Re: Replacement battery for 8566A
The best solution is to go with nicads as originally designed.?
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On Mar 29, 2019, at 12:42 PM, Dave Wise < david_wise@...> wrote:
?You can make a great?low-leakage diode from?the collector junction of virtually any modern small-signal?transistor.
Dave Wise
I'd recommend against using Schottky diodes for isolation of a lithium primary cell. It's important to minimize reverse leakage current, which tends to "charge" the cell, which is a no-no. Usually a small-signal silicon diode is used, and sometimes a special
low-leakage one. It depends on the particular cell type and size. There may be specifications on primary Li cells regarding how much reverse current they can safely absorb, but it's best to make it as tiny as possible.
Ed
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Re: Replacement battery for 8566A
?You can make a great?low-leakage diode from?the collector junction of virtually any modern small-signal?transistor.
Dave Wise
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I'd recommend against using Schottky diodes for isolation of a lithium primary cell. It's important to minimize reverse leakage current, which tends to "charge" the cell, which is a no-no. Usually a small-signal silicon diode is used, and sometimes a special
low-leakage one. It depends on the particular cell type and size. There may be specifications on primary Li cells regarding how much reverse current they can safely absorb, but it's best to make it as tiny as possible.
Ed
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Re: 5065A rubidium standard parts
Hi,
Any chance you still have the Rb lamps available?
Cheers,
Corby Dawson
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Re: Replacement battery for 8566A
I was thinking of checking the ko4bb site to see if it¡¯s already there but his site has been down today.
Peter
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On Mar 29, 2019, at 2:37 AM, Dave McGuire <mcguire@...> wrote:
Um, wow...Peter, please archive that firmware!
-Dave
On March 28, 2019 11:08:21 PM "Daun Yeagley" <daun@...> wrote:
Hi Peter
This is digging *way* back in the cobwebs of my mind... CIIL stands
for "Control Intermediate Interface Language", which was part of "MATE",
which was a DoD (Department of Defense) initiative for automated test
back in the '80's meant to standardize programming of instruments.
There was special firmware developed as an option for this in some of
the HP instruments of the time. I never got very involved with it
because at the time I didn't have any DoD customers. It was never very
popular, and shortly died out. (this was also around the time that IEEE
488.2 was introduced and pretty much did what DoD was trying to do with
MATE/CIIL.
Maybe some others here may have a better recollection.
Daun
Daun E. Yeagley II, N8ASB
On 3/28/2019 10:44 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:
So it turns out I was thinking of another analyzer, perhaps one I
fixed for a friend. My unit started out as a B, the screen says on
startup:
HP-IB ADRS: 18
8566B-E69 <CIIL> (C) 14.6.85
I'm not sure what the E69 or <CIIL> mean or if I have the most up to
date firmware but the analyzer works just fine so far as I can tell.
Peter
On 3/28/2019 3:50 PM, [email protected] wrote:
On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 12:35 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:
I have the B which was apparently an A upgrade and can open it up
and look
at anything if that is helpful.
Peter
Peter,
If you could look under the front panel and take a photo of the same
area that would be fantastic. I believe the B upgrade kit was
supposed to delete that because the battery type changed and was
moved to one of the new digital logic boards that was part of the
A->B upgrade.
Sean
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: HP 53310A POST errors
That "Artek"!
I have bought couple manuals from Dave in past couple years.
placed order today and downloaded the CLIP.
I will study the SM and schematics later.
Jack
|
Service notes library on microfiche (5951-6511)
I have seen a service notes library referenced in many?of the older "Bench Briefs". Part number was 5951-6511 or H5320A.?
There was also a subscription service that could be ordered under part number 5951-6517 or H5299A.
Has anyone ever seen one of these microfiche packages? I keep looking on eBay but no success so far.
Thank you,
Wolfgang, KI7PFX
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Re: Replacement battery for 8566A
Um, wow...Peter, please archive that firmware! -Dave On March 28, 2019 11:08:21 PM "Daun Yeagley" <daun@...> wrote: Hi Peter
This is digging *way* back in the cobwebs of my mind... CIIL stands
for "Control Intermediate Interface Language", which was part of "MATE",
which was a DoD (Department of Defense) initiative for automated test
back in the '80's meant to standardize programming of instruments.
