Re: SMD rework on an HP PCB
VFD? A search shows Variable Frequency Drive but since I have played with Nixies and Numitrons maybe it is Vacuum Fluorescent Display. I wish people would define the first instance of an acronym. Some have dozens of meanings.
On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 8:07 PM Stan < swperk@...> wrote: Turns out that it's the VFD in my 58503A that is bad, and not the driver chip.
The good news is that I don't have to do any PCB rework. The bad news is that I have to find a replacement VFD at a reasonable price.
Any ideas (besides eBay)? And if I do end up buying on eBay, does anyone have any experience with replacement VFDs from China?
Thanks,
Stan
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8662A: what is behind options 043 and W55?
I am wondering what is behind the options 043 and W55 of my 8662A (S/N prefix 2936) and I would be glad if somebody is out there who could tell.
Thanks!
Chris
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Re: SMD rework on an HP PCB
On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 at 01:47, Stan < swperk@...> wrote: After finding no replacement VFDs under $230 plus tax on eBay, I located a company called PDA Parts that has the Samsung INB-12MM53T VFD in stock. It's the latest iteration of the 53132A display and their photo confirms that it's the correct one. It's "only" $108, but I have no other options so it seems. Anyway, one should be arriving sometime this week or early next week.
I hope that's the only problem, but I'm pretty sure it is. There will be either screams of delight or screams of anguish after I install the new display and power it up!
Stan
I don't know about VFDs, but I once ordered an LCD from Keysight with the same part number as the one I had which was damaged. The two LCDs looked quite different on the PCB, but had the same part number. So I replaced the LCD, only to find it did not work. Later Keysight confirmed that I would need to replace at least the front panel keyboard and GPIB board to get the newer model LCD to work. That would have been uneconomic. Luckily they refunded me the cost of the LCD, and told me to keep it.
I have in the past noticed other times where Agilent have made important changes to items, but kept the part number the same. For example, some VNA verification kits have the same part number for the foam insert for a box, but do not fit. Having had this problem a couple of times, Keysight said I needed to buy a new box with foam. I declined, as it was so expensive, so they gave me one free. But then I found the airlines would not fit in the new foam insert.
It seems some part numbers are more equal than others, and just because a part has the same part number as something else, don't assume it will work.
Dave
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Hi Gene, ? I have a working unit and its setting is as show in attached photos. If you follow the same setting and 70900 still not show up then you may have hardware issue¡ I am just a normal user, if this does not help you, then you may have to wait someone who has hardware knowledge to help you! Good luck! ? Steve
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Thanks Steve, ? The as-found is shown on the right¡so I tried the settings in Figure 2.4 ?as shown below¡ still no cigar¡70900A still MIA ON Map? ? 
?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Steve Cheng
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2021 4:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?? Hi Gene, ? I believe you may have wrong ¡°HP-MSIB/HP-IB Address¡± setting on your 70900 unit. The plug-in unit on the address map is based on their hardware MSIB/HP-IB Address setting not by default! ? Steve Cheng BC Canada ? ?
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Craig, ? Yeh that¡¯s what I¡¯m circling on also. Thanks for the manual.? I¡¯ve converted this to a text searchable document that you may find useful, see attachment. From what I understand at this point the configuration was duplicated per Figure 2.4 from what was found shown on right below. Power on restart¡ no change, no cigar. So the next step is a deep dive into the PS board, which like the TV show Cold Case File will have to be done unpowered or cold absent extender cables. ? Are schematics available on site or at Artec? ? Again thanks for your help ? Regards ? Gene ? 
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Craig Petersen Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2021 5:58 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen? ? Gene,
The cabling looks correct between the modules according to the document I have in front of me. If all the other modules are showing up in the map the 70900A should be there to. The issue seems to be improper dip switch settings or some other unknown fault with the 70900A. I have attached the file for your reference.
Best Regards,
Craig Petersen.
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Hi Dave
The formula is on the spec sheets I have referred to
for example
Equivalent series resistance (ESR) Calculated from tan ¦Ämax. and CR (see
Table 2) ESR = tan ¦Ä/2 ¦Ð f CR
Also it could be we will have to put a higher voltage ratting than was
originally fitted
Regards Paul
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected][mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent: 22 November 2021 02:44 To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen? What formula? -Dave On November 21, 2021 9:24:50 PM "Paul Bicknell" <admin@...> wrote: Hi Vladan
The specs I looked at had a formula that I did not understand
Regards Paul
From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of pianovt via groups.io Sent: 22 November 2021 02:13
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Just a reminder: the supply operates at 40KHz, so search for correct ESR
values in that frequency range.
Vladan
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
What formula? -Dave On November 21, 2021 9:24:50 PM "Paul Bicknell" <admin@...> wrote: Hi Vladan
The specs I looked at had a formula that I did not understand
Regards Paul
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of pianovt via groups.io
Sent: 22 November 2021 02:13
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Just a reminder: the supply operates at 40KHz, so search for correct ESR values in that frequency range.
