¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

  1. HP-Agilent-Keysight-Equipment
  2. Messages
Expanded Topics Messages
Date
Re: E8357A upgrade questions

 

Caesar

Is there any SW you can recommend that will work on my machine? My very old copy of Acronis Enterprise?didn't seem to work. I have used this SW many times on XP without an issue but it was always PATA to PATA. My only option now is to use the USB-PATA adapter I have.
Re: E4401B No 50MHZ Cal signal

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Good job Mike! ?

Sent from my 20" Texas sized?
iPhone....


On Apr 2, 2019, at 7:40 AM, Mark Bielman <mbielman@...> wrote:

Excellent! Good work Michael.

Re: E4401B No 50MHZ Cal signal

 

Excellent! Good work Michael.
Re: E4401B No 50MHZ Cal signal

 

The number one tool of anyone fixing modern
electronics should be an ESR meter of the
Dick Smith variety.

Arguments about about ESR vs capacitive reactance
are numerous, but immaterial. When a capacitor
goes bad, its ESR will usually be 2 to 100 times
higher than normal.

Shorted capacitors will also be obvious, as the
ESR meter will show their ESR to be 1/4 (or less)
the normal value for a capacitor of that value.

Capacitors are the least reliable part made today.

Also, use your eyes, and scan the field. If almost
all of the capacitors used are, say, Nichicon, and
you find one or two that are YooSun, or Samson, or
Jokcon, or something else weird, it means the supply
line for Nichicons of that value was blocked up for
some reason, and purchasing bought what they could
find.

-Chuck Harris

Michael Williams wrote:

Found the problem!

C448 had failed short.

Many, many thanks to all the guys who contributed to this thread ¨C especially Mark and AmirB. You guys pulled my head out of the rabbit hole with that MUX nonsense. I¡¯m so glad it was something as simple and easy to fix as a bad cap. I had fears of bad ASICs, and other such unobtanium floating through my head.

If anyone is interested in my fault-finding approach this evening, read on. Otherwise, please accept my thanks ¨C this group has been very helpful to me.

My probing the other day had shown no signal at R525, and when I was unable to see anything resembling an 800MHz source signal (due to bad probing) I started checking every voltage I could find, which led me down the rabbit hole with 2ns_VCO_Vcc and the MUX nonsense.

After listening to Mark B and Amirb (and the many others who contributed to this thread) I had a more organized plan of attack for tonight. After double-checking the supply voltages, I started working from the other end of the 50MHz signal path (the 1/16 divider). I confirmed the presence of the 800 MHz 2nd VCO by making an ad-hoc RF probe with a loop of wire connected to my SDR Play, I then walked all the way through the 50Mhz path. After seeing signal on one side of R523, and no signal on the other side, I began to suspect C448. A quick power-down and check with a multimer confirmed my suspicion. I may not know one end of a MUX from another, but I do know that capacitors should not act like low-value resistors. I pulled the cap, and the analyzer started to behave itself. Little did I realize I was so close to the problem when I probed R525 the other day!

I have a replacement cap on order. I assume it¡¯s purpose is part of a filter along with L55 and R523 to clean up the 50MHz signal. The analyzer would probably function reasonably well without it, but I may as well replace it while I have the RF module open.

Cheers,

Mike Williams
AG5QX
Re: E4401B No 50MHZ Cal signal

 

fantastic!
Re: E4401B No 50MHZ Cal signal

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Found the problem!

?

C448 had failed short.

?

Many, many thanks to all the guys who contributed to this thread ¨C especially Mark and AmirB.? You guys pulled my head out of the rabbit hole with that MUX nonsense.? I¡¯m so glad it was something as simple and easy to fix as a bad cap.? I had fears of bad ASICs, and other such unobtanium floating through my head.

?

If anyone is interested in my fault-finding approach this evening, read on. ?Otherwise, please accept my thanks ¨C this group has been very helpful to me.

?

My probing the other day had shown no signal at R525, and when I was unable to see anything resembling an 800MHz source signal (due to bad probing) I started checking every voltage I could find, which led me down the rabbit hole with 2ns_VCO_Vcc and the MUX nonsense.

?

After listening to Mark B and Amirb (and the many others who contributed to this thread) I had a more organized plan of attack for tonight.? After double-checking the supply voltages, I started working from the other end of the 50MHz signal path (the 1/16 divider).? I confirmed the presence of the 800 MHz 2nd VCO by making an ad-hoc RF probe with a loop of wire connected to my SDR Play, I then walked all the way through the 50Mhz path.? After seeing signal on one side of R523, and no signal on the other side, I began to suspect C448.? A quick power-down and check with a multimer confirmed my suspicion.? I may not know one end of a MUX from another, but I do know that capacitors should not act like low-value resistors.? I pulled the cap, and the analyzer started to behave itself.? Little did I realize I was so close to the problem when I probed R525 the other day!?

