The EMI filters are just a reason to want 30 KHz rather than 300 KHz. I've been doing a lot of probing with the SA function of the Instek MDO-2000E line. My 8560A just isn't sensitive enough below about 300 KHz which is where the majority of the noise is. Sadly I discovered that GW botched the calculation of the modulus so the series resonant notch of a crystal shows up as a peak.
So how would you evaluate the performance of an EMI filter? It surely looks like a transmission/reflection problem to me. I'm a retired reflection seismologist, so I'm very used to the time domain and impulse responses and to a large degree can look at either a time or a frequency domain plot and cartoon the other domain (thanks to Ronald Bracewell).
For that matter, how would you evaluate a crossover network? That's not 50 ohms. I would expect one would need a balun at each end, but I can't see why it matters that it's not an RF line. The conversion between balanced and unbalanced and the impedance matched would be required and the latter probably gets "interesting" if it's a 4 ohm speaker.
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This may come in handy for others, I had an 8753A I got off ebay fo rmy RF bench.? It worked for one day, then went into random display and status mode, totally unusable. Most times, I got no display, but sometimes random lines and random LEDs on, no key press response. Rats...
All the power supplies looked good, no visible heat or corrosion damage, and re-seating the cards did nothing.? I got a new set of 6 eproms from Bruce Lane at Blue Feather Technology, and ta-da, the unit came back to life perfectly.? The old parts had all the labels missing, but were original, and had the 1986 code copyright. The age of those parts (checked against other part date codes) is approximately 30+ years, right on track for code failure based on the part datasheets. the threshold seems to be around 25 years for UV eproms to experience code rot.
Many older HP units have deteriorating eprom code from this same era, so it's worth exploring this as a fix, and many on-line code repositories are now up to support this. If you see completely un-explainable random operation, this is a good place to look.
all the best,
walter (walter2 -at- sphere.bc.ca)
sphere research corp.
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On 02/10/2019 07:58 PM, Dr. David
Kirkby from Kirkby Microwave Ltd wrote:
However,
if you would like to have a VNA I recommend one that has
integrated test set like 8753D (it also comes without test
set) It also has a 6GHz option?
which would be fantastic.
The external test set does offer some
advantages, which is why I bought an 8753ES option 011
(external test test). Testing high power amplifiers is one
obvious one. Almost all current high end VNAs have an
extra-cost option of a configurable test set.?
Dave.?
_._,_._,_
I haven't been following this thread, so I may be off topic, but I
wonder if you have read about a couple of VNA "modules" that run off
of a USB port on a computer? I don't know what frequency range
you need, but I think some of the modules are working up into the
low GHz region. They are far cheaper than a full-blown VNA from,
say, HP. You should, however, look for a unit that does 4-port
measurements: S11, S21, S12, S22, if available, or you'll have to
turn the UUT around to get the answers.
--doug, WA2SAY, retired RF engineer
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Re: Hp 8903b display issue u
I just opened my 8903B. A9 is the Remote Interface (HPIB) board. The CPU for the 8903B is on A8.? I also pulled up my 8903B service manual PDF downloaded from the Agilent web site several years ago. Serial prefix 2948A and above have the MC68B09P CPU; earlier models had the F8.?
The HPIB board used with the 6809 processor is fairly simple; it¡¯s just a 6821 VIA and some supporting circuitry. The board part number is 08903-60297. (Look at the bottom of the board, between the card edge connectors.?
The older board used with the F8 CPU is 08903-60118. It used the Fairchild 3861 PIO chip.?
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On Feb 10, 2019, at 18:19, Glen Hoag < hoag@...> wrote: Regarding ¡°8650¡±, are you sure you aren¡¯t looking at the date code on the chip?
I have an 8903B and an 8903E, which is the version without the signal generator. I don¡¯t remember which processors they have; I¡¯ll have to have a look inside.?
