Re: 8350B w/83590A repair advice
Thank you for the manual
Best Regards Paul
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected][mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Sergey Kubushyn Sent: 15 December 2019 03:08 To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8350B w/83590A repair advice On Sun, 15 Dec 2019, Paul Bicknell wrote: Put it on my web site at: Not of stellar quality but pretty decent, with schematics, drawings, parts lists and so on. Hi do you have the service manual for the Wiltron 6669B
As I have a 6669A
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sergey
Kubushyn
Sent: 15 December 2019 01:45
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8350B w/83590A repair advice
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019, peter bunge wrote:
Check which unit has the problems.
Best done with a plug-in you can trust. Don't tinker until you know which
is the bad unit. It is almost certainly the plug-in. 8350B itself is a simple device having
almost no influence on plug-in performance.
Those 8350B plug-ins are very tricky to adjust and calibrate. Their output
is a product of several oscillators and filters that all must be tuned
properly. The most difficult is 83592B (and other wide range devices) LOW
frequency range that is a product of 2 several-GHz oscillators so it is
EXTREMELY sensitive to proper adjustments -- you have one of those very
slightly off and there is no lowest band output at all. Zero. The same is
true for other ranges but sensitivity is much lower so relatively big
misalignment would still produce SOME output.
I spent a week trying to calibrate 83592B and put it aside for a time being still not fully calibrated. It is very complex device and different settings all affect each other so you have to re-do calibration multiple times.
I've got two 8340B instruments since that so I lost all interest in 8350B
and its plugins so they are gathering dust right now. I've also got Wiltron 6669B that goes up to 40GHz that works somehow but it is the same kind of
instrument as 8350B, just with everything from all possible plug-ins built
into single instrument so it also begs for proper alignment/calibration. It works but produces something far from sinewave on the lowest band so it
definitely has to be re-adjusted from scratch.
BTW, if somebody is interested I can list those 2 fully working and
calibrated 8350B mainframes I have as well as fully working fully
refurbished and calibrated 83570A plug-in as well as several different
plug-ins in various refurbisment/adjustment/calibration states and some
partial units for parts as I don't need them anymore and have no time to
waste on them. I do also have printed manuals on almost all of those that I would also rather get rid of. Haven't done it so far as there are too much
work on my calendar so I'd rather spend time on something else but if
somebody is interested I can make a list and either sell those direct or
list them on EBay.
BTW, there is little sense in putting new batteries in 8350B (although I
did) as they back up RAM that only holds last settings, nothing else. There are no calibration constants there or something else that might've been of
any importance. It will just power-up in a default state if batteries are
dead or missing, nothing else. All settings are pure mechanical adjustments that don't require any battery to persist. --- * * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * * ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
|
Re: Help to repair my HP654A Test Oscillator
Okay Jeremy I appreciate it.? I have two 200CDs and am sure I can glean a matched pair of tubes from the four.? In any case I am interested in taking this far enough to at least approach the amount of distortion you have.? How did you measure it, and under what settings and conditions?
I have a 331A but don't use it.? A VNA I have does go down into the audio, as well as the FFT in one of my scopes and I can measure distortion that way.? I never measured anything as low as 0.04% though.
Bob K6DDX
On Saturday, December 14, 2019, 11:29:55 PM PST, Jeremy Nichols <jn6wfo@...> wrote:
There are a number of tricks that have been published over the years. I¡¯ll send you copies tomorrow. In the?meantime,? ? balance the two pairs of tubes that make up the push-pull oscillator. The pairs of tubes don¡¯t have to be new/perfect but should be as close as possible in terms of gain.? ? make sure the two lamps in the oscillator feedback have clean bases, are making tight contact with clean sockets, and the sockets have good solder connections. Sockets that are mounted with rivets to a pc board are especially susceptible to poor contact.? ? use the internal gain control (tomorrow I can give you the R-number) to reduce the maximum output to 10 Volts, perhaps even less depending on your needs. Reducing the output voltage lowers distortion.?
I¡¯ll add more in the morning when I¡¯m more awake.?
Jeremy?
On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 10:31 PM Bob Albert via Groups.Io <bob91343= [email protected]> wrote:
What's your secret Jeremy?? I have a couple of 200CDs but they are nothing to write home about regarding distortion.