There was special firmware developed as an option for this in some of
the HP instruments of the time. I never got very involved with it
because at the time I didn't have any DoD customers. It was never very
popular, and shortly died out. (this was also around the time that IEEE
488.2 was introduced and pretty much did what DoD was trying to do with
MATE/CIIL.
Maybe some others here may have a better recollection.
Daun
Daun E. Yeagley II, N8ASB
On 3/28/2019 10:44 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:
So it turns out I was thinking of another analyzer, perhaps one I
fixed for a friend. My unit started out as a B, the screen says on
startup:
HP-IB ADRS: 18
8566B-E69 <CIIL> (C) 14.6.85
I'm not sure what the E69 or <CIIL> mean or if I have the most up to
date firmware but the analyzer works just fine so far as I can tell.
Peter
On 3/28/2019 3:50 PM, [email protected] wrote:
On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 12:35 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:
I have the B which was apparently an A upgrade and can open it up
and look
at anything if that is helpful.
Peter
Peter,
If you could look under the front panel and take a photo of the same
area that would be fantastic. I believe the B upgrade kit was
supposed to delete that because the battery type changed and was
moved to one of the new digital logic boards that was part of the
A->B upgrade.
Sean
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Re: HP5335A rough calibration
Thanks to everyone who commented on this topic. There is a lot of very useful information contained in your messages.
I thought I would document what I did and what happened. I connected my GPSDO to channel 1 of my scope and a MV89A to the second channel. I Tee'd the input to the second channel and routed the MV89A output to input A of the HP5335A. After the GPSDO locked, I adjusted the MV89A frequency adjust voltage so the two signals were almost stationary and then adjusted the HP10811 frequency control so the HP5335A read 10,000,000.02. The .02 Hz offset occurred because I couldn't get the reading any closer to 10MHz exactly.?
For the first several hours, the two signals would drift with respect to each other. I would periodically change the voltage to the adjust pin of the MV89A to make the two signals stationary with one another. Eventually (after about 3-4 hours) the drifting stopped. The configuration has been running for about 10 hours now and looking in periodically confirms the signals are no longer drifting with respect to one another. The HP5335A display now reads 10,000,000.01 and has stayed constant for the last several hours.
Since the two signals are stationary with respect to each other, I think this confirms that aligning the frequency display using just the GPSDO would have worked just fine. However, it is interesting to verify that the MV89As are pretty stable after warmup (not necessarily for long-term time keeping, but for the short- and medium-term). I will keep the configuration running overnight and see if there are any changes in the morning.
I won't be running the "calibration" for more than 24 hours, as I do not intend to use the HP5335A for long-term experiments.
Dan
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The HP5315A/B is a very interesting counter to work with. I¡¯m not sure of the cause of your humming, but when plugged in, there is power to the PCB always. That keeps the oscillator stable.
This counter and the HP5316 are well documented in manuals and HP journals. Everything is controlled by 3 chips. A custom counter chip, a Mostek MK3870 clone Microcontroller and an Intersil ICM7218 display controller. There are several generations of PCBs over the +15 years of production. The simplest mod is to replace the XO or TXO with an OCXO (oven controlled) daughter board. Google for this mod.
The HP5315A/B was a low cost design, so there was no HPIB interface. The HP5316 was essentially the identical design but included an HPIB interface. It is 2 times the depth of the HP5315A and much heavier.
I am in the process of developing a USB interface to the HP5315 to log the display to a PC. I¡¯ll provide more info as the project proceeds. Basically, what ever mode is selected on the front panel will be interpreted into 8-9 digit mantissa, 1 digit exponent, units and associated flags. Logging will be selectable from 1-600 seconds.
The design is based on a daughter board which uses the MK3870 and a Microchip USB Microcontroller. The daughter board plugs back into the MK3870 socket.
Keep tuned.
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Re: Replacement battery for 8566A
On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 19:55:42 -0700, you wrote: On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 07:44 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:
So it turns out I was thinking of another analyzer, perhaps one I fixed
for a friend.? My unit started out as a B, the screen says on startup:
HP-IB ADRS:?? 18
8566B-E69 <CIIL> (C) 14.6.85
CIIL *MAY* be short for "COMMON INSTRUMENT INTERFACE LANGUAGE" which was an attempt to standardize command languages for military instrumentation. If so, it should be well documented but completely non-standard (in terms of commercial stuff). the 1985 might be about right. Harvey
I'm not sure what the E69 or <CIIL> mean or if I have the most up to date
firmware but the analyzer works just fine so far as I can tell.
