Re: How to check the accuracy of an HP 5342A frequency counter
Hi Terry,
I had to read your question over several times to make sure I understood what you're asking. Please correct me if I'm wrong. It seems like you are measuring the rubidium standard with the counters and the SA while all are also taking an external frequency reference (presumably from the same source?) If that is the case, it would seem to me that either
(1) you may have a problem with all three instruments...but the Siglent SA should be new enough that it's performing within specification I'd think...UNLESS
(2) the Rb standard is off.
Situations like this demand having a primary standard...either a 5071A caesium clock if you are really hardcore or just a good GPSDO for everything else, to compare your Rb standard to. Another really nice tool to have in your arsenal for this sort of work is a 53310A modulation domain analyzer, connected to a source of primary standard timebase. A huge benefit if the 53310A is the only external signal you need for calibration is a decently good 5V DC signal for one of the self-cal steps. It is an effective frequency microscope for aligning other equipment.
Additionally, the datasheet for your counter (here's one: ) indicates a timebase error uncertainty at 10 MHz of between 1 and 10 Hz depending on whether the unit is equipped with an oven or is just equipped with the base TCXO, respectively. I would say that aspect appears to be in spec, but the
Sean
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On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 07:34 PM, Terry Maurice wrote:
I have two of these units, one has the oven the other does not.? The two units do not read exactly the same value when fed with a signal from a 10MHz FE-5680A, rubidium frequency standard.? I am monitoring the frequency standard with the two HP units and my Siglent SSA 3021X spectrum analyzer, all units being fed from the rubidium standard through a Downeast Microwave 10-4, 10MHz amplifier and filtered 4-way divider.? The units have been on for about 5 hours before taking the readings below.?
Unit A (with crystal oven) reads 9,999,828 Hz, +/- 2 Hz; unit B reads 9,999,830 Hz, +/-2 Hz and my spectrum analyzer reads 9,999,826 Hz.? Are these values within the expected values for these older frequency counters?? Is the FE-5680A correct? I checked both HP 5342As with their internal references and both show 10MHz.? How can I know, which unit(s) are correct, or do I assume my rubidium frequency standard is off by about 170 Hz?
The FE-5680A does generate some heat when left on for prolonged periods, however, It is mounted on an aluminum heatsink and sealed inside a solid metal box, but the metal case is only slightly warm to the touch.? On my oscilloscope, the output of the rubidium standard shows a distorted wave, but once it passes through the DEM 10-4 it is a clean sine curve. ?
Any help or comments would be much appreciated.
Terry?
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Re: How to check the accuracy of an HP 5342A frequency counter
What I do is take the 10 MHz output from the counter time base (rear of unit) and compare to the rubidium 10 MHz signal on an oscilloscope X-Y display.? I adjust the counter time base to get the Lissajous pattern to be as stationary as possible.
I suspect the standard is more accurate than the counter but it needs to be checked I suppose.? This is probably where? a GPSDO comes in.? However, 170 Hz is a gross error and you shouldn't have anything near that much.? I would guess a lot less than 1 Hz if all is working properly.
Bob
On Sunday, April 26, 2020, 07:35:01 PM PDT, Terry Maurice <ve3xtm@...> wrote:
I have two of these units, one has the oven the other does not.? The two units do not read exactly the same value when fed with a signal from a 10MHz FE-5680A, rubidium frequency standard.? I am monitoring the frequency standard with the two HP units and my Siglent SSA 3021X spectrum analyzer, all units being fed from the rubidium standard through a Downeast Microwave 10-4, 10MHz amplifier and filtered 4-way divider.? The units have been on for about 5 hours before taking the readings below.?
Unit A (with crystal oven) reads 9,999,828 Hz, +/- 2 Hz; unit B reads 9,999,830 Hz, +/-2 Hz and my spectrum analyzer reads 9,999,826 Hz.? Are these values within the expected values for these older frequency counters?? Is the FE-5680A correct? I checked both HP 5342As with their internal references and both show 10MHz.? How can I know, which unit(s) are correct, or do I assume my rubidium frequency standard is off by about 170 Hz?
The FE-5680A does generate some heat when left on for prolonged periods, however, It is mounted on an aluminum heatsink and sealed inside a solid metal box, but the metal case is only slightly warm to the touch.? On my oscilloscope, the output of the rubidium standard shows a distorted wave, but once it passes through the DEM 10-4 it is a clean sine curve. ?
Any help or comments would be much appreciated.
Terry?
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Re: Semiconductor test set advice
I've tried to email the OP multiple times with questions about his rapidly burgeoning lab setup, but they never get answered. Overactive spam filter?