Bob K6DX
On Saturday, December 14, 2019, 10:19:52 PM PST, Jeremy Nichols < jn6wfo@...> wrote:
My650A did fairly well distortion-wise but my favorite is the 200CD. With a few tricks and a little tweaking I was able to get it down to 0.04%, well below spec.
Jeremy
On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 9:43 PM Bob Albert via Groups.Io <bob91343= [email protected]> wrote:
I know this doesn't help but I did want to say that, in all my years of working with HP gear, this circuit is about the worst design.? I have repaired my 651A a couple of times and have never been able to get it to meet its distortion spec.? Mine works okay but I got tired of messing with it and it's no longer in line for use.? My main repair seemed to center about that FET in the middle of the diagram.? I tried a few different types without much success.? I ddi finally get it to oscillate on all ranges.? The distortion runs a bit over 0.5% worst case and the frequency calibration isn't as good as it could be, but it remains a useful instrument.
Perhaps you'd like to play with it.? The main thing I like is the nice attenuator.? Back in the day, I had a 650A that was a marvelous piece of gear.? Too bad this one didn't match that.
Bob
On Saturday, December 14, 2019, 08:35:49 PM PST, Don Bitters via Groups.Io <donbitters= [email protected]> wrote:
Almost certainly 50Hz AM modulation - 20msec per cycle.? Does touching the 645 chassis change the amplitude of the modulation, if so check the chassis ground at the power cord input, you may have an open ground pin.? If not check the power supplies for 50/100 Hz modulation, percentage of voltage of the supply, the worst looking supply is probably the culprit. Don Bitters
|
Re: Have probes - but need matching grounding clips and grabbers
Toby, check the HP Archives for the manuals, search ¡°HP 10017A manual¡±.
I also may have the probes and grabbers. I will have to check my stock for extras. Contact me @ donbitters@... with what you need. I probable have a dozen or more of the scope probes of all kinds and packets of the accessories, both HP and TEK.
Don Bitters
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Re: Help to repair my HP654A Test Oscillator
There are a number of tricks that have been published over the years. I¡¯ll send you copies tomorrow. In the?meantime,? ? balance the two pairs of tubes that make up the push-pull oscillator. The pairs of tubes don¡¯t have to be new/perfect but should be as close as possible in terms of gain.? ? make sure the two lamps in the oscillator feedback have clean bases, are making tight contact with clean sockets, and the sockets have good solder connections. Sockets that are mounted with rivets to a pc board are especially susceptible to poor contact.? ? use the internal gain control (tomorrow I can give you the R-number) to reduce the maximum output to 10 Volts, perhaps even less depending on your needs. Reducing the output voltage lowers distortion.?
I¡¯ll add more in the morning when I¡¯m more awake.?
Jeremy?
On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 10:31 PM Bob Albert via Groups.Io <bob91343= [email protected]> wrote:
What's your secret Jeremy?? I have a couple of 200CDs but they are nothing to write home about regarding distortion.
Bob K6DX
On Saturday, December 14, 2019, 10:19:52 PM PST, Jeremy Nichols < jn6wfo@...> wrote:
My650A did fairly well distortion-wise but my favorite is the 200CD. With a few tricks and a little tweaking I was able to get it down to 0.04%, well below spec.
Jeremy
On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 9:43 PM Bob Albert via Groups.Io <bob91343= [email protected]> wrote:
I know this doesn't help but I did want to say that, in all my years of working with HP gear, this circuit is about the worst design.? I have repaired my 651A a couple of times and have never been able to get it to meet its distortion spec.? Mine works okay but I got tired of messing with it and it's no longer in line for use.? My main repair seemed to center about that FET in the middle of the diagram.? I tried a few different types without much success.? I ddi finally get it to oscillate on all ranges.? The distortion runs a bit over 0.5% worst case and the frequency calibration isn't as good as it could be, but it remains a useful instrument.
Perhaps you'd like to play with it.? The main thing I like is the nice attenuator.? Back in the day, I had a 650A that was a marvelous piece of gear.? Too bad this one didn't match that.
Bob
On Saturday, December 14, 2019, 08:35:49 PM PST, Don Bitters via Groups.Io <donbitters= [email protected]> wrote:
Almost certainly 50Hz AM modulation - 20msec per cycle.? Does touching the 645 chassis change the amplitude of the modulation, if so check the chassis ground at the power cord input, you may have an open ground pin.? If not check the power supplies for 50/100 Hz modulation, percentage of voltage of the supply, the worst looking supply is probably the culprit. Don Bitters
|
Re: Help to repair my HP654A Test Oscillator
What's your secret Jeremy?? I have a couple of 200CDs but they are nothing to write home about regarding distortion.