Peter,
Thanks for checking. I don't know what E69 means either. My 68B just says "8568B x.x.x" where the x's are the date of the firmware revision. HP-IB address 18 is the default, but I believe it is stored in RAM and since mine doesn't have a battery at all right now it is just losing it's mind in between power ons, since standby is obviously not powering RAM.
Sean
|
Re: Replacement battery for 8566A
Hi Peter
This is digging *way* back in the cobwebs of my mind...??? CIIL stands for "Control Intermediate Interface Language", which was part of "MATE", which was a DoD (Department of Defense) initiative for automated test back in the '80's meant to standardize programming of instruments.?? There was special firmware developed as an option for this in some of the HP instruments of the time.? I never got very involved with it because at the time I didn't have any DoD customers.? It was never very popular, and shortly died out.? (this was also around the time that IEEE 488.2 was introduced and pretty much did what DoD was trying to do with MATE/CIIL.
Maybe some others here may have a better recollection.
Daun
Daun E. Yeagley II, N8ASB
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On 3/28/2019 10:44 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: So it turns out I was thinking of another analyzer, perhaps one I fixed for a friend.? My unit started out as a B, the screen says on startup:
HP-IB ADRS:?? 18
8566B-E69 <CIIL> (C) 14.6.85
I'm not sure what the E69 or <CIIL> mean or if I have the most up to date firmware but the analyzer works just fine so far as I can tell.
Peter
On 3/28/2019 3:50 PM, [email protected] wrote:
On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 12:35 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:
??? I have the B which was apparently an A upgrade and can open it up and look
??? at anything if that is helpful.
??? Peter
Peter,
If you could look under the front panel and take a photo of the same area that would be fantastic. I believe the B upgrade kit was supposed to delete that because the battery type changed and was moved to one of the new digital logic boards that was part of the A->B upgrade.
Sean
|
Re: Replacement battery for 8566A
On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 07:44 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:
So it turns out I was thinking of another analyzer, perhaps one I fixed for a friend.? My unit started out as a B, the screen says on startup:
HP-IB ADRS:?? 18
8566B-E69 <CIIL> (C) 14.6.85
I'm not sure what the E69 or <CIIL> mean or if I have the most up to date firmware but the analyzer works just fine so far as I can tell.
Peter, Thanks for checking. I don't know what E69 means either. My 68B just says "8568B x.x.x" where the x's are the date of the firmware revision. HP-IB address 18 is the default, but I believe it is stored in RAM and since mine doesn't have a battery at all right now it is just losing it's mind in between power ons, since standby is obviously not powering RAM. Sean
|
Re: Replacement battery for 8566A
So it turns out I was thinking of another analyzer, perhaps one I fixed for a friend.? My unit started out as a B, the screen says on startup:
HP-IB ADRS:?? 18
8566B-E69 <CIIL> (C) 14.6.85
I'm not sure what the E69 or <CIIL> mean or if I have the most up to date firmware but the analyzer works just fine so far as I can tell.
Peter
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Show quoted text
On 3/28/2019 3:50 PM, [email protected] wrote: On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 12:35 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:
I have the B which was apparently an A upgrade and can open it up and look
at anything if that is helpful.
Peter
Peter,
If you could look under the front panel and take a photo of the same area that would be fantastic. I believe the B upgrade kit was supposed to delete that because the battery type changed and was moved to one of the new digital logic boards that was part of the A->B upgrade.
Sean
|
Re: Replacement battery for 8566A
On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 04:46 PM, Ed Breya wrote:
I'd recommend against using Schottky diodes for isolation of a lithium primary cell. It's important to minimize reverse leakage current, which tends to "charge" the cell, which is a no-no. Usually a small-signal silicon diode is used, and sometimes a special low-leakage one. It depends on the particular cell type and size. There may be specifications on primary Li cells regarding how much reverse current they can safely absorb, but it's best to make it as tiny as possible.