Sean
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On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 07:47 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 4/26/20 10:02 PM, Reginald Beardsley via groups.io wrote:
I'd like to get a semiconductor test set. Preferably something that will send output to a printer. rather than have to photograph a screen. I've got a Peak Atlas DCA75, but I'd like something better. Building one is appealing, but time consuming.
McGuire commented on an HP unit he uses, but I can't find the post and my email to him apparently wound up in the spam bin.
Uhh, check your own spam bin, Sparky. ;) I replied to that email,
4/24 12:05AM.
-Dave
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Re: Semiconductor test set advice
On 4/26/20 10:02 PM, Reginald Beardsley via groups.io wrote: I'd like to get a semiconductor test set. Preferably something that will send output to a printer. rather than have to photograph a screen. I've got a Peak Atlas DCA75, but I'd like something better. Building one is appealing, but time consuming.
McGuire commented on an HP unit he uses, but I can't find the post and my email to him apparently wound up in the spam bin. Uhh, check your own spam bin, Sparky. ;) I replied to that email, 4/24 12:05AM. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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How to check the accuracy of an HP 5342A frequency counter
I have two of these units, one has the oven the other does not.? The two units do not read exactly the same value when fed with a signal from a 10MHz FE-5680A, rubidium frequency standard.? I am monitoring the frequency standard with the two HP units and my Siglent SSA 3021X spectrum analyzer, all units being fed from the rubidium standard through a Downeast Microwave 10-4, 10MHz amplifier and filtered 4-way divider.? The units have been on for about 5 hours before taking the readings below.?
Unit A (with crystal oven) reads 9,999,828 Hz, +/- 2 Hz; unit B reads 9,999,830 Hz, +/-2 Hz and my spectrum analyzer reads 9,999,826 Hz.? Are these values within the expected values for these older frequency counters?? Is the FE-5680A correct? I checked both HP 5342As with their internal references and both show 10MHz.? How can I know, which unit(s) are correct, or do I assume my rubidium frequency standard is off by about 170 Hz?
The FE-5680A does generate some heat when left on for prolonged periods, however, It is mounted on an aluminum heatsink and sealed inside a solid metal box, but the metal case is only slightly warm to the touch.? On my oscilloscope, the output of the rubidium standard shows a distorted wave, but once it passes through the DEM 10-4 it is a clean sine curve. ?
Any help or comments would be much appreciated.
Terry?
|
Re: Semiconductor test set advice
Reg,
I'm a bit confused.
Are you talking about curve tracers (Tek speak) or semiconductor parameter analyzers (HP speak)? Or are you talking about fittings for a network analyzer? HP did make at least one test fixture for the 8510C for characterizing RF transistors, but the catalogs it appears in mention that it requires some software that might be hard to find.
Sean
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Semiconductor test set advice
I'd like to get a semiconductor test set. Preferably something that will send output to a printer. rather than have to photograph a screen. I've got a Peak Atlas DCA75, but I'd like something better. Building one is appealing, but time consuming.
McGuire commented on an HP unit he uses, but I can't find the post and my email to him apparently wound up in the spam bin.
So what's a good choice? It "would be nice" to go up to the 2.4 GHz & 5 GHz ISM bands, but that might be out of my price range and probably is more economically handled with some bespoke DIY devices.
I'm familiar with the Tek line, but know nothing about the HP stuff.
Thanks,
Reg
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Re: Maximum depth of HP rack mountable gear?
Yeah, don't discount kitchen DIY furniture as found at places like IKEA. The wife and I redid our computer/music/scrapbooking room with kitchen cabinets rather than the office stuff about 7 years ago. IKEA had way better selection in the kitchen department than in the office department. The office stuff they offered was really lame! Of course now with the Corona Virus and working from home, my laptop computers and desk area get a lot more use!
Jim Ford
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------ Original Message ------ From: "Tam Hanna" <tamhan@...> To: [email protected]Sent: 4/24/2020 10:55:02 PM Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Maximum depth of HP rack mountable gear? Wife introduced kitchen work surfaces (Kuechenarbeitsplatte). Cheap, can be had at home improvement store, works well here.
Tam
With best regards
Tam HANNA
Enjoy electronics? Join 15k7 other followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at
On 2020. 04. 25. 7:50, John Parkins G8KVP wrote:
Hello Dave,
No nothing bad at all, just making it more difficult for ourselves.
