It is a bit strange that the length switch on the HP4192A is 0 and 1 meter positions but the cable with the 16047B is about 20" and it is specified for below 2 MHz.
The 16048A is specified as 1 meter length and good to 10 MHz on the HP4275A.. It is not always obvious which instrument the various fixtures are intended for as many were made years (10 or more) after an instrument was made.
A test with (unknown) teflon coax worked with the 4192A but the length switch had no effect. I will check again at max frequency. Comparisons with test capacitor shown below.
PeterB
DSC_9119.JPG DSC_9123.JPG

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 5:27 PM Paul Bicknell <paul@... <mailto:paul@...>> wrote:

Hi the only thought I have is as follows

Coax cables used for charge amps? as in Pc / volt often have carbon type
of material over the dielectric then the screen? to reduce any mechanical
noise

Just a thought

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*From:*[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *peter bunge
*Sent:* 14 April 2019 22:18
*To:* [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Type of coax for Impedance
Analyzer Test Fixtures

Does anyone have any idea what kind of coax is used for the 16048A,
example below, or other test fixtures.
HP say not to substitute. They are in various colours.
Are they 50 ohm or just shielded wire? Perhaps low capacity?
My dielectric test fixture is near completion and I need cables. It would
be nice to have the four coax in one sheath.

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <>
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15884 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.

Hello Folks,

now that the move is complete for like a month, it looks like it did - after all - claim a victim. Today, I tried to power on my 53310A MDO, and saw a totally confused screen display (as if the screen was unable to sync).


I powered the unit off (forgot to make a picture, silly me) and turned it on again. Now, nothing shows up at all on the screen and the "hello world beep" also is not audible. All the LEDs on the A3 assembly are lit red, and stay on.


Does anyone of you have experience with this issue? I already have the service manual and will dig in soon (exwife in hospital), but just wanted to ask ahead if anyone already saw the problem...


Tam

Ok, but if the generator goes to 3GHz, you might just be within the high band. My 8562A has high band from 2.75GHz (low band is up to 2.9GHz). It has coax relay between high and low, so it doesn't sweep across, you have to select either low or high band, so that's why there is an overlap..

?

You might also use another spectrum analyser,? if it has 1st lo-out, that will most likely be in the 3-8GHz range 0, so then set it to zero span, just be aware, the level will be around 15dbm.

?

Askild

On Sun, 14 Apr 2019, 12:01 Dave Ireland, <mirrors@...> wrote:

Askild

?

Unfortunately the signal generator I have goes to 3GHz and also the Spectrum Analyser also only goes to 3GHz (found an Anritsu Spectrum Master I forgot was a SA as well).

?

I did inject 310.7MHz at -31dBm into the third mixer I get a trace on the screen at -32dBm.

?

Amir doesn't think that is correct but I can't find anything in the manual to what it should be, rather a complicated process of measuring RF in circuit levels which I don't have the way to do accurately at the moment. As mentioned earlier the 100MHz oscillator driver has died so I have it set up on the bench injecting 100MHz into oscillator output (50ohm point) and 600MHz into the second converter.

?

I think my focus at the moment is to get the 100MHz back and then find out why the 600MHz after the trippler and doubler is low output so I can fault find the rest of the unit with out all this other gear hanging on it. Then see If I can borrow a decent active probe.

?

Dave

?

?

On 14/04/2019 2:04 am, Askild wrote:

Hi

Do you have access to a signal generator >3GHz?

It would help a lot, because that can help you to figure out where the problem is.

So if low band is low and high band is ok, the failure is most likely low band first mixer or second converter, or any signal/power feeding them.

If both low and high band is low, the you should check the IF path, by injecting a signal into the third mixer and checking what level you get on the display, compared to what it should be compared to the service manual.

?

You might of course have more than one failure...

?

I once fixed a 8563A that had low level on only the low band, problem was in the second converter, on the pcb.

When this converter was made, the one soldering the trough hole components cut the leads after soldering, and cutting down into the solder, over the years the stress on the solderings made them break.. Would think that HP would know better.. At least when I was trained for soldering certificate, I was told this was a big NO-NO. If you did do this, you should reflow.

?

Best of luck

Askild

?

On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 5:34 PM amirb <amir.borji@...> wrote:

oh, was it heating up? had you measured the bias voltage and DC current draw in that MMIC?
that usually (not always as I learned recently in repairing a R&S SME) gives you enough clue about the state the MMIC is in when you compare the values with datasheet


On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 11:02 AM, Dave Ireland wrote:

Amir

?

Haven't done much to day but I am starting to get obsessed again about the 100MHz level as when looking at the circuit third converter for the reason that might be 20dB down I realised that the local oscillator for the third converter is 300MHz derived just from the 100Mhz tripler.

?

I was just about to try injecting the 600Mhz from a sig gen and try selecting SIG ID which appears to switch in a 298MHz LO instead of the 300MHz to see if it makes up the 24dB but as fate would have it the MMIC in the 100Mhz oscillator has died and now the 300MHz has disappeared.

?

Off to order the MMIC.

?

Dave

?

