Re: HP 8566A large amplitude error in 2-22GHz range
If you can demonstrate you have been in contact with the seller , showing dissatisfaction with the purchase, they should not be able to close the case
My view of e-bay is that I dont buy anything unless I'm willing to lose the money, I've never spent more than $20 on a purchase.
Yes I know I'm similar to a Charles Dickens character :)
If you used paypal , you also make a complaint to them as well
Good luck
Richard
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On 07/12/2020 20:27, huszaghmatt@... wrote: Unfortunately, Ebay closed my case because it's after a certain number of days from when I received it (I only just got around to testing it). But, I'm trying to appeal.
Ok, I will perform that test and send the picture.
--
Best wishes /73
Richard Bown
Email : richard@...
HTTP :
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Ham Call: G8JVM . QRV: 50-432 MHz + Microwave
Maidenhead QRA: IO82SP38, LAT. 52 39.720' N LONG. 2 28.171 W
QRV 6mtrs 200W, 4mtrs 150W, 2mtrs 300W, 70cms 200W,
Microwave 1296MHz 110W, 2320MHz 100W, 5760MHz 10W & 10368MHz 5W
OS: Linux Mint 20, on a Dell Inspiron 3580 laptop
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Re: HP 8566A large amplitude error in 2-22GHz range
Here's what I get. Worth noting that the attenuation I see is not so consistent. I've seen worse than this before. 
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Re: HP 8566A large amplitude error in 2-22GHz range
Unfortunately, Ebay closed my case because it's after a certain number of days from when I received it (I only just got around to testing it). But, I'm trying to appeal.
Ok, I will perform that test and send the picture.
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Re: HP 8566A large amplitude error in 2-22GHz range
Absolutely - file a case with e-bay and decide whether you want to
return it or to get a discount. Most sellers will offer a discount to
"shut you up" - push hard for a significant discount.
Also, could you publish a picture of the traces you have been
describing. One trace I would like to see is 2G - 22G with MAX HOLD
on (Hit the green button, then MAX HOLD on trace A).
Cheers!
Bruce
Cheers!
Bruce
Quoting huszaghmatt@...:
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Nope, keeps trying to say there¡¯s no issue. I¡¯ve never had to
escalate an issue with EBay about a purchase before but it looks
like it¡¯s coming to that. I¡¯d actually like to keep the device and
debug it, since I want to learn how to do this. But I¡¯d like to get
a discount for a non-functioning device. Any advice on how to deal
with this situation is appreciated!
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Re: HP 8566A large amplitude error in 2-22GHz range
I haven't sent any. What would you like to see?
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Re: HP 8566A large amplitude error in 2-22GHz range
Have we seen pictures of the "suspect" trace ?
Quoting "george edmonds via groups.io" <G6HIG@...>:
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Simple if sold as used, used means it works correctly. Just do an
ebay claim as a not as described item. Seller then has to pickup
cost of return, most do not like that.
George G6HIG Dover UK
On Monday, 7 December 2020, 17:42:02 GMT, <huszaghmatt@...> wrote:
Nope, keeps trying to say there¡¯s no issue. I¡¯ve never had to
escalate an issue with EBay about a purchase before but it looks
like it¡¯s coming to that. I¡¯d actually like to keep the device and
debug it, since I want to learn how to do this. But I¡¯d like to get
a discount for a non-functioning device. Any advice on how to deal
with this situation is appreciated!
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Re: Value of gold and tubes
Tam, I think I have a pdf of the 6153. I will check when I get home later.
Leon Robinson ?K5JLR
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-------- Original message -------- From: Tam Hanna <tamhan@...> Date: 12/07/2020 6:44 AM (GMT-06:00) To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Value of gold and tubes
Szia Mihaly,
Systron Donner 6153 or Systron Donner 615x.
I bought one on Ebay, imported it to Slovakia and then -
foolishly without making a copy - sent it to Artek.
Thanks in advance if you have it.