Ed
Since I already have the Nicad pack, I'm just going to use it. I don't want to deal with changing to lithium. And eventually, I'll probably get a 66B and it will be a moot point. :) Sean
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Re: Replacement battery for 8566A
On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 04:34 PM, pianovt wrote:
OK, from the picture I can tell it's an "A". I can't recall seeing those characters before the HPIB address before.
The terminals for the wires are on the motherboard, below the intended battery position. I would attach the new NiCd packto the casting with some Velcro and solder in the wires from the pack to the motherboard. Unless you know a lot about NiMH battry chargers, I would not swap from NiCd.
I can think of a couple of reasons why your battery holder is missing. It may have already corroded when the original batteries died. If the contacts were damaged beyond repair, I would have removed it too, so someone doesn't "wing it" and put new batteries in. It may even have been too contaminated with the crudd to make it worth cleaning.
The other possibility is that your analyzer started life in some military facility and they didn't want any data retention in the instrument. For example, a dangerous spy could have walked up to the analyzer in the dark of the night, turned it on and done a "Recall 7". With that information on hand, the whole country could have fallen victim to a Soviet invasion. Rremember, this thing was made during the cold wa years.
Vladan.
Good call on the velcro. I think my game plan will be to locate the motherboard connections, solder leads to the battery, possibly heat shrink said leads just to make them nice, then velcro the battery pack to the chassis behind the rear panel, about where it would have been anyway. If this system was used in classified research that it would have been destroyed rather than sold most likely. Honestly I think the most likely explanation is either unrecoverable battery carnage or the battery stuff was stolen to repair another unit with battery carnage. Thanks everyone!
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Re: Replacement battery for 8566A
I'd recommend against using Schottky diodes for isolation of a lithium primary cell. It's important to minimize reverse leakage current, which tends to "charge" the cell, which is a no-no. Usually a small-signal silicon diode is used, and sometimes a special low-leakage one. It depends on the particular cell type and size. There may be specifications on primary Li cells regarding how much reverse current they can safely absorb, but it's best to make it as tiny as possible.
Ed
|
Re: hp8640B strange output
Hello Armin,
?
Try Dads Desk [hglent@...].
?
73 de Brian, VK2GCE
|
Re: Replacement battery for 8566A
OK, from the picture I can tell it's an "A". I can't recall seeing those characters before the HPIB address before.
The terminals for the wires are on the motherboard, below the intended battery position. I would attach the new NiCd packto the casting with some Velcro and solder in the wires from the pack to the motherboard. Unless you know a lot about NiMH battry chargers, I would not swap from NiCd.
I can think of a couple of reasons why your battery holder is missing. It may have already corroded when the original batteries died. If the contacts were damaged beyond repair, I would have removed it too, so someone doesn't "wing it" and put new batteries in. It may even have been too contaminated with the crudd to make it worth cleaning.
The other possibility is that your analyzer started life in some military facility and they didn't want any data retention in the instrument. For example, a dangerous spy could have walked up to the analyzer in the dark of the night, turned it on and done a "Recall 7". With that information on hand, the whole country could have fallen victim to a Soviet invasion. Rremember, this thing was made during the cold wa years.
Vladan.
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Re: Replacement battery for 8566A
I use a Schottky but any will really do, like a 1N4148.?
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On Mar 28, 2019, at 6:23 PM, [email protected] wrote: On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 03:16 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:
Never use alkalines. 1.5 volt lithium AA cells are a decent choice, very long shelf life, no leakage.?
Someone above said don't use lithium, though. Would lithium AA 1.5 V cells be ok with a diode in series? What diode should I choose? I have a lot of glass package diodes available. Sean
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Re: Replacement battery for 8566A
One more thing - if you change the battery to a primary type, with the charging deleted, it may not last long. The old memory parts may take a lot more standby current than the more "modern" ones like used in the "B" processor with its lithium cell. The original NiCd battery probably would not have been expected to keep the data for more than maybe one to a few months without line power applied. But, at least it was replenished when powered back up. If you use a primary type, it's a one-way trip to deadness if the instrument sits un-powered for extended periods. It all depends on the actual standby current needed versus the battery A-hr capacity - maybe OK, maybe not. I'd recommend just sticking with the original type, with no modifications, except for how it's attached.
Ed
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Dave McGuire
Brian