?

I have a replacement cap on order.? I assume it¡¯s purpose is part of a filter along with L55 and R523 to clean up the 50MHz signal.? The analyzer would probably function reasonably well without it, but I may as well replace it while I have the RF module open.

?

Cheers,

?

Mike Williams

AG5QX

?

?

From: <[email protected]> on behalf of "Mark Bielman via Groups.Io" <mbielman@...>
Reply-To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, April 1, 2019 at 6:10 PM
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] E4401B No 50MHZ Cal signal

?

Yes, those are the ones I am using as well. My CLIP is quite hard to read. (poor scans) and my PDF reader cannot search for text. (graphics files I guess)
I have simply ignored the test points on the schematic! On the PCB I see things like "1st LO Ref" and such. But I agree that the CLIP is not great but we'd be lost w/o it!

Don't give up.

Mark

Re: HP and Tek CRTs at Stuff Day, April 13th

 

On Sat, Mar 30, 2019 at 10:25 AM, walter shawlee wrote:
HP CRTs:
5083-0952, 5083-2570, 5083-1622, 5083-3853, 5083-4052, 5083-2322 plus a 1740A CRT and several complete (new) magnetic CRT assemblies both mono and color.
There's no way I can make it up there myself, but I do have a couple of 85662A IF/display sections that probably will need the CRTs replaced in the next year or two. I don't have the part numbers handy and I can't seem to find the CRT in the parts listing in the service manual either. I know there were two different CRTs used, along with a change in the amplifiers. Can anyone confirm the part numbers?

Sean
Re: Are the 5300A and 5300B display sections interchangeability

 


ervice.pdf

Hi Dave, according to Op & Service Manual for 5308A. Specifications "NOTE:
Hp5308A is compatable with 5300B Mainframe Only."

Rgds Bill lauchlan

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of ArtekManuals
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2019 11:35 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Are the 5300A and 5300B display
sections interchangeability

Bill

I had that but that only answers half the question . The 5308A is NOT
listed in the 5300A manual but that may only mean that the 5308A came
out AFTGER the the publishing of my 5300A manual as an example.

The other half of the question is will the 5308A work with the 5300A
Display or not? All the pictures in my 5308A manual show it with the
5300B display , but? that is not definitive , and the manual is other
wise moot on the point, may only be a announcement timing thing???


Dave
manuals@...

On 4/1/2019 9:11 AM, bill.lauchlan171@... wrote:

rating%20%26%20Service.pdf


Please see list of compatable products in Manual at above URL

Bill Lauchlan
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of ArtekManuals
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2019 4:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Are the 5300A and 5300B display
sections interchangeability

Can the 5300A and 5300B display units be used interchangeably with all
the 53xxA and 53xxB counters and DMM's?
(i.e say a 5308A counter and a 5300B display as an example or vice versa
Dave
manuals@...
--
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com
Re: E4401B No 50MHZ Cal signal

 

Yes, those are the ones I am using as well. My CLIP is quite hard to read. (poor scans) and my PDF reader cannot search for text. (graphics files I guess)
I have simply ignored the test points on the schematic! On the PCB I see things like "1st LO Ref" and such. But I agree that the CLIP is not great but we'd be lost w/o it!

Don't give up.

Mark
Re: Adding options to 8753ES

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Useful info there! ?I¡¯ll look at in more info when I get home tonight.?


Peter

On Apr 1, 2019, at 4:53 PM, Caesar Valenti <caesarv@...> wrote:

You obviously have not seen this page:?

Re: Adding options to 8753ES

 

You obviously have not seen this page:?

Re: E4401B No 50MHZ Cal signal

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Mark,

?

The documents I am using are E4401-90474 ¡°Service Guide, ESA Spectrum Analyzers¡± and the CLIP for ¡°1.5 GHz RF (75 Ohm) E4401-60100.

?

-- Mike

?

?

From: <[email protected]> on behalf of "Mark Bielman via Groups.Io" <mbielman@...>
Reply-To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, April 1, 2019 at 2:59 PM
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] E4401B No 50MHZ Cal signal

?

Michael,

I see what you are talking about but you are misunderstanding the purpose of that (analog) MUX. It is selecting various analog signals (Vcc, temp, etc) and checking their levels, most likely with a DAC.
(not sure where ANA_TEST goes) So it is not supplying power to anything... it is reading it. Most likely during a self test. (maybe this gets enabled during the power-on sequence?)

You might also try the SERVICE MENU (password is "-2010") but I have not really used it before so be cautious!

