallis Division (calculators) and some 1980s+ computer stuff are exceptions, where due to high production volume, they actually update YYWW every week rather than only in changes. AFAIK, that was not done on any HP instruments during the lifetime of that serial number scheme. With Agilent and Keysight things changed.
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Re: How do you decipher HP serial numbers for date.
Greetings,
FWIW the 606A/B is listed in the 1967 HP catalog. ?Some of the schematics in my 606 manual show a copyright of 1965.
Regards,
Ken
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Show quoted text
On 1Sep, 2022, at 9:07 PM, Jeremy Nichols < jn6wfo@...> wrote:
I¡¯m trying to figure out the serial number of my HP-606A Signal Generator, which is 960-13478. The interpretation I¡¯ve always been told is that this instrument¡¯s design was finalized in the 60th week of 1969! How is that possible??
Another example: my HP-412A carries serial number 0978A19963. 78th week of 1969? A third example: the 3444A DC Multi-function plug-in for my 3440A DVM ?carries serial number 0973A07281. There must be some additional information we¡¯re missing. ?
On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 7:29 PM Jim Adney < jadney@...> wrote: On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 12:17 PM, Mikek wrote:
I have two meters both older I know because of the AC plug.
?HP 3400A # 806-08346
HP 400E # 0949A11285
Looking at your numbers, as well as those of my older HP instruments, it's clear that HP did not start inserting the central letter (country) code right away. It appears that the new scheme that started in 1960 was yww-sssss. It looks like the central country code letter was introduced sometime in '68 or '69, and this may have happened at the same time HP added the leading zero, knowing that 1970 would require it.
It's important to understand that the date, year and week, denotes the date the (new or revised) design was finalized. It's not the build date. It also seems clear that the sequential serial number restarted at 00101 each time the serial prefix (date code) changed. It should also be noted that the serial prefix need not be unique to a particular HP model; it's conceivable that two different design teams could finalize on the same week. As HPs catalog grew, this must have happened often.
There's one (maybe more) exception to this: On HP pocket calculators, the date code IS the year and week of manufacture.
So the design of your 3400A was finalized in the 6th week of 1968, and likewise your 400E was based on the design of week 49 of 1969. If you're looking for a manual for your instrument, it's important to get one that covers your serial prefix. Manuals will often have backdating info as well as update sheets for later instruments. You can look at the serial prefixes for this instrument and bracket the date when yours must have been made.
One of the important things to understand is how many design revisions some of HPs products got. This was especially true of popular instruments which had long production lifetimes like the 200CD, 3400A, and all the various versions of the 400.
-- Jeremy Nichols
6.
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On 9/2/22 08:51, John Griessen wrote: So when you want two powers readable at the same time nevermind... Your fave the E4417A does two channels...
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On 9/2/22 08:30, Dave McGuire wrote: ? I have every model of HP RF power meter, including the VXI and MSS models. So when you want two powers readable at the same time, do you use two E4417/E4418 power meters?
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On 9/2/22 09:47, Matt Huszagh wrote: Does the 438 not permit you to store sensor cal factor tables? The 437 supports this and you can simply enter the frequency; the 437 will then choose the corresponding cal factor or interpolate as needed. I always thought of the 438 as a two-channel upgrade to the 437.
I'm a bit surprised HP wouldn't have incorporated this pretty basic feature into the 438. See my previous email on this; I don't know for sure but I'm willing to bet that the 438 was not the successor to the 437. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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On 9/1/22 23:45, Bruce wrote: I currently use HP 438 power meters and am considering upgrading.? Main driver fo upgrade is I'm getting sick of having to enter the cal factor for each frequency measurement.? I would like the replacement to be a dual channel device.
I know that latter versions of HP power meters permit entering correction tables for use with the 848X power sensors.? What would the group recommend?
Some relevant questions:
1) How hard is it to tell the PM what frequency entry to use?
