Re: 8510C questions and cabling
None of the cabling is obvious from the Preflight Checkout diagram or the entire document. At this point my concern is identifying specialty HP cables I need to get.
I'd like to be able to switch the 83631B among an 8511A, 8512A and 8515A so I don't have to recable the system to change modes of operation. That seems pretty straight forward, add a ST3P RF relay. But I can't find anything to tell me if I can daisy chain the 8512A and 8515A using a 08510-60102 cable between the two. The presence of the J10 and J11 connectors on both test sets suggest you can, but I've not yet found any supporting documentation.
And then there are mysteries such as, "For 8360, a BNC open, 1250-0053 should be connected to the 85102 SWEEP IN 0-10V". How is that different from the bare BNC connector or a BNC dust cap?
I'm installing everything in custom racks built above a pair of ESD surface benches. It's a small room, so pulling the bench out from the wall to recable is not attractive if it's possible to avoid it.
Reg
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On 4/3/20 12:33 PM, Bob Albert via groups.io wrote: After replacing the resistor all seems okay in that area.? No other
failures.? Just a bad resistor that went up in value and then overheated. Went *up* and overheated? That doesn't sound right. I'd bet that it overheated and went up in value as a result. The latest is that a new failure has surfaced.? Now the unit blows
fuses.? One of the regulators gets hot so I have to stop with the
original issue and get into the power supply.? Suddenly the voltages are
out of specification. Are there tantalum capacitors in a 3455A? (I had one for years, long ago, but never had to work on it.) I am getting a bit annoyed with this repair job and so may put it back
into the closet for the nonce. You're making progress, though! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: Fixing a sick 4332A LCR meter
On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 09:37 AM, Joel Setton wrote:
Ok, then I'd suggest we focus on getting the oscillator running again !
Since it used to be OK, you may want to start by looking for any broken wires, etc ... Maybe it's just a broken wire.
The problem could logically be a power supply fail, or in the oscillator itself which is on A1.
First check the power supplies; then if they're OK, look at what's happening in the oscillator.
The oscillator only depends on power supply lines, and needs no other signals to operate properly.
The troubleshooting tree (figure 5-8) provides some help in troubleshooting the oscillator, if you need it. It's a conventional Wien oscillator, so you may want to start by checking the DC levels on A1TP1 (approx -0.6V), then on either side of A1R25 which will tell you what the AGC loop is doing.
And please... keep me informed !
Have fun,
Joel
Joel, I have been following the troubleshooting tree. With the settings suggested (C, 100 pF range, 100 pF cap across the unknown) So far, it's gotten me basically across the bottom of the tree, though I haven't tried disconnecting the feedback and inserting my own bias yet. A couple things I have observed since the last message: 1) sometimes the K1 reed relay doesn't seem to be switching, other times it does. 2) The oscillator runs in whatever state it is in, on R, in every range. 3) The oscillator stops in C, when the range is in the left hand side of the knob range; it starts (again with the 12 KHz 70 mVrms) in the right hand side of the switch range. The DC offset on A1TP1 is +6 Vdc when the oscillator is off; when it is running it is -0.9 Vdc. Pin 6 of A1IC3 (connected to one side of A1R25) is -12.3 Vdc (supposed to be +2.4 according to schematic???) and the other side of A1R25 is -0.68 Vdc. 4) The behavior in (3) is apparently identical in the L function. Sean
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HP58503A GPSDO changing firmware to remove 1PP2S (Option H14)
I found an HP58503A GPSDO locally, with a faulty psu, but very cheap (?50). The PSU is a quick repair, using a Meanwell PT-65S (5V/1A, +/-15V 0.5A)
Unfortunately my version had RevC "Option H14", giving out 1 pulse per 2 seconds (1PP2S) for CDMA synchronsation, not 1PPS which is usually needed for oscillator disciplining.
In case anyone finds one of these machines and needs 1PPS like me, here is the method:
Download the RevA binary files from here:
Blow a new set of four AM29F010-120JI chips.? I kept the old ones in case I managed to brick the machine with the older firmware. Make sure you note (or photo) which chip goes where.
The older firmware works fine and gives a solid 1PPS, and operates the optional display buttons front panel perfectly.? Otherwise all is as before.