Do you have the service manual? (E4401-90474)

Re: E4401B No 50MHZ Cal signal

 

I dont have the service manual or CLIP for E4401B but I was scratching my head since Mike said the VCC for VCO
comes from a MUX. I am sure I have never seen such a thing and it would be a bad practice to turn on/off the? VCC of a? chip
by a MUX. Sampling it for ADC and self test makes a lot more sense.

Still I suspect if that second LO was dead or unlocked, the instrument would have generated an error message of some sort


On Mon, Apr 1, 2019 at 03:58 PM, Mark Bielman wrote:
Michael,

I see what you are talking about but you are misunderstanding the purpose of that (analog) MUX. It is selecting various analog signals (Vcc, temp, etc) and checking their levels, most likely with a DAC.
(not sure where ANA_TEST goes) So it is not supplying power to anything... it is reading it. Most likely during a self test. (maybe this gets enabled during the power-on sequence?)

You might also try the SERVICE MENU (password is "-2010") but I have not really used it before so be cautious!

Do you have the service manual? (E4401-90474)
Re: E4401B No 50MHZ Cal signal

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Ah,

?

Thanks Mark ¨C that makes more sense.? Now, I just have to figure out why 2nd_VCO_Vcc is showing as 0 volts.? Sounds like something in the local power supply for the 2nd VCO.? I¡¯ll do some more probing in that area tonight.

?

One thing that has made this more difficult for me is that there is a discrepancy in the labeling of the test points between the schematics in the CLIP and the silkscreen on the RF module PCB.? The schematic will reference a test point of ¡°TN215¡± for example, but the PCB will have a label of ¡°TNQA3¡± (these are two randomly picked test points ¨C unlikely that they are the same one).? Is there a way to correlate the two?? Is it something as simple as the PCB silkscreen being a hexadecimal version of the TN in the schematic?? Until I figure out the naming system, I have to find the nearest component to the test point, find it on the pcb using the component map, and then find that on the pcb itself ¨C very time consuming.

?

I have the service manual, and the CLIP for this device.? While the CLIP is invaluable, it is a bit frustrating at times ¨C schematics that are not clearly labeled, component placement diagrams without an index, etc.? I guess I¡¯ve been spoiled by the old-school Tektronix service manuals that had all the indexes, and a theory of operation as well.

?

Thanks again for your help, I should have more info after tonight.

?

-- Mike

?

?

From: <[email protected]> on behalf of "Mark Bielman via Groups.Io" <mbielman@...>
Reply-To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, April 1, 2019 at 2:59 PM
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] E4401B No 50MHZ Cal signal

?

Michael,

I see what you are talking about but you are misunderstanding the purpose of that (analog) MUX. It is selecting various analog signals (Vcc, temp, etc) and checking their levels, most likely with a DAC.
(not sure where ANA_TEST goes) So it is not supplying power to anything... it is reading it. Most likely during a self test. (maybe this gets enabled during the power-on sequence?)

You might also try the SERVICE MENU (password is "-2010") but I have not really used it before so be cautious!

Do you have the service manual? (E4401-90474)

Re: E4401B No 50MHZ Cal signal

 

Michael,

I see what you are talking about but you are misunderstanding the purpose of that (analog) MUX. It is selecting various analog signals (Vcc, temp, etc) and checking their levels, most likely with a DAC.
(not sure where ANA_TEST goes) So it is not supplying power to anything... it is reading it. Most likely during a self test. (maybe this gets enabled during the power-on sequence?)

You might also try the SERVICE MENU (password is "-2010") but I have not really used it before so be cautious!

Do you have the service manual? (E4401-90474)
Re: HP 70590A Information wanted part of HP 70000 / MMS

 

Hi
I totally agree with you value is in
The rear connector and any relay it might have ?20 max

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of jfphp via
Groups.Io
Sent: 01 April 2019 11:37
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 70590A Information wanted
part of HP 70000 / MMS

The 70590A is useless, except you have the military softwares from Air Force
or Navy dedicated to some gear (F18...) but they need a lot of non HP plug
ins (Comstron, Tern Technology...) under ITAR regulations. It is not used by
the various MMS cal and repair softwares. It is 1? worth. You can only
dismantle it and get the rear connector as te first step to build an
extender (not easy !)..
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 4/1/19, Paul Bicknell <paul@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 70590A Information wanted
part of HP 70000 / MMS
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, April 1, 2019, 12:35 AM

Hi I have spoken to the UK
supplier I am due to visit him this week but

I don¡¯t think he believed me
when I told him I had only found 7 independent
users of? HP 70000 equipment in the UK and
that a lot? of people stay away
from it as
they do not understand how it all slots together

The problem is a lot look at
the equipment rate book and assume that is the
price