Bob K6DX
On Saturday, December 14, 2019, 10:19:52 PM PST, Jeremy Nichols <jn6wfo@...> wrote:
My650A did fairly well distortion-wise but my favorite is the 200CD. With a few tricks and a little tweaking I was able to get it down to 0.04%, well below spec.
Jeremy
On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 9:43 PM Bob Albert via Groups.Io <bob91343= [email protected]> wrote:
I know this doesn't help but I did want to say that, in all my years of working with HP gear, this circuit is about the worst design.? I have repaired my 651A a couple of times and have never been able to get it to meet its distortion spec.? Mine works okay but I got tired of messing with it and it's no longer in line for use.? My main repair seemed to center about that FET in the middle of the diagram.? I tried a few different types without much success.? I ddi finally get it to oscillate on all ranges.? The distortion runs a bit over 0.5% worst case and the frequency calibration isn't as good as it could be, but it remains a useful instrument.
Perhaps you'd like to play with it.? The main thing I like is the nice attenuator.? Back in the day, I had a 650A that was a marvelous piece of gear.? Too bad this one didn't match that.
Bob
On Saturday, December 14, 2019, 08:35:49 PM PST, Don Bitters via Groups.Io <donbitters= [email protected]> wrote:
Almost certainly 50Hz AM modulation - 20msec per cycle.? Does touching the 645 chassis change the amplitude of the modulation, if so check the chassis ground at the power cord input, you may have an open ground pin.? If not check the power supplies for 50/100 Hz modulation, percentage of voltage of the supply, the worst looking supply is probably the culprit. Don Bitters
|
Re: Help to repair my HP654A Test Oscillator
My650A did fairly well distortion-wise but my favorite is the 200CD. With a few tricks and a little tweaking I was able to get it down to 0.04%, well below spec.
Jeremy
On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 9:43 PM Bob Albert via Groups.Io <bob91343= [email protected]> wrote:
I know this doesn't help but I did want to say that, in all my years of working with HP gear, this circuit is about the worst design.? I have repaired my 651A a couple of times and have never been able to get it to meet its distortion spec.? Mine works okay but I got tired of messing with it and it's no longer in line for use.? My main repair seemed to center about that FET in the middle of the diagram.? I tried a few different types without much success.? I ddi finally get it to oscillate on all ranges.? The distortion runs a bit over 0.5% worst case and the frequency calibration isn't as good as it could be, but it remains a useful instrument.
Perhaps you'd like to play with it.? The main thing I like is the nice attenuator.? Back in the day, I had a 650A that was a marvelous piece of gear.? Too bad this one didn't match that.
Bob
On Saturday, December 14, 2019, 08:35:49 PM PST, Don Bitters via Groups.Io <donbitters= [email protected]> wrote:
Almost certainly 50Hz AM modulation - 20msec per cycle.? Does touching the 645 chassis change the amplitude of the modulation, if so check the chassis ground at the power cord input, you may have an open ground pin.? If not check the power supplies for 50/100 Hz modulation, percentage of voltage of the supply, the worst looking supply is probably the culprit. Don Bitters
|
Re: Help to repair my HP654A Test Oscillator
I know this doesn't help but I did want to say that, in all my years of working with HP gear, this circuit is about the worst design.? I have repaired my 651A a couple of times and have never been able to get it to meet its distortion spec.? Mine works okay but I got tired of messing with it and it's no longer in line for use.? My main repair seemed to center about that FET in the middle of the diagram.? I tried a few different types without much success.? I ddi finally get it to oscillate on all ranges.? The distortion runs a bit over 0.5% worst case and the frequency calibration isn't as good as it could be, but it remains a useful instrument.
Perhaps you'd like to play with it.? The main thing I like is the nice attenuator.? Back in the day, I had a 650A that was a marvelous piece of gear.? Too bad this one didn't match that.