-Jeremy
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Re: Fixing a sick 4332A LCR meter
Ok, then I'd suggest we focus on getting the oscillator running again !
Since it used to be OK, you may want to start by looking for any broken wires, etc ... Maybe it's just a broken wire.
The problem could logically be a power supply fail, or in the oscillator itself which is on A1.
First check the power supplies; then if they're OK, look at what's happening in the oscillator.
The oscillator only depends on power supply lines, and needs no other signals to operate properly.
The troubleshooting tree (figure 5-8) provides some help in troubleshooting the oscillator, if you need it. It's a conventional Wien oscillator, so you may want to start by checking the DC levels on A1TP1 (approx -0.6V), then on either side of A1R25 which will tell you what the AGC loop is doing.
And please... keep me informed !
Have fun,
Joel
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Re: Configuring an 85301C test range using an 8530A and 83631B
On 4/3/20 12:11 PM, Reginald Beardsley via groups.io wrote: I've been studying the Agilent 85301B/C configuration guide, 5967-6042E, with the aim of being able to set up an automated anechoic test range for the 2.4 & 5 GHz ISM bands.
My 8530A does not have option 005, so I can't use an 85370A position encoder, however, it doesn't seem to me that presents a significant obstacle. I should be able to hack together a controller and stepper motors for the small antennas I'd be playing with and run it all from a PC.
Figure 17 & 20 appear to suggest that with a directional coupler and an 8511A, I'll be good to go except for cables , antenna positioning system and the anechoic chamber.
Can anyone with experience with the 85301C configuration confirm this? Yes, I've done exactly this, minus the PC. I threw together a simple stepper controller, got a cheap stepper-driven rotary table, and tied it into my 8530A. It worked fine, though I'd really like to get a better rotary table. And yes, you will need a directional coupler. This was a few years ago and I don't really remember many of the details, but my little stepper driver board connected to the 8530A via two BNCs for the synchronization protocol. I hacked together a little ARM microcontroller and wrote the firmware in C. I was able to sweep the radiation patterns of ~10GHz horns with this setup with ease. It's no longer all put together, but it's still here. If you want to try to use what I built as a starting point, I can dig up my notes and other info more info on that setup. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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After replacing the resistor all seems okay in that area.? No other failures.? Just a bad resistor that went up in value and then overheated.
The latest is that a new failure has surfaced.? Now the unit blows fuses.? One of the regulators gets hot so I have to stop with the original issue and get into the power supply.? Suddenly the voltages are out of specification.
I am getting a bit annoyed with this repair job and so may put it back into the closet for the nonce.
I want to thank all of you for your guidance.
Bob
On Friday, April 3, 2020, 06:05:12 AM PDT, paul swedberg <paulswedb@...> wrote:
When I was repairing the 3455 I checked Artek and did not see the 3455 manual so I used the very poor quality HP. Will have to recheck?Artek as there manuals are very good and very reasonable. I have purchased numbers of them. Sometimes everything doesn't have to be free. Its if you see honest value. Artek gives that value to me at least. Regards Paul WB8TSL
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Re: 58503A GPSDO PSU details/availability
Hi Andy,
I asssume you sorted this out after all this time, but if not, I can send you the wiring details. And it's just a very ordinary PSU.? 5V 1A and +/-15V 0.5A.
Look on EEVBLOG and you will find various comments about psu replacement.
-Jeremy
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Configuring an 85301C test range using an 8530A and 83631B
I've been studying the Agilent 85301B/C configuration guide, 5967-6042E, with the aim of being able to set up an automated anechoic test range for the 2.4 & 5 GHz ISM bands.
My 8530A does not have option 005, so I can't use an 85370A position encoder, however, it doesn't seem to me that presents a significant obstacle. I should be able to hack together a controller and stepper motors for the small antennas I'd be playing with and run it all from a PC.
Figure 17 & 20 appear to suggest that with a directional coupler and an 8511A, I'll be good to go except for cables , antenna positioning system and the anechoic chamber.
Can anyone with experience with the 85301C configuration confirm this?
Thanks,
Reg
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Re: Fixing a sick 4332A LCR meter
On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 09:00 AM, @0culus wrote:
I think that something else has broken...the C function was somewhat functional before, and now it is not. Both C and L, the needle remains below zero scale and there is no oscillator activity.