With best regards
Tam HANNA
Enjoy electronics? Join 15k7 other followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at
On 2020. 12. 07. 13:42, Mike Feher
wrote:
Hi Tam ¨C
?
Which SD manual do you need? 73 ¨C Mike
?
Mike B. Feher, N4FS
89 Arnold Blvd.
Howell NJ 07731
848-245-9115
?
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
<[email protected]> On Behalf Of
Tam Hanna
Sent: Monday, December 7, 2020 3:12 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Value of gold and
tubes
?
Hello Folks,
?
I just spent 10 minutes of my limited
time digging through whiney messages. So, f### it, Ill invest
another ten minutes to point the esteemed quorum at a general
fact which, we TMI heads, might not like.
?
?
A lot of old TMI is worth less than the
sum of its parts. My ex lab gypsy recently experienced this
upon trying to import a DANAHER 575 curve tracer to Macao. It
was a honest customs official who did not try to pilfer the
unit, but had her over for a chat. He at first believed that
she had found the mother of all import scams, and was utterly
shocked AND very unhappy when she showed him that the 575 will
actually see use as it stands.
?
Same for Nixie tubes. I have, in my lab,
two Systron Donner Microwave counters (if anyone sees Artek,
nudge him from me - dude, I REALLY need me manual back.
Please, please man!!! Its now three years!!!! Ill pay
shipping. I pay processing. PLEASE; give it back as I did not
make a copy before sending it to you).
?
If we tear them down, the Nixies are
worth more than the whole unit.
Actually, I have a design called
Nixie-be-gone floating around my head, just never came to
it...as nixies are maintenance hogs anyways, why not let
customers release the Nixie equity to fools who desire it, and
improve TMI dispatch reliability.
?
?
Either way, with gold prices at a record
high thanks to a dude named after a ceramic lavatory
equipment, we should expect a lot more scrapping soon. Sorry
to bring the depressed news, but 500USD is less than 10 grams
of gold.
?
?
Tam
?
?
?
?
?
- - - - -
With best regards
Tam HANNA
?
Enjoy electronics? Join 13500 followers
by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at
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Re: Value of gold and tubes
Just a FYI...This site has many H-P Journals free for looking
On Monday, December 7, 2020, 10:01:42 AM PST, ghnatiuk@... <ghnatiuk@...> wrote:
So true Dave.
There is much design history that goes along with the instruments.
Those that are interested should get a copy of the book "Inventions of Opportunity" which are selected articles from the old HP Journals.
GH
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Re: HP 8566A large amplitude error in 2-22GHz range
Mike Feher wrote:
"What you are seeing is normal. As you sweep the whole range, the RBW increases to allow the new band to fit into the same linear width as the previous band...."
-----------------------
Say what?? I don't think so.? Here is what Agilent says causes the stepped noise floor:
"The conversion loss of a mixer is a function of harmonic number, and the loss goes up as the harmonic number goes up. This means that signals of equal amplitude would appear at different levels on the display if they involved different mixing modes. To preserve amplitude calibration, then, something must be done.
In Agilent spectrum analyzers, the IF gain is changed. The increased conversion loss at higher LO harmonics causes a loss of sensitivity just as if we had increased the input attenuator. And since the IF gain change occurs after the conversion loss, the gain change is reflected by a corresponding change in the displayed noise level. "
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Re: Value of gold and tubes
I agree Dave. I have a 5000 sq ft house including the basement, plus 600 in the garage and 900 in the shed. It is all filled to the max. I spent millions on the contents, and I bought the items because I wanted them for myself either for enjoyment or work. So, in my mind, I already got my money¡¯s worth out of them. I have been slowly selling off the small stuff, all for a lot less than what I paid, and have no regrets. 73 ¨C Mike ? Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ 07731 848-245-9115 ? > Either way, with gold prices at a record high thanks to a dude named > after a ceramic lavatory equipment, we should expect a lot more > scrapping soon. Sorry to bring the depressed news, but 500USD is less > than 10 grams of gold. ? ?? I think we all know that.? The point here is that money is not always the only consideration.? The sum of the parts is sometimes worth more money than the whole, but the whole is nearly always more useful or desirable than either the money or the parts. ? ?? Money should never be the only thing one cares about. ? ?????????????? -Dave ? -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA ? ? ?