Still
looking for? Receiver personality software


-----Original
Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Harvey White
Sent: 31 March
2019 22:59
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP
70590A Information wanted
part of HP 70000 /
MMS

On Sun, 31 Mar 2019
00:31:55 -0700, you wrote:

>Hi Paul,
>
>"The HP 70590A Options H69 and H72
TMAs (Test Module Adapters) are MATE
modules
for HP 70000 Series spectrum analyzers. The modules
translate CIIL
(control intermediate
interface language) into the HP 70000 Series native
code. Option H69 modules provide a calibration
switch signal at the rear
panel. Option H72
modules switch the RF and Calibrator signals to the
analyzer's RF input."
>
>See
>
>I'm guessing you
are wondering why a UK eBay seller thinks he might get up
to ?1000 for one!

Does anyone still use MATE?? I worked on a
runner up to that program a
long while
ago... ("our" proposal wasn't accepted)....

Did some 488 bus programming
using a TMS9914 controller run by an
8088.

Programmed in PLM-86.

Don't really know where it went, may have
been a wildly popular
standard at the
time.

Historical note:

The US DOD was getting tired
of all the different instruments used in
depot level (not flightline, since most of that
was very custom...)
speaking a different
language, per the manufacturer....

So they had a competition to see who could come
up with a decent
language (and it had a
whole lot of "human factors" concepts thrown
in, since it was somehow supposed to interface
to something portable,
or at least,
that's what I remember...

The company I worked for at the time lost.?
Never quite sure why,
didn't really
understand some of the "they expect us to do it this
way
so we will.... thinking"

but the concept of CIIL was to
be that all the instruments were to
speak a
common language, and that language was to be a replacement
for
the existing instrument languages.

Lots of money was dumped into
the concept.

Harvey


>
>Regards,
>Steve
>
>







-----
No virus found in this
message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database:
4793/15884 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal
Virus Database is out of date.










-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15884 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Adding options to 8753ES

 

Is it still possible to add options 2 and 10 to a 8753ES? These are harmonic analysis and time domain, both software options.

I have 8753ES serial US39175124 opt 11 with the last published firmware revision.


Peter
Re: E8357A upgrade questions

 

The 1100MHz CPU has USB 2.0, but not the 500MHz.? The 1100 was the next generation of CPUs and was much more modern in that it had 4 USB ports and could boot from USB.
I do not know of any easy method of adding USB 2.0...although I suppose something could be done using the spare PCI slot.

As long as I am working, spare hard drives will be available.? Once I retire however (I am over retirement age and have been here 44 years), any requests for obsolete parts will probably be met with "Sorry, that part/model is out of support life."? That is just the way it is with large companies.? If upper management knew that I was supporting these old products, I would probably be reprimanded.? From their point of view, any existing customer should upgrade to a new instrument; after all, it only costs $75k. Personally, I see value in supporting hobbyists for a number of various reasons.?
Re: E4401B No 50MHZ Cal signal

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Mark,

?

Here¡¯s what I¡¯ve done so far.? The following is from my initial post ¨C reposting here as a refresher since there has been a lot of traffic on this thread (which I am grateful for!).

?

?

I have confirmed that on the RF assembly, the 2nd?VCO is not receiving power because the ¡°TEST MUX¡± ¨C U56 is not getting enabled ¨C All of the MUX lines (MUX_EN, MUX_0-MUX_2) are all at 0 v.??

?

This is where I¡¯m stuck ¨C I see that U55 (Fractional Divider) has connections the MUX pins but have no idea what tells it to place the MUX into a given state.? I can¡¯t tell if this is a logic/software issue, cabling, or a bad U55.

?

From what I can see in the CLIP, the 2nd_VCO_Vcc signal is coming from that MUX.? One of my tests for this evening is to apply the appropriate voltage to 2nd_VCO_Vcc and see what happens ¨C this should confirm or deny my current theory.

?

-- Mike

?

?

?

From: <[email protected]> on behalf of "Mark Bielman via Groups.Io" <mbielman@...>
Reply-To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, April 1, 2019 at 11:34 AM
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] E4401B No 50MHZ Cal signal

?

OH! That's a different story then. Do you have the 800 MHz at the input? (U74 pin 1) Looks like 50 MHz at the output of U74 pin 4 should always be there.
If you have 800 MHz in and nothing out, U74 is bad. ()

Re: E8357A upgrade questions

 

Ahh OK, my bad. Pretty sure I did it on 1.1GHz CPU models (with the 4 USBs on the rear) - no idea about the 500MHz CPU model.

The linux distro was a really lightweight one - was crunchbang (!#) which is is now? ?

R.
55701 - 55720 of 151317