When we moved house I took over a room for my gear, so I was able to
build benches, shelves etc as I wanted them. At first it was fine, but
I think as we all do a flat surface is for putting things on. So the
amount of available work area reduces and reduces until we're trying
to work on a large bit of gear in a space which isn't quite big
enough...... I've over come this by having a removable 'bench' which
is only put into place when I need the extra room and removed
afterwards. If it were left in place it would end up covered in stuff!
We can't help it, I think it's in all our natures to collect.
Friday, April 24, 2020, 6:53:46 PM, you wrote:
DM> On 4/24/20 12:27 PM, John Parkins G8KVP wrote:
WORKBENCH! How ever wide you make them they just aren't wide enough.
DM> Unfinished flat doors make very good workbenches. And desks, for that
DM> matter.
Why do we do this to ourselves?
DM> You say this as if there's something bad about it.
DM> -Dave
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I can speak for what HP/Agilent did for calibration of Tektronix ETE manually and using Metcal software. Most of the Metcal programs for Tektronix were written by an HP engineer thoroughly trained on Metcal, or written by Tektronix engineers.
The Metcal trained engineer would use the TEK manual cal procedure, automating the instrument and measurement where possible, or prompting the person doing the cal through the manual procedure. Other TEK ETE was done manually using the Tek
manual and cal procedure. I can speak for the 11302A mainframes and plugins, 75-125 page cal procedures. I have done cal procedures on over 50ea. 11302A and CSA803 mainframes and plugins. After the 5th one in a row your attention and focus is shot, and typically it is 40+ hrs. later in you life, definitely not my favorite instrument to calibrate, especially with the SD26 plugins.
Don Bitters
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Re: WTB: HP 8971B or advice
Be careful of bandwidth.? ?Will alter readings.? 8971 has yig filter.?
Reg,
When I worked for HP we used to use the 8970S (8970B, 8971B, 346B/C, and an RF/microwave source - 8340A/B, 8672A, or 83650B) to do NF (noise figure) measurements.? The 83631 will definitely do the job.? The 8971B is not absolutely required, but makes it a lot easier to do the NF measurement.? You simply need to have a mixer to be able to down convert the desired signal to get it in the range of the 8970.? Also, the microwave source has to have a lower NF than what you are trying to measure.
Don Bitters
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Re: WTB: HP 8971B or advice
Reg,
When I worked for HP we used to use the 8970S (8970B, 8971B, 346B/C, and an RF/microwave source - 8340A/B, 8672A, or 83650B) to do NF (noise figure) measurements. The 83631 will definitely do the job. The 8971B is not absolutely required, but makes it a lot easier to do the NF measurement. You simply need to have a mixer to be able to down convert the desired signal to get it in the range of the 8970. Also, the microwave source has to have a lower NF than what you are trying to measure.
Don Bitters
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Re: RMS voltmeter HP 3400A - what does option C61 stand for?
Leo,
I believe options prefixed with "C" meant special order and/or custom. Anyway, according to the 1978 HP annual catalog: "Opt 001 spreads out the dB scale by making it the top scale of the meter. Rear terminals in parallel with front panel terminals and linear log scale uppermost on the meter face are available on special order. (add $30)"
Sean
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On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 06:02 AM, Leo Bodnar wrote:
Somebody asked me what does Option C61 stand for in HP 3400A RMS voltmeter.
I can't remember, but I think it was something immaterial - like certification supplied or on-site service options.
Does anybody know? Please feel free to reply to that question directly if you wish.
Cheers
Leo
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Some useful HP items on the stuff event page, need an hp 85046A S parameter TS.
We found a lot of useful Hp accessories and stuck them on the annual stuff event page, you can see them here:
also lots of hard to find HP CRTs at the page bottom. if you are looking for other hp items, let me know, happy to add them to the page as we have a lot of things in storage to clear out.
we have several S-parameter test sets and normalizers we can't use, including:
8503A S-Parameter TS
35677B (75 ohm S-parameter TS)
8750A Storage Normalizer (with SA plug in)
8501A Storage Normalizer
we need to get a working 85046A and cables for our 8753A, happy to trade above items for the right widgets.
off-list is maybe best.
all the best,
walter (walter2 -at- sphere.bc.ca)
sphere research corp.
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Re: HP8562A Errors 304,335,317,333
Hello Stu I use what I can get my hands on. That is often panasonic or nippon. but in fact all NON china will do ok. The reason why I said 220uF is because it is hard to find 180uF at least in my junk box
?.
the caps you shoe is really bad. change them and you have your analyzer back
?
Gl
best regards Peter
Peter, etal
?
Decided they all were suspicious and with great care removed.
Spot the suspect cap for 28.8volt supply?