Bob
On Saturday, December 14, 2019, 08:35:49 PM PST, Don Bitters via Groups.Io <donbitters@...> wrote:
Almost certainly 50Hz AM modulation - 20msec per cycle. ?Does touching the 645 chassis change the amplitude of the modulation, if so check the chassis ground at the power cord input, you may have an open ground pin. ?If not check the power supplies for 50/100 Hz modulation, percentage of voltage of the supply, the worst looking supply is probably the culprit. Don Bitters
|
Re: 8350B w/83590A repair advice
After I clean up and repair the damage to the boards on either side
of the pack, I remove the pack "socket" and wires, and throw it all
away.
There is no significant reason to keep it, as it only saves the front
panel settings... which aren't all that complicated.
-Chuck Harris
Paul Bicknell wrote:
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Show quoted text
Hi Chuck
That reminds me
I must order some new cells as all of my 8350 are running without any
batteries
Ok winter job I have collected a truck load of 8620 10 off
so must service and make good should salvage 8 out of the 10
Regards Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chuck Harris
Sent: 14 December 2019 15:45
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8350B w/83590A repair advice
Note that the 8350B has a 3- AA cell nicad battery,
repurposed from the HP-35 calculators. The pack is
on trickle charge whenever the 8350B is turned on,
and after a year, or two of that abuse, spews its
highly caustic guts all over the side of whatever
plugin is in the 8350B at the time.
The electrolyte tends to ruin the GPIB board, and
the plugin's main circuit board.
You might look there.
-Chuck Harris
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Re: 8350B w/83590A repair advice
It is the same exact pack as the HP35/45/55/65/67 used.
The pack is really, really unnecessary. Its purpose is
to prevent you from having to reset the front panel every
time you turn on the generator.
The damage can be extensive. The electrolyte gets under
the solder mask and etches away the traces.
On one of my 8350's, it did both the board the HPIB controller
plugged in, in the motherboard of the plugin.
Lots of scrubbing and patching.
-Chuck Harris
Mark Bielman wrote:
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Show quoted text
Thanks Chuck. I will check that when the unit shows up.
I've refurbished those HP 35 batteries in the past. Can do
that if necessary. (probably is)
In the 8350, is that a snap-in pack or individual cells?
Mark
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Re: Help to repair my HP654A Test Oscillator
Almost certainly 50Hz AM modulation - 20msec per cycle. ?Does touching the 645 chassis change the amplitude of the modulation, if so check the chassis ground at the power cord input, you may have an open ground pin. ?If not check the power supplies for 50/100 Hz modulation, percentage of voltage of the supply, the worst looking supply is probably the culprit. Don Bitters
|
Re: 8350B w/83590A repair advice
Mark:
Hi...Shift 92 and Shift 93 allow the RPG on the plug in to tune through some of the constants in the output tuning. See if you can find a number on the display that solves the output issues. be careful to test band edges and the high end at 20 GHz as these drop out when the mid of a band is peaked.
Really helps to have a network analyzer so you can see the whole power output vs frequency trace. In fact, I'd never attempt to align one of these plug-ins with out a network analyzer (scaler is fine.
The manual has instructions for aligning the A6, A7 abnd A8 card sets that run the YIG and YTO. I'd suggest you start with the -10V adjustment and do everything in order through FREQUENCY ACCURACY.
Dan in Chandler AZ
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Re: 8350B w/83590A repair advice
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019, Paul Bicknell wrote: Eh... As I said I have a fully working/refurbished/calibrated 83570A but that is a single-band 18-26.5 GHz plug-in, not a wide range one. As a matter of fact I would recommend to get several narrow-band plug-ins instead of single all-over-the-range one. Those are much easier to adjust/calibrate as they don't have to make compromises for very low ranges and very high frequencies at the same time and they are simpler. At the very least, if you want a full coverage from 10MHz to high GHz do _NOT_ buy a 20 or 26.5GHz plugins going down to 10MHz like e.g. 83592x ones. Better get a same one _WITHOUT_ the lowest band (e.g. 83590x) and get a separate 83522A for that lowest band. Hi looking for a working 26.5 Ghz plug in for a 8350
Regards Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sergey
Kubushyn
Sent: 15 December 2019 01:45
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8350B w/83590A repair advice
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019, peter bunge wrote:
Check which unit has the problems.
Best done with a plug-in you can trust. Don't tinker until you know which
is the bad unit. It is almost certainly the plug-in. 8350B itself is a simple device having
almost no influence on plug-in performance.