2) Do any of the PMs accept an analog voltage to determine the frequency correction (that would really be fun)
3) Any known problems to look out for The E4417/E4418 power meters have come down in price, and are very nice. They will also use the later series of sensor heads that store the calibration factors in an EEPROM in the head, which are read out by the meter and applied. You can also use the more common 84xx heads that only have the calibration factors printed on them, not stored within them, and you enter the table manually into the meter's NVRAM. Then you select the measurement frequency and it will apply the calibration factor automatically, with interpolation. The 437B cannot read the calibration factor table from the newer sensor heads, but you can enter the table via the front panel or GPIB. It can store ten tables for ten different sensors. My main bench instrument now is an E4417A, which I really like. The display is excellent; in some modes it will display LARGE digits which you can read across a room. For years I used a 437B, which I still have and use occasionally in another area. Everyone complains about the display, I don't have a problem with it myself, I just don't try to use it in the dark. The design shares many attributes (and possibly components) with the 5384/5385 frequency counters, 3468/3478 DMMs, etc, so if you have one of those, you know what the display is like. I've not looked it up, but I'm willing to bet the 437B was designed well after the 438A. While I think the 438A is a fine design in nearly all respects, everything about it seems older than the 437B. Older display and button styles, less-featureful firmware (lack of sensor calibration table storage and interpolation) etc. I've never seen a feature by which an analog input voltage can set the correction factor. I have every model of HP RF power meter, including the VXI and MSS models. If you'd like specific info on behaviors/features/etc on any of them that aren't covered by the documentation, don't hesitate to ask. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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The 438A does not provide a way to store a cal factor and corresponding frequency for recall at a later time - This also means that it won't do the cal factor estimation for frequencies between cal factor points.
That was one of the reasons that I kept my 437 until I was able to move to an E4418B - I keep a 438A around for those times when I need a dual channel and just live with the need to enter the factors when measuring.
TonyG
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Does the 438 not permit you to store sensor cal factor tables? The 437 supports this and you can simply enter the frequency; the 437 will then choose the corresponding cal factor or interpolate as needed. I always thought of the 438 as a two-channel upgrade to the 437.
I'm a bit surprised HP wouldn't have incorporated this pretty basic feature into the 438.
Matt
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Re: How do you decipher HP serial numbers for date.
On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 05:25 AM, Adrian Godwin wrote:
> There's one (maybe more) exception to this: On HP pocket calculators, the date code?IS?the year and week of manufacture.
I don't think that's true, at least not universally.
I have several HP35s with the date code 1143 and it appears many were made with this number - too many for a week's batch, I think.
ref : http://www.vintagecalculators.com/html/the_hp-35_calculator.html
I'm the one who went out on a limb with that statement. I don't have any direct knowledge of this; my understanding is based on an email conversation I had with the owners of . I had emailed them to try to explain how I thought the HP serial prefix coded the year and week of design finalization, and they claimed that this was not true in the case of handheld HP calculators. I took their word for it. It seems quite possible that early calculator production followed the established HP pattern, but later production might have changed. Your HP-35s are quite early, while mine are much later. But both of mine share a common serial prefix, 1346A. I agree that the sequential numbers, 12108 &?15956, seem too high for one week's production. OTOH, I have two HP-45s, with serial prefixes that differ by 1: 1349A and 1350A. The sequential serial numbers, 16002 &?34910, make me wonder if the prefix changed but the sequential serial numbers continued uninterrupted. Does anyone know how many calculators HP could produce in a week? Bonus question: What 3 key combination press does what on an HP-35? Likewise for the HP-45? (Note: it takes practice to be able to depress all 3 keys at exactly the same time.)
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I never knew about this model.? I have been using the 436A and bought a 437A which I believe can have the Cal factors entered, but I don't like the LCD display so do not use it.? Why did HP make the 438A with LED display?? Is it newer than the 437A?
On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 11:45 PM Bruce < bruce@...> wrote: I currently use HP 438 power meters and am considering upgrading.? Main driver fo upgrade is I'm getting sick of having to enter the cal factor for each frequency measurement.? I would like the replacement to be a dual channel device.
I know that latter versions of HP power meters permit entering correction tables for use with the 848X power sensors.? What would the group recommend?
Some relevant questions:
1) How hard is it to tell the PM what frequency entry to use?
2) Do any of the PMs accept an analog voltage to determine the frequency correction (that would really be fun)
3) Any known problems to look out for
Cheers!
Bruce
|
Re: How do you decipher HP serial numbers for date.
Most of my collection has numbers below ¡°52,¡± so I agree the larger numbers are rare.?
Also note that all of my examples are 1969 ¡°models.¡± I wonder if HP went with your ¡°Possibility A¡± in order to keep the old serial number format for stuff started in 1969??
On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 5:06 AM Jim Adney < jadney@...> wrote: On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:07 PM, Jeremy Nichols wrote:
my HP-412A carries serial number 0978A19963. 78th week of 1969? A third example: the 3444A DC Multi-function plug-in for my 3440A DVM ?carries serial number 0973A07281. There must be some additional information we¡¯re missing. ?