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Re: HP 8566A large amplitude error in 2-22GHz range
On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 12:48 PM, george edmonds wrote:
Simple if sold as used, used means it works correctly. Just do an ebay claim as a not as described item. Seller then has to pickup cost of return, most do not like that.
George G6HIG Dover UK
On Monday, 7 December 2020, 17:42:02 GMT, <huszaghmatt@...> wrote:
?
?
Nope, keeps trying to say there¡¯s no issue. I¡¯ve never had to escalate an issue with EBay about a purchase before but it looks like it¡¯s coming to that. I¡¯d actually like to keep the device and debug it, since I want to learn how to do this. But I¡¯d like to get a discount for a non-functioning device. Any advice on how to deal with this situation is appreciated!
?I second George's comment. You will win the case without a question. Most probably he will give you a partial refund since the shipping of this tank is costly...
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Re: Value of gold and tubes
So true Dave.
There is much design history that goes along with the instruments.
Those that are interested should get a copy of the book "Inventions of Opportunity" which are selected articles from the old HP Journals.
GH
|
Re: HP 8566A large amplitude error in 2-22GHz range
Simple if sold as used, used means it works correctly. Just do an ebay claim as a not as described item. Seller then has to pickup cost of return, most do not like that.
George G6HIG Dover UK
On Monday, 7 December 2020, 17:42:02 GMT, <huszaghmatt@...> wrote:
Nope, keeps trying to say there¡¯s no issue. I¡¯ve never had to escalate an issue with EBay about a purchase before but it looks like it¡¯s coming to that. I¡¯d actually like to keep the device and debug it, since I want to learn how to do this. But I¡¯d like to get a discount for a non-functioning device. Any advice on how to deal with this situation is appreciated!
|
Re: HP 8566A large amplitude error in 2-22GHz range
OK - there is one way leaving it on longer might help. If the reference is unlocked because of xtal standard drift, leaving it on longer ( a day or so) might help - doubtful, but possible.
Run ALL the keyboard diagnostics and give us the results- that would be the most constructive thing to do.
Cheers!
Quoting huszaghmatt@...:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Bruce, terrific thanks I will do that.
Separately, the ebay seller keeps insisting that all I need to do is leave the device on for longer. I'm not convinced. Moreover, I'm worried that if there is a damaged cap, then I might be doing damage by leaving the device on. Is this a concern? I have left it plugged in (i.e., on standby) to keep the oven warm.
|
Re: HP 8566A large amplitude error in 2-22GHz range
Nope, keeps trying to say there¡¯s no issue. I¡¯ve never had to escalate an issue with EBay about a purchase before but it looks like it¡¯s coming to that. I¡¯d actually like to keep the device and debug it, since I want to learn how to do this. But I¡¯d like to get a discount for a non-functioning device. Any advice on how to deal with this situation is appreciated!
|
Re: HP 8566A large amplitude error in 2-22GHz range
On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 06:25 PM, <huszaghmatt@...> wrote:
Separately, the ebay seller keeps insisting that all I need to do is leave the device on for longer.
Does that mean the Ebay seller recognizes your problem with your purchase? Raymond
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Re: [test-equip-trader] 8671, 8672, 8673 support kit
On 12/7/20 5:33 AM, Froggie the Gremlin wrote: Bonjour all: Pete is under severe stress, perhaps due to health problems.
I kindly suggest the group to take this into consideration and cut Pete some slac. Yes, but if he's to be believed, that has been the case for a very long time. You have to understand the history here. This issue on the mailing lists didn't just come up; it has been going on for years. I humbly suggest that we end this thread. That's a good idea. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: Value of gold and tubes
On 12/7/20 3:12 AM, Tam Hanna wrote: I just spent 10 minutes of my limited time digging through whiney messages. So, f### it, Ill invest another ten minutes to point the esteemed quorum at a general fact which, we TMI heads, might not like.