Those 8350B plug-ins are very tricky to adjust and calibrate. Their output
is a product of several oscillators and filters that all must be tuned
properly. The most difficult is 83592B (and other wide range devices) LOW
frequency range that is a product of 2 several-GHz oscillators so it is
EXTREMELY sensitive to proper adjustments -- you have one of those very
slightly off and there is no lowest band output at all. Zero. The same is
true for other ranges but sensitivity is much lower so relatively big
misalignment would still produce SOME output.
I spent a week trying to calibrate 83592B and put it aside for a time being
still not fully calibrated. It is very complex device and different settings
all affect each other so you have to re-do calibration multiple times.
I've got two 8340B instruments since that so I lost all interest in 8350B
and its plugins so they are gathering dust right now. I've also got Wiltron
6669B that goes up to 40GHz that works somehow but it is the same kind of
instrument as 8350B, just with everything from all possible plug-ins built
into single instrument so it also begs for proper alignment/calibration. It
works but produces something far from sinewave on the lowest band so it
definitely has to be re-adjusted from scratch.
BTW, if somebody is interested I can list those 2 fully working and
calibrated 8350B mainframes I have as well as fully working fully
refurbished and calibrated 83570A plug-in as well as several different
plug-ins in various refurbisment/adjustment/calibration states and some
partial units for parts as I don't need them anymore and have no time to
waste on them. I do also have printed manuals on almost all of those that I
would also rather get rid of. Haven't done it so far as there are too much
work on my calendar so I'd rather spend time on something else but if
somebody is interested I can make a list and either sell those direct or
list them on EBay.
BTW, there is little sense in putting new batteries in 8350B (although I
did) as they back up RAM that only holds last settings, nothing else. There
are no calibration constants there or something else that might've been of
any importance. It will just power-up in a default state if batteries are
dead or missing, nothing else. All settings are pure mechanical adjustments
that don't require any battery to persist. --- * * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * *
|
Re: 8350B w/83590A repair advice
|
Re: 8350B w/83590A repair advice
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019, Paul Bicknell wrote: Put it on my web site at: Not of stellar quality but pretty decent, with schematics, drawings, parts lists and so on. Hi do you have the service manual for the Wiltron 6669B
As I have a 6669A
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sergey
Kubushyn
Sent: 15 December 2019 01:45
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8350B w/83590A repair advice
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019, peter bunge wrote:
Check which unit has the problems.
Best done with a plug-in you can trust. Don't tinker until you know which
is the bad unit. It is almost certainly the plug-in. 8350B itself is a simple device having
almost no influence on plug-in performance.
Those 8350B plug-ins are very tricky to adjust and calibrate. Their output
is a product of several oscillators and filters that all must be tuned
properly. The most difficult is 83592B (and other wide range devices) LOW
frequency range that is a product of 2 several-GHz oscillators so it is
EXTREMELY sensitive to proper adjustments -- you have one of those very
slightly off and there is no lowest band output at all. Zero. The same is
true for other ranges but sensitivity is much lower so relatively big
misalignment would still produce SOME output.
I spent a week trying to calibrate 83592B and put it aside for a time being
still not fully calibrated. It is very complex device and different settings
all affect each other so you have to re-do calibration multiple times.
I've got two 8340B instruments since that so I lost all interest in 8350B
and its plugins so they are gathering dust right now. I've also got Wiltron
6669B that goes up to 40GHz that works somehow but it is the same kind of
instrument as 8350B, just with everything from all possible plug-ins built
into single instrument so it also begs for proper alignment/calibration. It
works but produces something far from sinewave on the lowest band so it
definitely has to be re-adjusted from scratch.
BTW, if somebody is interested I can list those 2 fully working and
calibrated 8350B mainframes I have as well as fully working fully
refurbished and calibrated 83570A plug-in as well as several different
plug-ins in various refurbisment/adjustment/calibration states and some
partial units for parts as I don't need them anymore and have no time to
waste on them. I do also have printed manuals on almost all of those that I
would also rather get rid of. Haven't done it so far as there are too much
work on my calendar so I'd rather spend time on something else but if
somebody is interested I can make a list and either sell those direct or
list them on EBay.