Others have mentioned similar examples, and I have to admit that I don't know, but I can suggest two possibilities:
Possibility One: Some projects that HP started in a given year but ran into the next year, might have been given a year code in the year the project was started, or mostly associated with, in order to keep clear what year the project "belonged to." So the week designation would have been 52 + the following year's week. I would expect this to be a rather rare exception to the rule.
Possibility Two: HP wasn't really counting weeks, they were counting something smaller. Suppose you thought one day was too small an increment, plus it requires 3 digits to count up to 365. Dividing the year into weeks gives 52, which only takes 2 digits, but doesn't make good use of those 2 digits. Dividing the year into 5 day increments gets us up to 73 divisions per year, which makes good use of 2 digits but still leaves out both of your examples above. Dividing the year into 4 day increments gets us 91 divisions per day, which makes VERY good use of 2 digits. Since calendars that show the number of days from the start of the year were common back then, this might have seemed awkward, but it would have been easy to figure.
Personally, I lean toward Possibility One. Does anyone have examples of week codes above 78 or above 91? The week code on each of my HP instruments is less than 52.?
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Re: How do you decipher HP serial numbers for date.
On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:45 PM, <n8zmTWH@...> wrote:
Never heard that part of it before. So who bought the first A models?
It's still possible that Disney bought his "special" B models before any A models had been sold.
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Re: How do you decipher HP serial numbers for date.
On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:07 PM, Jeremy Nichols wrote:
my HP-412A carries serial number 0978A19963. 78th week of 1969? A third example: the 3444A DC Multi-function plug-in for my 3440A DVM ?carries serial number 0973A07281. There must be some additional information we¡¯re missing. ?
Others have mentioned similar examples, and I have to admit that I don't know, but I can suggest two possibilities: Possibility One: Some projects that HP started in a given year but ran into the next year, might have been given a year code in the year the project was started, or mostly associated with, in order to keep clear what year the project "belonged to." So the week designation would have been 52 + the following year's week. I would expect this to be a rather rare exception to the rule. Possibility Two: HP wasn't really counting weeks, they were counting something smaller. Suppose you thought one day was too small an increment, plus it requires 3 digits to count up to 365. Dividing the year into weeks gives 52, which only takes 2 digits, but doesn't make good use of those 2 digits. Dividing the year into 5 day increments gets us up to 73 divisions per year, which makes good use of 2 digits but still leaves out both of your examples above. Dividing the year into 4 day increments gets us 91 divisions per day, which makes VERY good use of 2 digits. Since calendars that show the number of days from the start of the year were common back then, this might have seemed awkward, but it would have been easy to figure. Personally, I lean toward Possibility One. Does anyone have examples of week codes above 78 or above 91? The week code on each of my HP instruments is less than 52.?
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Re: How do you decipher HP serial numbers for date.
> There's one (maybe more) exception to this: On HP pocket calculators, the date code?IS?the year and week of manufacture.
I don't think that's true, at least not universally.
I have several HP35s with the date code 1143 and it appears many were made with this number - too many for a week's batch, I think.
ref : http://www.vintagecalculators.com/html/the_hp-35_calculator.html
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Re: Hp 8590a spectrum analyzer
Yes it's a 50 ohm terminator, not sure if it matters but I bought a 4 pack of NOS HP 50 ohm . I used panasonic? caps. If you need a terminator I'll send you one .
Thanks
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Re: Hp 8590a spectrum analyzer
Interesting! Is there a terminator on the 1st lo output? I do not have one on mine.
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Re: How do you decipher HP serial numbers for date.
Thanks, Jeff -- I'd forgotten about the pricing bit. Time to re-read
the book.
Someone bought the A models, but I've always wondered who that might
have been. Over the years, I've been given two of them, but I have
no 200Bs in my collection. Go figure!
-- Cheers,
Tom
--
Prof. Thomas H. Lee
Allen Ctr., Rm. 205
350 Jane Stanford Way
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4070
On 9/1/2022 21:48, Jeff Kruth via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
IIRC, the story is in "Bill and Dave" a great book
about HP. The A was a mistake in pricing, Bill & Dave
guessed at the price (like $67 or so) and found they couldnt
make any money at that price. Disney came along and because
they wanted "changes" it became a "special", the B model,
and H&P upped the price to cover their collective butt
(like $78.00)....There may not have been many A models
sold.....
Really god book, if you dont have it in your library,
pick up a copy. You will like it!
73
Jeff Kruth
?
In a message dated 9/1/2022 11:45:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
n8zmTWH@... writes:
?