What is the part number on your A9 board? On Feb 10, 2019, at 17:31, oliver johnson via Groups.Io < nojjamaica@...> wrote: I agree with what you are saying , i see a few of th chips , but without the original programming i am stuck , thats why i wanted to know if anyone has a way to get original information so it can be put on new chips, that or i will need a doner A9 board that works this way eliminate need for chips and the need for programming,? if anyone has a spare A9 card for 8903b or have a way to program new chips with original information,? let me know. On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 4:52 PM, paul swedberg Oliver if it is a prom it may not really matter if you can get the part as it won't have the code. Thats the key. If you have the code you can almost always hack in a more modern device to replace it. No code = big trouble. Good luck Paul WB8TSL
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Dr. David Kirkby from Kirkby Microwave Ltd
However, if you would like to have a VNA I recommend one that has integrated test set like 8753D (it also comes without test set) It also has a 6GHz option?
which would be fantastic.
The external test set does offer some advantages, which is why I bought an 8753ES option 011 (external test test). Testing high power amplifiers is one obvious one. Almost all current high end VNAs have an extra-cost option of a configurable test set.?
Dave.?
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Re: Hp 8903b display issue update
On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 17:43:36 +0000 (UTC), you wrote: I just looked at my 8903b and the chip is an 8650 , not the 3850 or 6809 . Being that this is the only 40 pin chip on the card by default it has to be it , i did remove chip to see if it was the issue , but got the same result , any other ideas , all ideas welcome . I can't define what an 8650 is, not with a small search. I have no idea why you removed it. If it's the processor, then nothing will happen. If it's an I/O chip then something won't happen and something will fail, if there's a good check. You were talking about a ROM failure, and I'd have thought you'd have looked for an enable lead for a ROM. If you were looking for that, then you might want to look to see how ROM chips work, paying attention particularly to the OE (output enable) and CE (chip enable) lines. They aren't the same. CE turns on the whole chip, or turns it off. Some chips have only that. OE is an output enable. If that's all there is, it's functionally equivalent. You seemed to want to take a ROM off line to be able to debug something. The way to do that is to disable the chip. Tying only one line high (typically) is the way to do it. Harvey On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 10:24 AM, Glen Hoag<hoag@...> wrote: There are two processor variants on several HP instruments of this era. Early models were based on the Fairchild F8 (3850). HP had to redesign the CPU and HPIB boards when the F8 family went out of production. Later instruments used the 6809.
KO4BB has the ROM images for the early processor board, but not the 6809 version.
On Feb 10, 2019, at 09:02, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 05:29:43 +0000 (UTC), you wrote:
Thanks for the reply , was thinking of something? like you mentioned,? the only problem is i do not know what pin i have to remove.? I am also going to use the scope to probe around and see if i can make some? progress,? again all help would be great . CE or OE pin (CE is the whole chip, OE just disables outputs,
nomenclature varies).? There ought to be a decoder hung off the top
address lines in the processor, trace a wire from there back to the
prom.
Either line would do, they are most often active low.? Some chips have
both active low and active high, disabling either one would work.
Harvey
On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 4:41 PM, paul swedberg<paulswedb@...> wrote:? Oliver we all like to blame the most difficult and unknown thing. In this case it may be the prom is suffering from memory rot. I have a partially bad one on a 8501 display normalizer. (Just haven't gotten around to replacing it) Thank heavens the HP docs some what explain what the code is.So I would take the following approach as a suggestion. The prom should have a pin to disable it. Disable it. Plug the board in if it still hangs the system then just maybe its not the prom. Thois not to say that maybe an output or address line isn't stuck and hanging the system. Scope will give you that hint.Good luckPaulWB8TSL
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Re: Hp 8903b display issue u
Regarding ¡°8650¡±, are you sure you aren¡¯t looking at the date code on the chip?
I have an 8903B and an 8903E, which is the version without the signal generator. I don¡¯t remember which processors they have; I¡¯ll have to have a look inside.?
What is the part number on your A9 board?
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On Feb 10, 2019, at 17:31, oliver johnson via Groups.Io < nojjamaica@...> wrote: I agree with what you are saying , i see a few of th chips , but without the original programming i am stuck , thats why i wanted to know if anyone has a way to get original information so it can be put on new chips, that or i will need a doner A9 board that works this way eliminate need for chips and the need for programming,? if anyone has a spare A9 card for 8903b or have a way to program new chips with original information,? let me know. On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 4:52 PM, paul swedberg Oliver if it is a prom it may not really matter if you can get the part as it won't have the code. Thats the key. If you have the code you can almost always hack in a more modern device to replace it. No code = big trouble. Good luck Paul WB8TSL
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Re: Hp 8903b display issue u
I agree with what you are saying , i see a few of th chips , but without the original programming i am stuck , thats why i wanted to know if anyone has a way to get original information so it can be put on new chips, that or i will need a doner A9 board that works this way eliminate need for chips and the need for programming,? if anyone has a spare A9 card for 8903b or have a way to program new chips with original information,? let me know.