BTW, there is little sense in putting new batteries in 8350B (although I
did) as they back up RAM that only holds last settings, nothing else. There
are no calibration constants there or something else that might've been of
any importance. It will just power-up in a default state if batteries are
dead or missing, nothing else. All settings are pure mechanical adjustments
that don't require any battery to persist. --- * * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * *
|
Re: 8350B w/83590A repair advice
Hi Paul. I wish the scanned copy of this manual was better.
If I get a "real" one, I will sac and post.
mark
|
Re: 8350B w/83590A repair advice
Hi Mark
?
You have to understand the history behind manuals
and the gentleman¡¯s agreement we have with HP
A lot of the manuals on this HP site have
been supplied by members of this group ?/ before? Groups IO
So if we get a better scan we can offer it
to HP as a replacement
Hope you understand? Regards Paul ?
?
?
Hello Serge,
Good but somewhat discouraging info. Agree that the mainframe is straight
forward and of no concern. But those plug-ins look problematic.
I have a service manual for the 83592 (in OK pdf) and the cal procedures are
challenging, especially w/o specific (HP) test equipment.
Will do the best I can with what I have. Will check RF levels 1st to hopefully
point to the affected block(s).
Hoping (mentioned previously) that the service manual I bought is the real
thing. The Keysight one sucks.
Mark in Oregon
KJ7CYN
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
|
Re: 8350B w/83590A repair advice
Hello Serge,
Good but somewhat discouraging info. Agree that the mainframe is straight forward and of no concern. But those plug-ins look problematic.
I have a service manual for the 83592 (in OK pdf) and the cal procedures are challenging, especially w/o specific (HP) test equipment.
Will do the best I can with what I have. Will check RF levels 1st to hopefully point to the affected block(s).
Hoping (mentioned previously) that the service manual I bought is the real thing. The Keysight one sucks.
Mark in Oregon
KJ7CYN
|
Re: 8350B w/83590A repair advice
Hi looking for a working 26.5 Ghz plug in for a 8350
Regards Paul
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Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected][mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Sergey Kubushyn Sent: 15 December 2019 01:45 To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8350B w/83590A repair advice On Sat, 14 Dec 2019, peter bunge wrote: Check which unit has the problems.
Best done with a plug-in you can trust. Don't tinker until you know which
is the bad unit. It is almost certainly the plug-in. 8350B itself is a simple device having almost no influence on plug-in performance. Those 8350B plug-ins are very tricky to adjust and calibrate. Their output is a product of several oscillators and filters that all must be tuned properly. The most difficult is 83592B (and other wide range devices) LOW frequency range that is a product of 2 several-GHz oscillators so it is EXTREMELY sensitive to proper adjustments -- you have one of those very slightly off and there is no lowest band output at all. Zero. The same is true for other ranges but sensitivity is much lower so relatively big misalignment would still produce SOME output. I spent a week trying to calibrate 83592B and put it aside for a time being still not fully calibrated. It is very complex device and different settings all affect each other so you have to re-do calibration multiple times. I've got two 8340B instruments since that so I lost all interest in 8350B and its plugins so they are gathering dust right now. I've also got Wiltron 6669B that goes up to 40GHz that works somehow but it is the same kind of instrument as 8350B, just with everything from all possible plug-ins built into single instrument so it also begs for proper alignment/calibration. It works but produces something far from sinewave on the lowest band so it definitely has to be re-adjusted from scratch. BTW, if somebody is interested I can list those 2 fully working and calibrated 8350B mainframes I have as well as fully working fully refurbished and calibrated 83570A plug-in as well as several different plug-ins in various refurbisment/adjustment/calibration states and some partial units for parts as I don't need them anymore and have no time to waste on them. I do also have printed manuals on almost all of those that I would also rather get rid of. Haven't done it so far as there are too much work on my calendar so I'd rather spend time on something else but if somebody is interested I can make a list and either sell those direct or list them on EBay. BTW, there is little sense in putting new batteries in 8350B (although I did) as they back up RAM that only holds last settings, nothing else. There are no calibration constants there or something else that might've been of any importance. It will just power-up in a default state if batteries are dead or missing, nothing else. All settings are pure mechanical adjustments that don't require any battery to persist. --- * * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * * ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
|
Re: 8350B w/83590A repair advice
Hi do you have the service manual for the Wiltron 6669B
As I have a 6669A
Paul
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected][mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Sergey Kubushyn Sent: 15 December 2019 01:45 To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8350B w/83590A repair advice On Sat, 14 Dec 2019, peter bunge wrote: Check which unit has the problems.