?

?

On 13/04/2019 7:44 pm, amirb wrote:

When working on RF circuits only a proper RF active probe such as 85024A (ideal) or 1152A or 54701A or etc....will work
forget about passive probes unless accurate amplitude measurement is not your concern and you just want to see the signal
even for that purpose sometimes passive probes load your oscillator (depending on where you probe it) such that it stops oscillating!
The total system bandwidth (probe + scope or SA) is the key parameter.

Anyways, how do you measure the 600MHz? Do you have the proper connector (SMB or SMC i forgot) and do you measure it with 50 Ohm SA?

There are a couple of MMIC ampifiers in the final stages of the 600MHz REF, I would check them for DC bias voltage, DC current draw and? temperature to see if they are dead
of course with an active RF probe you could check their gain.

I would still focus on the mixers, for now you can just inject a 600MHz into the second converter
because if the low band mixer or the second converter is dead they are very expensive to repair or replace specially the second converter used to cost a fortune as I recall
and you might find it beyond economic repair. the 600MHz ref is easy to repair and its cheap. those MMICs can be found on ebay and they are cheap
or you might conclude that the 1st and 2nd mixers are fine and there is a problem in the IF and log amp, that is usually easy and not expensive to repair.



On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 08:11 PM, Dave Ireland wrote:

Amir

?

I think you are correct about the 100Mhz. I have become obsessed with the level without a proper method of measuring it. All the 300Mhz stuff following is working so can't be much wrong with it.

?

I am still however worried about the 600Mz level as this is being measured at the proper alignment point but another day dawns here in Australia and I have to leave it for a while.

?

Thanks for your help to date.

?

Dave

?

?

?

Sent from my Samsung GALAXY S5

-------- Original message --------
From: amirb <amir.borji@...>
Date: 13/04/2019 00:00 (GMT+08:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP8560E Low Level

I still doubt that there is anything wrong with the ref osc and 600MHz lo, really. it could be just a measurement trap.
how are you measuring those 9dBm and 17dBm in-circuit amplitudes? remember that only and only a proper RF active probe?
with careful grounding can give you the correct value. Any passive probe even the best 500MHz passive probe will give you totally out of whack values. I have been there...
even with an active probe (cap <1-2pF) still the precise point at which you measure it, is very critical. If the 100MHz is like 10dB low I am sure
you would be getting errors because the PFD will probably fail to work and the loop becomes unlocked.?

Moreover, as you explained, even when you inject 600MHz Lo from the outside your second IF is still 24dB low. That has nothing to do?
with the ref osc anymore.

another thing that puzzled me is that when you inject 310.7MHz to the third converter you get a trace at -32dBm? it should be much higher, close to -10dBm I think.
(adjust your atten to 10dB and ref level to 0dBm) How is the level of 300MHz third converter LO drive??

your 'default' noise floor is too low (it must be around -65 to -70dB as I recall from the units that I had in the past)
usually that means a mixer is not working but it can have other reasons further down the signal path

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?

Hi

Do you have access to a signal generator >3GHz?

It would help a lot, because that can help you to figure out where the problem is.

So if low band is low and high band is ok, the failure is most likely low band first mixer or second converter, or any signal/power feeding them.

If both low and high band is low, the you should check the IF path, by injecting a signal into the third mixer and checking what level you get on the display, compared to what it should be compared to the service manual.

You might of course have more than one failure...

I once fixed a 8563A that had low level on only the low band, problem was in the second converter, on the pcb.

When this converter was made, the one soldering the trough hole components cut the leads after soldering, and cutting down into the solder, over the years the stress on the solderings made them break.. Would think that HP would know better.. At least when I was trained for soldering certificate, I was told this was a big NO-NO. If you did do this, you should reflow.

Best of luck

Askild

On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 5:34 PM amirb <amir.borji@...> wrote:

oh, was it heating up? had you measured the bias voltage and DC current draw in that MMIC?
that usually (not always as I learned recently in repairing a R&S SME) gives you enough clue about the state the MMIC is in when you compare the values with datasheet


On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 11:02 AM, Dave Ireland wrote:

Amir

?

Haven't done much to day but I am starting to get obsessed again about the 100MHz level as when looking at the circuit third converter for the reason that might be 20dB down I realised that the local oscillator for the third converter is 300MHz derived just from the 100Mhz tripler.

?

I was just about to try injecting the 600Mhz from a sig gen and try selecting SIG ID which appears to switch in a 298MHz LO instead of the 300MHz to see if it makes up the 24dB but as fate would have it the MMIC in the 100Mhz oscillator has died and now the 300MHz has disappeared.

?

Off to order the MMIC.

?

Dave

?

?

?

On 13/04/2019 7:44 pm, amirb wrote:

When working on RF circuits only a proper RF active probe such as 85024A (ideal) or 1152A or 54701A or etc....will work
forget about passive probes unless accurate amplitude measurement is not your concern and you just want to see the signal
even for that purpose sometimes passive probes load your oscillator (depending on where you probe it) such that it stops oscillating!
The total system bandwidth (probe + scope or SA) is the key parameter.