Hi
Tom¡Never heard that part of it before. So who
bought the first A models?
?
?
?
And that was in
addition to calling it the model 200, with an "A"
suffix to boot. Dave Packard was very, very smart.
The model that Disney ended up buying was the 200B, by
the way. The 200A was a 35Hz-35kHz unit. Disney wanted
that shifted downward, to 20Hz-20kHz. Bill Hewlett
made some fast tweaks, and the 200B was shipped off to
a happy Disney.
--Cheers,
Tom
--
Prof. Thomas H. Lee
Allen Ctr., Rm. 205
350 Jane Stanford Way
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4070
The story goes that the first HP
product was the 200A audio generator. The serial
numbers started at 1000 so that their first
customer, Disney, wouldn¡¯t think it was the first
product they¡¯d ever built and sold. Disney bought
7 of them to use to calibrate the sound for the
movie Fantasia.
?
Tom, N8ZM
?
?
Trivia: Serial
numbers of the form ¡°09mmXnnnnn¡± can also appear
as ¡°9mm-nnnnn.¡± Such instruments would have been
made in (late, usually) 1969, when the change in
format was underway. I suspect this was a
practical matter: serial number tags would have
been ordered in quantity and in advance of
production. Production management, if several
hundred of the old serial tags were in stock,
would lean towards using up the old ones before
bearing the expense of ordering new ones.?
?
On Thu, Sep 1,
2022 at 10:17 AM Mikek <amdx@...>
wrote:
I have two
meters both older I know because of the AC
plug.
?HP 3400A # 806-08346
HP 400E # 0949A11285
??? Thanks, Mikek
PS, I knew I saw a thread about this, I
checked several groups I frequent and couldn't
find it.
?
????????????
--
?
|
Re: How do you decipher HP serial numbers for date.
IIRC, the story is in "Bill and Dave" a great book about HP. The A was a mistake in pricing, Bill & Dave guessed at the price (like $67 or so) and found they couldnt make any money at that price. Disney came along and because they wanted "changes" it became a "special", the B model, and H&P upped the price to cover their collective butt (like $78.00)....There may not have been many A models sold.....
Really god book, if you dont have it in your library, pick up a copy. You will like it!
73
Jeff Kruth
?
In a message dated 9/1/2022 11:45:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, n8zmTWH@... writes:
?
Hi Tom¡Never heard that part of it before. So who bought the first A models?
?
?
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Tom Lee Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2022 11:41 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] How do you decipher HP serial numbers for date.
?
And that was in addition to calling it the model 200, with an "A" suffix to boot. Dave Packard was very, very smart.
The model that Disney ended up buying was the 200B, by the way. The 200A was a 35Hz-35kHz unit. Disney wanted that shifted downward, to 20Hz-20kHz. Bill Hewlett made some fast tweaks, and the 200B was shipped off to a happy Disney.
--Cheers,
Tom
--
Prof. Thomas H. Lee
Allen Ctr., Rm. 205
350 Jane Stanford Way
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4070
The story goes that the first HP product was the 200A audio generator. The serial numbers started at 1000 so that their first customer, Disney, wouldn¡¯t think it was the first product they¡¯d ever built and sold. Disney bought 7 of them to use to calibrate the sound for the movie Fantasia.
?
Tom, N8ZM
?
?
Trivia: Serial numbers of the form ¡°09mmXnnnnn¡± can also appear as ¡°9mm-nnnnn.¡± Such instruments would have been made in (late, usually) 1969, when the change in format was underway. I suspect this was a practical matter: serial number tags would have been ordered in quantity and in advance of production. Production management, if several hundred of the old serial tags were in stock, would lean towards using up the old ones before bearing the expense of ordering new ones.?
?
On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 10:17 AM Mikek <amdx@...> wrote:
I have two meters both older I know because of the AC plug.
?HP 3400A # 806-08346
HP 400E # 0949A11285
??? Thanks, Mikek
PS, I knew I saw a thread about this, I checked several groups I frequent and couldn't find it.
?
????????????
--
?
|
Seeking a HP 70000 module retainer screw casting
I just received a HP 70001A Mainframe containing 70841B Pattern Generator and 70311A 3.3GHz Clock Source modules.
On the USA leg of its journey to Australia it was poorly packed and the box dropped heavily enough
to shatter one of the diecast metal module retaining screw-nuts. The 8mm hex socket things.
See pic.
Does anyone have one of these screw things to spare? For how much?
Guy
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Dave McGuire
Jeremy Nichols
Anders
Guy Dunphy