Vladan
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Exactly, and why there were two alternatives.
I've heard both argued.
if the number and amount of parts to be replaced is minimal, I'd
go with #2, replace them all
if on the other hand, replacing them all is expensive or
bothersome, then I'd think more of replacing the ones that are
bad, however you decide *which* are bad.
If there's a history of multiple failures, then I'd do all of
them.
My point was that neither approach should be done without further
information, depending on failure rate, cost, availability, and so
on.
you pays your money for parts and you does your choices......
so to speak.
Harvey
On 11/21/2021 9:01 PM, Paul Bicknell
wrote:
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Hi
Harvey?
Regarding
?
There's a philosophical point where you say:
1) these might be bad, I'll replace then all.
2) I'll only replace the ones that I know are bad.
?
I agree with line 1 in this case? but ?if they all test with
correct capacitance and low ESR then it might be worth looking
else ware before changing them
It could be that only one capacitor is critical and it wasn¡¯t
man enough for the job in the first place Just a thought?
?
Regards Paul
?
?
?
There's a philosophical point where you say:
1) these might be bad, I'll replace then all.
2) I'll only replace the ones that I know are bad.
To me, it depends on how difficult it would be to replace,
and also what the probability is that all of these could be
bad.
Your pick.? I don't think that there's an absolute "this is
the right way".
Harvey
On 11/21/2021 6:06 PM, Paul Bicknell
wrote:
Hi
Tom
?
Thank
you for looking up the part numbers? please look at the xl
document I have put onto the HP 70900 folder in the HP
70000 on this site
as
I am using it to compare the values of the capacitors
measured in and out of CCT on a number of 70900 units
hopefully
this might help speed up repairing 70900 in the future
?
Vladan I have put a number of Vishay spc
sheets in the same file along with a list of their
suitability? size and availability
?
Regards
Paul
?
?
From the 70900B CLIP:
C32 0180-3068? 470u/12v
C17, C18? 0180-3441? 270u/25v
C52 0180-3443? 560u/7.5v
C43 0180-3068? 470u/12v
C42? 0180-3442? 1200u/12v
AL-ELCTLT
Regards,
Tom
On 11/21/2021 4:34 PM, pianovt via
groups.io wrote:
Paul,
If you (or someone else) can post the HP part numbers for
the capacitors, there is a chance that I may be able to
find out what ESR specs were used when the module was
designed.
Vladan
?
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Hi Vladan ? The specs I looked at had a formula that I did not understand ? Regards Paul ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of pianovt via groups.io
Sent: 22 November 2021 02:13
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen? ? Just a reminder: the supply operates at 40KHz, so search for correct ESR values in that frequency range.
Vladan
|
Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Hi Vladan ? Thank you just going to bed it is 2:30 am hear Dues any one have an contacts at Sprague or Sangamo ? ? Best Regards Paul ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of pianovt via groups.io
Sent: 22 November 2021 02:01
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen? ? Here you go. All are 105C.
================================
C32, C43
0180-3068? 470u/12v
Sprague? 672D477H012DM5J
Sangamo? 301AEM471U012B3
ESR 0.12 Ohm max
Max. ripple current 1.3A
================================
C17, C18
0180-3441? 270u/25v
Sprague? 672D277H025DM5J
Sangamo? 301AEM271U025B3
ESR - sorry, can't find a value.
Max. ripple current 1.35A
================================
C52
0180-3443? 560u/7.5v
Sprague? 672D567H7R5DM5J
Sangamo? 301AEM561U7R5B3
ESR 0.28 Ohm max
===============================
C42
0180-3442? 1200u/12v
Sprague? 672D128H012ET5J
ESR? 0.125 Ohm max
Max. ripple current 2.5A
===============================
Vladan
|
Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Hi Craig ? Thank you for the manual but? all the manuals we currently have are hear and the Clips are with Artek unfortunately I cannot get to my service manuals or CLIPS at this time
[email protected] | Files ? Just a thought it might be useful to put some pictures into a file of the correct switch settings Also I have had switches going open CCT on other HP equipment ? ? Regards Paul ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Craig Petersen
Sent: 22 November 2021 01:58
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen? ? Gene,
The cabling looks correct between the modules according to the document I have in front of me. If all the other modules are showing up in the map the 70900A should be there to. The issue seems to be improper dip switch settings or some other unknown fault with the 70900A. I have attached the file for your reference.
Best Regards,
Craig Petersen.
|
Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Just a reminder: the supply operates at 40KHz, so search for correct ESR values in that frequency range.