A lot of old TMI is worth less than the sum of its parts. My ex lab gypsy recently experienced this upon trying to import a DANAHER 575 curve tracer to Macao. It was a honest customs official who did not try to pilfer the unit, but had her over for a chat. He at first believed that she had found the mother of all import scams, and was utterly shocked AND very unhappy when she showed him that the 575 will actually see use as it stands.
Same for Nixie tubes. I have, in my lab, two Systron Donner Microwave counters (if anyone sees Artek, nudge him from me - dude, I REALLY need me manual back. Please, please man!!! Its now three years!!!! Ill pay shipping. I pay processing. PLEASE; give it back as I did not make a copy before sending it to you).
If we tear them down, the Nixies are worth more than the whole unit. Actually, I have a design called Nixie-be-gone floating around my head, just never came to it...as nixies are maintenance hogs anyways, why not let customers release the Nixie equity to fools who desire it, and improve TMI dispatch reliability.
Either way, with gold prices at a record high thanks to a dude named after a ceramic lavatory equipment, we should expect a lot more scrapping soon. Sorry to bring the depressed news, but 500USD is less than 10 grams of gold. I think we all know that. The point here is that money is not always the only consideration. The sum of the parts is sometimes worth more money than the whole, but the whole is nearly always more useful or desirable than either the money or the parts. Money should never be the only thing one cares about. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Re: HP 8566A large amplitude error in 2-22GHz range
Bruce, terrific thanks I will do that.
Separately, the ebay seller keeps insisting that all I need to do is leave the device on for longer. I'm not convinced. Moreover, I'm worried that if there is a damaged cap, then I might be doing damage by leaving the device on. Is this a concern? I have left it plugged in (i.e., on standby) to keep the oven warm.
|
Re: HP 8566A large amplitude error in 2-22GHz range
I would take a look at the YTO loop first. Try to do the YTO adjustment. It involves checking and setting the YTO input from the M/N loop, and then adjusting the band pass. Read the manual, here are a set of keyboard diagnostics that will give you enough information to determine if you have a problem with M/N, YTO, ot the electronics driving the YIG. First couple of pages in the service manual discuss these diagnostic. Cheers Bruce Quoting amirb <amir.borji@...>:
ok the fact that peaking has worked and reduced the loss substantially is a good sign. Peaking works on the FM coil of the YTF
now based on your description the LO seems to be unlock all the time and it is wobbly. Therefore, I strongly recommend
you focus on fixing the LO loop and forget the amplitude loss for the moment because at this point I believe it can be due to the lack of stable
Also note that if the YTO has low amplitude which can cause unlock LO, it can also cause loss of amplitude because the mixer's conversion loss will increase quite a bit
if the LO has low amplitude.
so focus on the LO loop for now. I have not worked on any of these 8566/8568 machines but I am sure the structure is universal.
The causes of LO unlock are "usually" one of two things (1) the YTO itself is bad for example it has very low amplitude at some frequencies
(2) the reference section (there are PLLs and multipliers in the reference loop) is bad so the reference frequency that YTO is supposed to lock to is bad
if you have another SA, you can check out the LO amplitude output directly and see if it has any "holes" in it over the full band of YTO
if it does not (flat strong amplitude over the whole band of YTO) then you are good
I am not familiar with the reference section of this analyzer but I am sure there are points that you can connect another analyzer and see if the frequency is rock solid stable or not. One basic test is to connect the Calibration signal of your analyzer to another analyzer and see if it is stable and solid or it is wobbly.
it is quite possible that machine is very old and needs some recapping in the reference section and YTO drivers. that should be easy to do
after the LO is fixed we can go back and see how the amplitude is.
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jim
Dave McGuire