Best done with a plug-in you can trust. Don't tinker until you know which
is the bad unit. It is almost certainly the plug-in. 8350B itself is a simple device having almost no influence on plug-in performance. Those 8350B plug-ins are very tricky to adjust and calibrate. Their output is a product of several oscillators and filters that all must be tuned properly. The most difficult is 83592B (and other wide range devices) LOW frequency range that is a product of 2 several-GHz oscillators so it is EXTREMELY sensitive to proper adjustments -- you have one of those very slightly off and there is no lowest band output at all. Zero. The same is true for other ranges but sensitivity is much lower so relatively big misalignment would still produce SOME output. I spent a week trying to calibrate 83592B and put it aside for a time being still not fully calibrated. It is very complex device and different settings all affect each other so you have to re-do calibration multiple times. I've got two 8340B instruments since that so I lost all interest in 8350B and its plugins so they are gathering dust right now. I've also got Wiltron 6669B that goes up to 40GHz that works somehow but it is the same kind of instrument as 8350B, just with everything from all possible plug-ins built into single instrument so it also begs for proper alignment/calibration. It works but produces something far from sinewave on the lowest band so it definitely has to be re-adjusted from scratch. BTW, if somebody is interested I can list those 2 fully working and calibrated 8350B mainframes I have as well as fully working fully refurbished and calibrated 83570A plug-in as well as several different plug-ins in various refurbisment/adjustment/calibration states and some partial units for parts as I don't need them anymore and have no time to waste on them. I do also have printed manuals on almost all of those that I would also rather get rid of. Haven't done it so far as there are too much work on my calendar so I'd rather spend time on something else but if somebody is interested I can make a list and either sell those direct or list them on EBay. BTW, there is little sense in putting new batteries in 8350B (although I did) as they back up RAM that only holds last settings, nothing else. There are no calibration constants there or something else that might've been of any importance. It will just power-up in a default state if batteries are dead or missing, nothing else. All settings are pure mechanical adjustments that don't require any battery to persist. --- * * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * * ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18 Internal Virus Database is out of date.
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Re: 8350B w/83590A repair advice
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019, peter bunge wrote: Check which unit has the problems.
Best done with a plug-in you can trust. Don't tinker until you know which
is the bad unit. It is almost certainly the plug-in. 8350B itself is a simple device having almost no influence on plug-in performance. Those 8350B plug-ins are very tricky to adjust and calibrate. Their output is a product of several oscillators and filters that all must be tuned properly. The most difficult is 83592B (and other wide range devices) LOW frequency range that is a product of 2 several-GHz oscillators so it is EXTREMELY sensitive to proper adjustments -- you have one of those very slightly off and there is no lowest band output at all. Zero. The same is true for other ranges but sensitivity is much lower so relatively big misalignment would still produce SOME output. I spent a week trying to calibrate 83592B and put it aside for a time being still not fully calibrated. It is very complex device and different settings all affect each other so you have to re-do calibration multiple times. I've got two 8340B instruments since that so I lost all interest in 8350B and its plugins so they are gathering dust right now. I've also got Wiltron 6669B that goes up to 40GHz that works somehow but it is the same kind of instrument as 8350B, just with everything from all possible plug-ins built into single instrument so it also begs for proper alignment/calibration. It works but produces something far from sinewave on the lowest band so it definitely has to be re-adjusted from scratch. BTW, if somebody is interested I can list those 2 fully working and calibrated 8350B mainframes I have as well as fully working fully refurbished and calibrated 83570A plug-in as well as several different plug-ins in various refurbisment/adjustment/calibration states and some partial units for parts as I don't need them anymore and have no time to waste on them. I do also have printed manuals on almost all of those that I would also rather get rid of. Haven't done it so far as there are too much work on my calendar so I'd rather spend time on something else but if somebody is interested I can make a list and either sell those direct or list them on EBay. BTW, there is little sense in putting new batteries in 8350B (although I did) as they back up RAM that only holds last settings, nothing else. There are no calibration constants there or something else that might've been of any importance. It will just power-up in a default state if batteries are dead or missing, nothing else. All settings are pure mechanical adjustments that don't require any battery to persist. --- * * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * *
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Paul Bicknell
Jeremy Nichols
Sergey Kubushyn