Vladan
|
Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
OK Dave and Harvey
They are all going to get shot gunned / replaced we currently have about 8 off 70900 LO that are duff in the UK so a solution that works would be very good
Best Regards Paul
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent: 22 November 2021 01:27 To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen? In the ones I've repaired, every one of those capacitors in that central column have been bad, with no exceptions. Just FYI. Heh, one of them was particularly weird. The lead *twirled* within the capacitor, as if it were connected to nothing at all inside. I put it on a bridge, and it read a few pF. It was supposed to have been 470uF! -Dave On 11/21/21 8:21 PM, Harvey White wrote: There's a philosophical point where you say:
1) these might be bad, I'll replace then all.
2) I'll only replace the ones that I know are bad.
To me, it depends on how difficult it would be to replace, and also
what the probability is that all of these could be bad.
Your pick. I don't think that there's an absolute "this is the right way".
Harvey
On 11/21/2021 6:06 PM, Paul Bicknell wrote:
Hi Tom
Thank you for looking up the part numbers please look at the xl
document I have put onto the HP 70900 folder in the HP 70000 on this
site
as I am using it to compare the values of the capacitors measured in
and out of CCT on a number of 70900 units
hopefully this might help speed up repairing 70900 in the future
Vladan I have put a number of Vishay spc sheets in the same file
along with a list of their suitability size and availability
Regards Paul
*From:*[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of
*tmillermdems
*Sent:* 21 November 2021 22:41
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K
system is old; good or bad omen?
From the 70900B CLIP:
C32 0180-3068 470u/12v
C17, C18 0180-3441 270u/25v
C52 0180-3443 560u/7.5v
C43 0180-3068 470u/12v
C42 0180-3442 1200u/12v
AL-ELCTLT
Regards,
Tom
On 11/21/2021 4:34 PM, pianovt via groups.io wrote:
Paul,
If you (or someone else) can post the HP part numbers for the
capacitors, there is a chance that I may be able to find out what
ESR specs were used when the module was designed.
Vladan
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Hi Harvey? Regarding ? There's a philosophical point where you say: 1) these might be bad, I'll replace then all. 2) I'll only replace the ones that I know are bad. ? I agree with line 1 in this case? but ?if they all test with correct capacitance and low ESR then it might be worth looking else ware before changing them It could be that only one capacitor is critical and it wasn¡¯t man enough for the job in the first place Just a thought? ? Regards Paul ? ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Harvey White
Sent: 22 November 2021 01:21
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?? There's a philosophical point where you say: 1) these might be bad, I'll replace then all. 2) I'll only replace the ones that I know are bad. To me, it depends on how difficult it would be to replace, and also what the probability is that all of these could be bad. Your pick.? I don't think that there's an absolute "this is the right way". Harvey On 11/21/2021 6:06 PM, Paul Bicknell wrote: Hi Tom ? Thank you for looking up the part numbers? please look at the xl document I have put onto the HP 70900 folder in the HP 70000 on this site as I am using it to compare the values of the capacitors measured in and out of CCT on a number of 70900 units hopefully this might help speed up repairing 70900 in the future ? Vladan I have put a number of Vishay spc sheets in the same file along with a list of their suitability? size and availability ? Regards Paul ? ? From the 70900B CLIP: C32 0180-3068? 470u/12v C17, C18? 0180-3441? 270u/25v C52 0180-3443? 560u/7.5v C43 0180-3068? 470u/12v C42? 0180-3442? 1200u/12v AL-ELCTLT Regards, Tom On 11/21/2021 4:34 PM, pianovt via groups.io wrote: Paul,
If you (or someone else) can post the HP part numbers for the capacitors, there is a chance that I may be able to find out what ESR specs were used when the module was designed.
Vladan
?
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Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Here you go. All are 105C.
================================
C32, C43
0180-3068? 470u/12v
Sprague? 672D477H012DM5J
Sangamo? 301AEM471U012B3
ESR 0.12 Ohm max
Max. ripple current 1.3A
================================
C17, C18
0180-3441? 270u/25v
Sprague? 672D277H025DM5J
Sangamo? 301AEM271U025B3
ESR - sorry, can't find a value.
Max. ripple current 1.35A
================================
C52
0180-3443? 560u/7.5v
Sprague? 672D567H7R5DM5J
Sangamo? 301AEM561U7R5B3
ESR 0.28 Ohm max
===============================
C42
0180-3442? 1200u/12v
Sprague? 672D128H012ET5J
ESR? 0.125 Ohm max
Max. ripple current 2.5A
===============================
Vladan
|
Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
Gene,
The cabling looks correct between the modules according to the document I have in front of me. If all the other modules are showing up in the map the 70900A should be there to. The issue seems to be improper dip switch settings or some other unknown fault with the 70900A. I have attached the file for your reference.
Best Regards,
Craig Petersen.
|
Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
sounds like case #1 to me <grin>
I've seen people who say "replace them all"
I've seen people who say "replace only bad"
As a philosophy, neither is likely right.
