Re: Question Regarding the AC Probe Diode for an HP 410C
Barry,
?
Interesting observation regarding the different filament voltages of the EA53 & 2-01C diodes.
?
I wanted to note a couple of things I saw while doing a short investigation of this matter.? First, looking at the probe itself there seems to be no changes internally that would affect the filament voltage of the tube.? But looking at a couple of 410C schematics there might be a hidden adjustment for the voltage difference.
?
Looking at both an earlier manual (00410-90005 at ) and a little later manual (00410-9007 at ) I noticed that there is a 100 ohm resistor placed across the filament supply line at the panel jack.? I¡¯m wondering if HP is utilizing the current limiting of the 6 volt transformer winding to load it down a bit and lower the voltage by impressing a heaver load with the addition of the resistor in parallel with the tube filament.? This could also be affected by different filament currents between the two tubes allowing the 5V tube to drop the voltage to a lower level than the 6V one (anyone have the filament specs on these two tubes?).?
?
Have you measured the voltage at the panel jack for the probe both with the probes connected containing different tubes and without them?
?
Also, with regards to testing your 2-01C, could it possibly be gassy?? I have seen other tubes looking rather happy with glowing filaments while they have lost their vacuum ¨C but only for a reasonably short time.
?
Greg
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On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 08:58 PM, n4buq wrote:
I have two HP 410C meters. The probe (HP 11036A) in my first one uses the EA53 which is designed for a 6.3VAC filament. The probe for my newest one has the 2-01C which is designed for a 5.0VAC filament.
I know that the 410B (I have two of those as well) has an adjustment for the filament voltage so it can use either tube; however, the 410C doesn't have that adjustment.
I always thought that all the 11036A probes were compatible with all 410Cs but perhaps not. Were some 410Cs made for a 2-01C and others for the EA53? If so, is it possible this is tied to a serial number prefix and the EA53 probes are only to be used with certain prefixes and the 2-01C used for the other prefixes? All the schematics I've found show 6.0VAC as the heater voltage supply so it seems odd to me that the 2-01C was used at that voltage but maybe so?
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
|
Re: What would you do if you had some test equipment with Serial No: 0000001?
Embedded Windows versions tend to have longer life cycles, even according to Microsoft!
But the issue remains.? ?Pity they also use obscure hardware drivers etc, after all, other than 16bit code, you can run most legacy programs on the current OS versions without trouble.
73.
Dave G0WBX
|
Re: Low cost, OSSW/OSHW AR488 GPIB-USB adapter
It's a standard 24 pin Centronics connector. I bought a bunch of male IDC connectors, but neglected to get any female :-(
For a minimal build you need an Uno or Nano, a piece of ribbon cable and one or more male 24 pin IDC Centronics plugs.
for more details take a look at this thread:
This might also be of interest:
Have Fun!
Reg
|
Re: Testing a 2-01C Diode
With my 410B I routinely measure the output of my TL922 through the HF range at something over 200 V rms but the current through the diode is limited by its load.? The input signal is coupled via a 2 pF capacitor I think which is just the tube fixture.
It's a half wave rectifier and the meter reads the capacitor charge.? So if you don't change the circuit it should be able to be tested.? But recheck the assembly of the probe from the tip to the tube to make sure there is coupling.? And verify that there is a dc path.
Bob
On Saturday, July 27, 2019, 10:37:59 AM PDT, Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:
Well, it is just a diode.
Take a 9V battery, a resistor as a load, and your DVM,
and try the battery this way, and then that way, and if the
current isn't there in one direction, but is in the other
direction, it is probably good.
The specs are available on the web, so you should be able to
pick your load resistor to match the typical current as specified
in the data sheet.
Or, you could? put it on a curve tracer...
-Chuck
n4buq wrote:
> Still working on the recently-acquired 11036A which isn't working.? I've checked the probe wiring and don't see anything amiss.? When it powers up, the tube gets hot so the heater is evidently working; however, I get no signals back to the meter.
>
> Since I have another probe (this one uses the EA53), I tried that with the meter and it works fine so the problem has to be somewhere in the probe and I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't the tube but am curious as to how that might be considering the heater works (which, I presume, is the primary failure point with these).