?
What’s the best manufacturer for Electrolytics, 180/220uF(Know you suggested 220uF) going to order some today from RS components..
?
That was the suspicious odour that came from the analyser I guess..
?
Remove them with great care, including the 12v 470uF cap, decision after seeing the darkened appearance and bulging bottom of the cap.
No vias were removed at the same time just lots of Heat and Flux, braid and they came out easily. (Pictures may look like via’s still attached to legs, but it’s solder!
?
Cheers,
Stu.
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Leo Kroonenburg
Sent: 24 April 2020 07:03
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP8562A Errors 304,335,317,333
?
Hi,
I used Chipquick to remove a broken ADC from my TDS540B acquisition board and from a donor board.
Worked great.
I added Chipquick to all the joints and heated the whole chip using hot air to remove it.
Afterwards I cleaned the soldering pads using a normal iron and flux.
Putting the donor part back was done using a normal, small flat soldering iron.
Pictures can be found here:
/g/TekScopes/album?id=21745
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Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
Heh, nice. ;) But please remember, Microsoft, and the typical quality of their products, is not representative of the computing world. Far, FAR from it.
-Dave
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On April 26, 2020 1:53:57 PM "Jack Reynolds" <jackandladyreynolds@...> wrote: Back in the day when I was still working for GM many of us took note of
the fact that we were disparaged as "rust belt industries" while the
computer weenies in the silicon valley basked in the Sun and their own
self promotion.? One of my coworkers pointed out that we had been
manufacturing computer systems for years that would faultlessly run a
vehicle for ten years and 100,000 miles. He pointed out that if we were
as great as the weenies our cars would crap out 3 or 4 times a day in
traffic, show a blue screen and tell us to reboot!
Jack Reynolds
On 4/26/2020 9:31 AM, Harvey White wrote:
see below....
On 4/26/2020 4:08 AM, Anders wrote:
Case in point: Windows 10 comes with Candy Crush.. Why?
Because there are people who use their computers/laptops to play
games, and it's easy to pull that up, give the six year old the
laptop, and go about your business.
MIcrosoft's philosophy is to try to be everything to everybody at all
times (and then, one day, charge them per use).
What you're looking for, driving down the road, is a good dependable
car that does what you want and not a lot more.? A car designed by
microsoft would have a living room, recliners, game room, media room,
small kitchen, 2 baths, and a library. It would be so tall it would
fall over periodically, you'd have to stop every 10 miles and then
turn it off, run around the outside, turn it back on, and then you'd
be good for another 10 miles.? Every alternate Tuesday, you'd have the
dealer come find you and bolt on the latest accessory and remove the
ones you've been used to.
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
Back in the day when I was still working for GM many of us took
note of the fact that we were disparaged as "rust belt industries"
while the computer weenies in the silicon valley basked in the Sun
and their own self promotion.? One of my coworkers pointed out
that we had been manufacturing computer systems for years that
would faultlessly run a vehicle for ten years and 100,000 miles.?
He pointed out that if we were as great as the weenies our cars
would crap out 3 or 4 times a day in traffic, show a blue screen
and tell us to reboot!
Jack Reynolds
On 4/26/2020 9:31 AM, Harvey White
wrote:
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Show quoted text
see below....
On 4/26/2020 4:08 AM, Anders wrote:
Case in point: Windows 10 comes with Candy Crush.. Why?
Because there are people who use their computers/laptops to
play games, and it's easy to pull that up, give the six year old
the laptop, and go about your business.?
MIcrosoft's philosophy is to try to be everything to everybody
at all times (and then, one day, charge them per use).?
What you're looking for, driving down the road, is a good
dependable car that does what you want and not a lot more.? A
car designed by microsoft would have a living room, recliners,
game room, media room, small kitchen, 2 baths, and a library.?
It would be so tall it would fall over periodically, you'd have
to stop every 10 miles and then turn it off, run around the
outside, turn it back on, and then you'd be good for another 10
miles.? Every alternate Tuesday, you'd have the dealer come find
you and bolt on the latest accessory and remove the ones you've
been used to.
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Re: HP K21-5321B Digital Clock
Hello, Stephen,
thank you very much for your answer.
I suspect that one or more of the counter chips have a defect. I
will probably not be able to avoid building a test adapter for the
chips. The second board is in my opinion only an optional digital
output for the PC or other devices. I don't think that the two
indicators in the display are controlled there.
Best regards
Philipp?
Am 23.04.2020 um 02:54 schrieb Stephen
Hanselman:
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First the dat hold and the other one(I forget what it’s called)
are actually controlled by the computer. ?At least under TODS and
the 9500D software we use.