Harvey
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On 11/21/2021 8:26 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
? In the ones I've repaired, every one of those capacitors in that central column have been bad, with no exceptions.? Just FYI.
? Heh, one of them was particularly weird.? The lead *twirled* within the capacitor, as if it were connected to nothing at all inside.? I put it on a bridge, and it read a few pF.? It was supposed to have been 470uF!
????????? -Dave
On 11/21/21 8:21 PM, Harvey White wrote:
There's a philosophical point where you say:
1) these might be bad, I'll replace then all.
2) I'll only replace the ones that I know are bad.
To me, it depends on how difficult it would be to replace, and also what the probability is that all of these could be bad.
Your pick.? I don't think that there's an absolute "this is the right way".
Harvey
On 11/21/2021 6:06 PM, Paul Bicknell wrote:
Hi Tom
Thank you for looking up the part numbers? please look at the xl document I have put onto the HP 70900 folder in the HP 70000 on this site
as I am using it to compare the values of the capacitors measured in and out of CCT on a number of 70900 units
hopefully this might help speed up repairing 70900 in the future
Vladan I have put a number of Vishay spc sheets in the same file along with a list of their suitability? size and availability
Regards Paul
*From:*[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *tmillermdems
*Sent:* 21 November 2021 22:41
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
From the 70900B CLIP:
C32 0180-3068? 470u/12v
C17, C18? 0180-3441? 270u/25v
C52 0180-3443? 560u/7.5v
C43 0180-3068? 470u/12v
C42? 0180-3442? 1200u/12v
AL-ELCTLT
Regards,
Tom
On 11/21/2021 4:34 PM, pianovt via groups.io wrote:
??? Paul,
??? If you (or someone else) can post the HP part numbers for the
??? capacitors, there is a chance that I may be able to find out what
??? ESR specs were used when the module was designed.
??? Vladan
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Re: SMD rework on an HP PCB
After finding no replacement VFDs under $230 plus tax on eBay, I located a company called PDA Parts that has the Samsung INB-12MM53T VFD in stock. It's the latest iteration of the 53132A display and their photo confirms that it's the correct one. It's "only" $108, but I have no other options so it seems. Anyway, one should be arriving sometime this week or early next week.
I hope that's the only problem, but I'm pretty sure it is. There will be either screams of delight or screams of anguish after I install the new display and power it up!
Stan
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2021 5:14 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] SMD rework on an HP PCB On 11/21/21 8:07 PM, Stan wrote: Turns out that it's the VFD in my 58503A that is bad, and not the
driver chip. Damn. :-( The good news is that I don't have to do any PCB rework. The bad news
is that I have to find a replacement VFD at a reasonable price.
Any ideas (besides eBay)? And if I do end up buying on eBay, does
anyone have any experience with replacement VFDs from China? I have no direct experience with them, but a lot of people have said they are actually pretty good. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Re: I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
In the ones I've repaired, every one of those capacitors in that central column have been bad, with no exceptions. Just FYI.
Heh, one of them was particularly weird. The lead *twirled* within the capacitor, as if it were connected to nothing at all inside. I put it on a bridge, and it read a few pF. It was supposed to have been 470uF!
-Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 11/21/21 8:21 PM, Harvey White wrote: There's a philosophical point where you say:
1) these might be bad, I'll replace then all.
2) I'll only replace the ones that I know are bad.
To me, it depends on how difficult it would be to replace, and also what the probability is that all of these could be bad.
Your pick.? I don't think that there's an absolute "this is the right way".
Harvey
On 11/21/2021 6:06 PM, Paul Bicknell wrote:
Hi Tom
Thank you for looking up the part numbers? please look at the xl document I have put onto the HP 70900 folder in the HP 70000 on this site
as I am using it to compare the values of the capacitors measured in and out of CCT on a number of 70900 units
hopefully this might help speed up repairing 70900 in the future
Vladan I have put a number of Vishay spc sheets in the same file along with a list of their suitability? size and availability
Regards Paul
*From:*[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *tmillermdems
*Sent:* 21 November 2021 22:41
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] I'm old 70+, the 70K system is old; good or bad omen?
From the 70900B CLIP:
C32 0180-3068? 470u/12v
C17, C18? 0180-3441? 270u/25v
C52 0180-3443? 560u/7.5v
C43 0180-3068? 470u/12v
C42? 0180-3442? 1200u/12v
AL-ELCTLT
Regards,
Tom
On 11/21/2021 4:34 PM, pianovt via groups.io wrote:
Paul,
If you (or someone else) can post the HP part numbers for the
capacitors, there is a chance that I may be able to find out what
ESR specs were used when the module was designed.
Vladan
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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Dr. David Kirkby, Kirkby Microwave Ltd
Paul Bicknell
Dave McGuire
Craig Petersen