On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 4:52 PM, paul swedberg <paulswedb@...> wrote: Oliver if it is a prom it may not really matter if you can get the part as it won't have the code. Thats the key. If you have the code you can almost always hack in a more modern device to replace it. No code = big trouble. Good luck Paul WB8TSL
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Reginald,
If your need for a VNA is driven mostly by EMI filters and measurement, then I'd say you don't need a VNA.
A spectrum analyzer (in conjunction with some appropriate probing devices and methods) is most useful for tracking down EMI pathways, and measuring effectiveness of various cleanup techniques. You can't readily design or predict the in-service characteristics of say, a power line filter, with VNA measurements. This kind of filter is not an RF/microwave device with nice, single-ended 50 ohm I/O, and it goes in a non-RF environment.
Ed
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Re: Hp 8903b display issue u
Oliver if it is a prom it may not really matter if you can get the part as it won't have the code. Thats the key. If you have the code you can almost always hack in a more modern device to replace it. No code = big trouble. Good luck Paul WB8TSL
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Hi Peter,
Got it sorted on Windows, I usually use Linux so Python on
Windows was a bit foreign to me. My engineering PC is Windows
because I have a bunch of s/w that only runs on Windows.
Also sorted the print() statements out :)
My E4432B works well under mod except for the 617 error which is
caused with the license fail for a GSM thing which I don't care
about.
I did some sleuthing when trying to switch back didn't quite
work, it was then I found that the second part of the serial
number statement, highlighted in red below...
# Serial number
inst.write("SERV:PRODUCTION:CAL 165,0,40050868.15332;")
is actually the country code part of the serial number. i.e. GB40050868 vs US40050868
so you must ensure that if you're putting your ESG back to normal
that you copy that part of the query from...
print (inst.query("SERV:CAL? 165,0"))
I noticed that the HostID for the unit changes to, which suggests
its a calculated value based on model & serial which no doubt
serves as the basis for calculating the license numbers for the
s/w options.
regards
Tim
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How do the 871x series compare to the 8753 series? I read David Kirkby's page on the 8753 series. It seems as if every model offers options to turn it into almost every other model.
Does anyone know of a summary of the 871x similar to Kirkby's summary of the 8753?
What I'd like is 30 KHz to 3 GHz with test set. Though what I'd like may not be what I get and I might settle for 300 KHz lower limit and just build a dedicated device for testing EMI filters or buy something like a 3577A.
The SMPS noise from my Instek MSO-2204EA is horrible which is not really surprising given it's complete lack of shielding. But that and LED lights have gotten me on an EMI suppression binge.
My eyes are a bit glazed over from 15 pages of eBay listings, But an 8753D with opt 06 and integral S parameter switch for around $2k seems reasonable if I'm patient. I'm going to need patience as I really don't have room unless I relocate my bench.
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WANTED: Analyzer Cover Latches
I'm looking for a pair of the Catch Latches 5021-5483 that go on either side of a 8593E case. The cover latches hook on them. I have a cover from a 8920A that I think should fit but there's nothing on the 8593E case for it to hook on to. TNX, WA6EJO.
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Re: Hp 8903b display issue update
I just looked at my 8903b and the chip is an 8650 , not the 3850 or 6809 . Being that this is the only 40 pin chip on the card by default it has to be it , i did remove chip to see if it was the issue , but got the same result , any other ideas , all ideas welcome .