OK, this is getting ridiculous. Now it's "working" again. Almost makes me think there's something mechanical going on too. I hate finding mechanical issues...I have a Tek 7104 that had the resistor in the fan circuit loose and randomly shorting the fan circuit to ground. Took forever to find it after I noticed that moving the SMPS in and out of the case sometimes let the scope start.
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Re: Fixing a sick 4332A LCR meter
I think that something else has broken...the C function was somewhat functional before, and now it is not. Both C and L, the needle remains below zero scale and there is no oscillator activity.
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Re: Fixing a sick 4332A LCR meter
Couple of further notes:
- The signal at A1TP1/A1Q2 emitter disappears entirely in L or C
- The frequency does not change no matter what range we're on
- The signal actually is correct at 70 mVrms...I had forgotten to compensate the probe I am using for the 7A22 vertical amp after using it with a different vertical amp in my Tek 7904A.
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On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 08:41 AM, @0culus wrote:
Joel,
1) no worries
2) OK, I'm not sure how I didn't put 2+2 together on that but it makes perfect sense now. The 427A has a log scaled resistance scale!
3) A1TP1/A1Q2 emitter (in R mode, with a 1K resistor connected) shows a ~175 mVpp (~62 mVrms) clean sine @ 12.37 KHz.
Sean
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Re: Fixing a sick 4332A LCR meter
Joel,
1) no worries
2) OK, I'm not sure how I didn't put 2+2 together on that but it makes perfect sense now. The 427A has a log scaled resistance scale!
3) A1TP1/A1Q2 emitter (in R mode, with a 1K resistor connected) shows a ~175 mVpp (~62 mVrms) clean sine @ 12.37 KHz.
Sean
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On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 05:46 AM, Joel Setton wrote:
Hello Sean,
I'm answering your questions out of sequence, but I'm sure you'll be able to make some sense out of this !
* I wrote about the emitter of A2Q2 but I meant A1Q2, I'm sorry for the typo.
* The 4332 has linear scales, so it's normal for the ohmmeter function to "peg" the needle if the input is open-circuit. Of course, "infinite" is way above full-scale!
* Since the ohm-meter is *somewhat* functional but reads a resistance value which is much too low, I believe there's something wrong with the oscillator. My 4332A puts out a 77mV signal at the INPUT terminal, a point where you're seeing only 12mV. Of course your mileage may vary, but I'd suggest we first look at the oscillator. It's described in the manual on page 4-3, paragraphs 4-11(a) and 4-11(b). Please probe the signal at A1 TP1 or the emitter of A1Q2, which is the oscillator output. Paragraph 4-11(b) says there should be 70mV across A1R37. Is the amplitude OK ?
If the amplitude is too low but the signal still looks like a clean sinewave, the next step will be to look at the rectifier A1IC2 and the voltage comparator A1IC3 which control the oscillator amplitude via A1Q1 (a FET which is operated as a variable resistance to control oscillator amplitude). For example, a fault around A1IC3 would cause an error in oscillator amplitude, similar to what you're seeing. But I'm thinking aloud here ...
So, please let me know what you see. And, just as a matter of personal curiosity, in which timezone are you ?
Sincerely,
Joel Setton
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Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
by the way, later you can download the V4.3 and V4.5 from Tony G depository (above) and update the software first to 4.3 and then to 4.5
for that you simply need to connect that CD drive to the IDE header again and put those upgrade files on a CD rom and then navigate to the CD drive in windows 98
and run the upgrade (forget what that HP manual says)
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Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 12:58 AM, <ujonsson@...> wrote:
Hi,? My loved 54810A died on me.? It is the oldest Gen 1 unit no VIN running 95 and it has not been upgraded.? I did read up on the recovery process from the HP documentation and I have the version 3.5 disc image.??I can open the ISO and I find the files listed below files.?
HP suggested that one use a printer port CD Drive to recover it. The Ghost.EXE wont run on my win10 machine.?I do have an XP machine I might get GHOST to run on but it is a laptop.?
Any suggestion?? Another option but at a $250 cost would be to buy a drive from ebay but with all the uncertainty I rather do my part of bring the economy to a standstill :-(? ? a few month ago I would just have shelled out the $250 but...
Here are the files on the ISO.