>
> Before I go spending money on a rather expensive tube, is there simple way I can test this one out of the probe?? If I supply heater voltage (via an auxiliary power supply), can I place the diode across the signal source and expect to see half-wave rectification?? If I do this, should precautions be made to limit the current through the tube and, if so, how much current is safe?? Unless I'm misreading/misunderstanding the specs, the tube is only rated at 1mA DC which seems quite small but, again, I might be misunderstanding that rating.
>
> BTW, I'm supplying the AC signal with an HP 3310B function generator.
>
> Thanks,
> Barry - N4BUQ
>
>
>
>
>
|
Re: What would you do if you had some test equipment with Serial No: 0000001?
On 7/27/19 2:00 PM, Brian L. Stuart wrote: I have one data point that does provide a little hope. There's a friend
of mine who has done well a few times in the startup game. However,
in his most recent venture, he had a really bad experience with the
VC types who where following the "burn bright and fast to get the
attention of an IPO or and acquisition" philosophy. As expected, it
fell flat. But he was able to get the IP and even the name returned
to him, and has restarted in a smaller form that allows him to focus
on customers the way he always wanted. And he's made it quite
clear that he has no interest in taking VC funding again. So his
customers can count on staying the priority. That's fantastic, he's enlightened. I'm not looking to "get hired", but is he looking for tech people to work with? Alas, the fact that this is remarkable because it's so rare is itself
depressing. Very. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Re: What would you do if you had some test equipment with Serial No: 0000001?
On 7/27/19 1:44 PM, Stephen Hanselman wrote: And we all have to say a special thank you to Carly for the abrupt left turn in HP¡¯s operating philosophy. But she was so highly qualified to run a tech company, with her degree in history! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Re: What would you do if you had some test equipment with Serial No: 0000001?
Left turn? More like a 180.
Peter
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On Jul 27, 2019, at 1:44 PM, Stephen Hanselman <kc4sw.io@...> wrote:
And we all have to say a special thank you to Carly for the abrupt left turn in HP¡¯s operating philosophy.
Regards,
Stephen Hanselman
Datagate Systems, LLC
On Jul 27, 2019, at 12:16, Dave McGuire <mcguire@...> wrote:
On 7/27/19 10:33 AM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:
It is my opinion that this short term,
what-can-you-do-for-me-this-quarter mentality is neither good for the
company nor society in general. Positive feedback without control
almost always ends in disaster. About fifteen years ago I had a very interesting, long conversation
with a newly-hired co-worker who happened to have a degree in economics.
I'd been through a few corporate startup/IPO cycles at that point, and
I told him about how I thought this huge shift toward not seeing past
the end of the current quarter dramatically encourages destructive
behavior, as does the whole "end goal" of the IPO...after which a
corporation has but one customer to please and care about: the body of
stockholders. The behaviors encouraged by these attitutes are not
conducive to the long-term survival of the company, and almost always
result in the company screwing over its real customers and being viewed
as "evil" by anyone with a functioning brain.
He essentially nodded and said, "yes, of course." He explained that
this is textbook economics, and people who pursue a degree in economics
are taught this in their first year.
We as a society must stamp out this behavior, but it won't happen
until the whole thing just self-destructs. Some argue that we're seeing
the beginning of that now, and I can't really disagree.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: What would you do if you had some test equipment with Serial No: 0000001?
On Saturday, July 27, 2019, 1:17:00 PM EDT, Dave McGuire <mcguire@...> wrote:
> I told him about how I thought this huge shift toward not seeing past
> the end of the current quarter dramatically encourages destructive
> behavior, as does the whole "end goal" of the IPO...after which a
> corporation has but one customer to please and care about: the body of
> stockholders. The behaviors encouraged by these attitutes are not
> conducive to the long-term survival of the company, and almost always
> ...
> We as a society must stamp out this behavior, but it won't happen
> until the whole thing just self-destructs. Some argue that we're seeing
> the beginning of that now, and I can't really disagree.
I have one data point that does provide a little hope. There's a friend
of mine who has done well a few times in the startup game. However,
in his most recent venture, he had a really bad experience with the
VC types who where following the "burn bright and fast to get the
attention of an IPO or and acquisition" philosophy. As expected, it
fell flat. But he was able to get the IP and even the name returned
to him, and has restarted in a smaller form that allows him to focus
on customers the way he always wanted. And he's made it quite
clear that he has no interest in taking VC funding again. So his
customers can count on staying the priority.