On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 10:24 AM, Glen Hoag <hoag@...> wrote: There are two processor variants on several HP instruments of this era. Early models were based on the Fairchild F8 (3850). HP had to redesign the CPU and HPIB boards when the F8 family went out of production. Later instruments used the 6809. KO4BB has the ROM images for the early processor board, but not the 6809 version. > On Feb 10, 2019, at 09:02, Harvey White < madyn@...> wrote: > >> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 05:29:43 +0000 (UTC), you wrote: >> >> Thanks for the reply , was thinking of something? like you mentioned,? the only problem is i do not know what pin i have to remove.? I am also going to use the scope to probe around and see if i can make some? progress,? again all help would be great . > > CE or OE pin (CE is the whole chip, OE just disables outputs, > nomenclature varies).? There ought to be a decoder hung off the top > address lines in the processor, trace a wire from there back to the > prom. > > Either line would do, they are most often active low.? Some chips have > both active low and active high, disabling either one would work. > > > Harvey > > >> On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 4:41 PM, paul swedberg< paulswedb@...> wrote:? Oliver we all like to blame the most difficult and unknown thing. In this case it may be the prom is suffering from memory rot. I have a partially bad one on a 8501 display normalizer. (Just haven't gotten around to replacing it) Thank heavens the HP docs some what explain what the code is.So I would take the following approach as a suggestion. The prom should have a pin to disable it. Disable it. Plug the board in if it still hangs the system then just maybe its not the prom. Thois not to say that maybe an output or address line isn't stuck and hanging the system. Scope will give you that hint.Good luckPaulWB8TSL >> >> > > > > >
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Re: Hp 8903b display issue update
There are two processor variants on several HP instruments of this era. Early models were based on the Fairchild F8 (3850). HP had to redesign the CPU and HPIB boards when the F8 family went out of production. Later instruments used the 6809.
KO4BB has the ROM images for the early processor board, but not the 6809 version.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 10, 2019, at 09:02, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 05:29:43 +0000 (UTC), you wrote:
Thanks for the reply , was thinking of something like you mentioned, the only problem is i do not know what pin i have to remove. I am also going to use the scope to probe around and see if i can make some progress, again all help would be great . CE or OE pin (CE is the whole chip, OE just disables outputs,
nomenclature varies). There ought to be a decoder hung off the top
address lines in the processor, trace a wire from there back to the
prom.
Either line would do, they are most often active low. Some chips have
both active low and active high, disabling either one would work.
Harvey
On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 4:41 PM, paul swedberg<paulswedb@...> wrote: Oliver we all like to blame the most difficult and unknown thing. In this case it may be the prom is suffering from memory rot. I have a partially bad one on a 8501 display normalizer. (Just haven't gotten around to replacing it) Thank heavens the HP docs some what explain what the code is.So I would take the following approach as a suggestion. The prom should have a pin to disable it. Disable it. Plug the board in if it still hangs the system then just maybe its not the prom. Thois not to say that maybe an output or address line isn't stuck and hanging the system. Scope will give you that hint.Good luckPaulWB8TSL
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[OT Notepad] Re: HP 4192A GPIB measurements
Sadly, there are far easier ways to maliciously alter the windows
registry, without alerting any users by needing Notepad to appear
on screen.
Yes, some vulnerability "proof of concept" code will launch
Notepad (or more likely the Calculator) as they are generally
benign, but anyone who created intended malicious code that had to
use Notepad to do it's dirty work, didn't do a good job,
thankfully!
I've also seen "Notepad.ini" files used as some crude software
protection flags for some third party software.? Notepad (AFIK)
doesn't have a corresponding .ini file, so you can hide one in the
sea of all the others.
Stay sharp people.
Dave B.
Re: HP 4192A GPIB measurements
From: Michael
A. Terrell
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2019 12:25:13 PST
It's been several years, but I had downloaded a program from a
site that had been infected. When I ran it, it opened Notepad and
added a bunch of lines to the Registry. I had to manually search
for each line, and delete them. Ii haven't allowed Notepad on any
of my Windows computers, since then.
Michael A. Terrell
--
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source software:
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Although I very little over your budget I have a beautiful looking and working 8753ES for sale at $3200?+ shipping.? ?Details and photos off list to conserve bandwidth.?
Pete wa2odo
On Sat, Feb 9, 2019, 8:02 PM Reginald Beardsley via Groups.Io <pulaskite= [email protected] wrote: I've been building up an RF bench (8560A w/ TG, 8648C, 438A, 5386A, Tek 485, LeCroy DDA-125/LC684DLX plus several Chinese DSOs and 3478As and 34401As) with a maximum frequency of about 3 GHz.?