I will keep looking for one of our old manuals but it sounds
like there could be an issue in the decade counters. ?As I
remember the 2nd board (not NIXIE board is mostly to do with the
time mark outputs rather than the clock it self. I think
basically you have the NIXIE drivers fed by Latch’s fed by
counters that do the Seconds ?0->9 and 0>5 before kicking
up to the minuets 0->9 and 0>5 etc
Again this is all from memory. I also haven’t been able to
find our old boards I fear they are buried in 800 pounds of gold
scrap.
I’ll keep looking
Regards,
?
Stephen
Hanselman
Datagate
Systems, LLC
?
Hello, Steve,
depending on how I change the ICs the clock seems to run
or not. What I couldn't get away from is that some numbers
are skipped when setting the clock. This is annoying if
you jump from min 58 to 60 then the minutes do not fit
anymore. Much more strange is that the display Data Hold
does not go off when the clock is running and also no
matter if the clock is running and has a plausible time or
not always a time error is displayed. If I remove the J-K
flip-flop on the PCB these two indicators are off. The
device seems to be intact but I had exchanged it for an
identical one. I would exchange the other devices if HP
had not used Inverse Logic devices for the counters. Or is
there a cheap replacement for 1820-0119 and 1820-0116?
I would hate to build my own replacement for that...
Due to the inverse logic and the speed, the devices cannot
be tested on my current IC Tester... I suppose that the
tester can check HC and LS devices, so it has something to
do with speed? Or what is the reason that SN74xx devices
can not be tested with most IC testers that are available
at eBay.
Many greetings from Germany
Philipp
Am 21.04.2020 um 18:43 schrieb
Stephen Hanselman:
Philipp,
?
What is the clock doing/not doing.?
I went looking for our manuals and it seems they did
not survive the purge.
?
One thing to do as a preventative
measure is to look at the row of chips next to the
NIXIE tubes.? In between them (I think I’ve got the
position right) are resistors.? These are the current
limit resistors for the NIXIEs and they get hot enough
to burn the board.? We always replace them, installing
about a 0.25 in above the PCA.?
?
The circuit for this part is very
similar to the display section of the 5327B.?
?
We built a replacement clock that
actually remembers who it is when the power is cycled
so all of the old stuff got packed.
?
I’ll talk to my partner but I can’t
find the spare boards of manuals we used to have
?
Steve
?
?
Hello,
maybe anybody has a service Manual für the K21-5321B
Digital Clock.
My clock dosent work the right way. I already tryed
swaping ICs but i think that more than one is
faulty...
Best regards from Germany
Philipp Gr?mer
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Re: RMS voltmeter HP 3400A - what does option C61 stand for?
An HP-3400A with Option C61 (not mine) is currently listed on eBay; that’s probably the source of the question.?
On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 6:02 AM Leo Bodnar < leo@...> wrote: Somebody asked me what does Option C61 stand for in HP 3400A RMS voltmeter.
I can't remember, but I think it was something immaterial - like certification supplied or on-site service options.
Does anybody know? Please feel free to reply to that question directly if you wish.
Cheers
Leo
|
Re: Test Equipment For Sale
? ?DAM:? Moms Against Dyslexia.
|
Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
see below....
On 4/26/2020 4:08 AM, Anders wrote:
Case in point: Windows 10 comes with Candy Crush.. Why?
Because there are people who use their computers/laptops to play
games, and it's easy to pull that up, give the six year old the
laptop, and go about your business.?
MIcrosoft's philosophy is to try to be everything to everybody at
all times (and then, one day, charge them per use).?
What you're looking for, driving down the road, is a good
dependable car that does what you want and not a lot more.? A car
designed by microsoft would have a living room, recliners, game
room, media room, small kitchen, 2 baths, and a library.? It would
be so tall it would fall over periodically, you'd have to stop
every 10 miles and then turn it off, run around the outside, turn
it back on, and then you'd be good for another 10 miles.? Every
alternate Tuesday, you'd have the dealer come find you and bolt on
the latest accessory and remove the ones you've been used to.
As for OOP, well
correctly done, it leads to less code duplication and code that is
easier to maintain.
Agreed.? I prefer C++ in embedded systems.
Then there is that diffecence between computers and small
processors. I once worked with someone that used .Net on an
embedded system. Most of the problems he had was because of .Net.
Had I designed the system then it would have been on a small
16-bit pic and "C". Using the PIC hardware and not some stupid
software UARTs....
|
Dave McGuire
Jeremy Nichols