Alas, the fact that this is remarkable because it's so rare is itself
depressing.
BLS
|
Re: What would you do if you had some test equipment with Serial No: 0000001?
And we all have to say a special thank you to Carly for the abrupt left turn in HP¡¯s operating philosophy.
Regards,
Stephen Hanselman
Datagate Systems, LLC
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Show quoted text
On Jul 27, 2019, at 12:16, Dave McGuire <mcguire@...> wrote:
On 7/27/19 10:33 AM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:
It is my opinion that this short term,
what-can-you-do-for-me-this-quarter mentality is neither good for the
company nor society in general. Positive feedback without control
almost always ends in disaster. About fifteen years ago I had a very interesting, long conversation
with a newly-hired co-worker who happened to have a degree in economics.
I'd been through a few corporate startup/IPO cycles at that point, and
I told him about how I thought this huge shift toward not seeing past
the end of the current quarter dramatically encourages destructive
behavior, as does the whole "end goal" of the IPO...after which a
corporation has but one customer to please and care about: the body of
stockholders. The behaviors encouraged by these attitutes are not
conducive to the long-term survival of the company, and almost always
result in the company screwing over its real customers and being viewed
as "evil" by anyone with a functioning brain.
He essentially nodded and said, "yes, of course." He explained that
this is textbook economics, and people who pursue a degree in economics
are taught this in their first year.
We as a society must stamp out this behavior, but it won't happen
until the whole thing just self-destructs. Some argue that we're seeing
the beginning of that now, and I can't really disagree.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: Testing a 2-01C Diode
Well, it is just a diode.
Take a 9V battery, a resistor as a load, and your DVM,
and try the battery this way, and then that way, and if the
current isn't there in one direction, but is in the other
direction, it is probably good.
The specs are available on the web, so you should be able to
pick your load resistor to match the typical current as specified
in the data sheet.
Or, you could put it on a curve tracer...
-Chuck
n4buq wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Still working on the recently-acquired 11036A which isn't working. I've checked the probe wiring and don't see anything amiss. When it powers up, the tube gets hot so the heater is evidently working; however, I get no signals back to the meter.
Since I have another probe (this one uses the EA53), I tried that with the meter and it works fine so the problem has to be somewhere in the probe and I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't the tube but am curious as to how that might be considering the heater works (which, I presume, is the primary failure point with these).
Before I go spending money on a rather expensive tube, is there simple way I can test this one out of the probe? If I supply heater voltage (via an auxiliary power supply), can I place the diode across the signal source and expect to see half-wave rectification? If I do this, should precautions be made to limit the current through the tube and, if so, how much current is safe? Unless I'm misreading/misunderstanding the specs, the tube is only rated at 1mA DC which seems quite small but, again, I might be misunderstanding that rating.
BTW, I'm supplying the AC signal with an HP 3310B function generator.
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
|
Re: What would you do if you had some test equipment with Serial No: 0000001?
On 7/27/19 10:33 AM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: It is my opinion that this short term,
what-can-you-do-for-me-this-quarter mentality is neither good for the
company nor society in general.? Positive feedback without control
almost always ends in disaster. About fifteen years ago I had a very interesting, long conversation with a newly-hired co-worker who happened to have a degree in economics. I'd been through a few corporate startup/IPO cycles at that point, and I told him about how I thought this huge shift toward not seeing past the end of the current quarter dramatically encourages destructive behavior, as does the whole "end goal" of the IPO...after which a corporation has but one customer to please and care about: the body of stockholders. The behaviors encouraged by these attitutes are not conducive to the long-term survival of the company, and almost always result in the company screwing over its real customers and being viewed as "evil" by anyone with a functioning brain. He essentially nodded and said, "yes, of course." He explained that this is textbook economics, and people who pursue a degree in economics are taught this in their first year. We as a society must stamp out this behavior, but it won't happen until the whole thing just self-destructs. Some argue that we're seeing the beginning of that now, and I can't really disagree. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Re: What would you do if you had some test equipment with Serial No: 0000001?
Almost exactly what I have in big lithium ion packs, although I don't have them hooked up at the moment.? I don't have a charger which could put out 5 kW of 28.8 volts to recharge them in 4 hours.