I recently noticed that some of the older HP VNA & S parameter sets with a maximum of 3 GHz are not so expensive as to be out of the question. for example the 8753C.? With a $2-3K US budget, what models should I be looking at?? Which should I avoid?? What are reasonable prices for gear in good condition?
I'm not an EE, so I've never had the privilege of working in a well equipped lab and the model numbers are quite a puzzle.? I'm not aware of a site that lists all the HPAK models of various instruments. by type.
I have a VNWA 3E, but have not yet used it,? because right after I got it, I bought so much gear that all my time was consumed by reorganizing my workspace.? I've collected most of the parts to build an S parameter set for the VNWA, but it doesn't? reach the 2.4 GHz WiFi band and I'm contemplating? creating a private neighborhood network over about a 40 acre area to allow monitoring PoE security cameras without putting them on the internet.
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Re: Hp 8903b display issue update
On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 05:29:43 +0000 (UTC), you wrote: Thanks for the reply , was thinking of something? like you mentioned,? the only problem is i do not know what pin i have to remove.? I am also going to use the scope to probe around and see if i can make some? progress,? again all help would be great . CE or OE pin (CE is the whole chip, OE just disables outputs, nomenclature varies). There ought to be a decoder hung off the top address lines in the processor, trace a wire from there back to the prom. Either line would do, they are most often active low. Some chips have both active low and active high, disabling either one would work. Harvey On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 4:41 PM, paul swedberg<paulswedb@...> wrote: Oliver we all like to blame the most difficult and unknown thing. In this case it may be the prom is suffering from memory rot. I have a partially bad one on a 8501 display normalizer. (Just haven't gotten around to replacing it) Thank heavens the HP docs some what explain what the code is.So I would take the following approach as a suggestion. The prom should have a pin to disable it. Disable it. Plug the board in if it still hangs the system then just maybe its not the prom. Thois not to say that maybe an output or address line isn't stuck and hanging the system. Scope will give you that hint.Good luckPaulWB8TSL
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Re: Hp 8903b display issue u
I will look out for that chip select in the service manual and see if it can do test to chip if possible.?
I am wondering if anyone has any of these chips and if they do where can i get information to place on chips . Are there sources with readily available parts ??? If someone knows please let me know.?
On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 1:43 AM, nigel adams <nigel.adams@...> wrote:
Usually devices like this have the common data and address lines plus somthing like ?CS (chip select), RW (read write), PG (program) and supplies...
I dont know this specific device in this instrument but i suspect CS would be the one to hold the chip in a given state.
Hope it helps..
Sent from Samsung by banging a nail into a piece of wood.
-------- Original message --------
From: "oliver johnson via Groups.Io"
Date:10/02/2019 05:29 (GMT+00:00)
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Hp 8903b display issue update
Thanks for the reply , was thinking of something? like you mentioned,? the only problem is i do not know what pin i have to remove.? I am also going to use the scope to probe around and see if i can make some? progress,? again all help would be great .
On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 4:41 PM, paul swedberg
<paulswedb@...> wrote:
Oliver we all like to blame the most difficult and unknown thing. In this case it may be the prom is suffering from memory rot. I have a partially bad one on a 8501 display normalizer.
(Just haven't gotten around to replacing it) Thank heavens the HP docs some what explain what the code is.
So I would take the following approach as a suggestion. The prom should have a pin to disable it. Disable it. Plug the board in if it still hangs the system then just maybe its not
the prom. Thois not to say that maybe an output or address line isn't stuck and hanging the system. Scope will give you that hint.
Good luck
Paul
WB8TSL
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Re: HP 859X series Ref Out to Reference in Jumper for recently acquired analyzer
I use Seamonkey to download the messages that I don't delete from Webmail, but thee are other problems even accessing the Earthlink mail servers. It reminds me of the way they let their Usenet server farm die a slow death before outsourcing it.
Michael A. Terrell
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-----Original Message----- From: Mark Wendt <wendt.mark@...>
Just use an email client like Thunderbird rather than relying on their
web portal for your email.? That way you can keep your current email
address.? Set up Thunderbird for either POP, RPOP or IMAP, whichever
they allow.
Mark
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Steve J. Noll, WA6EJO
Michael A. Terrell