GHOST.EXE
hp548cd.inf
HP548RCV.GHO
Regards,
Ulf
by the way, when you say the scope suddenly died, what exactly do you mean? Are you even sure that it is the hard drive malfunction? there are many other possibilites if it is confirmed to be the hard drive, then as I mentioned before, you do not need any ghost explorer or win xp or anything . all you need is download a bootable win98 floppy from internet with CD ROM support (many available) and make a bootable floppy you can get a nice little USB floppy drive for $10-$15 from amazon or something if you need then you burn the 3.5 recovery iso image? on a CD ROM (even windows built in cd burner works) get the image from Tony G depository here then you need a 40 pin IDE cd drive to be connected to the motherboard directly (again very cheap to find or pull from old PC) get a compact flash (CF) card and CF card IDE adapter (40 pin) and insert it right on top of the IDE connector on the motherboard you can get the 5V supply for that from the nearby USB header on the motherboard boot the scope to floppy and navigate to the CD rom and run the ghost.exe and watch it for a while and you are done but first you need to make sure it is really the hard drive that has died
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Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
+1 for Amirb's suggestion of a CF IDE adaptor. I've done this on a number of instruments.
Robert G8RPI.
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Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
Hi Rik,
That is because the format that they use for storing the likely
compressed data is their own proprietary format.
dd can backup/copy a full disk, or a partition, or a file, it
doesn't care. It can deal with errors in a variety of ways, and
it can compress the results of its backup, and uncompress the
backup while doing the restore.
Very versatile, and free with linux.
Ok, you don't like linux, you say?
That's fine, download an ISO of any linux live distribution,
and boot into it from the CD/DVD, or thumbdrive, on your
machine, and use dd to do your dirty work. Still free.
-Chuck Harris
Rik Bos wrote:
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Show quoted text
A ghost image is a backup (full disk or only the partition) made by Norton ghost a DOS later Windows application (Norton later Symantic), it uses a proprietary technology to back up the disk.
You can't use dd to restore a ghost image.
-Rik
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: [email protected] <HP-Agilent-Keysight-
[email protected]> Namens Chuck Harris
Verzonden: vrijdag 3 april 2020 15:22
Aan: [email protected]
Onderwerp: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] First Gen HP 54810A with
dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
dd simply copies the disk exactly as the data appears on the drive. It is used in
forensics to clone drives from crime scenes as it makes an exact copy down to
the partition tables, and bad block tables.
What is your definition of a ghost image?
I recall it to be an exact clone of the drive.
-Chuck Harris
Rik Bos wrote:
You're right but dd won't do a ghost image.
-Rik
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Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
A ghost image is a backup (full disk or only the partition) made by Norton ghost a DOS later Windows application (Norton later Symantic), it uses a proprietary technology to back up the disk.
You can't use dd to restore a ghost image.
-Rik
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: [email protected] <HP-Agilent-Keysight-
[email protected]> Namens Chuck Harris
Verzonden: vrijdag 3 april 2020 15:22
Aan: [email protected]
Onderwerp: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] First Gen HP 54810A with
dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
dd simply copies the disk exactly as the data appears on the drive. It is used in
forensics to clone drives from crime scenes as it makes an exact copy down to
the partition tables, and bad block tables.
What is your definition of a ghost image?
I recall it to be an exact clone of the drive.
-Chuck Harris
Rik Bos wrote:
You're right but dd won't do a ghost image.
-Rik
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Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
dd simply copies the disk exactly as the data appears on the
drive. It is used in forensics to clone drives from crime scenes
as it makes an exact copy down to the partition tables, and bad
block tables.
What is your definition of a ghost image?
I recall it to be an exact clone of the drive.
-Chuck Harris
Rik Bos wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
You're right but dd won't do a ghost image.
-Rik
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Re: First Gen HP 54810A with dead HD, Got ISO 3.5, Any way to write it to a drive?
all you need is a win98 bootable floppy + a CD drive (either an external parallel port CD drive which is hard to find or an internal IDE one which is cheap)
you boot to DOS and run the ghost from the CD drive.?
I have done exactly this way to at least three 548xxA scopes...and get rid of the scope's hard drive. put a new compact flash (2GB or 4GB will be more than enough)
with IDE adapter ($2-$4 from china)?
you can go the SSD way but for such and old scope with win98, I wouldn't bother...
?
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Dave McGuire
Rik Bos