Peter
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On 7/27/2019 12:39 PM, Pete Manfre wrote: Both.? ?Have 24v @ 1920ah BIG
P
On Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 11:46 AM Peter Gottlieb <hpnpilot@... <mailto:hpnpilot@...>> wrote:
That's respectable for a home system.? Do you have any energy storage, or are
you just doing net metering?
This weekend I'm working on the high level design of a 200 MW energy storage
system which connects at transmission level.? Where it is proposed it should
reduce electric rates by about 20% over the full 20 year contract.
About now is where I wished engineers worked on commission, like everyone in
sales, rather than flat salary.
Peter
On 7/27/2019 11:37 AM, Pete Manfre wrote:
> Talk of power grid solutions¡ this is mine¡.
>
> Pete wa2odo
>
> On Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 11:29 AM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...
<mailto:cfharris@...>
> <mailto:cfharris@... <mailto:cfharris@...>>> wrote:
>
>? ? ?Knowing what I know about your involvement in battery backed up
>? ? ?power grid generation systems; your positive feedback statement,
>? ? ?causes me to have some truly scary visions...
>
>? ? ?-Chuck Harris
>
>? ? ?Peter Gottlieb wrote:
>? ? ?> It is my opinion that this short term,
>? ? ?what-can-you-do-for-me-this-quarter mentality
>? ? ?> is neither good for the company nor society in general. Positive
>? ? ?feedback without
>? ? ?> control almost always ends in disaster.
>? ? ?>
>? ? ?>
>? ? ?> On 7/27/2019 10:07 AM, Oz-in-DFW wrote:
>? ? ?>>
>? ? ?>> There's also the fact that they live under the tyranny of the
financial
>? ? ?quarter and
>? ? ?>> get any long term thinking beat mercilessly out of them.
>? ? ?>>
|
Re: What would you do if you had some test equipment with Serial No: 0000001?
Both.? ?Have 24v @ 1920ah BIG
P
On Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 11:46 AM Peter Gottlieb < hpnpilot@...> wrote: That's respectable for a home system.? Do you have any energy storage, or are
you just doing net metering?
This weekend I'm working on the high level design of a 200 MW energy storage
system which connects at transmission level.? Where it is proposed it should
reduce electric rates by about 20% over the full 20 year contract.
About now is where I wished engineers worked on commission, like everyone in
sales, rather than flat salary.
Peter
On 7/27/2019 11:37 AM, Pete Manfre wrote:
> Talk of power grid solutions¡ this is mine¡.
>
> Pete wa2odo
>
> On Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 11:29 AM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...
> <mailto:cfharris@...>> wrote:
>
>? ? ?Knowing what I know about your involvement in battery backed up
>? ? ?power grid generation systems; your positive feedback statement,
>? ? ?causes me to have some truly scary visions...
>
>? ? ?-Chuck Harris
>
>? ? ?Peter Gottlieb wrote:
>? ? ?> It is my opinion that this short term,
>? ? ?what-can-you-do-for-me-this-quarter mentality
>? ? ?> is neither good for the company nor society in general. Positive
>? ? ?feedback without
>? ? ?> control almost always ends in disaster.
>? ? ?>
>? ? ?>
>? ? ?> On 7/27/2019 10:07 AM, Oz-in-DFW wrote:
>? ? ?>>
>? ? ?>> There's also the fact that they live under the tyranny of the financial
>? ? ?quarter and
>? ? ?>> get any long term thinking beat mercilessly out of them.
>? ? ?>>
|
Still working on the recently-acquired 11036A which isn't working. I've checked the probe wiring and don't see anything amiss. When it powers up, the tube gets hot so the heater is evidently working; however, I get no signals back to the meter.
Since I have another probe (this one uses the EA53), I tried that with the meter and it works fine so the problem has to be somewhere in the probe and I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't the tube but am curious as to how that might be considering the heater works (which, I presume, is the primary failure point with these).
Before I go spending money on a rather expensive tube, is there simple way I can test this one out of the probe? If I supply heater voltage (via an auxiliary power supply), can I place the diode across the signal source and expect to see half-wave rectification? If I do this, should precautions be made to limit the current through the tube and, if so, how much current is safe? Unless I'm misreading/misunderstanding the specs, the tube is only rated at 1mA DC which seems quite small but, again, I might be misunderstanding that rating.
BTW, I'm supplying the AC signal with an HP 3310B function generator.