Anyways, how do you measure the 600MHz? Do you have the proper connector (SMB or SMC i forgot) and do you measure it with 50 Ohm SA?

There are a couple of MMIC ampifiers in the final stages of the 600MHz REF, I would check them for DC bias voltage, DC current draw and? temperature to see if they are dead
of course with an active RF probe you could check their gain.

I would still focus on the mixers, for now you can just inject a 600MHz into the second converter
because if the low band mixer or the second converter is dead they are very expensive to repair or replace specially the second converter used to cost a fortune as I recall
and you might find it beyond economic repair. the 600MHz ref is easy to repair and its cheap. those MMICs can be found on ebay and they are cheap
or you might conclude that the 1st and 2nd mixers are fine and there is a problem in the IF and log amp, that is usually easy and not expensive to repair.



On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 08:11 PM, Dave Ireland wrote:

Amir

?

I think you are correct about the 100Mhz. I have become obsessed with the level without a proper method of measuring it. All the 300Mhz stuff following is working so can't be much wrong with it.

?

I am still however worried about the 600Mz level as this is being measured at the proper alignment point but another day dawns here in Australia and I have to leave it for a while.

?

Thanks for your help to date.

?

Dave

?

?

?

Sent from my Samsung GALAXY S5

-------- Original message --------
From: amirb <amir.borji@...>
Date: 13/04/2019 00:00 (GMT+08:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP8560E Low Level

I still doubt that there is anything wrong with the ref osc and 600MHz lo, really. it could be just a measurement trap.
how are you measuring those 9dBm and 17dBm in-circuit amplitudes? remember that only and only a proper RF active probe?
with careful grounding can give you the correct value. Any passive probe even the best 500MHz passive probe will give you totally out of whack values. I have been there...
even with an active probe (cap <1-2pF) still the precise point at which you measure it, is very critical. If the 100MHz is like 10dB low I am sure
you would be getting errors because the PFD will probably fail to work and the loop becomes unlocked.?

Moreover, as you explained, even when you inject 600MHz Lo from the outside your second IF is still 24dB low. That has nothing to do?
with the ref osc anymore.

another thing that puzzled me is that when you inject 310.7MHz to the third converter you get a trace at -32dBm? it should be much higher, close to -10dBm I think.
(adjust your atten to 10dB and ref level to 0dBm) How is the level of 300MHz third converter LO drive??

your 'default' noise floor is too low (it must be around -65 to -70dB as I recall from the units that I had in the past)
usually that means a mixer is not working but it can have other reasons further down the signal path

---

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_._,_._,_

I suggest a cold/cracked solder joint could be the issue - influenced by
flexing/shifting when heat builds up. If it "jumps around" between good
and bad, that might rule out a component that has drifted out of spec or
is temp-sensitive.? And if trace brightness is the only thing affected,
then there are only a very limited number of parts that are in the right
area. I doubt that the CRT or electrolytics are responsible for the
behavior you describe.

Pete

Hello,
just send what you need by registered mail to my office in Budapest.

But:
A) my oven can not handle large pieces
B) I am semi-retired. So things can take time, as I have so many jobs...

---

With best regards
Tam HANNA (emailing on a BlackBerry PRIV)

Enjoy electronics? Join 14k other followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at

Am 13. April 2019 23:22:10 MESZ schrieb Harvey White <madyn@...>:

On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 22:20:01 +0200, you wrote:

Harvey,

try to "temper" the PLA. Use a reflow oven.


I can try that.  Right now, I'm working on making a board positioner
for the binocular microscope that reads positions of parts from the
board file.

I don't have any cases that need work until I start to make cases for
stuff myself.

I have heard of smoothing the PLA by putting it in acetone vapors for
a bit.  That always sounded rather dangerous to me, and then again,
how long to leave it in is another matter.  Hmmm, acetone vapors in a
glass jar....

I may forego that experiment.  

I'll wait and see what I need, and thanks for the offer.

Harvey



If you want, you can send me some samples to HU and I will use my 
"Wassulmayer" oven.


- - - - -
With best regards
Tam HANNA

Enjoy electronics? Join 13500 followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at 

On 13.04.19 21:55, Harvey White wrote:
 On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 10:58:33 -0700, you wrote:

I don't know. I'm fairly sure the OEM part was plastic. The parts don't seem to be under much stress, and the stress is distributed along the length. I've never done 3D printing, but a few components I've encountered that are printed seem to be made of material that would be strong enough. There doesn't seem to be any other practical way to keep the cabinet halves together, so I'm pursuing duplication of the zippers. Any other idea would be appreciated!
 3D printer materials vary widely in strength.

 PLA is pretty generic, ABS is available, some other varieties are
 available as well as flexible filament.

 You'd need a heated bed printer for some of them, though.

 I'd be tempted to try a good ol' cheap print out of PLA to get the
 sizes right, then see how that works.

 Infill, wall size, and layer thickness also change strength of the
 part as well.

 PLA is cheap, but not very rugged, and definitely not as heat
 resistant as you'd like, perhaps.

 Harvey






 




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