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
|
Re: What would you do if you had some test equipment with Serial No: 0000001?
That's respectable for a home system.? Do you have any energy storage, or are you just doing net metering?
This weekend I'm working on the high level design of a 200 MW energy storage system which connects at transmission level.? Where it is proposed it should reduce electric rates by about 20% over the full 20 year contract.
About now is where I wished engineers worked on commission, like everyone in sales, rather than flat salary.
Peter
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 7/27/2019 11:37 AM, Pete Manfre wrote: Talk of power grid solutions¡ this is mine¡.
Pete wa2odo
On Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 11:29 AM Chuck Harris <cfharris@... <mailto:cfharris@...>> wrote:
Knowing what I know about your involvement in battery backed up
power grid generation systems; your positive feedback statement,
causes me to have some truly scary visions...
-Chuck Harris
Peter Gottlieb wrote:
> It is my opinion that this short term,
what-can-you-do-for-me-this-quarter mentality
> is neither good for the company nor society in general. Positive
feedback without
> control almost always ends in disaster.
>
>
> On 7/27/2019 10:07 AM, Oz-in-DFW wrote:
>>
>> There's also the fact that they live under the tyranny of the financial
quarter and
>> get any long term thinking beat mercilessly out of them.
>>
|
Re: What would you do if you had some test equipment with Serial No: 0000001?
Talk of power grid solutions¡ this is mine¡.?
Pete wa2odo?
On Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 11:29 AM Chuck Harris < cfharris@...> wrote: Knowing what I know about your involvement in battery backed up
power grid generation systems; your positive feedback statement,
causes me to have some truly scary visions...
-Chuck Harris
Peter Gottlieb wrote:
> It is my opinion that this short term, what-can-you-do-for-me-this-quarter mentality
> is neither good for the company nor society in general.? Positive feedback without
> control almost always ends in disaster.
>
>
> On 7/27/2019 10:07 AM, Oz-in-DFW wrote:
>>
>> There's also the fact that they live under the tyranny of the financial quarter and
>> get any long term thinking beat mercilessly out of them.
>> _._,_._,_
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
|
Re: Low cost, OSSW/OSHW AR488 GPIB-USB adapter
On 7/26/19 12:02 AM, David Platt wrote: The VXI-11 "server" software would need to be written, of course... something to implement the VXI-11 RPCs and multiplex access to the bus via the GPIOs.? As I understand it, it's not terribly difficult to access the Pi GPIOs at fairly high speeds via memory-mapped access, so one should be able to get pretty good throughput without needing an FPGA or dedicated protocol chip. Sounds like a good project to talk about on eevblog. Might find collaborators.
|
Re: What would you do if you had some test equipment with Serial No: 0000001?
Knowing what I know about your involvement in battery backed up
power grid generation systems; your positive feedback statement,
causes me to have some truly scary visions...
-Chuck Harris
Peter Gottlieb wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
It is my opinion that this short term, what-can-you-do-for-me-this-quarter mentality
is neither good for the company nor society in general. Positive feedback without
control almost always ends in disaster.
On 7/27/2019 10:07 AM, Oz-in-DFW wrote:
There's also the fact that they live under the tyranny of the financial quarter and
get any long term thinking beat mercilessly out of them.
_._,_._,_
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Re: What would you do if you had some test equipment with Serial No: 0000001?
There were many many "Bill and Dave" anecdotes to that effect. They were used to inculcate the company ethos when opening new sites and locations.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 27/07/19 15:33, Peter Gottlieb wrote: It is my opinion that this short term, what-can-you-do-for-me-this-quarter mentality is neither good for the company nor society in general. Positive feedback without control almost always ends in disaster.
On 7/27/2019 10:07 AM, Oz-in-DFW wrote:
There's also the fact that they live under the tyranny of the financial quarter and get any long term thinking beat mercilessly out of them.
_._,_._,_
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Re: What would you do if you had some test equipment with Serial No: 0000001?
It is my opinion that this short term, what-can-you-do-for-me-this-quarter mentality is neither good for the company nor society in general.? Positive feedback without control almost always ends in disaster.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 7/27/2019 10:07 AM, Oz-in-DFW wrote:
There's also the fact that they live under the tyranny of the financial quarter and get any long term thinking beat mercilessly out of them.
_._,_._,_
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Dave McGuire
